I love it. David keeps the answers coming for all the bullshit right-wing talking points.

CORN & ISAKOFF on Hardball 9/13/06 (MSNBC Video)

David Corn on The Selling of the Iraq War (link)
Pajamas Media Interview

Mr. David Corn,

I said it before, I have not believed anything that Novak says or writes. He is simply incredible.

If Bob wanted to "come clean" he could have long ago. I also do not put much stock in Armitage either. These are the same slugs they have always been. No distance from Bush will ever make me think they are credible.

Thanks for all of your work

Kirk

"Maybe it's time for all leakers to come clean and tell what happened."

That would be sweet!

I wager Bunnypants was hip deep in it but these are professional liars. I am astounded that you are able to get to the core of so many lies and you somehow get a few on the record that expose more lies.

capt

Novak neglects to note that Karl Rove was the source he used to confirm the leak he had received from Armitage--and that Rove also leaked classified information on Valerie Wilson to Matt Cooper of Time magazine before the leak appeared in Novak's column. Nor does Novak mention that Scooter Libby leaked information on Valerie Wilson to Judith Miller of The New York Times weeks before Novak entered Armitage's office--and also confirmed Rove's leak to Cooper. (A source close to Rove is quoted in Hubris saying that Rove "probably" learned about Valerie Wilson from Libby.)

Anybody want to debate these facts?

Mr. Corn, those ads are creeping me out, they make you sound like a neocon mouth piece. Is the money really worth it? Who are the people who want to kill us? Arabs? Do you really want to perpetuate that lie?

David,
Congratulations to you and Michael Isikoff on creating this stir.
Alas, I'm tired. Been off the blogs for awhile, and feels like I'm not up to it yet.
Unfortunately, I am probably not the only one feeling weary. Weary and underwhelmed. Maybe it's the mid-term dulldrums. My fear is that your fine work is meaningless unless indictments follow.

Sorry.

MUCH later,
th

meanwhile the war on arabs continues - complete with DU and the inevitable results:
DEATH MADE IN AMERICA
this is despicable. this is unpardonable. this is unconscionable.
this is being done in the name of "democracy".
what the fuck. bushco's 9/11 was the catalyst for the war on terror including DU and some of you evil dwarf motherfuckers have the gall to pretend that bushco are the good guys. i would so pinch your evil dwarf enabling heads.

dave, get a life. start talking about the truth of 9-11. start talking about wtc7. great book...but now get on with the REAL story. scott

"Rove also leaked classified information on Valerie Wilson to Matt Cooper of Time magazine before the leak appeared in Novak's column. Nor does Novak mention that Scooter Libby leaked information on Valerie Wilson to Judith Miller of The New York Times weeks before Novak entered Armitage's office--and also confirmed Rove's leak to Cooper"

With all of the leaking going on, maybe your prophecy will finally come true..."ROVE TO BE INDITED TOMORROW"....not holding my breath any more, been dead for months!

Still no corroboration for that .98 cent novel, eh?

I am always here!

Bring it or admit you post spew.

capt

You are confused (as always)

"ROVE TO BE INDITED TOMORROW"

Was on truthout.org not the Corn blog.

Unless you can make good on anything you post - you are the liar. So back it up? Show us where Corn ever posted, printed or even said such a thing.

You can add that to your impossible to do list just like the "military that cannot come forward because they are still in the military" BS.

Anytime you come up with it - post it.

Until then you have less than zero credibility with me. You just post stupid unsupport claims and spew lies and BS.

capt

Karl Rove Indicted on Charges of Perjury, Lying to Investigators

By Jason Leopold
t r u t h o u t | Report

Saturday 13 May 2006

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald spent more than half a day Friday at the offices of Patton Boggs, the law firm representing Karl Rove.

During the course of that meeting, Fitzgerald served attorneys for former Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove with an indictment charging the embattled White House official with perjury and lying to investigators related to his role in the CIA leak case, and instructed one of the attorneys to tell Rove that he has 24 business hours to get his affairs in order, high level sources with direct knowledge of the meeting said Saturday morning.

Robert Luskin, Rove's attorney, did not return a call for comment. Sources said Fitzgerald was in Washington, DC, Friday and met with Luskin for about 15 hours to go over the charges against Rove, which include perjury and lying to investigators about how and when Rove discovered that Valerie Plame Wilson was a covert CIA operative and whether he shared that information with reporters, sources with direct knowledge of the meeting said.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

There you go.

You knuckle-heads just cannot back up anything you ever post. Why is that? Do you even care one iota about your credibility? Why not just stick to the facts - I know beliefs are easy but what you believe is not factual.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. ~ John Adams (1735 - 1826), 'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials,' December 1770

capt

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." ~ Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963), "Proper Studies", 1927

"Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong." ~ Dr. Thomas Fuller (1654 - 1734), Gnomologia, 1732

"Facts are facts and will not disappear on account of your likes." ~ Jawaharlal Nehru (1889 - 1964)

http://www.dawn.com/2006/09/13/top3.htm

Taliban bigger threat now than Al Qaeda: Militants brought in by West: Musharraf

BRUSSELS, Sept 12: President Pervez Musharraf has warned that Taliban have overtaken Al Qaeda as the region’s biggest threat to security. The Taliban were more dangerous because they had roots as a social movement and not simply an ideology, the president told the European Parliament’s foreign affairs committee here on Tuesday.

“The centre of gravity of terrorism has shifted from Al Qaeda to Taliban,” he said.

“It is a new element that has emerged, a more dangerous element because it has roots in the people. Al Qaeda did not have roots in the people,” he said.

President Musharraf said Taliban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar was leading the insurgency in Afghanistan. The president said the Taliban leader was hiding in Afghanistan and not Pakistan, although he acknowledged that Al Qaeda chief Osama bin laden might be in his country.

“Mullah Omar has never visited Pakistan since 1995 ... why would he be in Pakistan? He is certainly in southern Afghanistan,” the president said.

“The battle, if it is to be won, has to address the centre of gravity of the force, and the centre of gravity lies in Mullah Omar and his command echelon,” he said.

“The Talibanisation of Pakistan goes against the Pakistani national ethos. We reject that. We need to make it very clear we have to fight militant Taliban,” he said.

Gen Musharraf said a deal reached last week between militants and tribal leaders in Waziristan was an important step in cutting off recruits to the Taliban.

He said the deal included simultaneous military, political, administrative and reconstruction efforts, instead of the simple use of force alone.

“Military only buys time and provides an opening for a political solution. Military will never give you the ultimate solution. The military is never the ultimate answer,” he said. “I personally feel it is the time for brains rather than brawn,” he said.

He said the remnants of Al Qaeda “are now on the run and we are still attacking them.”

The president blamed the West for breeding terrorism in Pakistan by bringing in thousands of mujahideen to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and then leaving Islamabad alone a decade later to face the armed warriors.

He said Pakistan was not the intolerant, extremist country often portrayed by the West, and terrorism and extremism were not inherent to Pakistani society.

“Whatever extremism or terrorism is in Pakistan is direct fallout of the 26 years of warfare and militancy around us. It gets back to 1979 when the West, the United States and Pakistan waged a war against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan,” he said.

“We launched a Jihad, brought in mujahideen from all over the Muslim world, the US and the West and us together. We armed the Taliban and sent them in, we did it together. In 1989 everyone left Pakistan with 30,000 armed mujahideen who were there, and the Taliban who were there,” he said, adding that Pakistan “paid a big price for being part of the coalition that fought the Soviet Union”.—Agencies
--------------------------------------------------
Why is it that Muslim leaders like Musharraf, believe there is a threat from "Al Qaeda" and "Osama bin laden", but the nutty left find them so hard to believe in?

there is a concerted effort by corporate big-wigs and western elites to manage public perceptions through an increasingly sophisticated disinformation campaign. (Rumsfeld appears to be way out front of his colleagues in this regard by targeting the internet, chat rooms, blogs, liberal journalists, and Arab media)

The central part of the present campaign is now, and will continue to be, the war on terror, that threadbare PR scam which justifies America’s global resource war. 9-11 is the unifying myth that animates the war on terror and without that point of reference the whole project would quickly unravel.

Go ahead, I am going to get some sleep. I will check back for anything you can find to back up anything you post in the morning.

Here is a hint, the only poster that has ever posted "ROVE TO BE INDITED TOMORROW" on the Corn blog was - Tre Beloc - and you accused David of being a liar in THAT post too.

Good luck on your search!

capt

Jason Leopold posted the article that said Fitzgerald had a sealed indictment for Karl Rove.

Prosecutions that involve criminal conspiracy - coordinated efforts which run afoul of the law - follow a well formed pattern. First, nail an underling or two. Squeeze them hard and flip 'em for the big fish. Libby is taking the bullet. Rove on the other hand is spilling his guts 'cuase there ain't no loyalty there for Cheney. SING IT LOUD! Rove's a rat.

I read yesterday the trial date is set for January 16. Merry Fitzmas everyone!

Who cares what Pervez the perverse thinks. I think you cannot back up your posts?

Why try to change the subject?

Come on, man up - back up your post with a fact or two. Where has David Corn ever posted "ROVE TO BE INDICTED TOMORROW"?

Link me to some corroboration for the "military" that will back your $0.98 novel from 2002?

Or are you just playing games?

capt

wow talibans gonna gitcha!
aren't you the individual who assured us that we are in danger of being converted to islam at the point of a knife? maybe you should encourage your child to enlist and he/she can promote some good old fashioned democracy at the tip of a gun. i heard that there's plenty of DU incentive to go around.

16 Kathleen (and everyone else),
Please limit your comments in length. Do not post a 3000-word article here. It disturbs the flow. Feel free to post an excerpt and to link.

Posted by: David Corn at September 12, 2006 11:08 PM

11 "....not holding my breath any more, been [brain] dead for months!

Posted by: Tre Beloc at September 14, 2006 12:50 AM

"January 16"

Libby will be pardoned before the trial ever starts. The neocons will not let a trial expose the pack of lies and the details of the liars.

What good is the power to pardon if you cannot keep the lies secret.

He will be pardoned to "protect national security" and in homage of Libby's "years of service".

Just like GHWB pardoned Casper Wienberger and the group of five. After the midterms BU__SH__ will be off the hook. Their evil week-at-a-glance is full of insanity and every moment of everyday is going to be more evil and twisted than we can imagine.

(of course it is pure conjecture on my part)

I do hope I am wrong, 100% wrong.

capt

Bush and the 'Third Awakening'

By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, September 13, 2006; 1:22 PM

Peter Baker of The Washington Post spots a fascinating story amid the published excerpts from a closed-door session President Bush held with conservative journalists yesterday. The excerpts were published on the National Review's blog .

Baker writes: "President Bush said yesterday that he senses a 'Third Awakening' of religious devotion in the United States that has coincided with the nation's struggle with international terrorists, a war that he depicted as 'a confrontation between good and evil.'

"Bush told a group of conservative journalists that he notices more open expressions of faith among people he meets during his travels, and he suggested that might signal a broader revival similar to other religious movements in history. Bush noted that some of Abraham Lincoln's strongest supporters were religious people 'who saw life in terms of good and evil' and who believed that slavery was evil. Many of his own supporters, he said, see the current conflict in similar terms. . . .

"Bush has been careful discussing the battle with terrorists in religious terms since he had to apologize for using the word 'crusade' in 2001. He often stresses that the war is not against Islam but against those who corrupt it. In his comments yesterday, aides said Bush was not casting the war as a religious struggle but was describing American cultural changes in a time of war."

I would not be surprised if Libby ends up with a "Medal of Freedom" - that makes sense in this misadministration - no success like abject failure no lie is big enough not to be rewarded.

capt

Bush also injected a religious perspective into his address to the nation on Monday, the fifth anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, when he said: "The attacks were meant to bring us to our knees, and they did, but not in the way the terrorists intended. Americans united in prayer."

Bush often calls attention to all the people who he meets who say they are praying for him, and that's how the subject apparently came up yesterday. As Rich Lowry and Kate O'Beirne blogged for the National Review: "He jokingly noted, 'Now maybe the only people who pray in America come to my events.'"

But Bush's disquisition about a "Third Awakening" is highly suggestive, and potentially of no small political significance.

National Review senior editor Jeffrey Hart touched on the issue of revivalism in an op-ed for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette last year. He wrote that Bush "has brought religion into politics in a way unknown to recent memory. And he has owed both of his electoral victories to his Evangelical Christian base. This indispensable base has profoundly affected his policies, foreign and domestic.

"The Bush presidency often is called conservative. That is a mistake. It is populist and radical, and its principal energies have roots in American history, and these roots are not conservative."

I would not be surprised if Libby ends up with a "Medal of Freedom"

Like "Slam-Dunk" Tenet? Can you believe he said that? How can the director of the CIA be so ignorant about the content of the NIE he reports directly to the president in person DAILY?

It's Official - VA Says Gulf War Syndrome Doesn't Exist!

depleted uranium is safe to eat and drink!
we are considering making tasty condiments out of it!
~rumsfeld

Radical, neo-liberal, Trotskyite, eastern european. Nothing conservative in this WH.

The fools that voted for the slug are either blind, so full of hatred for liberals, or partisan to the point of putting party before the country and Bunnypants before the constitution.

capt

"Here is a hint, the only poster that has ever posted "ROVE TO BE INDITED TOMORROW" on the Corn blog was - Tre Beloc - and you accused David of being a liar in THAT post too"- capt

You are right...Im sure that I just imagined that there was a Headline at this post saying that ROVE was going to be indited....I'm sure it was one of my "FITZMAS" Dreams that I had...

21-maybe you should encourage your child to enlist and he/she can promote some good old

ON 9/11/2006 had to teach my 5year old what happened when he was an infant, and yes i did warn him that he may be called to fight for is freedom at sometime in the future..thanks for asking!

Hart wrote that the "Third Awakening of Evangelicalism believes all sorts of bizarre things, such as the imminent end of the world, the second coming of Christ, the sudden elevation of the just to heaven and the final struggle of Good versus Evil in Jerusalem: Armageddon. We thus have the immense popularity of the Left Behind series of novels by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins."

Concentrating mostly on the public health-related effects of Bush's Evangelicalism, Hart wrote that it "has real and often dangerous effects on the world in which the rest of us . . . live."

More recently, journalists struggling to understand Bush's nearly absolute deference to Israel in the Lebanese conflict wondered if Bush's religious beliefs were a factor. See my August 4 column, What's the Motivation? , which includes the strange tale of the visit to a White House Bible study meeting by a writer of Christian apocalpytic fiction.

On Iran

In his column, Lowry also writes that it appears Bush is gearing up to attack Iran next.

"[H]is language suggests that the Robert Kagan thesis that the seemingly interminable Iran diplomacy is the necessary run-up to a strike on Iran has something to it. Bush says, 'It is very important for the United States to try all diplomatic means.' That's what we did in Iraq: 'I'm often asked what's the difference between Iran and Iraq. We tried all diplomatic means in Iraq.' Iran, he seems to imply, might eventually prove impervious to diplomacy, but that's something we have to find out. He says, of members of the military, 'I owe it to their loved ones and I owe it to this country to see if we can't achieve [diplomatically] the objectives which, in Iran's case, the short-term objective is no nuclear weapon. So that's what you're seeing happen.'"

A bill radically redefining and expanding the government's ability to eavesdrop and search the houses of U.S. citizens without court approval passed a key Senate committee Wednesday, and may be voted on by the full Senate as early as next week.

Continued here:
wired.com/news/technology/0,71778-0.html?tw=wn_index_1

spy on this!

Of course I looked BEFORE I spoke, you should try it. Calling people liars and such is discourteous if you cannot back up such an insult with something factual.

See, I called you a liar and I was right and correct to do so because I check the facts.

Now about that corroboration for the piece of Qaqaa $.98 novel or are you just shooting blanks?

"Discourtesy does not spring merely from one bad quality, but from several--from foolish vanity, from ignorance of what is due to others, from indolence, from stupidity, from distraction of thought, from contempt of others, from jealousy." ~ Jean de la Bruyere (1645 - 1696)

I am sure David will welcome an apology because you got him confused with Jason Leopold?

Or do you lack the self-respect to be right about just this one thing?

capt

Here is a little assistence:

site:www.davidcorn.com ROVE TO BE INDITED TOMORROW

There are only 9 hits - the only ones that match those exact words are posts from Tre Beloc.

Those are facts, your imagination is spinning just like your pathetic spew.

"Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality." ~ Jules de Gaultier

capt

DEN, I linked your 'dust analysis' article on the other site and asked if they had seen it. One replied that yes, he had seen it and wanted to know what questions in particluar I had. That was 3 pages ago and I'm still reading, but I posted again to put in more detail what my questions were. In the meantime, right under that guys post, was this one by the real chemist. Understand, he might see my detailed questions in a later post and give us more info. K, he starts out his post with an answer to a conpiracy nut...

RWH:

As was pointed out recently by Arthur, I am a chemist by trade.

(Yes the odd chemist goes on a physics site!)

I analysed everything from coal flyash to uranium mine tailings, to tritium in heavy water to deposits found inside nuclear reactors for 25 years. So when you say:

"Samples of metal with thermite signatures and thermite residue have been recovered and analyzed."

All I can say is

SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

Alan:

Yes, I am familiar with the article by Lioy et al. on the WTC dust. It's very good, excellent work.

It shows, among other things, that the WTC dust was mainly gypsum and mineral insulation ("rock wool", etc), with less than 40 % by weight concrete.

It also shows that there were plenty of particles in the WTC dust that were larger than 100 microns, so "the towers were pulverized to 60 micron dust" is, as with so many 9-11 conspiracy theories,

SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

NF

The Neoconservatives have created a Department of Anti-Semitism whose intended goal is to criminalize any strong critics of the racist, apartheid state of Israel, its Zionist regime and its leaders.

Capt-
Good going, what about the posts in 2005, around the time of the FITZMAS stories....that was when you nutters were all excited about Rove being indited.

why don't you instead ask your pals where the upper 5/8 of wtc2 has disappeared to: poof!?
and then maybe ask them why the massive steel columns provided no resistance against the ones above which consisted of powder suspended in the air? did each successively lower floor simply panic at the thought of all that powder and leap out of the way?
alan, the entirety of the towers' demise boils down to that.

#40,

No I checked, I am sure David will understand that you just got confused as to the source and he is a gentleman so he will likely be gracious with regard to your apology.

David has never posted, spoken or even indicated what you posted when you called him a liar and even added that David Corn should be indicted for lying.

That is just not cool, no reason to just make things up and insult others especially the owner of the blog.

I am sure you cannot back the $.98 novel either. Your posts are just not fact based. I would say it is disappointing but I never had any expectation of facts coming from a troll. *sigh*

I try to help, I try to encourage facts, I try to show you how to find facts but alas even if you wanted to learn I doubt I could be of more assistance.

Maybe I am wrong, maybe you can find a post with anything that supports your claims. You will have to find it for me because I have looked and not found any.

capt

How petty can you get?

Nutters? Because you have a different opinion? You come the the HUBRIS and "Bush Lies" blog and bellyache that the regulars are "nutters" - that indicates a lack of self-respect on your part.

Tragic as you are factless.

You are as wrong as a song, just admit your error, you will be better for doing so.

"Character - the willingness to accept responsibility for one's own life - is the source from which self respect springs." ~ Joan Didion (1934 - ), "Slouching Towards Bethlehem"

Even neocons claim to have respect, why should you be an exception?

capt

The least you could do is check your facts before making wild and erroneous accusations and vile insults.

That way you can point to whatever facts you have that support your twisted view.

That is why I link to an article or webpage that supports what I am posting about at the time. Nobody can prove you wrong if you are right.

capt

if the NIST engineers weren't controlled by a gang of govt shill liars they would step up to the plate alongside prof. judy wood who claims that their explanation of the towers' demise is not physically possible and explain themselves properly. she has invited them to do so but they, being controlled by a gang of govt shill liars have declined her offer to do so. that alone should give everyone pause to doubt the official story about how the towers met their unfortunate end.

why don't you instead ask your pals where the upper 5/8 of wtc2 has disappeared to: poof!?

I don't need to,that's why. It was your thermite ferries that did it. Pink elephants and thermite ferries... they were having a party over at your house and got bored.
Silly paranoid boi.

To: David Corn

I would like to take this opportunity to sincerely apologize for calling you a liar. I also admit that you never posted that "Rove to be indicted". Although I did believe that you made those statements, I can not prove that you did, nor can I find any evidence to the contrary. I WAS WRONG and you did not deserve the treatment at I gave you. I appreciate the opportunity that you give all to express their opinions, and crazy rants, like I did. I’m sure that you have not lost any sleep over this crazy persons rant, but I am sorry that I misrepresented your words and smeared you character. I will be more careful about what I post and will make sure that I have my facts strait before I make a post. I will also abstain from calling those who disagree with me CORN-NUTTERS and CORN-HOLES.

Humbly yours,
Bert Cole
AKA
Tre Beloc

Death Toll Soars in Baghdad

As the day's body count nears 100, Democrats accuse Bush of committing to an unwinnable war and straining the Army.

BAGHDAD On a day in which nearly 100 bodies attested to Iraq's unbridled violence, Democrats stepped up their response to President Bush's policies, with former national security advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski calling the war "unwinnable."

Iraqi officials announced they had found the bodies of 60 men, some of whom had been shot in the head after being tortured, over the previous 24 hours. They said there was no single massacre or mass execution. Rather, the slaughter in two Baghdad neighborhoods was probably the result of multiple roving assassination teams, they said.

In addition to the apparent executions, a pair of car bombs and other violence took at least 35 lives and left scores injured Wednesday, officials said. U.S. authorities reported the deaths of two more American soldiers, one killed by a roadside bomb south of Baghdad and the other killed in action in Al Anbar province, the hotbed of the Sunni Arab insurgency in western Iraq.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Nobody can "win" an occupation. We are not at war. The war ended the day Bremmer disbanded their Iraq military. We have bee an occupying force since. We claim to be helping develop an Iraqi armed forces. We are not "at war" with the armed forces we are helping. That would be arming and helping to develop our enemy.

All occupations fail. No matter when we leave the insurgents will be able to claim it is their victory because all they were fighting for was to get the occupiers to leave.

The only thing that is keeping us in Iraq is Bush's determination to prove he is faultless. To leave Iraq would be the same as admitting a mistake. Megalomaniacs are not able to admit any mistake. They do not have the balance of good mental health to admit anything bad about themselves.

capt

Tre Beloc,

That is an unexpected but welcome post.

capt

Silly paranoid boi.
ha ha - NIST lied because they are govt shills.

44-44
The least you could do is check your facts before making wild and erroneous accusations and vile insults.

That way you can point to whatever facts you have that support your twisted view.

That is why I link to an article or webpage that supports what I am posting about at the time. Nobody can prove you wrong if you are right.

capt

Dear capt,

FYI- I do check my facts and do link articles to back up my posts, aside from my remarks on the "ROVE to BE INDITED" line.

While I do admit that I have made "wild and erroneous accusations and vile insults.” don’t pretend that is only I, and Conservatives, who do this! I do not excuse myself for doing this just because everyone else does, and I can only control what I post, but since you got me in line, what about the "wild and erroneous accusations and vile insults" that happen daily toward Bush, Rove, and anyone else who does not follow the conspiracy theories on the 9/11 attacks? When should I expect you to speak out and reprimand those people? What about the "happy" people who have insulted my mother?
Her honor is just as important as those of David Corn! I will be watching for the equal outrage toward "wild and erroneous accusations and vile insults" on the left and right.

Speak to the specific posters. To group everybody into one bucket is not even interesting let alone fair. Some people will posts outrageous things as this is an open blog.

I was about to tell you that one post with such humility put you light years ahead of most all of the others. Ahead of some of the regulars.

I do not see how the next post demeans your most humble post before. Kudos

I will leave it at that.

capt

49
Tre Beloc,
That is an unexpected but welcome post.

Capt
posted by: capt at September 14, 2006 04:18 AM

It is only unexpected because you dont know me. When i come to this site, as I have stated before, I come to educate and be educated.
RE:42-
I am sure you cannot back the $.98 novel either. Your posts are just not fact based. I would say it is disappointing but I never had any expectation of facts coming from a troll. *sigh*

I can and i did back what you called the .98 novel, if you remember I backed it up with upper level Clinton administartion officials, Like Dick Morris and BILL CLINTON!

Dude?

The post you made said other military (specifically those carrying the football) would corroborate but were still in the military.

Dick Morris is autistic and not a veteran.

You cannot substitute corroborators when it was the author of the .98 cent novel made a specific claim.

To be fact based the words have to mean what are written to mean, not what you think is equivalent or even better.

It was not your claim, it was the authors. And you have to admit it is clear Morris is not the corroboration the author mentioned. Not your fault and not up to you to substitute.

The author did not have to put that claim to print and I would have an easier time believing him if he had not included any qualifier.

To say something like "really and their are others that can't tell you they agree but they do" is the same BS a little kid offers up as proof they are telling the truth.

Unless you can make good on that - the military that could not speak to the issue because they were still in the military you are not satisfying the claims of that author.

I was not going to bring it up further as I was impressed with your candor and honesty in the post above. You should have just left it at that.

capt

"In the book "Behind the Oval Office" Morris relates he may have had some autistic tendencies as a child, such as assortive behavior and a desire to socialize with adults."

He is still more than a little odd, don't you think?

He grew up to have LYING tendencies as an adult. A pathetic turncoat at that!

I would not believe anything the failed pollster ever says because he has no credibility.

capt

See this is how you back things up.

Dick Morris

Dick Morris (born November 28, 1948 in New York City) is an American political author, newspaper columnist, and commentator who was once a successful pollster, political campaign consultant, and general political consultant.

Morris is best known for managing Bill Clinton's successful 1996 bid for re-election to the office of President of the United States. His tenure on that campaign was cut short two months before the election, when it was revealed that he had had an extramarital affair with a prostitute (named Sherry Rowlands) and allowed her to listen in on conversations with the President. Following the scandal, Morris turned his focus to media commentary. He now writes a weekly column for the New York Post (the column is widely carried nationwide) and appears regularly on the Fox News Channel.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Not a stellar anything. He is not credible. He has an ax to grind and would likely corroborate anything any hack author might write.

Not in the military, never has been. About as credible as Ann Coulter or Rush.

capt

54-The post you made said other military (specifically those carrying the football) would corroborate but were still in the military

THE AUTHOR OF THE BOOK CLAIMED THAT OTHER MILITARY WOULD CORROBORATE HIS BOOK, NOT ME....LOOK THAT UP! ALL I DID IS POINT TO WHAT DICK MORRIS AND BILL CLINTON HAD TO SAY, THAT ACTUALY CORRABORATE WHAT THE AUTHOR HAD TO SAY. DOES NOT BILL CLINTON HIMSELF CORROBORATE THE STATEMENTS OF BUZZ PATERSON. IF DICK MORRIS HAS LYING TENDENCIS IS THE ONLY REASON YOU DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH CLINTON IS THAT IS IS NOT A "TURN COAT"?

What would you think of somebody that let their prostitute girlfriend listen in on a private conversation with Bush?

Be objective. Put the shoe on the other foot.

Now consider Morris was fired by Bubba for having a prostitue listen in on his private conversations with the president. Morris was probably pissed because he knew Bubba was messing around too. I am sure Morris thinks he was persecuted. Who likes to be fired especially when they were so close to the power center.

There is no corroboration because the author wanted to sell his book and included an admission that he did not have corroboration. I would not have questioned the corroboration if the author did not write about it. That was his whoop's moment.

That is unless you can find those military folks.

Maybe they are out there? I have not been able to find them (again I always look before I say it) so I leave it up to you to find them and update me when you do.

capt

56- DEFLECT- DISTRACT- DISTORT...

SO DICK MORRIS NEVER SAID A THING THAT IS TRUE?

JUST BECAUSE HE "he had had an extramarital affair with a prostitute (named Sherry Rowlands)" HE IS NOT CREDITABLE, IN THAT CASE HOW CREDITABLE IS CLINTON AND ALL OF HIS EXTRAMARITAL AFFAIRS? IF DICK MORRIS STEPED DOWN BECAUES HE WAS CAUGHT IN AN EXTRAMARIATL AFFAIR SHOULD NOT CLINTON HAVE DONE THE SAME THING? IS NOT THE PRESIDENT HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD THAT ONE OF HIS EMPLOYEES? I WONDER WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION MONICA LEW HEARD AS SHE WAS SERVICING MR CLINTON IN THE OVAL OFFICE. THIS IS THE TYPE OF HYPROCRACY THAT MADE ME LEAVE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!

All caps does not make a more cogent or better point.

There is not reason for that. If you read #54 I posted that it was the authors claim not yours. I am not confused.

The authors claim does not have Bill Clinton as corroboration because once more you have a non-military person.

It was a weak thing to put to print. Like I said the authors whoop's moment (not yours). That is why the book is not worth the paper it is written on. It is a "hit" piece intended to smear president Clinton.

capt

Real journalists and authors are more careful with their sources and they will provide the corroboration or they do not put it to print.

Read HUBRIS: The Inside Story of Spin, Scandal, and the Selling of the Iraq War and you will not find "someone in the future" will corroborate because David and Mike do their homework and they say who said what and when.

capt

#59,

You got the point I was making, Morris would have been pissed. That is why I do not believe him. I know I would be pissed too.

I only included those facts to show Morris has an ax to grind with Bubba. Not that the affair makes him a liar.

You really need to read for comprehension.

capt

60-All caps does not make a more cogent or better point.

NO BUT IT MAKES WHAT I HAVE TO SAY CLEAR FROM THE STATEMNTS OF OTHERS.

60-The authors claim does not have Bill Clinton as corroboration because once more you have a non-military person.

SO THAT THE FACT THAT CLINTON CORROBORATS THE STORY MEANS NOTHING TO YOU, AND TENCHNALY THE "COMMANDER IN CHIEF" IS THE HEAD OF THE MILITARY....

62-You got the point I was making, Morris would have been pissed. That is why I do not believe him.

IM SURE MORRIS WAS PISSED TOO, HE SITS BACK WATCHING BILLY CLINTON GET ALL OF THE TRIM THAT A ROCK STAR WOULD, AND THEN HE GETS FIRED FOR THE SAME THING?... YOU STILL DIDNT ANSWER MY QUESTION, WHAT DID MONICA LEW HEAR BILLY CLINTON SAY ON THE PHONE WHILE SHE WAS SMOKING THE CIGAR? AND SHOULD THE PRESIDENT BE HELD TO A HIGHER ACCOUNTING THAN A PRESIDENTAL AID?

BY THE WAY I READ QUITE WELL, THANK YOU CAPT

62-I only included those facts to show Morris has an ax to grind with Bubba

I WOULD TAKE THOSE SAME FACTS AND CONCLUED THAT DICK MORRIS WAS AN ADVISOR TO CLINTON FOR 20 YEARS AND WHEN HE NO LONGER HAD TO COVER HIS PASTY WHITE AZZ...SPILLED THE BEANS, AND HE IS MORE CREDITABLE THAT CLINTON, TO ME, BECAUSE I NEVER SAW MORRIS LIE ON THE WITNESS STAND

History ignored

[..]

It's already forgotten, but the aerial bombing campaign and proxy Northern Alliance troops (a collection of warlords and thugs much despised by most Afghans) didn't ever defeat the Taliban. Instead, the Taliban made a tactical decision to retreat to the mountains in advance of oncoming winter –≠ a move that, as most Afghans knew but most Americans didn't, also allowed the bombing to stop before winter's onset and aid convoys to reach the U.N.-estimated seven million rural Afghans at risk of starvation that winter. Washington was fully prepared to let them all starve; the Taliban weren't. Afghans remember that.

That was the Taliban's first tactical "victory" in what they always considered to be a long war, just as expelling the Soviets –≠ a campaign many Taliban fighters are veterans of -–†was also protracted. But in a country continuously civilized (and frequently overrun by invaders) for thousands of years, a decade of warfare to expel a foreign occupier is but a moment in time. Native fighters in both Afghanistan and Iraq know this; Washington, with its eye ever on polling and the next election cycle, doesn't.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

If they would just studied a little history.

UGH

capt

You have not convinced me of anything that would give any credibility to the author or the book you posted from.

You keep raving about Clinton corroborating the author. That is not the point and as clever a distraction that can make for you it does not detract from the point.

The point I have been making is that the clip you posted is bunk, pure hokum, BS, pure fiction from a book that is a hit piece not reference or literature.

Nothing Clinton says will change that.

Now if you want to talk about what Clinton has said about ANYTHING - that is a horse of a different color and has nothing to do with the authors false claims about others in the military that will corroborate that authors fantasies.

The subject at hand was about the clip you posted and whether it is credible, it is not. Morris is not credible and I can make a case for Clinton being not credible.

That still will not make what the $0.98 cent novel or what you posted from it credible. You like to say stuff like distract? Why are you trying to change the subject.

As I have posted I would not have brought it up again, you should just let it go.

That is unless you can find where that author makes good on what you posted of his writing.

Do not expect another response if you need all caps. There is no reason to yell. You are going to wake someone up.

capt

65 -That is unless you can find where that author makes good on what you posted of his writing.

BILL CLINTON WAS THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THE ARM FORCES...BY DEFALT A MEMBER OF THE MILITARY!

http://www.newsmax.com/scripts/showinside.pl?a=2002/2/15/145708&s=lh

"A former military aide to President Clinton who claims he witnessed several missed opportunities to capture or kill Osama bin Laden"

http://www.newsmax.com/scripts/showinside.pl?a=2002/2/15/145708&s=lh

Clinton also defended his administration against charges that it refused to accept Sudan's offer to turn bin Laden over to the U.S. six years ago.
"In the period when the Sudanese wanted America to start dealing with them again, they released [bin Laden]. At the time, 1996, he had committed no crime against America, so I did not bring him here because we had no basis on which to hold him - though we knew he wanted to commit crimes against America.

JUST BECAUSE IT IS AN "ATTCK PIECE" DOES NOT MEAN THAT IS NOT A TRUE STORY! YOU IGNORE THAT CLINTON WAS COMMANDER IN CHIEF, AND YOU IGNORE HIS OWN WORDS TO KEEP YOUR COZY LITTLE REALITY GOING...CLINTON CAN DO NO WRONG! THE SUBJECT IS NOT CHANGED, THE BOOK IS TRUE BY CLINTONS OWN ADMISSION..DO YOU THINK THAT IF CLINTON WAS PRESIDENT NOW HE WOULD HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE THAT OSAMA HAS " committed .. (A) crime against America", OR DO YOU THINK THAT IT WAS BUSH WHO COMMITED ALL THE CRIMES?

U.S. Will Always Face Terror, Say Americans

Many adults in the United States think their country will forever be a target for terrorists, according to a poll by CBS News. 81 per cent of respondents think the U.S. will always have to live with the threat of terrorism.

Al-Qaeda operatives hijacked and crashed four airplanes in the U.S. on Sept. 11, 2001, killing nearly 3,000 people. In July 2004, the federal commission that investigated the events of 9/11 concluded that "none of the measures adopted by the U.S. government from 1998 to 2001 disturbed or even delayed the progress of the al-Qaeda plot" and pointed out government failures of "imagination, policy, capabilities, and management."

On Sept. 11, U.S. president George W. Bush addressed the nation to discuss the war on terrorism. Bush declared, "Winning this war will require the determined efforts of a unified country, and we must put aside our differences and work together to meet the test that history has given us. We will defeat our enemies. We will protect our people. And we will lead the 21st century into a shining age of human liberty." 49 per cent of respondents think the U.S. is adequately prepared to deal with another terrorist attack, down 15 points since March 2003.

Polling Data HERE

*****end of clip*****

There is the rub, 81% of Americans believe we will always face the threat of terrorism. That is why Bush is having trouble gaining any traction on his pro-war agenda. People are not really well informed but it is common sense that there will always be criminal behavior.

capt

Candidate Franken

Gearing up for a possible Minnesota state senate run, Al Franken is changing his image from provocateur to politico. Will he still call Rush Limbaugh a big fat idiot?

Al Franken is on a mission. The "Saturday Night Live" alumnus has been subjecting the American right to scorn and mockery for years, first as a political satirist and more recently as a talk radio host. Now, Franken is seriously considering a Senate run in 2008 and promoting a new film about his political coming of age.

"God Spoke," the new documentary by Nick Doob and Chris Hegedus, tracks Franken's unlikely evolution. Its title is a dig at Rush Limbaugh, who proclaims to millions of dittoheads nationwide that he has "talent on loan from God."

Polling Data HERE

*****end of clip*****

It is kind of funny to think about but I doubt he will run.

capt

U.N. Inspectors Dispute Iran Report By House Panel
_______________

Paper on Nuclear Aims Called Dishonest

By Dafna Linzer
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 14, 2006; Page A17

U.N. inspectors investigating Iran's nuclear program angrily complained to the Bush administration and to a Republican congressman yesterday about a recent House committee report on Iran's capabilities, calling parts of the document "outrageous and dishonest" and offering evidence to refute its central claims.

Officials of the United Nations' International Atomic Energy Agency said in a letter that the report contained some "erroneous, misleading and unsubstantiated statements." The letter, signed by a senior director at the agency, was addressed to Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.), chairman of the House intelligence committee, which issued the report. A copy was hand-delivered to Gregory L. Schulte, the U.S. ambassador to the IAEA in Vienna.

The IAEA openly clashed with the Bush administration on pre-war assessments of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Relations all but collapsed when the agency revealed that the White House had based some allegations about an Iraqi nuclear program on forged documents.

After no such weapons were found in Iraq, the IAEA came under additional criticism for taking a cautious approach on Iran, which the White House says is trying to building nuclear weapons in secret. At one point, the administration orchestrated a campaign to remove the IAEA's director general, Mohamed ElBaradei. It failed, and he won the Nobel Peace Prize last year.
______________

So...who 'ya gonna believe THIS time?

-T

Alan, TRH, Mr. Corn, et. al.

I rest my case re: Spy per his words below:

"so. the whole lot of you outrageous conspiracy theory tolerating dwarf fuckin moron enablers can kiss my ass while i scream bloody murder for a real investigation. have i made finally (fuck you too you phony!) made my position as regarding 9/11 clear to you bushco wannabees?"

pitiful.

Alan, how can you continue to have any sort of dialogue with this moron?

Alan,

Spy's becoming more unhinged at #9 (if that's possible.)

"... what the fuck. bushco's 9/11 was the catalyst for the war on terror including DU and some of you evil dwarf motherfuckers have the gall to pretend that bushco are the good guys. i would so pinch your evil dwarf enabling heads."

Even I didn't realize just how disturbed he is!

Here's a philosophical question for everyone.

As confirmed by NBC News, the American military recently had 190 Taliban insurgents in its sights in Afghanistan, but refused to attack them because the insurgents were all at a funeral. The aerial pictures show the insurgents all lined up neatly in rows. One rocket would have taken them all out like bowling pins.

Do you think it was right to refrain from attacking them because they were all at a funeral?

They prefer to wait for weddings before dropping bombs.

Saladin,
Cute but unresponsive comment.

Should they have bombed the Taliban at the cemetery?

And it's Islamofascists who intentionally bomb weddings.

what is an "islamofascist?" is that just another bushism?

Bias in the mainstream media:

The lies that went around the world were on the front pages while the truth uncovering those lies is now on the back pages.

Disgusting.

As has been pointed out so many times, terrorism is not a nation or a race or a religion, it's a tactic. Yes, I'm quite fearful of what terrorism a Democratic victory in November could bring to our country. But the terrorism that I'm fearful of doesn't only have its source in Islam. Have we all forgotten that 9/11 wasn't the only terrorist attack that we've suffered in this country? Around 10 years ago we witnessed, among other images, a weeping fireman carrying the broken body of a murdered baby. That baby was murdered by Timothy McVeigh in Oklahoma City. McVeigh was so right-wing he'd make John Birch blush. McVeigh's beef was Waco and Ruby Ridge. What grievances will a Democratic House or Senate or both dredge up from the ultra right-wing in this country, with the poison (a la Coulter)that's being used to construct ever higher and more ominous flames of ignorance? I live in a very, very, very conservative place and some of the voices I'm hearing are pretty frightening. They're coming from people who don't need much provocation to show just how violent they can be. I'm not referring to rednecks exclusively, I know quite a few rednecks who are right there with me in the Bush must go department. Military contractor types in suits are very often the worst. Paranoia? It's already happened once, devastatingly, and the tone of our political debate is much more dangerous than it was then. Never say it can't happen here. It already has.

Obviously somebody in a lofty intelligence position leaked the photo AND the story of how the 190 Taliban mourners were spared due to the sensitive nature of their location.

Would not a better course of action to be surveillance of all these people and follow-up to find their hideouts/caches/enablers? Oh, yeah, that would require more manpower than what is available, since the REAL "WOT" is in Iran...uhm I mean Iraq...uhm...I mean wherever it is these daze!

ralphing, bombing people is far more satisfying for the bloodthirsty among us.

sorry about that ralph, I've obviously ingested too much caffeine!

U.N. Inspectors Dispute Iran Report By House Panel: Paper on Nuclear Aims Called Dishonest Source: Washington Post

U.N. inspectors investigating Iran's nuclear program angrily complained to the Bush administration and to a Republican congressman yesterday about a recent House committee report on Iran's capabilities, calling parts of the document "outrageous and dishonest" and offering evidence to refute its central claims.
Officials of the United Nations' International Atomic Energy Agency said in a letter that the report contained some "erroneous, misleading and unsubstantiated statements." The letter, signed by a senior director at the agency, was addressed to Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.), chairman of the House intelligence committee, which issued the report. A copy was hand-delivered to Gregory L. Schulte, the U.S. ambassador to the IAEA in Vienna.
The IAEA openly clashed with the Bush administration on pre-war assessments of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Relations all but collapsed when the agency revealed that the White House had based some allegations about an Iraqi nuclear program on forged documents.
After no such weapons were found in Iraq, the IAEA came under additional criticism for taking a cautious approach on Iran, which the White House says is trying to building nuclear weapons in secret. At one point, the administration orchestrated a campaign to remove the IAEA's director general, Mohamed ElBaradei. It failed, and he won the Nobel Peace Prize last year.
Yesterday's letter, a copy of which was provided to The Washington Post, was the first time the IAEA has publicly disputed U.S. allegations about its Iran investigation. The agency noted five major errors in the committee's 29-page report, which said Iran's nuclear capabilities are more advanced than either the IAEA or U.S. intelligence has shown.
Among the committee's assertions is that Iran is producing weapons-grade uranium at its facility in the town of Natanz. The IAEA called that "incorrect," noting that weapons-grade uranium is enriched to a level of 90 percent or more. Iran has enriched uranium to 3.5 percent under IAEA monitoring.
When the congressional report was released last month, Hoekstra said his intent was "to help increase the American public's understanding of Iran as a threat." Spokesman Jamal Ware said yesterday that Hoekstra will respond to the IAEA letter.
===============
Unfreakinbelievable. It's like we live in the Twilight Zone where the same monsters keep tricking us with the same tricks which we keep falling for.

doesn't it make sense that plame was outed so that the truth about irans nuclear ambitions and ability will never be known?

And it's Islamofascists who intentionally bomb weddings.

and it's the us forces who are intentionally spreading DU around as if it was bug spray thus poisoning everything in sight for generations to come.

just keep on looking the other way.

it's more comfortable that way.

The mysterious case of the disappearing 'terrorÔøΩ plots Source: www.greenleft.org.au/back/2006/683/683p19.htm By Norm Dixon Green Left Weekly: Sept 13, 2006

Readers of Britain's newspapers are regularly accosted with blood-curdling banner headlines screaming of the thwarting of potentially catastrophic terror plots, of Islamic fanatics being apprehended in daring midnight raids.
Chilling details, revealed by anonymous police and government sources, underline why we must accept a trade-off between civil liberties and security, the editorials assure an apprehensive populace. Months or even years later, however, news that many of the plots never actually existed is buried behind the latest sex scandal or exploitative expose, if reported at all. On August 10, deputy commissioner of London's Metropolitan Police Paul Stephenson declared that a plan tocause untold death and destruction and mass murder on an unimaginable scal had been foiled with the arrest of 24 people. We believe that the terrorists aim was to smuggle explosives onto planes in hand luggage to detonate them in flight, Stephenson alleged. Britain's and the world's mass media trumpeted the claims.
However, within days the dramatic case against the detainees as told to the media by anonymous US and British government and police sources began to unravel. The claim that an attack was imminent was false. No reservations had been made or airline tickets purchased by the 10 charged with serious terrorism offences; several did not even have passports. Apparently, just one had used the internet to check flight schedules recently. There were no bombs.
The assertion that the detainees intended to destroy 10-12 aircraft was speculative and exaggerated, a British official admitted to the August 28 New York Times. Claims of a convoluted Pakistani connection between the plotters and al Qaeda have disappeared. The possibility of successfully concocting liquid bombs from household products in a plane's toilet mid-air has been dismissed by chemical experts.

Misrepresentation

Gareth Pierce, defence lawyer for the 17-year-old in the case accused of possessing items useful to a person preparing acts of terrorism, told the August 31 Chicago Tribune how police had misrepresented what they had found at the boy's mother's home and twisted it to fit their grandiose claims. According to police, suicide notes, a map of Afghanistan and a bomb manual had been found.
What was actually discovered, Pierce told the Tribune, were wills written by people who had fought in Bosnia more than 10 years earlier. The accused was just six when much of this material was placed in the box! They're not suicide notes at all. They're really simple wills. To call these suicide notes was absolutely disgraceful, Pierce said.
The wills were found in a box that once belonged to the boy's father, who has since divorced and moved out, when he ran a now-defunct charity that helped displaced Bosnian Muslims. The box also contained a crude map drawn by the boy's younger brother when he was a child. There was also a book of drawings of electrical circuits, which even if it was of some use in building a bomb, it would be useless for the device that police allege the group was trying to construct.
===========
I knew this was just more bullshit lies. I guess these are the "IslamoNaziFascists" we're supposed to bomb the shit out of, right? Idiots will believe anything.

tim you are a dwarf pinhead moron! if you are offended by my labeling of you as such then by all means say so you look-the-other-way-simply-because-it's-more-comfortable moral and ethical coward. you are dishonoring the memories of the 9/11 victims with your acceptance of lies simply because they are official.
i don't care if you pretend that i am the one who is unhinged because i an not the one who is cringing in fear of retaliation by our govt for speaking out. use your brain - and remember that beavis is the smart one!

Saladin,

I'd be interested if anybody had a timeline of "Terrorist Scares" alongside one of what political issue they were distracting from.

But I'm workin' and can't do my own research!

-T

Hajji,

Just remember your college stats:

Correlation does not equal causation!

Also, I wouldn't depend upon Saladin for research as she doesn't even know what a scientific poll is!

Anyway, it's pointless to imply that simply because events such as the arrests in London coincide with political "events" that it means anything at all!

I'll tell you one thing. I'm not "distracted" at all. I am capable of colsely following politics AND the war on terror at the same time. Well, duh.

If you believe there's any difference between the two, then you lend credence to spy's assertions!

Wow! Now Saladin is smarter than Scotland Yard!

Amazing AND impressive!

Hajji, Keith Olbermann had a fine breakdown on the terror alert/political event co-incidental issue.

August 14, 2006

Hajji,

Sorry, guess I'm dense this morning, but I didn't catch your drift.

Saladin and others make a lot of assertions that arise not from any credible intelligence, facts, or reasoned analyses, but rather from their own biases. That is the essence of my point.

It would be funny if it weren't so damaging to our country's interests abroad when people elevate accusations and outright lies to what they consider "the truth."

Former President Carter is a prime example. He recently asserted that " all available evidence" indicates inmates at Club Gitmo are being subjected to mental and physical torture!!!

Un-fkn believable! This is simply a bald-faced lie not supported by any facts whatsoever. Now, what mental image gets formed in the minds of people in other countries when the former President makes such outrageous statements, hmmmm?

I'll tell you. They relate the word torture to how it is practiced in their own country! It isn't too big of a leap for them at that point to form an extremely negative view of the U.S.A. which is grossly inaccurate. To add insult to injury, we then see the left in this country REPEATING the lie!

It's no wonder our reputation is taking a beating! It's also clear that we are faced with "the enemy within" who are doing all in their power to destroy America as we know it.

It goes without saying I am not persuaded by their arguments nor sympathetic to any of their "causes."

O.K., off the soapbox...

Bush bots got a day off from school? Or they needed some more money for the weekend. Sure are lots of more than stupid accusations and other miniscule facts that really show how they are propagandists for the current crowd in power. Wonder where they get their jobs? Interesting that they show up here more or less on a circuit, here and at other blogs just to push the talking points. No use, preaching to the people that don't believe the BS. Again!!

Tim, standing on your head on that soapbox will not change the facts, Lets visit Human Rights Watch for a minute and read some of the interesting articles shall we:Proposed Military Commissions Deeply Flawed

President George W. Bush's defense of abusing detainees betrays basic American and global standards, Human Rights Watch said today.

Human Rights Committee Criticizes U.S. Practices

The U.N. Human Rights Committee has issued a strongly worded critique of the U.S. government's rights record at home and abroad, Human Rights Watch said today. Human Rights Watch urges the United States to adopt the committee's recommendations, which reflect a growing international consensus that the U.S. is violating basic human rights norms.

Well I suppose you can read the rest.

Denial of the existence of the US torturing suspected terrorists does not mean it does not exist.

Den,

It isn't the actual facts of the abuse...it is the REPORTING of the abuse that give the country it's black eye!

-T

Den,

Coercion isn't the same as torture, period.

Den,

Further, I'll give a little more credit to the U.N. when they start speaking out against the beheadings committed by the practitioners of "the religion of peace."

If anything, I believe we've been CODDLING the prisoners we take! A prime example are the many suspects arrested in and around Baghdad. The military interrogators are severely limited as to what they can even say to these insurgent suspects. The good guys are allowed little more than talking to these suspects and then they have to let them go after a specific number of hours.

The insurgents know this and use it to their advantage. They get released and go right back to making car bombs! And you folks wonder why we can't get a handle on the violence there???

Tim, apparently the Encyclopedia Britannica does not agree with you and nor do I.

Torture

Infliction of intolerable physical or psychological pain.

Torture has been used by governments throughout history for punishment, coercion, and intimidation and for extracting confessions and information. A common practice in ancient times, it was defended by Aristotle but eloquently opposed by Cicero, Seneca, and St. Augustine. Beginning in the 12th century, torture was increasingly used in Europe; from the mid-14th through the 18th century it was a common part of the legal proceedings of most European countries. The Roman Catholic church supported its use by the Inquisition in cases of heresy. Common instruments of torture were the strappado (for repeatedly hoisting the body by the wrists behind the back and dropping it), the rack (for stretching the limbs and body), and the thumbscrew (for crushing the thumbs). By 1800 torture was illegal in many European countries, but it became common again in the 20th century, notably in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, and it is still widely practiced in Latin America, Africa, and the Middle East. In 1984 the United Nations adopted an international convention against torture and other forms of cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment. By the early 21st century some 130 countries were party to the convention. The belief that only sadists are capable of committing torture was challenged by a study in the 1960s that found that ordinary people could be easily persuaded to inflict pain on others.

Hope I cleared that up.

Club Gitmo; I'm thinking of booking a stay!

I can have all my strict religious dietary needs catered to.

I can practice my religion freely.

I can throw excrement on the guards!

I can starve myself and blame the U.S. Military for my ill health.

etc. etc. ad nauseum

Den,

"Torture

Infliction of intolerable physical or psychological pain."

So playing the red-hot chili peppers REALLY LOUD qualifies? So subjecting prisoners to extreme cold qualifies? Mind you , neither of these incur any permanent harm to the prisoners.

The definition you cite is extremely broad and so subjective as to be nearly useless. I think there are better ones.

Enjoy your stay, Timmy!

what is the intended result of all this 'coercion'?
to determine where achmed has hidden his 5 rifles and his 12 bullets?

iraq was under a microscope since day one and the bushco claim that they were looking for WMD was bullshit. period.
every claim bushco has made has been nothing more than a distractive diversion to keep hopeful pinhead wannabees happy and supportive of their evil profiteering at the expense of inferior cattle bullshit.
as if they are spreading democracy. they are spreading DU.
as if they are protecting us from terrorists. look at syria - bushco sides with the terrorist against the secular syrian govt.

defense contractors are raking it in hand over fist in this bogus war on terror with no end. you just keep on pretending that they are not.

The Olberman clip was pretty good. Denial that the obvious timing of arrests...announcements and press conferences to bolster support of the WOT are political is clearly pathologic and is the root cause of the continuation of such.

LETTER: Powell Says Bush Plan To Authorize Torture Could Put Troops At Risk

Gen. Colin Powell issued a letter today sharply criticizing President Bush'snew legislation that would establish a system of military commissions to try suspected terrorists. See a copy of the letter HERE.

Bush's proposal would "liberalize the definition of what is torture" by amending the War Crimes Act to "permit use of hypothermia, threats of violence to the detainee and his family, stress positions, long-time standing, prolonged sleep deprivation, and possibly waterboarding."

In his letter, Powell writes, "The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism. To redefine Common Article 3 would add to those doubts. Furthermore, it would put our own troops at risk."

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

The blood thirsty armchair generals and chicken-hawks are no even close to the reality of war, torture or action. They just say stupid BU__SH__ because they have no clue.

What would a chicken-hawk wannbe know about how to treat prisoners and why would they care about what is or is not moral. They think war is like a computer game where they can be tough by acting tough. What a gaggle of major losers.

capt

Check the dates when OBL video's have been released.

Right before elections. Hmmmmmm

2002, 2004 and now in 2006. I see a pattern.

capt

Alan, how can you continue to have any sort of dialogue with this moron?

Well, you definitely have a point Tim. Sometimes I can't help it, and I want to point out the truth to counter his paranoid posts. Most times it's more funny than worrisome. I believe I have found the best answer for him, one that he can relate to in his netherworld... it was pink elephants and thermite fairies that did 9/11.

it is a sad day when weapons contractors and oil barons achieve positions of authority and dominance by lying for the sole purpose of increasing their already incredible profit margins at the expense of humanity and the very earth itself, but it is a sadder day still when people who are smart enough to know better bend over backwards lying to themselves and each other in support of these profiteering dominance charades that are so patently obvious that they are almost cartoon-like in their cliched ridiculousness.
simon bar sinister is rubbing his hands together in glee somewhere.

From timmeh

"Club Gitmo; I'm thinking of booking a stay!

I can have all my strict religious dietary needs catered to.

I can practice my religion freely.

I can throw excrement on the guards!

I can starve myself and blame the U.S. Military for my ill health.

etc. etc. ad nauseum"

That's it, mock the truth, just keep "catapulting the propaganda" and burying your head in the sand.

Which do you prefer, the mushroom technique or the ostarich technique ?

Followed up by more mockery.

"So playing the red-hot chili peppers REALLY LOUD qualifies? So subjecting prisoners to extreme cold qualifies? Mind you , neither of these incur any permanent harm to the prisoners."

If you play it loud enough, it can do permanent damage to your ears, if you play it long enough it can do psychological harm.

Or are you trying to imply that our military uses these "harmless" tactics because they intentionally don't want to achieve success?

Coercion isn't the same as torture, period.

"What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell just as sweet;"

- Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet

Except in this case, it smells like shit.

Alan,

Yeah, I was that way for a while and I just couldn't help myself. Your tolerance level is obviously higher than mine!

Anyway, the best one I heard was "small atomic devices attached to the beams" Wow! And they were serious. Another honorable mention goes to "cruise missles with holographic projectors" onboard!!!

look alan, until you can explain why the columns of the towers provided no resistance to the ones above them as the floors disintegrated from the top down at the same rate as a bowling ball dropped from the same height would free-fall thru the air then everything you say in defense of the official govt/media fairytale is just so much bullshit.
i have no fear of your constant little girl like belittlement of me. you can fuck off and take butt head with you on your way.

Mr Turd,

Coercion works. Just ask the commanders who are actually there (Gitmo and Baghram for example.)

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating true torture, but the reality is that you have to make extremely recalcitrant people VERY uncomforatble to get the info out of 'em.

I think Al Capone said it best, "Give me a pair of pliers and a blowtorch and I can make any man talk."

Alan,

"...you can fuck off and take butt head with you on your way."

Wow! He told you, didn't he? He's begging for attention, get it? I say a little time in the wilderness will do him so good...

Don,

If you don't know or can't discern the difference between coercion and torture, please don't join a police force or the military...

Congressman addresses hate group

COLUMBIA, S.C. Sept. 11, 2006 -- For a college football game day, the South Carolina State Museum in downtown Columbia was a busy place on the afternoon of Saturday, Sept. 9.

On the ground floor, a United States Army brass band commemorated the victims of 9/11. One level up, not far from the museum's permanent Confederate Army exhibit, the state chapter of the League of the South (LOS), a neo-Confederate hate group, hosted a barbeque in honor of Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo, head of the House Immigration Reform Caucus and likely contestant in the 2008 GOP presidential primary. Proceeds from the $15 per-plate fundraiser went to Americans Have Had Enough!, a South Carolina-based non-profit coalition for which Tancredo serves as honorary chairman.

While Tancredo's hard-line "deport 'em all" stance on immigration has made him a favorite politician of white supremacists, this marked the first time the congressman has appeared at a hate group event.

More HERE

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What an embarrassment. Hate sucks no matter who or how.

capt

If you don't know or can't discern the difference between coercion and torture, please don't join a police force or the military...

Well, their are a cuple of guys who used to be in the military who didn't get your memo.

All of this "moral relativism" bullshit we hear from the right? Projection.

You only have to look at Iraq or Lebanon to see what it looks like when you're the victim.
They're wiping people out.
They're spreading depleted uranium across the globe.
It's nuclear waste.
It's radioactive.
It's got a half-life of 4.5 billion years.
They are decomissioning the world for life.
And they say they are doing it because the Muslims want to kill us.
And 911 is their proof of that?

US Iran report branded dishonest

The UN nuclear watchdog has protested to the US government over a report on Iran's nuclear programme, calling it "erroneous" and "misleading".

In a leaked letter, the IAEA said a congressional report contained serious distortions of the agency's own findings on Iran's nuclear activity.

The IAEA also took "strong exception" to claims made over the removal of a senior safeguards inspector.

There was no immediate comment from Washington over the letter.

More HERE

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Dishonest, erroneous or just plain lies intended to support a warmongering psycho. How many ways can we say evil?

capt