Corn!

Well, David, ya see, clear means ya can't see it. So Saddam was a "clear threat" ya know, invisible like. Them's the worst kinds, cause ya can't see 'em comining. That's why we had to move when we did. Is that clear, now?

Mr. President, during your speech commemorating the fifth anniversary of 9/11, you defended the war in Iraq by saying that Saddam Hussein had been a "clear threat."

We now know--thanks to the final report of the Iraq Survey Group, led by Charles Duelfer--that Iraq had no WMDs and its WMD capacity was "essentially destroyed" after 1991.

We also know--thanks to the recent report of the Republican-controlled Senate intelligence committee--that there was no significant connection between Saddam's brutal regime and al Qaeda.

So no WMDs, no relationship with al Qaeda. So then what made Saddam Hussein, as brutal as he was, a "clear threat" to the United States? Can you please cite specific facts to support that assertion?

Posted by David Corn at September 20, 2006 05:03 PM

Or do you lack sufficient intellectual fortitude to address my question, other than spewing sophomoric retorts?

Please don't be an intellectual coward. Please answer my question.

Posted by: factchecker at September 20, 2006 03:43 PM

Mr. President, during your speech commemorating the fifth anniversary of 9/11, you defended the war in Iraq by saying that Saddam Hussein had been a "clear threat."

We now know--thanks to the final report of the Iraq Survey Group, led by Charles Duelfer--that Iraq had no WMDs and its WMD capacity was "essentially destroyed" after 1991.

We also know--thanks to the recent report of the Republican-controlled Senate intelligence committee--that there was no significant connection between Saddam's brutal regime and al Qaeda.

So no WMDs, no relationship with al Qaeda. So then what made Saddam Hussein, as brutal as he was, a "clear threat" to the United States? Can you please cite specific facts to support that assertion?

Posted by David Corn at September 20, 2006 05:03 PM

Or do you lack sufficient intellectual fortitude to address my question, other than spewing sophomoric retorts?

Please don't be an intellectual coward. Please answer my question.

Posted by: factchecker at September 20, 2006 03:43 PM

Mr. President, during your speech commemorating the fifth anniversary of 9/11, you defended the war in Iraq by saying that Saddam Hussein had been a "clear threat."

We now know--thanks to the final report of the Iraq Survey Group, led by Charles Duelfer--that Iraq had no WMDs and its WMD capacity was "essentially destroyed" after 1991.

We also know--thanks to the recent report of the Republican-controlled Senate intelligence committee--that there was no significant connection between Saddam's brutal regime and al Qaeda.

So no WMDs, no relationship with al Qaeda. So then what made Saddam Hussein, as brutal as he was, a "clear threat" to the United States? Can you please cite specific facts to support that assertion?

Posted by David Corn at September 20, 2006 05:03 PM

Or do you lack sufficient intellectual fortitude to address my question, other than spewing sophomoric retorts?

Please don't be an intellectual coward. Please answer my question.

Posted by: factchecker at September 20, 2006 03:43 PM

A fellow on a bad acid trip called in, and Carter, who was able to suss out exactly what sort of acid the guy had taken, talked him down. - David Corn

Sorry about those that got the Brown, we had a whole lot of Orange, and it was fine, and it still is fine. Everybodies vibrating. Grace Slick at Woodstock

apologies for the triple post.

On the NewsHour tonight

GEN. JOHN ABIZAID

Jim Lehrer conducts a Newsmaker interview with Army General John Abizaid, the top U.S. commander in the Middle East, about security forces in Iraq and improvements in the region.


TARGETED AND TORTURED

Jeffrey Brown reports on Maher Arar, the Canadian citizen wrongly targeted by Canadian and U.S. enforcement agencies that was arrested and sent to a Syrian prison where he was tortured. Then, Brown speaks with Paul Cavalluzzo, who served as the lead attorney for the independent inquiry into Maher Arar's case.

eyes_open
The collapse of a block of WTC floors onto the floor...

in the case of wtc2 which disintegrated first there was a block of 30 or so floors that tilted by as much as 23 deg.
all of the official analyses of the disintegration of wtc2 model this block of floors as having slammed all of it's weight down onto the next floor down thus causing what they at first called a pancake collapse but are now calling a global collapse.
what these official analyses all seem to ignore is that this block of 30 or so floors was itself disintegrating from it's bottom simultaneous to the lower section's disintegration from the top. since these floors including the block of 30 or so had disintegrated into powder and the steel columns were being ejected away none of it could have exerted any kind of significant weight onto each successively lower floor.
this phenomenon can be observed simply by watching a video of the demise of wtc2 which disintegrated at the astounding rate of 11 floors per second from the top down in 10 seconds total.

since a bowling ball dropped from the same height at the same moment would hit the ground at the same time after falling thru thin air alone we can know that there is no way that any of the 110 stories each of 47 extra massive core columns, 200+ regular massive perimeter columns not to mention the massive steel spandrels and extra sturdy corner assemblies provided any resistance against the top of wtc2 as it reached the ground.
so what was the cause of all this steel removing itself from the path of most resistance?

either the steel was simply terrified and leapt out of the way in a sequential order from top to bottom (at the astounding rate of 11 floors/second) or they were spirited out of the way by magic or they were assisted out of the way by explosives.

This is a question that IS NOT framed correctly. This type of question is so typical of the simplistic "gotcha" mentality so prevalent in our society today.

The proper question (which has already been answered) is: "Mr. President, during your speech commemorating the fifth anniversary of 9/11, you defended the war in Iraq by saying that Saddam Hussein had been a "clear threat." We know that all the available intelligence and analysis pointed to this at that time, but in the final report of the Iraq Survey Group, led by Charles Duelfer, we learned that Iraq had no WMDs and its WMD capacity was "essentially destroyed" after 1991. Given this, what could we have done to more accurately assessed the threat?

DOODY,

Please refrain from addressing me unless I have a specific question for you or comment to you. I don't talk to silly, little people.

factchecker:

“This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put.” - attributed to Winston Churchill

Please refrain from addressing me unless I have a specific question for you or comment to you.

Posted by: factchecker at September 20, 2006 05:36 PM

Oh, you are the moderator on this blog, now? I missed that memo. Factchecker, did something I say hit you the wrong way? Don't bother answering. I don't really want to know.

If you don’t mind, please check this post for spelling and grammatical errors and report back as soon as you are able.

eyes_open --- For reliable information regarding some aspects of the events on 2001 Sep 11, try the sites "911 Myths" and "Debunking 911 Conspiracy Theorys". For a forum to discuss the physics, try

PhysOrgForum

A second issue is the cooperation between Saddam and Al Qaida. There was DEFINITELY assistance and cooperation provided by Saddam! This has been well-documented. What the anti-war crowd seizes on is the analysis that there was no DIRECT involvement (that we are yet able to prove) between Iraq and Al Qaida re: 9/11.

The "yet" is crucial. We have yet to translate and analyze literally TONS of documents, computer files, etc. that we seized when Saddam's governnment collapsed as we captured Baghdad! In fact, there is tantalizing new evidence coming out that Saddam was providing significant help to terrorists involved in anti-U.S. operations.

You folks that are so vehemently cock-sure that you KNOW that the President "lied" will likely have to eat your own words before it's all said and done. In fact, there is no evidence to date that implicates the President in anything of the sort. If you think that I am wrong, then please explain why he hasn't been impeached. I'm waiting.

re: @9)
and since there were many many eyewitness reports including firemen of explosions occurring moments before wtc2 disintegrated we can probably safely rule out magic.
now the question should be:
how did the islamofascists manage to plant and detonate explosives in the wtc?

yes eyes_open - do visit physorg forum. and be sure to ask them if it was explosives or magic or the steel simply leapt out of the way in terror.

eyes,

I know you and I know you keep an open mind, but please don't be swayed by raving idiots like James Ha (aka. many aliases) when it comes to the events of 9/11!

If you are interested, I can e-mail you some excellent links that provide scientific, credible information on the subject. In fact, David B. turned me onto one of the best sites I've seen so far that de-bunks the wacky conspiracy theories out there.

-Tim

RS,

No, I believe the quote was, "Ending a sentence with a preposition is something with which I will not up put."

Mr. David Corn,

I remeber a day when we all cheered because you were able to ask one question (of Rove) - received a non-answer. As we know the correct answer the question is moot anyway. Would be cool to hear someone ask the tough questions again. We seem to be missing anything like that from the WH press corps.

It is clear that nothing will ever get through the thick skulls of some of the neocons.

Thanks for all of your work

Kirk

tim, that's very nice of you to refer to a secret link that only you and DB (and alan of course) are privvy to! what a guy!

A possible answer from Bush: "You are conveniently forgetting, my friend, the aluminum tubes. That great metallurgist herself, Condolezza Rice, pointed out once and for all that those aluminum tubes are 'really only suitable for the separation of isotopes.' "

Poor Tim. We went to war based on aluminum tubes and large quantities of uranium. At the time this evidence was presented to the President, there was credible descent within the intelligence community that these two claims were reasonable. We pressed on regardless. Time and again, the evidence for WMD was specious and in hindsight unsubstantiated. Do you need George to put his hand on a bible and admit it before you see the truth?

What are doing here?

The Value of Inspections

Inspections are time consuming but, if successful, can ensure disarmament through peaceful means. It is worth recalling that, in our past experience in Iraq, the elimination of its nuclear weapons programme was mostly accomplished through intrusive inspections. It is also worth recalling that the presence of international inspectors in Iraq today continues to serve as an effective deterrent to and insurance against resumption of programmes to develop weapons of mass destruction, even as we continue to look for possible past activities.

CONCLUSION
To conclude: we have to date found no evidence that Iraq has revived its nuclear weapons programme since the elimination of the programme in the 1990s. However, our work is steadily progressing and should be allowed to run its natural course. With our verification system now in place, barring exceptional circumstances, and provided there is sustained proactive cooperation by Iraq, we should be able within the next few months to provide credible assurance that Iraq has no nuclear weapons programme. These few months would be a valuable investment in peace because they could help us avoid a war. We trust that we will continue to have your support as we make every effort to verify Iraq’s nuclear disarmament through peaceful means, and to demonstrate that the inspection process can and does work, as a central feature of the international nuclear arms control regime.

THE STATUS OF NUCLEAR INSPECTIONS IN IRAQ
Statement to the
United Nations Security Council
New York
27 January 2003
Mohamed ElBaradei,
Director General

UNMOVIC’s capability
Mr President, I must not conclude this “update” without some notes on the growing capability of UNMOVIC.

In the past two months, UNMOVIC has built-up its capabilities in Iraq from nothing to 260 staff members from 60 countries. This includes approximately 100 UNMOVIC inspectors, 60 air operations staff, as well as security personnel, communications, translation and interpretation staff, medical support, and other services at our Baghdad office and Mosul field office. All serve the United Nations and report to no one else. Furthermore, our roster of inspectors will continue to grow as our training programme continues — even at this moment we have a training course in session in Vienna. At the end of that course, we shall have a roster of about 350 qualified experts from which to draw inspectors.

A team supplied by the Swiss Government is refurbishing our offices in Baghdad, which had been empty for four years. The Government of New Zealand has contributed both a medical team and a communications team. The German Government will contribute unmanned aerial vehicles for surveillance and a group of specialists to operate them for us within Iraq. The Government of Cyprus has kindly allowed us to set up a Field Office in Larnaca. All these contributions have been of assistance in quickly starting up our inspections and enhancing our capabilities. So has help from the UN in New York and from sister organizations in Baghdad.

In the past two months during which we have built-up our presence in Iraq, we have conducted about 300 inspections to more than 230 different sites. Of these, more than 20 were sites that had not been inspected before. By the end of December, UNMOVIC began using helicopters both for the transport of inspectors and for actual inspection work. We now have eight helicopters. They have already proved invaluable in helping to “freeze” large sites by observing the movement of traffic in and around the area.

Setting up a field office in Mosul has facilitated rapid inspections of sites in northern Iraq. We plan to establish soon a second field office in the Basra area, where we have already inspected a number of sites.

Mr. President,

We have now an inspection apparatus that permits us to send multiple inspection teams every day all over Iraq, by road or by air. Let me end by simply noting that that capability which has been built-up in a short time and which is now operating, is at the disposal of the Security Council.

THE SECURITY COUNCIL, 27 JANUARY 2003:
AN UPDATE ON INSPECTION
Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC, Dr. Hans Blix
27 January

*******************************

Tim, tell your lies elsewhere, they're aren't credible here.

slackchecker, ya don't even read, do ya? Ya know what attributed to means? Actually, I looked and found multiple assertions as to which the original quote was.

"From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put."
~ Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

*****

To correct someone you would have to actually be correct.

capt

I think Saddam himself provided the best case for war. He acted like he DID have something to hide and obstructed U.N. inspections AT EVERY TURN.

I think Saddam clearly understood he faced a possible invasion, but played a high-stakes game of brinkmanship nonetheless. Why?

Ultimately he lost. The world (and the people of Iraq) will be better off when he's executed.

GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, ya see, Wolf, there's an old sayin' about a "clear and present danger." It's my job as the Commander-in-Chief to clearly see those clear and present dangers, which is exactly what I did see. I looked at Saddam and gave him my "clear and present danger" test which is sumpthin' I do, especially when we're facing evil clear and present dangers like al-Qaeda and a war on terra and Hamas and Hezbollah and pygmies.

Wolf, there's another word for "present" and that's "imminent" which was the facts we were facing if we let Saddam stay in power, ya see. The fact is peaceful folks saw Saddam as a imminent threat and we acted on that imminence over there, so they don't get Amerikuns over here. It's my job to keep Amerikuns safe and that's the job I'm doing and also bringing peace and freedom to peaceful folks all around the world.

If you think that I am wrong, then please explain why he hasn't been impeached. - Tim

Uh, I'm only guessing here, but maybe it has something to do with GOPher control of Congress. Just a hunch, ya think?

The world (and the people of Iraq) will be better off when he's executed. - Tim

Sure, make another martyr, only one more dead Iraqi, who is counting.

I looked at Saddam and gave him my "clear and present danger" test which is sumpthin' I do, especially when we're facing evil clear and present dangers like al-Qaeda and a war on terra and Hamas and Hezbollah and pygmies. - Micki

About that "war on terra" part, we are all Terrans.

We gotta watch them pygmies, too. They like dagga, which sounds like dagger, see?

Um, except the aliens.

HA!

capt

House Judiciary Committee Rejects Bush's Military Tribunal Plan in Bipartisan Vote

The House Judiciary Committee today rejected Bush's excessive, unconstitutional military tribunal proposal, 17-20. The bipartisan vote mirrored the recent rebellion of moderate Senate Republicans over the same bill.

The House Armed Services Committee endorsed the bill last week, but it was also sent to Judiciary because of overlapping jurisdiction. While Republican leaders can still bring the legislation before the full House, a senior source in Washington told BuzzFlash that the failed vote proves that the tribunal plan is ill-conceived because the Committee - a panel of experienced legal experts - have rejected its merits.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Terrorist loving politicians?

capt

James Ha, I have already suggested

Debunking 911 Conspiracy Theories

but you obviously did not bother to read it much. It has expanded since then.

Maybe Tim had in mind "911 Myths"? There are links between the two sites, as well as to several others considered to provide reliable information...

Capt.,

I was watching the footage from Atlantis showing the debris falling away, while the crawl under the image said,

Unidentified object flying near space shuttle!

U.S. warns of increased violence in Iraq

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Top U.S. generals warned Wednesday that violence will increase in Baghdad during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan and said al-Qaida in Iraq already has intensified its assaults against American troops.

The warnings came as violence killed some 65 people and wounded more than 100 in two days. At least 23 people died in bombings and shootings around the country Wednesday, and 10 bodies were found. The day's deadliest attack took place in Samarra, where a suicide car bombing outside a Sunni tribal leader's house killed 10 and wounded 38.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

This is the best we can do, predict more and worse violence?

There is no plan for peace, the outcome of chaos was always the goal. "Mission Accomplished"

capt

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

~ Bill Watterson (1958 - ), cartoonist, "Calvin and Hobbes"

From previous posts (last thread) it looks as if George XLIII is going the way of King George III, does it not? And if the Presidential Disability Amendment is invoked, look how we get as 'Acting' President. This would be a change?

Oops, "who" not "how"!

Argentina Dirty - War Criminal Gets Life Sentence
By REUTERS

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (Reuters) - A retired police commissioner was sentenced on Tuesday to life in prison for murder, torture and kidnappings during Argentina's ``dirty war,'' in one of the first sentences since amnesty laws were scrapped last year.

Miguel Etchecolatz, 77, ran clandestine detention centers as Buenos Aires' provincial police commissioner during the 1976-1983 military dictatorship, in which an estimated 11,000 to 30,000 people were killed in a crackdown on leftists in the South American country.

The reading of the sentence in a federal court in provincial capital La Plata was interrupted when someone in the courthouse threw red paint on Etchecolatz, who kissed a crucifix.

Inside the courtroom dozens of family members of victims and human rights activists wept, applauded and jumped up and down. Outside, hundreds more cheered.

********************************

Memo to George W.

Rust never sleeps.

Well....David is it? Ok...ummmmm incidentally my wife likes the name David. You know Laura. Ahhhh....what was the question? WMDs yeah yeah...see...we have threats out there. Lots of them. From all sides. And we have to defend ourselves from those threats. Orange threats. Red threats. On good days green threats. Saddam was a threat because of what he could do IN THE FUTURE.
Next question. Give me something easy this time.

"Well, Wolf, September the Eleventh changed everthing. Before September the Eleventh, the Constution was our country's foundin docamint; afterward, it was just a damn piece of paper. Before September the Eleventh, we didn't care about terrists; afterward, we didn't care about hurricane victims. Before September the Eleventh, Colin Pall was just a black guy we ignored; afterward, he was a real important black guy who could convince people Saddam was a threat. Before September the Eleventh I was a uniter; afterward I was a decider. Before September the Eleventh I depended on my dad foreverything;

See, everything changed. So if Saddam didn't have nucular bombs before September the Eleventh, that means he had them afterward. If he was enemies with Al-Qaida before, he had to be friends with them after. That's what "everything changed" means, see? It means things are diffrent. And that's how we knew Saddam was a clear threat--because the situation was entirely unclear."

Canada May Protest U.S. Treatment of Tortured Man
By REUTERS
Published: September 19, 2006
Filed at 6:24 p.m. ET

OTTAWA (Reuters) - A formal Canadian protest to Washington appeared to be planned on Tuesday as the result of an official inquiry into the U.S. deportation in 2002 of a Canadian citizen to Syria, where he was subsequently tortured.

The government said it agreed with the 23 recommendations by Justice Dennis O'Connor, who headed the inquiry and concluded that Maher Arar was tortured in Syria, the country of his birth, after being arrested in New York on suspicion of involvement with al Qaeda.

``Mr. Arar has been done a tremendous injustice,'' Prime Minister Stephen Harper told the House of Commons. ``The government has received this report that has a series of recommendations... The government will act swiftly based on those recommendations.''

Most of the recommendations focus on errors made by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, which wrongly told U.S. authorities that Arar was an Islamic extremist.

But one recommendation was to ``register a formal objection with the governments of the United States and Syria concerning their treatment of Mr. Arar and Canadian officials involved with his case.''

More.

****************************

If harboring a terrorist = being a terrorist, then sending someone to be tortured = torturing someone.

Memo to George W.

Rust never sleeps.

DB i don't actually care what tim had in mind since he has already shown us that he either doesn't know what he is talking about or he is a liar. you on the other hand are the chief advisor of http://www.jod911.com/, a group which purports to be 'debunkers' of 9/11 conspiracy theories so you are the one who is supposed to know what he is talking about.
am i correct? very good.

please be so kind as to explain why none of the steel in wtc2 provided any resistance to the top of the tower as it fell to the ground thru this path of most resistance massive amount of steel as fast as it would have if it fell the same distance thru the air alone. thank you.
---------
it's very simple. the govt including NIST and the 9/11 commission has made a claim regarding the demise of the wtc. many scientists and engineers dispute that claim.

did NIST and the rest of the bushco govt actually lie to the world or were they simply mistaken?

it should be a simple matter for the bushco NIST to prove their claims and put these upstart scientists and engineers in their place once and for all, right?

--------------
THE NATIONAL 9/11 DEBATE

As of August 1, 2006, the 9/11 Commissioners, NIST scientists, and other key personnel responsible for the government’s non-sustainable account of what happened in the United States on September 11, 2001 all refuse to participate in the National 9/11 Debate that was originally scheduled for September 16, 2006 in Charleston, SC.

Consequently, the National 9/11 Debate date has been moved forward to March 10, 2007.

---------

so. until this happens and the bushco NIST actually shows up and proves their claims in the face of the ever increasing number of scientists and engineers who actually have the balls to question an official report you lot are stuck with my big mouth. so get used it and put up or shut up.

#34
Capt,
Did the light bulb finally turn on in Congress?

Let me say that we will never leave Iraq!!! Bush lied us into the Iraq war!!! He is set to nuke Iran but he wants to look like he does not want to nuke Iran. Why is waiting to attack Iran??? 53% of the American people favor the nuking of Iran!!!!! We are an anti-Christ nation!!! We do not listen to Jesus' words, "Put down your sword" and "Love one another as I have loved you." Christ is dead in America!!!

#43
eggman,
Perfect.

"Who is light bulb, and when can we bust him for turning on in Congress?" - John P. Waters

That should be John P. Walters, sorry.

Jeanne,

I am a cynic, I think more election year kabuki theater. Watch these guy that have put distance between them and the WH return to the fold as soon as the stolen election is certified.

I do not believe them, not even if they are saying things I like to hear.

But that might be the result of my paranoia so . . .

capt

Capt,
I think they are realizing that their power is being removed and it's scaring them. If they have no control over the administration the country is lost.

In Defense of the Pope

Dear Cornposters:

E.J. Dionne, Jr. had an article titled, "Pope Forgets He's No Longer The Academic." Mr. Dionne say that the Pope made a big mistake, creating problems for himself, his church, and the West. He spoke in the voice of the academic theologian he once was and not as a leader of one of the world's great religions. Being Pope is very different from being professor Joseph Ratzinger.

The Pope did not need to bring in the quotes from a Byzantine emperor. The Pope's speech was also critical of Christianity. In terms of spreading faith through violence and is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul.

The passage on Islam was not truly essential to the Pope's argument. The Pope mentioned the word conscience and that a person's choice must be guided by the church’≥ teachings.

Mr. Dionne mentioned John Paul II. He said that John Paul II saw himself as a leader of the universal church with serious political responsibilities. John Paul II understood that the growth of Christianity requires religious liberty in nations where Christians are in the minority. Mr. Dionne also goes on to say that no institution has more of an interest in religious toleration and a sense of inter-religious comradeship than the Catholic Church.

Did Pope Benedict XVI's comments fully justify the explosion against him in the Muslim world? Did his comments justify the killing of a nun?

A significant number of Muslim religious leaders have said some harsh things about Christians, Jews, and Western secularists in recent years. Where were all of Benedict's Muslim critics when anti-Christian or anti-Jewish statements were made from their own side? That is precisely why a liberalized Islam should take Benedict to task and why he should use his great intellect to move this discussion in a different direction. There are many Muslims who reject the idea that their faith should be spread by the sword. Their cause will not advance by Westerners who take us back to arguments rooted in an era when Christianity and Islam were literally at sword's point.

We should all struggle to interpret our respective traditions in ways that enhance toleration and respect. Muslims who take risks on behalf of religious freedom need to know that non-Muslims are willing to engage with the best and not just the most extreme currents of Islamic thought.

Benedict made a good point when he said, "A reason which is deaf to the divine and which relegates religion into the realm of subcultures is incapable of entering into the dialogue of cultures."

I suspect the problem in the United States of America runs deep in the American psyche as I recall Michael Lind's book, "The Next American Nation." In his book he states that the United States of America is an anti-Catholic nation. We do not have to go to the Muslim world to have this anti-Catholic sentiment felt. We only have to look in our own backyards.

Sincerely,

Gerald

WASHINGTON, Sept 20 (Reuters) - In an abrupt reversal, a U.S. House of Representatives committee narrowly voted on Wednesday to endorse President George W. Bush's plan for tough interrogations and trials of foreign terrorism suspects after Republicans rounded up enough members.

About an hour earlier, the House Judiciary Committee rejected Bush's plan, with three Republicans joining committee Democrats. Embarrassed Republicans then summoned absent members, called for another vote, and approved it 20-19.

PBS set to reveal 'stealth campaign' to cut healthcare, education

PBS newsmagazine NOW this week plans to target what producers are calling, "a stealth campaign for deep cuts in social services," RAW STORY has learned.

The program is to examine ballot initiatives across the nation that it will characterize as deceptively-titled attempts to slash funding in health care and education. "Initiatives with titles like 'Taxpayers' Bill of Rights' and 'SOS - Stop Over Spending'" will be the focus of the segment.

The program is also set to assert that one wealthy New Yorker is secretly helping to orchestrate the push by providing major funding for the nationwide initiatives. Questionable legal and campaign tactics will also be highlighted.
------------
The program NOW is on Friday nights.

While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but once they lose their virtue, they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.... If virtue and knowledge are diffused among the people, they will never be enslaved. This will be their great security: John Adams

=
We are reluctant to admit that we owe our liberties to men of a type that today we hate and fear -- unruly men, disturbers of the peace, men who resent and denounce what Whitman called 'the insolence of elected persons' -- in a word, free men.: Gerald W. Johnson

=
There is almost no kind of outrage-----torture, imprisonment without trial, assassination, the bombing of civilians-----which does not change its moral color when it is committed by 'our' side. . The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them." : George Orwell

=
"As long as I have any choice in the matter, I shall live only in a country where civil liberty, tolerance and equality of all citizens before the law prevail.": Albert Einstein, upon leaving Germany in 1933

===
Thanks ICH Newsletter!

Control the Dictionary, Control the World
By Bernard Weiner
The Crisis Papers
Tuesday 19 September 2006

Clinton tried to fudge the truth when he claimed he'd "never had sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky," but he felt he could get away with that language because, in his mind, he defined "sexual relations" as referring to vaginal intercourse.

Bush, with a straight face, tells us that he has never authorized torture, and he thinks he can get away with that lie because the public is mostly unaware that his administration has totally altered the definition of "torture."

According to the infamous 2002 torture memos, which effectively set the policy, torture no longer means what we all understand that term to mean (physical beatings, shoving suspects under water to "drown" them unless they give up secrets, electric shocks to the genitals, unbearable stress, sexual abuse and humiliation, etc.). No, those internationally-understood definitions have become, under Bush&Co., "quaint" remnants from an earlier era.

Under the leadership of Alberto Gonzales and other lawyers - mainly from the White House, Rumsfeld's office, and Cheney's office - the Bush administration went through all sorts of moral gyrations and emerged with new definitions of what constituted torture. Basically, it's not torture if it doesn't kill you or if the excrutiating pain and injuries don't lead to organ failure.

You think I'm exaggerating? Check it out for yourself. The Justice Department's August 1, 2002, legal memo concluded that "the ban on torture is limited to only the most extreme forms of physical and mental harm," which the memo defined as akin to "death or organ failure."

More.

*********************************

The evidence is damning, Georgie W. and Rust nevers Sleeps. Neither will you, without meds.

Ask Mr. Miguel Etchecolatz, 77 sentenced to Life Imprisonment for Torture, Georgie.

saddam didn't like our dollars anymore so that made him a threat. When a tyrant takes his ball and goes home you are forced to help the people see the democratic light.

we can start torturing AND killing them in large numbers soon.

Break time from politics! Hope everyone is enjoying the lower gasolin prices! Saw a couple of $2.169 per gallon signs today.

A Greek name much in the biz news in recent days: Amaranth (means unfading). Breathtaking way to by `fade' by losing $5 Billion trading natural gas!

Goldman, Morgan hit by Amaranth losses
9 investment bank fund of funds held stakes in stricken U.S.-based hedge Amaranth
September 20 2006

LONDON (Reuters) -- A Goldman Sachs fund listed on the London Stock Exchange invested some five percent, or around $25 million, in U.S.-based Amaranth Advisors, which has disclosed billions of dollars in natural gas losses, Goldman said in a statement.

....Another fund that has been named was the Morgan Stanley (up $1.14 to $72.99, Charts) Institutional Fund of Hedge Funds, which held about $123.6 million worth of Amaranth out of its total $2.3 billion under management as of June 30.

....The Connecticut-based Amaranth Advisors had more than $9 billion in capital under management before announcing on Monday that year-to-date losses may exceed 35 percent because of bad natural gas positions.

A steep fall in oil and natural gas prices over the past two months has hurt others. MotherRock LP's fund collapsed in August due to natural gas positions.....

Re #45: James Ha, I have previously suggested you web trawl on the pyramid at Meidum. You refused. I will now suggest you web trawl on The New World Hotel in Singapore. Both are examples of structures collapsing under their own weight.

The towers were not designed to resist collapse, once initiated. These fell SLOWER than free fall, lots slower, due to the Law of Conservation of Momentum, Newton's First Law.

If that is not enough for you, ask on PhysOrgForum. Most posters here are bored to tears with this topic...

Anybody ever hear of a House Committee staging a do-over, before?

Did anybody see a pig do a fly-by?

I think Factchecker has finally posted a FACT - Is it the beginning of a new era?

Mark the calendar this is welcome news.

capt

House Judiciary Committee Phone #202-225-3951

David, if you are going to spar with GW Bush you need to tie your wits behind your back.

Re #61: I should have said "many", not "most". Don't have any actual statistics...

How would Bush respond to the question? Who knows as he would probably be too unintelligible to understand, but the ending would probably include another middle finger to the camera.

Mr Corn,

Your question should be why didn't Saddam comply with the UN resolutions that would have prevented war in the first place.

Getting closer to Uncle Sam Public kept in dark as business leads talks about North American integration, By Maude Barlow

Toronto Star

While the media were busy obsessing over rumours of a budding romance between Condoleezza Rice and Peter MacKay last week, a more significant relationship was developing behind closed doors.
Away from the spotlight, from Sept. 12 to 14, in Banff Springs, Minister of Public Safety Stockwell Day and Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor met with U.S. and Mexican government officials and business leaders to discuss North American integration at the second North American Forum.
The focus of the event was on North American security and prosperity. Not surprisingly, this included topics such as "A North American Energy Strategy," "Demographic and Social Dimensions of North American Integration" and "Opportunities for Security Co-operation" all topics where the public interest is at odds with that of big business elites.
Unfortunately meetings like this are now commonplace.
Since Paul Martin, Vicente Fox and George W. Bush signed the Security and Prosperity Partnership in March 2005, discussions on continental integration have gone underground.
The media have paid little attention to this far-reaching agreement, so Canadians are unaware that a dozen working groups are currently "harmonizing" Canadian and U.S. regulations on everything from food to drugs to the environment and even more contentious issues like foreign policy.
Make no mistake, this process of harmonization is not about improving food, environmental and other norms; it is about priming North America for better business by weakening the impacts of such perceived obstacles as environmental standards and labour rights.
This is why the public has been kept in the dark while the business elite has played a leading role in designing the blueprint for this more integrated North America. In fact, they have been the driving force.
===========
The Fascist Nation, coming soon to your town. They meet in secret, these big-wig CEO's, to discuss the future of we the people, yet the people are kept in the dark. bush is involved and approves, that alone should raise a dozen red flags.

One Vote Short

McCain
John McCain and two other Republican senators who oppose President Bush’s plan for prosecuting enemy combatants came close to winning support of the House Judiciary Committee today.

As the committee considered the Bush plan, which the House Armed Services Committee passed last week, Reps. Adam Schiff (D., Calif.) and Jeff Flake (R., Ariz.) offered an amendment substituting McCain’s approach. It failed by just one vote — 18-17 — as all the Democrats who were there and two Republicans — Flake and Rep. Bob Inglis of South Carolina — voted for it.

The amendment might have passed had two Democrats not missed the vote; the two were at a news conference on the Medicare drug benefit. A spokesman for Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida, one of the two, said she was rushing back for the vote but just missed it. “She’s obviously disappointed,” said the spokesman, Jonathan Beeton. “It was unfortunate timing.”

********************************

Wow, this committee is chaired by Sensenbrenner, he of the shut off the mikes fame. I can see things getting mighty ugly...fast.

Your question should be why didn't Saddam comply with the UN resolutions that would have prevented war in the first place.

Posted by: LBH at September 20, 2006 07:08 PM

Or this one: Hi my name is LBH. Your George W Bush. I have complete trust in your judgement and competence. I'm pleased to meet you. Are you pleased to meet me?

eyes, that is probably so true! I can see bush throwing a tantrum during a debate with Ahmadinejad and flipping him off.

These fell SLOWER than free fall, lots slower, due to the Law of Conservation of Momentum, Newton's First Law.

this is your explanation? lots slower?
according to newton's law the top of wtc2 would hit the ground in 9.22 seconds if it were falling in a vacuum. everyone reading this knows that a vacuum means no air resistance.

so your contention is that the top of wtc2 reaching the ground thru a 1/4 mile path of 110 stories of 47 extra massive core columns and 200+ regular massive perimeter columns in only 10 seconds is lots slower than the 9.22 seconds that it would have taken to fall the same distance unhindered in a vacuum? no wonder NIST and their lapdogs have changed their story several times now and are cowering in fear at the thought of a real debate with real scientists.

-----
alright then lets move on to a different aspect of 9/11 that you can debunk:
did the plastic nosecone of the aluminum ua175 pierce thru the massive steel columns of wtc2 like an arrow or did it bludgeon thru like them like a hammer or did it perhaps flow thru and around them like mercury?

#70
Robert,
You know what the republicans will do now? They will use the fact that Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz didn't vote on the bill in a campaign ad. They time that stuff.

They think it's so great that they got it passed. Unbelievable. It's all in the winning.

Look at this.
Americans opposed to Bush detainee policy

NYT/CBS News poll released tonight shows that 63 percent of Americans believe the U.S. should follow international agreements on detainee treatment (v. 32 percent who thinks the U.S. should "do what it thinks right, regardless of what other nations think"). Also, 56 percent say torture is never justified, while 35 percent say sometimes it is.

Fungi

Can't answer the question can ya?

It was Saddam who decided that we should go to war not Bush. All Saddam had to do is comply with the United Nations resolutions and Bush would not of been in the position to enforce the UN mandate.

eyes, that is probably so true! I can see bush throwing a tantrum during a debate with Ahmadinejad and flipping him off.

Saladin

I have a Holocaust survior friend that would have loved to see the your buddy, that denies the holocaust ever happened, get his ass kicked by Bush.

James Ha, you don't even seem to know the difference between Newton's First and Second Laws. Why don't you actually learn some high school physics before attempting to understand these rather unusual events?

There is another forum for the Pentagon strike. I don't bother with that one. It is all too obvious what happened. For example, I have seen photographs of airplane parts buried in the Pentagon wall. With some effort, you could find these as well. In any case, I'll not do it for you.

In my tussle with Robert Novak (see below), I have a new ally: Jon Stewart. Last night he ripped into the crusty conservative columnist,

By David Corn

Corn I thought you were above juvenile name calling? Just goes to show that progressives have small weenies!!

James, This isn't an attempt at debunking, just a point of consideration. You can cut through steel with water if you have sufficient pressure to eject it at a high enough speed.

A press conference on the Medicare Drug bill?

The irony of it all, the vote which was kept open for hours while arms were twisted and the American seniors took it right up the Donut Hole.

It was Saddam who decided that we should go to war not Bush.

Posted by: LBH at September 20, 2006 07:24 PM

Sombody better tell Bush, he was agonizing over the decision in the Rose Garden.

Fungi

I don't care what Bush was agonizing over in the Rose Garden when it was Saddam who did not comply with the UN resolutions that forced us to go to war.

It was Saddams choice to comply or not comply, no one else. End of story.

Good thing Saddam didn't push the button and launch the Nuke-ular missles when he started the war with the USA. Why do you suppose he choose war with the ASA army? That doesn't make sense.

No, I definetly think George Bush decided to go to war with Iraq, not visa versa. There was the concern about Saddam sharing WMD with Al Queda, smoking guns and mushrooms clouds. I distinctly remember the part about the smoking gun and mushroom clouds and I'm sure that it was Bush and Condi Rice, not Saddam saying those things.

DB i do not claim to be smarter than you by any means and i freely admit to not knowing one law from another but i will remind you that it took the top of wtc2 only 10 seconds to collapse (disintegrate) all the way thru 1/4 mile of massive steel - eight tenths of a second longer than it would have taken to fall thru a vacuum of no steel. that could only have happened if the steel were magically unhooked. no amount of beating around the bush on the part of yourself or your physorg pals will change that.
i refer everyone back to @45 where the exalted NIST is shown to be officially avoiding an accounting of their mistake.
-----
eyes_, of course a waterjet can cut thru steel - even a hacksaw can cut thru steel. but i am curious to know the manner in which the alleged ua175 officially cut thru the massive steel columns. @73
because as we all saw on tv and has been recorded for posterity, even the wingtips of alleged ua175 disappeared into the tower without any of it breaking off or even bending out of shape. indeed without even slowing down.

The Bushes & the Truth About Iran

[..]

"The President is said to see himself as being like Winston Churchill, and to believe that the world will only appreciate him after he leaves office; he talks about the Middle East in messianic terms; he is said to have told those close to him that he has got to attack Iran because even if a Republican succeeds him in the White House, he will not have the same freedom of action that Bush enjoys.

"Most recently, someone high in the administration told a reporter that the President believes that he is the only one who can do the right thing with respect to Iran. One thing is clear: a major source of the pressure for a military strike emanates from the very man who will ultimately make the decision over whether to authorize such a strike the President."

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

The worst kind of fool is one that believes his own propaganda.

capt

Good thing Saddam didn't push the button and launch the Nuke-ular missles when he started the war with the USA. Why do you suppose he choose war with the ASA army? That doesn't make sense.

Fungi, focus on the real reason here not Corn talking points. We went to war because Saddam refused to comply with UN resolutions. Who cares if a sicko madman makes sense or not?

OPINION: Brave New World at JHU
by Malcolm A. Kline
September 20, 2006 09:00 AM EST

Johns Hopkins is mostly known as a staid old Baltimore institution famous for the breakthroughs of its medical researchers but the university's alumni magazine shows a campus that is more new age than old guard.

President Bush did speak there, a rarity in an academy that loathes the Republican chief executive, but the appearance did not sit too well with students and alums. "The sheer narcissism, risk-aversion, deference, and partisanship of the event and its report in the magazine betray the intellectual and political standards Johns Hopkins values," Sayres Rudy, a visiting scholar at Amherst College writes. "I know that [the School of Advanced International Studies] SAIS is a policy school, and I am glad that some students there 'signed a memo' that 'respectfully criticized' Bush's foreign policy."

"But it is a disgrace if Johns Hopkins or SAIS is obsequious enough to slave for the president without mentioning publiclyóeven as a minority criticismóthat Iraq 'fell' to illegal and murderous invasion and occupation by a war-criminal administration carrying out a vicious and self-defeating 'war on terror' with equally thuggish allies and uncounted civilian corpses to show for it." Rudy, a 1990 SAIS graduate, may have a better handle on "intellectual and political standard Johns Hopkins values" than the rest of us.

But wouldn't it be interesting to know if Rudy participated in the time-honored SAIS tradition of short sheeting the hotel beds of visiting dignitaries? Believe it or not, the reaction to this prank by former U.S. Secretaries of State breaks down along party lines though not as you might expect: Republican Henry Kissinger thought it was funny, Democrat Madeleine Albright did not.

LINK

We went to war because Saddam refused to comply with UN resolutions.

Posted by: LBH at September 20, 2006 08:00 PM

You are incorrect.

We went to war - according to the (first) official reason given by our President - because Saddam had WMDs and alliances with terrorist organizations and becuase this posed a threat to the US and the world.

The compliance issue was cited as proof that he had WMD to hide, not as the reason for attacking him. His lack of compliance posed no direct threat.

James Ha, absolutely the last time. The FIRST pieces of the building to fall OFF the rest hit the ground about 10 seconds after collapse initiation. The entire 'progressive collapse' took about 14 seconds from start to finish. (I'll admit NIST's latest FAQ is very confusing at this point.)

Now 14 seconds is about the same as free-fall on MARS, where gravity is about 1/3 that on earth. I'll admit this seems very fast, but that is because we rarely have occasion to view such events.

Try to obtain some intuition by web trawling on the pyramid at Meidum and the New World Hotel, hmmm?

TDS responds to the Vampire Demon: Robert Novak

(Special video below) Jon Stewart turned on C-SPAN and was shocked, just shocked I tell you when he unfortunately saw Robert Novak's visage on the Washington Journal

Video-WMP

Video-QT

Stewart: I keep reading these articles that The Daily Show is big among the 115 year old vampire demons, but–∑hy does Robert Novak hate? And why me it's like I publicly revealed some piece of information he didn't want people to know and ruined his career. And then kept asserting it was everybody else's fault but mine.

Why would Novak not like Jon Stewart?

Oh, I almost forgot about this one.And as a treat to all the C&L readers I opened up my wingnut vault to give you the original: "Douchebag of Liberty" segment. While Novak failed to reveal his sources in Plamegate he demanded CBS reveal their sources and for that and that alone.

Video-WMP

Video-QT

Stewart: ..for that Douchebaggery, Robert Novak is hereby awarded the highest civilian honor awarded to douchebags: The congressional medal of douchebag

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

TDS, always the best!

capt

There once was a fellow named Schwartz,
Who knew his wild dagga from worts,
He knew shit from shinola,
And Kool-aid from cola,
And hoped to nail bush in the courts.

Bush answer:
" But he WAS a threat (he-he with smirk) The U.N. and our friends and allies all agreed! Saddam was a theat to the United States. He was a danger. And the world is safer now." Thank you. Next question."

Elizabeth Laporte, a good Federal judge! Buzzflash today re: roadless rules.

#90
Capt,
I watched that one about Novak on CSAN and laughed out loud at Jon Stewart's reaction. So funny.

You guys are probably wondering who is REALLY leading the country.

Papers Show Bush Allies' Inside Access

Republican activists Grover Norquist and Ralph Reed landed more than 100 meetings inside the Bush White House, according to documents released Wednesday that provide the first official accounting of the access and influence the two presidential allies have enjoyed.

The White House released the Secret Service visit records to settle a lawsuit by the Democratic Party and an ethics watchdog group seeking visitors logs for the two GOP strategists and others who emerged as figures in the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal.

...White House officials said Norquist, who runs the nonprofit Americans for Tax Reform, was cleared for 97 visits to the White House complex between 2001 and 2006, including a half-dozen with the president.

Reed, former executive director of the Christian Coalition and an unsuccessful candidate for lieutenant governor in Georgia earlier this year, got 18 meetings, including two events with Bush.

Officials said they believe all appointments with Bush involved larger group settings, such as Christmas parties or policy briefings for GOP supporters.

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said, however, it was possible some of Norquist's meetings might have been directly with Karl Rove, the president's longtime confidant and political strategist.

"He is one of a number of individuals who worked to advance fiscal responsibility, which is one of the key aspects of the president's agenda," Perino said.
------------
Fiscal responsiblity....what a ...

Now how many times did Cindy Sheehan get into see Bush? Gerald you would know the answer to this. She's one of your foxes.

House committee 'flip-flops' on Bush detainee bill

Reversing their prior vote against a terrorist detainee bill supported by the Bush administration (as reported earlier on Raw Story), the House Judiciary Committee has now voted instead to support the bill, a Congressional Quarterly article explains.

"Arm-twisting by top GOP leaders" apparently lead to a change of heart by Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX), who had earlier voted against the bill, and additional votes in favor of the bill by two GOP representatives who were absent from the first tally.

House Majority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) announced the reversal hours after the original vote.
------------
Bastards. I wish the founding fathers were here today. I would love to see them storm the congress.

denied the holocaust ever happened? Now see, that's the kind of idiotic, fact free arm waving a bushbot engages in.

"David." said Bush, "What's wrong with you? I was lying. That's what we do on T.V. Where the hell have you been this last six years? On Mars?"

"I still had a ham sandwich for lunch. And my mother made great pork chops."

Apperently, being "real" jew in Virginia is a liability.

Federal judge overturns Bush plan for roadless forests

Federal judge overturns Bush plan that eased road-building limits in national forests

Oh, please excuse me for repeating myself! 3 cheers for Elizabeth Laporte!

This is a great email from a soldier in iraq. it's long but read the whole thing. it's worth it.

A Marine in Iraq

Received this today from an old Army buddy via a mutual friend who was both a Marine and a CIA ops officer. Seems legit. Points are spot on.

James Ha, absolutely the last time. The FIRST pieces of the building to fall OFF the rest hit the ground about 10 seconds after collapse initiation.

DB you are as full of shit as they come - we can all see with our own eyes that the wtc2 disintegrated entirely and the 9/11 commission report itself says this 'collapse' (disintegration) took place in only 10 seconds. your little distraction from this by referring to mars is pathetic.
100's of 1000's of muslims have been killed and 2 countries are now depleted uranium hell-holes as a direct result of our govt/media insisting that 19 arabs highjacked 4 planes and flew them into 3 landmark buildings. all 4 of these planes have disappeared without a trace with no evidence of their crashing in the manner we a were told and the wtc disintegrated at a speed and in a manner that could only be a result of explosives. the govt/media fought tooth and nail against an investigation of 9/11 and only capitulated public under pressure ftom the victims families. the resukt of this 'investigation' amounted to nothing more than a cover-up and your affiliation as advisor to this foolish website: http://www.jod911.com/ which pretends to dismiss 9/11 conspiracy theories is nothing more than a perpetuation of the cover-up which was begun by the bushco 9/11 commission, continued by the bushco NIST and is now being perpetuated by the likes of your website.

your website is actively involved in suppressing a real investigation into the singular most defining event of our time. an event based on lies for which 1000's of young americans and 100,000's of muslims are perishing in a horrible manner.
you sir are beneath contempt.

David B., Have you had enough yet? I can tell you that from the first time Mr. Ha Ha posted on this site he has been this way. He's certifiable! You simply can't reason with someone who is not capable of reasoned thought! It is a complete and total waste of time to respond to him in any way. It is clear he's missing some vital parts of his brain and there's nothing we can do to help him.

Had enough?

David B., All we can hope is that folks like Mr. Ha Ha are not in a position to harm others or themselves, whether through intent or neglect. I can only wonder what happened to him and at what point in his life the event(s) occurred to have produced the result we see here on this blog. Fascinating, really.

Happy,

You devil...

I had a nightmare experience spanning 3 weeks involving Best Buy customer service. Almost every person (except the supervisors) had Indian accents and bad grammar/vocabulary (they would say "I can *also* help you with this," while not helping me with the original problem; I'd say "Don't you know what 'also' means?!?!?"). Funny because their names (and I wrote them down) were "Mary Ann", "Marvin", "Trish", "Timothy", "Michelle", and the outlier "Cezar". I got so frustrated on the last call with being unable to make my sentences get through to them that my last words were "Go fuck yourself, you cunt. Do you understand?!?!?! Tell your supervisor to translate 'Fuck...yourself...you...cunt.' " I'm usually not quite that vulgar over the phone but that 3-week Bizzaro World experience was too much. Doesn't help that most customer service seems to be turning into this type of experience.

tim i would love to see even the slightest inkling of reason but you and others of your ilk just seem to spout a bunch of nonsense and pretend as if you are taken seriously.
it is sad that there has not been a real investigation into the crime of the new american century but it is sadder still that fools such as yourself accept half-assed explanations for these crimes from the very souls who have profitted the most from them.

Fox's Saudi Prince

With surprisingly little media attention, Saudi Arabia has bought a stake in the company that owns what has been, until now, arguably its most visible and influential critic: the Fox News Network. Will this be the end of Fox’s “fair and balanced” coverage of the immense Saudi role in promoting Islamofascist terror? Or can American viewers rest assured that the royal Saudi buyer, Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, has nothing more nefarious in mind than increasing his already vast fortune?

Jeanne, if I recall correctly prior to her son, Casey, being killed, Cindy met the president once in a group and she was positive toward the Iraq war. Once Casey was killed, she reevaluated her position and the war. Bush's defenders keep recalling that group visit. People can change their minds. I am a recovering Nazi Party member. I was part of the Nazi Party prior to it becoming the Nazi Party.

Lippy's stupid and wrong comment from the last thread...

How fascinating that Alan knows exactly what Ms. Edmonds knows even though she has been under gag order for a long time. He must have ESP as well. She has a website for whistle blowers, maybe it would be more informative to look into it than take the word of someone who couldn't possibly know what she has to say.

Ahh, but I see you don't remember us talking about her piece on 60 Minutes (none of you wackos can remember what you've posted or said before), which was BEFORE she was gagged. You even said you seen it yourself and I distinctly remember you saying that even that published piece of her story is now classified too. She didn't say a thing about 9/11 in that whole piece, and YOU KNOW IT. Well, maybe you don't. See above about not being able to remember from one day to the next what you wacks say or post. haha
You should be glad I take the time to straighten this shyt out for you.

I won't even post a reply to Trippy. He's having LSD flashbacks and dreaming about meth. His comment about the Dr. gave him a relapse. Google the dr. mr trippy, and see how many papers he's had published in peer-reviewed journals.
you silly paranoid boi

skippy is still deluding himself that there is nothing untoward with the fact that 1/4 mile of massive steel columns did not offer any resistance to the top of wtc2 as if fell straight down thru them at the same speed that it would fall the same distance thru thin air.
if your exalted chemist and official govt engineers were honest and above board they would show up at the national 9/11 debate and defend their claims in front of the whole world face to face with the engineers and scientists who say that they are wrong.
but instead they are shuffling their feet and hemming and hawing as they cower in fear of public exposure.

and factchecker, if ever there were islamofascists they are the very same saudibush princes who have just purchased FOX news.

Public Letter to 9/11 Commission Chairman from FBI Whistleblower

State Dept. Quashed 9/11 Links To Global Drug Trade -FBI Whistleblower

Criminal Infiltration: The Mysterious "Semi-Legitimate Organizations"

Ex-FBI Translator Offers Stunning 9/11 Information

Complete 911 Timeline Sibel Edmonds and Related Scandals

ACLU Charges That Government is Abusing "States Secrets Privilege" to Cover Up National Security Blunders, ACLU Says

Sibel Edmonds: Still Silenced, But Why?

The Fake 2004 Bin Laden Video Tape

... because we're expecting the fake 2006 "Get out the GOP vote" Osama any moment now.

Bush evades the issues

NEW YORK - While US President George W Bush's lackluster speech to the United Nations General Assembly dominated US airwaves, half the UN press corps was looking for a more topical subject - where was Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, whose office back home was surrounded by tanks? Due to speak on Wednesday initially, he changed his slot to Tuesday evening, but he did not turn up for the heads-of-state lunch and later canceled his speech.

That was more exciting than the US president's delivery. It was missing some of the snide innuendo and challenge of Bush's previous comments on the United Nations, perhaps reflecting some injection of reality into his unilateral world view. This time, the president also refrained from making ultimatums to the assembled delegations, threatening action if they did not go along with his administration's ideas of what was good for them.

Just before he spoke, the president sent a discreet message to both the United Nations and the US Congress by quietly withholding payments, for the fifth consecutive year, to the UN Fund for Population Activities. The health of hundreds of thousands of women and children will be impaired - and many lives lost - as a result of his pandering to the most prejudiced elements of his conservative constituency, those who see no problems in Wal-Mart building up China's currency reserves but object to the UN's activities in China, which they claim, in the teeth of a complete lack of evidence, help fund abortions.

Bush's message was mainly addressed to the ostensible silent majority of moderates in the Middle East. But his words were as cushioned from the cruelty of the real world as one would expect from a US administration that is making Panglossianism a state religion.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

"making Panglossianism a state religion."

That made me snort.

capt

haha They smacked your latest hero Gordon again...

And as for what gordon thinks or does not think, I have little cause to respect an 'engineer' who doesn't know where the KINETIC ENERGY 'went to' immediately on impact 'if not to heat'. He knows NOW where it went, and how it may be immediately recovered/available to do further damage, because I showed him. So what ELSE in the relevant science/technology area is he MISSING that would take me the rest of my life to bring him up to speed on?

He's YOUR 'Scholar', not mine. Using him as any 'authority' on anything is risky at best. YOU can 'believe' in him; and YOU can 'trust' his version of 'truth', but if I were you, I certainly wouldn't trust my life to anything he designed/constructed.
=======================
I seen his reply also, where he didn't disagree with the Dr's smack down of him, but then turned around and changed his theory using the Dr's new calculations. In other words, the bachelor degreed was wrong, the DR. showed him where, then the bacheolor degreed 'taught' the Dr. with a brand new calculation that says... "I was wrong, but THIS TIME I am right, and that makes you wrong again". hahaha Yeah, right!

5th Former Joint Chiefs Chairman Objects to Bush's Plan To Authorize Torture

Last Thursday, Gen. Colin Powell, a former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, sent a letter to Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) objecting to the President's plan to redefine Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. Powell said Bush's plan would "put our troops at risk."

He was joined by three other former Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs Gen. John Vessey, Gen. John Shalikashvili and Admiral William Crowe. Moments ago, McCain's office announced that a fifth former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Gen. Hugh Shelton, has publically declared his objections. Shelton said Bush's plan "would signal that the U.S. is attempting to water down its obligations and would be an gregious mistake." Watch CNN's report: (at the link)

Transcript:

One of the three leading Republicans who's block being the President's bill, Senator John McCain, told reporters in his words, the two sides were "making progress" and that "good faith efforts" were being made by both sides. But in an effort to keep up the pressure on the White House, Senator McCain's office released yet another letter of support from a former military official, this one from the former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Hugh Shelton, saying, "General Shelton is the fifth former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs who has expressed concern regarding a proposed change in Common Article 3, joining former Secretary of State General Colin Powell, General John Vessey, General John Shalikashvili, and Admiral William Crowe. Former Secretary of State George Schultz voiced his concern yesterday as well."

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

I doubt Bush is capable of listening to anybody or admitting any fault. That is part of his pathology.

capt

Talking Points Memo

It's hard to know where to begin in trying to disentangle the knot of jingoism, recklessness, bad faith and bamboozlement that is President Bush's latest boast that if he had good intelligence on bin Laden's whereabouts he would send US troops into Pakistan to catch him whether the Pakistanis agreed or not.

On Friday he suggested that he wouldn't because "Pakistan is a sovereign nation." And, yes, not invading other countries is a good rule of thumb in most cases, if one this president has tended to honor in the breach. But I think that given the unique history, most presidents and most Americans would be willing to violate another country's sovereignty if they had actionable intelligence that gave a good chance of successfully capturing OBL.

So on nabbing bin Laden in Pakistan it sounds like the president was against it before he was for it. And as Peter Bergen notes, one of the reasons we don't have good actionable intelligence on where bin Laden is is that US troops aren't allowed to operate in Pakistan.

But why debate hypotheticals?

Why do we think President Bush would send troops into Pakistan to get bin Laden without permission when he wouldn't keep troops in Afghanistan (a country then wholly under American occupation) when we had bin Laden cornered at Tora Bora? The Bush-Cheney campaign was able to bamboozle its way through that net in 2004. But all the information that's come up over the last two years has confirmed as tightly as it ever can be confirmed that US intelligence knew bin Laden was at Tora Bora trying to make his escape into Pakistan but that President Bush didn't commit the necessary US manpower to the search because he was shifting priorities and resources to Iraq.

Then, now, before 9/11, it's always been about Iraq. bin Laden was just a way to get in.

-- Josh Marshall

Early start to a Travel-Day! Kansas City (MO), here I come for an OverNighter! The country, and black folks in particular, needs more black GOP leader w/national potentials!

The Battleground is Joined
November cheer for the GOP in Maryland?

BY RUSS SMITH
Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:01 a.m. EDT

BALTIMORE--Maryland has never been much considered, since the term was coined, a "battleground state." Registered Democrats outnumber Republicans by a two-to-one margin, and reliably voted for John Kerry (by 13 percentage points) in 2004 and Al Gore (by 17 percentage points) in 2000. Both Maryland senators are Democrats, as well as six of its eight-member House delegation. Yet the run-up to the Sept. 12 primary was the most frenzied political blitz in recent state history. Improbably, Maryland has emerged as one of the most contested states in the country, featuring very competitive gubernatorial and Senate elections. All this is more improbable still in a year not expected to bring much November cheer to the GOP.

Maryland does have a Republican governor, Robert Ehrlich,......

....But the Maryland race with the more acute national resonance is for the Senate seat vacated by the retiring Democrat Paul Sarbanes, with attention focused on current Lt. Gov. Michael Steele......he's currently several points behind in the polling--he'd be the first African-American senator from Maryland, and only the sixth in Senate history. That possibility sticks in the collective craw of local Democrats, who don't like Mr. Steele's cultural conservatism, for one, and are petrified, for two, that the next Barack Obama could be a Republican.[emphasis mine]

In the primary, Democratic voters did have the opportunity to nominate their own black candidate, Kweisi Mfume, a charismatic former congressman and NAACP president, but chose instead U.S. Rep. Ben Cardin by a close margin. Mr. Cardin, a 20-year House veteran whose studious demeanor resembles that of Mr. Sarbanes, was backed by the Democratic establishment, as well as the Post and the Sun, an "anointment" that caused no small resentment among Mr. Mfume's impassioned supporters. Had Mr. Mfume prevailed and faced off against Mr. Steele, it would've guaranteed a history-making precedent.

In any case, although Mr. Cardin's camp scoffs at the notion, Mr. Steele has the potential to capture a sizable percentage of Maryland's black voters, many of whom feel taken for granted by the Democrats. The lieutenant governor, raised by his mother in a dangerous Washington neighborhood and a graduate of Johns Hopkins, appeals to church-going citizens who share his opposition to abortion and gay marriage, if not necessarily his erstwhile support for George Bush's foreign policy.

......Mr. Mfume told reporters that "Mike Steele's a great guy," even though their political platforms are polar opposites. In late August, Mr. Steele was feted at a fundraiser hosted by hip-hop impresario Russell Simmons, who almost always reserves his endorsements for Democrats. Mr. Steele's emphasis on black empowerment and entrepreneurship, evidently, cuts across political lines.

Mr. Cardin--whose campaign war-chest was fairly depleted by his primary race--has not begun a general election television campaign, but Mr. Steele has......

.....with the uncertain African-American vote, 29% of the population......Mr. Steele has a clear shot. The Democrats are--and ought to be--very nervous......

Mr. Smith, a Baltimore writer, has founded weekly newspapers in Baltimore, Washington and Manhattan.
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Blacks are taken for granted by the Dems just as right-wing Conservatives are by the GOP. The difference is that Conservatives have more influenc through both the pocketbook and thier votes while most blacks have just their votes! So, I ask, why do blacks vote in such herd-like manner instead of being more judicious?

Matthews: ‘I Have Been…Against This Bullshit War From The Beginning’

This morning on Imus, MSNBC’s Chris Matthews blasted the media for not covering the Iraq war. Matthews said that while people are still fighting and dying the Iraq, war “has been taken off television, and Bush must love it.”

Matthews said that most of the media was sold a bill of goods by the Bush administration, but that he’s been “a voice out there against this bullshit war from the beginning.” He added that Cheney was “totally wrong” about Iraq but still “talks like God on television, and we are supposed to believe every word.”

MATTHEWS: It is like we are at war — we have killed 15,000 people that died over there in that war, we still get guys knocked off every couple of days, a couple more guys are killed — and yet it is not on the tube. It’s like, are we bored with the war now? Is that the new thing? We don’t