David Corn Online
 

July 03, 2006

Why Hillary Ought To Be Watching Joe

From my ""Capital Games" column at www.thenation.com....

Here's something that Hillary Clinton should care about: Senator Joe Lieberman today announced that if he is defeated in the August 8 Democratic Party primary he will run as an independent to seek his Senate seat.

Why should HRC care? Lieberman is being challenged in Connecticut by Ned Lamont, an antiwar multimillionaire Democrat whose campaign is based almost entirely on his complaint that Lieberman has been a cheerleader for George W. Bush's war in Iraq. While Lieberman is ahead in the polls, Lamont has narrowed the gap to the point that it is conceivable that Lamont could topple the incumbent. But, as Lieberman said on Monday, that will not keep him out of the race, for he will start to collect the 7500 signatures he needs to run as an independent. Lieberman had to make that decision now; the filing deadline for independent candidates is the day after the Democratic primary. Lieberman could not wait to see what happened in the primary before preparing to run as an independent.

Is this a sign that Lieberman fears he will lose? Maybe not. But is a sign that Lieberman is not willing to risk losing. And he will have to bear a political cost for crafting this two-track strategy. Lieberman's announcement will probably not help him among Democratic primary voters. He is essentially saying that if the party choses someone else to be its senatorial nominee, he will work to defeat that candidate. That's not showing much party loyalty--and it's possible some Democrats in the Nutmeg State will take exception to his threat.

But back to Hillary. This primary race is--or should be--important to her and other Democrats because it shows how the war can split the party. And that could become the dominant theme of the 2008 race for the Democratic presidential nomination. If the war in Iraq remains a mess a year-and-a-half from now, the Democratic presidential primary will be all about what to do in Iraq. Many Democratic primary voters will be looking for an antiwar, pro-withdrawal candidate (Senator Russ Feingold?) and reluctant to vote for any candidate who has supported the war and stood by it (as has Hillary Clinton). Clinton will certainly have the deepest pockets of any of the candidates--and money usually beats all else (though that didn't work for Howard Dean in 2004). But if Hillary Clinton is on the wrong side of the war (as far as most Democratic primary voters are concerned), the race will be a bitter and divisive one.

Clinton has not cozied up to Bush the way Lieberman has on the war. She has tried to have it both ways by criticizing the execution of the war but not the mission. Such nuance--or hedging--may get her through the nomination process. But, then again, it might not--if there are enough Democrats PO'ed about the war and her support for it. So the junior senator from New York will be paying close attention to what happens next door in Connecticut. The outcome of this contest may be as important for the future of the Democratic Party as any race in November.

Posted by David Corn at July 3, 2006 02:52 PM

Comments

1

Lieberman ain't fooling anybody. He should just go on and change parties to repug. I still can't believe Gore chose him for a running mate. ugh!

Posted by: Alan at July 3, 2006 03:07 PM

2

Dear Mr. Corn,

This issue came to the fore yesterday on Meet the Press. When Tim Russert asked Sen. Schummer (sp?) who he would support in the Connecticut primary, he was quite terse. He finally said he absolutely supported Lierberman, when pressed by Russert. He would only say mostly, however, that he supported the Democratic primary winner. He was actually giving several answers at once and confused the whole issue.

This shows though, the obsessive fear all incumbents have of losing their power. So, in turn, they must support all other incumbents. Unfortunately, support or lack of for the occupation did not come up in connection with the Connecticut primary.

My sister lives in Connecticut and says support for Ned Lamont seemed strong. She runs in liberal circles though.

Ms. Clinton's whole campaign is run on ambiguity. Yes, she has money. I still think because of this ambiguity, she will not be nominated.

Posted by: Carey at July 3, 2006 03:16 PM

3

Alan,

Gore's choice was hard to believe, even at the time.


Lieberman made a serious mistake announcing he would run as an Independent. He's been threatening this for weeks.

After running as a Democratic vice-presidential candidate, this looks particularly bad.

Posted by: Carey at July 3, 2006 03:26 PM

4

Mr. David Corn,

I think you nailed it. Although I am shy about any one race in any one place being projected. I hope Ned waxes Joe and sends him packing.

HRC has staked out her place and as you wrote money is the deal. How sad is that in the larger scheme of things?

I still say the neocons will sweep the midterms. They (and even you) will have a million, maybe a billion reasons why but the truth will be how effectively the Diebolds and ES&S's can continue to hide behind "proprietary" and secret processes.

That and the fact that most potential voters will again choose to disenfranchise themselves from the process. UGH!


Thanks for all of your work!

Kirk

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 03:26 PM

5

Lieberman fights for political life

The leafy streets of New Haven are an unlikely venue for Democratic in-fighting over Iraq, that might see one of its best-known senators effectively ousted from the party in a few weeks' time.

Senator Joe Lieberman has been representing Connecticut for 18 years now in Washington, and aside from almost snatching the vice-presidency in 2000 as Al Gore's running-mate, he also ran for president in 2004.

But after years of supporting President George W Bush's war policy, and scolding fellow Democrats who question it, he now faces a backlash from local anti-war activists and liberal bloggers all over the country.

In May, a little-known millionaire cable television executive, Ned Lamont, won the right to challenge Lieberman for the Democrat nomination, in a special state primary election on 8 August.

More HERE

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Interesting the take from across the pond.

capt

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 03:28 PM

6

Cut and Run Joe Lieberman

Joe Lieberman ducks into his car angry after reporters start asking him about the polling numbers.

Video -QT Video-WMP later

More HERE

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I think Joe is history and I hope HRC figures out she too is a done deal.

capt

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 03:32 PM

7

lieberman would dare seek the dem nomination? ha - punk-ass. he will fail and knows it and will then taint independents independence with his blatant neocon BS? - move over zell miller, there's a new dem repug in town!

Posted by: spy on this! at July 3, 2006 03:46 PM

8


The voters face a difficult choice in November, to vote for Democrats who are "soft" on national defense, or Republicans who have proven themselves incompetent in such matters.


Bob in North Dakota


Posted by: Bob in North Dakota at July 3, 2006 04:04 PM

9

Hillary may get the Democrat nomination for President but she will never win. Gore would stand a better chance than Hillary.

Posted by: emmerson at July 3, 2006 04:11 PM

10

Hey Spy....
I agree with you on your last post on the previous thread. That group from Powerline etc. do probably try to undermine legitimate dialogue and the people who try to be the most honest. They are a source the repugs go to to smear the week's new enemy. I think they are now seen for what they truly are....REPULSIVE.

Posted by: Jeanne at July 3, 2006 04:12 PM

11

PREVIOUS THREAD

#158 Gerald

Very informative post on the crimes of the Bush dynasty. It's always good to remind oneself of their deeds.

MICKI

Always love your comments. But your jokes, as Jeanne said, you've killed me. Still, in this heat they did me good.


As always--Micki, O'Reilly, Jeanne--I enjoyed your comments on the New Orleans looting. One thing also to remember was the heat--it was horrendous. Heat makes people do stupid things.

THIS THREAD:

Capt.

Lawrence O'Donnell said the same thing about a probable Republican victory this November on The Mcglaughlin Group. The heat's been so bad here, I actually watched that show!


The speculation is that Rove will turn the SCOTUS decision around to Republican advantage by pulling out his "Democrats have a pre-9/11 frame of mind" tactic, that they're soft on terrorists. He'll empahsize that the decision said not a thing about the conditions at Guantanamo, which, in effect, really shows that the court's behind the administration's treatment of all of these bad guys. "See, we'll protect Americans, we know how to do it."

Unfortunately Congress will back the administration on the SCOTUS decision by simply passing legislation to legitimize military tribunals.

Still, I harbor Jeanne's hope in the end. The people just may finally stand up. Certainly, the majority of newspapers' editorials on the decision were negative towards Bush's administration and their abuse of the rule of law.


Posted by: Carey at July 3, 2006 04:18 PM

12

#9 emmerson has it right!!!

Joe Lapdog Lieberman will win the primary and go on to be reelected.

The Dems are a divided party. I have serious doubts that the Dems want someone elected president in 2008.

Who in their right mind would want to lead our devil incarnate nation? The path we are on is leading us directly to hell.

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 04:20 PM

13

As for Hillary.
I can't take her seriously.

If you're going to sit on the fence I can't tell which pasture you own. Give me a clue, Ms. Clinton. Politics is about taking a stand. Enough of this checking to see which way the wind blows. If you lose, you lose. Amen.

Another thing. She is thought of as a leader and has been considered a leader from the day she said she was running for the senate seat in NY. She was lucky to have that consideration. She needs to start using the strength of her role to have an impact on politics.

Posted by: Jeanne at July 3, 2006 04:20 PM

14

A person standing in the middle of the road may well be hit by cars going in different directions.

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 04:27 PM

15

#14
It really is a losing situation. Maybe she doesn't want the job. I mean...jeez how would you like Clinton looking over your shoulder all the time saying..."Are you sure...ok ok I'm staying out of it."
or
"Really, this time I'm just going to keep my mouth shut."
or
"Ok, can I just say one thing?"

"BILL, find a Tsunami."

Posted by: Jeanne at July 3, 2006 04:36 PM

16

Corporations Aren't People

As we celebrate the Fourth, isn't it time to think about spreading some democracy here at home? Here's a not-so-modest proposal to start: abolish the concept of corporate 'personhood.'


Largely lost amid last week's Supreme Court rulings limiting President Bush's imperial powers and upholding Texas Republicans' 2003 gerrymandering was a decision that put the kibosh on Vermont's campaign finance and spending laws -- the strictest in the nation by far.

The justices, in a 6-3 decision, ruled that the limits were unconstitutional according to the standard set out in the landmark 1976 case, Buckley v. Valeo, which held that spending millions of dollars to get elected is a protected form of political speech.

The ruling itself was hardly earth shattering; Vermont's spending limits may well have been too onerous and even some of the liberal justices expressed concern that the tight caps gave incumbents an unfair advantage. The court largely maintained the legal status quo around an issue that's long been the subject of heated debate.

But the decision reveals yet again how deeply entrenched the role of big money is in the American political system. Over the last 150 years, bizarre legal doctrines have developed that have effectively codified the power of special interests. In addition to the idea in Buckley that 'money equals speech,' we've been saddled with the Orwellian concept of "corporate personhood."

More HERE

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I think the corporate ownership of the political process is too entrenched institutionally to be extracted. We empowered the politicians to empower themselves and they sold that power to gain the money necessary to keep their position.


capt

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 04:53 PM

17

Carey, Americans have short memories and our politicians know it. That is why we have to go back and remind the Americans of the Bush dynasty and their evil ways.

Jeanne, we will have give Hillary a close watch before she gets our vote. Bill and his presidency needs to also be looked at closely. The problem we have is that all our politicians are bought out by the lobbyists.

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 05:07 PM

18

The bed-wetters of the right have become parodies of themselves

It would be funny if it werenÕ´ so scary


A few weeks ago, I followed a link to a site called David Brooks is Smart to read his silly column about how DailKos founder Marcos Moulitsas has some strange mind-control powers with which he enforces a rigid discipline on the left blogosphere -- or whatever.

When I saw "From the tiny mind of David Brooks" in the "about this blog" section, I knew it was a parody site. I read the column and had a chuckle, and then I had a friend who has Times Select send me the real column.

Lo and behold, it turned out that it had been the real column after all -- it was the same.

The right has become so paranoid Ñ and often so filled with mindless hatred and bigotry Ñ that, quite frankly, it's pretty much impossible to differentiate between real "conservatives" and the many wingnut parodies that have sprung up around the internet. Maybe the parody sites should close up shop.

Seriously, when She Who Will Not Be Named On These Pages says she wishes women had never gotten the vote or prattles on about how Canada sent troops to Vietnam, and a bozo radio host who regularly appears on Fox News says she'd "have no problem with [NYT Editor Bill Keller] being sent to the gas chamber," what's the point of parody?

More HERE

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I have heard the same thing from some here. The wingnut-o-sphere has become a parody of itself. That is why the Colbert Report and TDS are actually serious news, serious enough to toy with the truth a little. The MSM news have no use for the truth unless it can be translated into dollars.


capt

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 05:11 PM

19

Corporations and Persons

I watched Television Ontario (TVO). The program title was "The Corporation - The Pathology of Commerce." The program mentioned that the Supreme Court ruled that a corporation is a person than surely a person is a person. The program highlighted a checklist for mental disorders. Since a corporation can be considered a person, the mental disorder checklist can be applied.

Here is the checklist.
1. Callousness toward people
2. Impersonal relationships with people
3. Disregard for the safety of others
4. Deceitfulness
5. Incapacity to experience guilt
6. Failure to comply toward social norms to benefit people

From the checklist corporations displayed a psychopathic mental disorder. If we use the same checklist for our two highest leaders, then we would have to conclude that george w. bush and dick cheney display the same mental disorder. It would be my perception that the above two men are unfit to be president and vice-president, respectively. They hold too much power for men who have a possible mental disorder.

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 05:13 PM

20

Ya! he he he. Dude, I think Gore should run a third time. he he he. Dude, the odds are with him a third time. he he he.

Posted by: Butt Head at July 3, 2006 05:38 PM

21

Fallon Newspaper Endorses Nevada Marijuana Initiative

RENO, Nev. (AP) A newspaper in rural northern Nevada has given a surprising endorsement to a ballot measure to decriminalize adult possession of limited amounts of marijuana through regulation and taxation.

"In a state where prostitution is legal in certain counties, bars are not required to close and children can legally possess and use tobacco, objections to marijuana legalization on a moral basis seem hypocritical," the Lahontan Valley News and Fallon Eagle Standard said in a Tuesday editorial.

"Those who view marijuana as a blight on society have yet to offer an effective solution of how to stop its spread through society or better fund law enforcement. Continuation of the ill-funded, halfhearted campaigns of the past is little more than veiled acceptance of its current widespread and illegal use."

State Sen. Mike McGinness, R-Fallon, said he was surprised by newspaper's support for the Nov. 7 ballot question.

"It surprised me that a rural newspaper would do that," he said, noting northern Nevada's typical conservative political leanings.

But Eric Herzik, a political science professor at the University of Nevada, Reno, said rural Nevada often shows its independent backbone.

"I wouldn't have predicted it, but it's not one where I'm shocked," he said.

"Rural Nevada, while often thought to be conservative, is often more libertarian. They don't like government intervention," Herzik said.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Who the heck LIKES government intervention?


capt

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 05:43 PM

22

David:

LBH...(Let's Be Honest)! It ISN'T just "Hillary Ought To Be Watching Joe"....Everyone interested in US politics is watching...and you well know that inlcudes YOU and I!

You do recall my New Year's prediction on Joe? Joes' announcing his potential `Independence' on this July 3/4 is poetic!!!!

For my money, the Far Left can kid itself all it wants to, but Al Gore got so close in 2000 BECAUSE of Joe Liberman who provided the maturity that Gore lacked...and still LACKS in so many ways!

I agree w/your "Lieberman....is essentially saying that if the party choses someone else to be its senatorial nominee, he will work to defeat that candidate."

Perhaps you shouldn't have thrown the below-the-belt line: "That's not showing much party loyalty--"

There is an important concept called `Cause and Effect'...Do you think Ned is howing much "party loyalty"? How about the Far Lefties working against a nationally popular 3-term Senator?

Since I don't expect "the war in Iraq (to) remains a mess a year-and-a-half from now", I won't comment on HRC's possible complications...

IMO, the Dems' lack of a unified position on Iraq (& the War on Terror) has been the biggest saving grace for the Right and may again be the deciding factor this November! Why the Left can't support the War and focus on doemstic agendas is something that just continues to amaze!
=============================================
micki:

Happy 4th!

Posted by: Happy Indie Day at July 3, 2006 05:44 PM

23

A parody of themselves!


HA!

capt

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 05:46 PM

24

Bush Directed Cheney To Counter War Critic

President Bush told the special prosecutor in the CIA leak case that he directed Vice President Dick Cheney to personally lead an effort to counter allegations made by former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV that his administration had misrepresented intelligence information to make the case to go to war with Iraq, according to people familiar with the president's statement.

Bush also told federal prosecutors during his June 24, 2004, interview in the Oval Office that he had directed Cheney, as part of that broader effort, to disclose highly classified intelligence information that would not only defend his administration but also discredit Wilson, the sources said.

But Bush told investigators that he was unaware that Cheney had directed I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the vice president's chief of staff, to covertly leak the classified information to the media instead of releasing it to the public after undergoing the formal governmental declassification processes.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

The slime machine starts at the very top, eh?

How any thinking person could support this criminal WH is beyond me. The do anything without any concern for the consequences. Thugs and slugs have hijacked our country. They will steal the next and following elections.

capt

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 05:56 PM

25

#18
David Brooks is smart??????

Posted by: Jeanne at July 3, 2006 05:58 PM

26

A Life Falls Apart

Sad, very sad!!!

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 06:01 PM

27

I won't vote for any candidate of any party that doesn't have a plan to withdraw from Iraq.

Pretty simple, no?

Posted by: Don at July 3, 2006 06:04 PM

28

#24 capt, good post!!!

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 06:08 PM

29

"The voters face a difficult choice in November, to vote for Democrats who are 'soft' on national defense, or Republicans who have proven themselves incompetent in such matters."

Bob in North Dakota @ # 8

Bob, that may be the most terse, most succinct, most profound, most spot-on analysis of the American voting populace I have read in the last several years. Kudos.

Posted by: factchecker at July 3, 2006 06:09 PM

30

#27 Don, my question is will there be a 2008 election? I don't believe that there will be a 2008 election.

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 06:15 PM

31

Re #19: Gerald, what a good idea! Push this hard. We'll need to set up psycho wards for mentally ill corporations, of course. Wonder what those will look like? Somehow padded cells doesn't seem quite right...

Posted by: David B. Benson at July 3, 2006 06:17 PM

32

Britons see US as vulgar empire builder

Britons have never had such a low opinion of the leadership of the United States, a YouGov poll shows.

As Americans prepare to celebrate the 230th anniversary of their independence tomorrow, the poll found that only 12 per cent of Britons trust them to act wisely on the global stage. This is half the number who had faith in the Vietnam-scarred White House of 1975.

Most Britons see America as a cruel, vulgar, arrogant society, riven by class and racism, crime-ridden, obsessed with money and led by an incompetent hypocrite.

American troops are failing either to win "hearts and minds" in Iraq or bring democracy to that country.

More than two-thirds who offered an opinion said America is essentially an imperial power seeking world domination. And 81 per cent of those who took a view said President George W Bush hypocritically championed democracy as a cover for the pursuit of American self-interests.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Thank the current corrupt criminal enterprise.

"Wars teach us not to love our enemies, but to hate our allies." ~ W. L. George

capt

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 06:17 PM

33

#26
That is very sad, Gerald.

Posted by: Jeanne at July 3, 2006 06:19 PM

34

There was no election in 2000 or 2004, why would 2006 or 2008 be any different?


capt

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 06:19 PM

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 06:23 PM

36

And this whole effin mess in Iraq is because Baseball boy Bush could tell a Curveball from a slider?

Tens of thousands killed and no end in sight?

capt

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 06:26 PM

37

Couldn't tell a Curveball from a slider?

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 06:27 PM

38

"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace." ~ Thomas Mann (1875 - 1955)

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 06:28 PM

39

#31 David B. Benson, people working for a corporation will have to have a padded work station (office or assembly line).

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 06:28 PM

40

#38
Capt,
He couldn't even find the field unless it had oil on it.

Posted by: Jeanne at July 3, 2006 06:29 PM

41

America's Increasing Democracy Deficit

America used to call Bush's style of government by another nameÑautocracy.


In the post-World War II period, America was seen by many as the "City on the Hill," an imperfect yet nonetheless shining beacon of government of, by, and for the people. But President George W. Bush's harsh criticisms of the New York Times and other media outlets for their reporting on covert and potentially illegal spying programs underscores once again the degree to which a major crack has appeared in America's democratic edifice.

The Bush administration's reasoning is founded on a twisted form of Catch-22 logic. It goes something like this:

1. This war on terrorism is our new Cold War, and it will last a generation or two.

2. Because we are at war it is necessary to engage in certain behaviorsÑrenditions, torture, domestic surveillance, secret prisons.

3. We cannot tell you what we are doing because it will compromise national security during a time of war.

4. The courts cannot review what we are doing because it will compromise national security during a time of war.

5. Any newspaper reporter or news outlet that reports a leak of these programs can be put under oath and forced to reveal sources, under threat of going to jail for contempt.

6. Only select members of Congress can know. But they cannot tell anyone because it will compromise national security.

7. When Congress passes laws, the president has the right to ignore them if he believes they infringe upon his war powers or his role as Commander in Chief.

8. The courts cannot review the president's decision in Rule no. 7 because it would compromise national security.

Taken in their totality, these eight rules amount to an end-run around the Constitution. By the time one reaches the final rule, you realize how fragile American democracy has become. President George W. Bush has yet to exercise a single veto, the only president in modern history never to do so, because he doesn't need toÑhe simply ignores any congressional laws he doesn't like.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

So much BS and there are still some hold-outs that continue to support the neocon agenda? What kind of nimrod wants a dictator?

capt

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 06:33 PM

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 06:38 PM

43

#41, a nation of nimrods!!!

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 06:39 PM

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 06:44 PM

45

Worldwide Markets at Crossroads

"The trouble with most people is that they think with their hopes or fears or wishes rather than with their minds." - William James "Will" Durant

The financial markets worldwide are at major crossroads. I do believe weÕre on the threshold of social, economic and political changes that only happen once every few centuries. The impact is likely to go beyond most bearish assessments in both scope and time. The very fact that most financial institutions and mainstream media donÕt share such a view is actually supportive, as history has demonstrated most of civilization was caught unprepared at key points of history. The next 5 to 10 years is going to be one of those key points.

With regard to the financial markets, thereÕs a gigantic monster whose actions are about to rock the financial world like never before. Move over boogeyman and say hello to Mr. Hedgefunds. No matter at what area of the markets you look, the footprint of the behemoth is evident. For now, most arenÕt complaining as their slash-and-burn way of investing has been overall beneficial to the "DonÕt Worry, Be Happy" crowdÕs way of thinking. But I believe weÕre about to see the monster exposed and what weÕll find is widespread misdeeds and over-leveraging unlike anything ever seen or imaginable on Wall Street. Stay Tuned.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

I think this guy is at least half correct. At that measure there could be some big changes coming.

capt

Gerald - Touche' !

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 06:45 PM

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 06:49 PM

47

Breaking the Ten Commandments puts a person's soul in grave peril of eternal damnation.

Mortal Sins

Dear Cornposters:

Nazi America has accepted and embraced bushianity. Bushianity is a religion founded on eight pillars of faith. Let us look at these eight pillars of faith.

1. Hatred is a mortal sin.
2. Murders are mortal sins.
3. Torture is a mortal sin.
4. War crimes are mortal sins.
5. Corruption is a mortal sin.
6. Decadence is a mortal sin.
7. Greed is a mortal sin.
8. Lies are mortal sins.

Nazi America is a nation inundated with mortal sins. Mortal sins are damning our devil incarnate nation.

Sincerely,

Gerald

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 06:55 PM

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 06:59 PM

49

No wonder Soldier Miller fell apart

We would all fall apart!!!

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 07:09 PM

50

I have loyalties that are greater than those to my party.
-- Joe Lieberman

Posted by: spy on this! at July 3, 2006 07:10 PM

51

It has been said that children suffer from the sins of their fathers. I want to say that Nazi Americans are and will be suffering from the sins of their Nazi ruler.

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 07:16 PM

52

Doctors Say Man's Brain Rewired Itself

This is totally interesting. This guy's tiny nerve connections grew back after he had been in a semi-conscious state for 20 years.

The doctors say, however, that this still doesn't give much hope for others who suffer traumatic brain injuries. It's a highly unusual case.

Posted by: Carey at July 3, 2006 07:21 PM

53

#50 Spy

What a complete ass Lieberman is.

Posted by: Carey at July 3, 2006 07:22 PM

54

Hillary has not passed the Gerald test

Hillary to me is an extention of the Nazis in power.

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 07:25 PM

55

#52 Carey, thank God at least for one unusual case.

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 07:29 PM

56

I want to wish all the Cornposters a safe and an enjoyable 4th. Please take a few minutes during the day to pray for our soldiers in harm's way around the world.

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 07:37 PM

57

May God bless an America that loves and has mercy and pursues policies of justice and peace for the common good in America and around the world.

Posted by: Gerald at July 3, 2006 07:46 PM

58

"A new fascism promises security from the terror of crime. All that is required is that we take away the criminals' rights -- which, of course, are our own. Out of our desperation and fear we begin to feel a sense of security from the new totalitarian state." -- Gerry Spence Lawyer and author
Source: Give Me Liberty, 1998

=
"The whole drift of our law is toward the absolute prohibition of all ideas that diverge in the slightest form from the accepted platitudes, and behind that drift of law there is a far more potent force of growing custom, and under that custom there is a natural philosophy which erects conformity into the noblest of virtues and the free functioning of personality into a capital crime against society."-- H. L. Mencken (1880-1956) American Journalist, Editor, Essayist, Linguist, Lexicographer, and Critic Source: quoted in New York Times Magazine, 9 August 1964

=
"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country." Theodore Roosevelt

===
Thanks ICH Newsletter!

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 08:18 PM

59

Clinton and Lieberman should both be drawn and quartered as traitors. BTW, where exactly do Liebermans loyalties lie? 3 guesses, and the first two don't count.

Posted by: RedAlert at July 3, 2006 08:22 PM

60

Regarding corporations...

Google V. Evil

From Wired magazine, January, 2003...

Can a corporation go public and maintain a moral compass?

Posted by: micki at July 3, 2006 08:36 PM

61

Power and the press

This orchestrated campaign also conveniently diverts attention from some of the administration's many bungles in Iraq and elsewhere as we head into an important congressional election. The Republicans, this lame line goes, are the most patriotic and anyone who disputes that is suspect, if not traitorous.

But there is also such a thing as being a traitor to the Constitution, and of that they might be guilty. While U.S. security is threatened today by small groups of terrorists, the nation is not threatened as it was during World War II and the Civil War, when the press almost always agreed to requests not to publish strategic material. What we have today is an entirely new situation Ñ one that could last for years Ñ and new rules should be agreed upon to deal with it. The key phrase is agreed upon.

Are we to give the president and his administration almost unlimited authority indefinitely? That's what Mr. Bush seems to be demanding, and The Times evidently disagrees. So do we.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Traitors in our highest offices first. The crimes of the misadministration dwarf any crimes by any other politician.

capt

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 08:38 PM

62

Profit at any and all cost is sociopathic at minimum. Sociopaths have no moral compass - just consider what the trolls post?


HA!

capt

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 08:39 PM

63

Earning nation's disapproval -- and a raise

WASHINGTON -- In last week's issue of Time magazine, retired Maj. Gen. Robert Scales makes a powerful argument against a constitutional amendment banning the burning of the American flag, which he regards as a silly political distraction.
His pithy advice to the Senate, which rejected the amendment by one vote: "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing. Otherwise, you die."

The "main thing" should be protecting national security, but the Republican congressional majority has politicized the issue beyond reasonable recognition in pursuit of a different thing -- re-election this fall.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

The feckless might actually believe flag burning, gay marriage and immigration are the real problems we face. What happened to common sense?

capt

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 08:47 PM

64

SPP End Of USA. Oh, By The Way, Happy "4th Of July," Formerly Known As "Independence Day."

Disclaimer: The following material is solely intended for independent thinking, liberty loving American patriots only. Some material may be deemed unsuitable for Bush apologists, GOP lemmings, "free traders" and one-world-order globalists. Reader discretion is advised.

I almost gagged the other day, when I heard the tail end of a radio broadcast, in which President Bush was addressing our troops, and making a connection between their sacrifice and our nationÕ³ upcoming "Independence Day, " now relinquished to simply "The 4th Of July." My near gastric disruption was not because of President BushÕ³ war policies regarding Iraq and Afghanistan. Those policies are among the few in his agenda of which I actually concur and support. As for our troops, I support them very much, and more so than our so-called "mainstream" press and media, although that probably isnÕ´ saying much. The crux of my agitation was that this President, of all people, had the unmitigated gall to invoke the birth of our nationÕ³ founding and hard-fought independence after his betrayal to our nation and to our independence, a betrayal that took place on March 23, 2005 in Waco, Texas.

I am referring to the "SPP," or "Security and Prosperity Partnership," colloquially referred to as "the North American Union." Globally speaking, does any variation of that otherwise innocuously sounding phrase sound at all familiar? It should. Socialism, via the globalist agenda, much like what now exists in Europe, has reared itÕ³ ugly head, and has officially found itÕ³ way to a continent near you.

President Bush entered into the SPP agreement with Canada and Mexico in his 2005 Waco summit. This was also the time he dubbed the Minutemen "vigilantes." His recent trip to Cancun was a follow-up to the 2005 summit, which in effect, creates an expanded free enterprise zone with the US, Canada, and Mexico, provides for military defense for our two continental neighbors, and waters down, if not eliminates our once sovereign Constitution as we know it. Maybe "red, white, and blue" symbolizes American patriotism, but "seeing red, feeling blue, and looking white as a sheet" is not what I had in mind, and to any patriotic American, those feelings are exactly what this outright and outrageous sedition should cause.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

An interesting take.

capt

Posted by: capt at July 3, 2006 08:54 PM

65

The Lieberman `story' is important enough to warrant some copy-n-paste:

Monday, July 03, 2006
Associated Press

.....Lieberman said....he plans to remain a part of the Senate's Democratic caucus if re-elected.... "I will stay a Democrat, whether I am the Democratic Party's nominee or a petitioning Democratic candidate on the November ballot,".

......Unaffiliated voters are the state's largest voting bloc, followed by Democrats and Republicans.......if Lieberman runs an unaffiliated campaign, he would win with 56 percent of the vote, compared with 18 percent for Lamont.....

Lieberman said he wants to take his case to the entire state should he lose the primary.
===============================================
Seems Lieberman is EXTREMELY loyal to the Dem party.

56% for Joe vs. Ned's 18%!!! Why is Lamont running w/NO chance to win in November? Why the Anti-War Left insists on putting themselvs in a corner dreaming impossible dreams?

My prediction/wish was for Joe to become an Independent; not some `Loophole' "Petitioning Democrat"!

Come on, Netroots, you've got more work to do to drive Joe out of the Dem Party! Happy OUT!

Posted by: Happy says Joe Overdosed on Loyalty at July 3, 2006 09:16 PM

Posted by: spy on this! at July 3, 2006 09:54 PM

67

Resistance Mounts to U.S. Trade Overtures
Talks Stall in Geneva as Developing Nations Rise Up Against Foreign Competition

The gathering was supposed to produce a detailed blueprint that would lead to the completion late this year of the Doha round of talks, which are aimed at lowering barriers to commerce among the 149 member nations of the World Trade Organization. Instead, the breakdown laid bare the strong resistance among many, and perhaps most, of the WTO's members to the sort of market-opening measures that the Bush administration and its free-trade allies envisioned when the round was launched in 2001.

Most striking was the defiance expressed by trade ministers from developing countries at a news conference after the meeting had ended with virtually no movement in long-held negotiating positions.

One after another, Latin Americans, Africans and Asians on the podium pointed out that the talks had been proclaimed a "development round," with the interests of nations like theirs supposedly paramount. They asserted that the biggest concessions must come from rich countries and that they had no intention of exposing vulnerable groups, such as subsistence farmers, to the chill winds of foreign competition. Accordingly, they said, they must retain extensive rights to exempt "special" and "sensitive" products from tariff cuts.

-------------

This is a very healthy development.

Posted by: Jeanne at July 3, 2006 10:32 PM

68

#66 Spy on this!...my daughters have underwear that declares, "the only bush I trust is my own."

Posted by: anonymom at July 3, 2006 10:33 PM

Posted by: caroline at July 3, 2006 11:11 PM

70

David (& All Cornposters, Friends or Foes):

At this point, I am taking myself out of regular circulation. * * * When there are truly major developments , I may drop in for a visit.....otherwise, Happy will forswear off your run of the mill "he said, she said...", XYZ-gate, petty political corruptions, etc.....

Posted by: Happy gets on the Wagon at June 24, 2006 05:37 PM

What was the 'truly major development' I missed? Surely, a David Corn post on HRC is not a truly major development. I cannot believe I missed the day's truly major development.

Posted by: Happy Too at July 3, 2006 11:12 PM

71

Here we go again.

Stealing it in Front of Your eyes

On the ground in Mexico City, our news team reports accusations from inside the Obrador campaign that operatives of the PAN had access to voter files which are supposed to be the sole property of the nation's electoral commission.

We are not surprised.

This past Friday, we reported that the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation had obtained Mexico's voter files under a secret "counterterrorism" contract with database company ChoicePoint of Alpharetta, Georgia.
.........
Safe 4th all.

Posted by: Andrea at July 3, 2006 11:16 PM

72

Who do Happy and Sanctimonous Joe have in common?

No one would mind if left the party.

Posted by: O'Reilly at July 3, 2006 11:17 PM

73

No fireworks tomorrow night for Happy One if he throws a temper tantrum.

Posted by: Happy Three at July 3, 2006 11:27 PM

74

Name the Author Quiz: Quastion 1

The approval-rating bumps Bush was counting on, first from his White House staff shake-up and then from the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, never really materialized, leaving the president in deeply unpopular territory.

Theoretically, Bush could get himself out of this mess by trying to solve some of the problems afflicting his presidency. But campaigning is easier.

Posted by: O'Reilly at July 3, 2006 11:31 PM

75

This is pretty interesting. It's an 18-minute clip of the construction of the towers. It shows from digging for the foundation to topping out on the steel. The last 4 minutes, at least for me, were just sound, so I think it messed up.

tower construction film

Posted by: Alan at July 3, 2006 11:34 PM

Posted by: spy on this! at July 3, 2006 11:44 PM

77

Democratic protests about the Iraq war are inappropriate and dangerous.
--John Podhoretz of The New York Post

Posted by: spy on this! at July 4, 2006 12:09 AM

Posted by: O'Reilly at July 4, 2006 12:17 AM

79

Still talking to Trolls I see.

Seen the tactic before, threaten to leave for months, then create a new identity.

Dumb Trolls......

Posted by: titchaba at July 4, 2006 01:26 AM

Posted by: Gerald at July 4, 2006 01:27 AM

81

Yeah, Happy dropped in to babble some crap that only he can understand. He 'talks' to David instead of us, but in circles and all over the place. I'm quite sure David makes the same face I do and thinks, "wtf is this guy trying to say?!"

Posted by: Alan at July 4, 2006 01:29 AM

82

that reminds me: i hate you guys and it won't be long until i leave and you won't have old spy! to kick around any more -

Posted by: spy on this! at July 4, 2006 01:30 AM

83

Ehhh, I almost said "Yeah Tit, Happy dropped in..."

But I didn't think that sounded right. haha

Posted by: Alan at July 4, 2006 01:30 AM

84

#80 is a great article. There are more and more people becoming aware of the fact that Nazi America is an evil and a vile nation.

Posted by: Gerald at July 4, 2006 01:34 AM

85

From #80 -

It is proof of the collapse of American morals and the fallen character of the American people that the American public and its elected representatives in Congress refuse to rein in the Bush regime and hold it responsible for its monstrous crimes.

America has become a land of evil. The rest of the world hates and despises us. And we are going to pay a terrible price for it. Bush's belief that our superpower status makes us immune to the opinion of others goes beyond hubris into insanity.

Posted by: Gerald at July 4, 2006 01:47 AM

86

"President Bush is so angry at the New York Times he said today he's not even going to pretend to read it anymore."

Posted by: O'Reilly at July 4, 2006 01:50 AM

87

Mortal Sins

Dear Cornposters:

Nazi America has accepted and embraced bushianity. Bushianity is a religion founded on eight pillars of faith. Let us look at these eight pillars of faith.

1. Hatred is a mortal sin.
2. Murders are mortal sins.
3. Torture is a mortal sin.
4. War crimes are mortal sins.
5. Corruption is a mortal sin.
6. Decadence is a mortal sin.
7. Greed is a mortal sin.
8. Lies are mortal sins.

Nazi America is a nation inundated with mortal sins. Mortal sins are damning our devil incarnate nation.

Sincerely,

Gerald

Posted by: Gerald at July 4, 2006 01:52 AM

88

Nazi Americans should focus more on trying to do good and avoid evil. A person who tries to do good and avoid evil is destined for eternal salvation.

Posted by: Gerald at July 4, 2006 01:56 AM

89

O
A
truly major development

Posted by: Happy to be counted at July 4, 2006 01:56 AM

90

God is a mysterious God. He does not ask much from us. All He is asking is to "love one another as I have loved you." People is that too much to ask of our lives?

Posted by: Gerald at July 4, 2006 02:00 AM

91

Yeah Gerald, #80 was a good one!
I liked this part too...

Playing to this audience, Col. Jeffrey Snow, a U.S. brigade commander in Baghdad, told AFP News that news coverage could cause the U.S. to lose the war. In other words, what we are doing in Iraq cannot stand the light of day, so reporters must not report or the word will get out.

Many Bush supporters believe that truth is not on our side and must be suppressed. Yet, they support a war that is too shameful to report.

Posted by: Alan at July 4, 2006 02:03 AM

92

ack! That second graf shoulda been in italics also.

Posted by: Alan at July 4, 2006 02:05 AM

93

*warning for Gerald... this might make you puke

A New Partnership Binds Old Republican Rivals

(July 3) -- After years of competitive and often contentious dealings, President Bush and Senator John McCain of Arizona are building a deepening if impersonal relationship that is serving the political needs of both men.
=====
article is broken up with this poll you can vote on...
Can John McCain win the White House in 2008?
Yes 46%
No 41%
I'm not sure 13%
Total Votes: 43,243

Will President Bush support John McCain in 2008?
I think he will 59%
It's too early to tell 21%
I don't think so 15%
I'm not sure 5%
Total Votes: 42,246


Posted by: Alan at July 4, 2006 02:20 AM

94

They're too busy I guess...

C.I.A. Closes Unit Focused on Capture of bin Laden

WASHINGTON, July 3 Ñ The Central Intelligence Agency has closed a unit that for a decade had the mission of hunting Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenants, intelligence officials confirmed Monday.

Posted by: Alan at July 4, 2006 02:49 AM

95

In case anybody hasn't put two 'n two together about the soldier charged with 4 murders. Those guys worked a checkpoint. They raped and murdered and got away with it. Then what happens? Three of their buddies get attacked at a checkpoint (revenge) with one killed outright, the other two's bodies we find a couple days later. No wonder LBH isn't in here taking their side anymore.

Posted by: Alan at July 4, 2006 03:19 AM

96

Hold President Bush Accountable

How many times does President Bush think the American people will fall for the administration's hypocritical and Orwellian fantasies about needing to trample on the Constitution in a time of endless war?

Now the president and his seeming co-president, Dick Cheney, are criticizing The New York Times for leaking classified information exposing one more apparent abuse of power. This from the pair that found nothing wrong with exposing the identity of a CIA agent and even selectively and secretly declassifying information to go after a political enemy.

Their hypocrisy is mind-boggling.

The Times offense this time was to reveal that the administration was tapping into private financial transactions. The administration says it is all very legal and that Congress has been consulted.

As Ronald Reagan used to say, "trust but verify."

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

"Their hypocrisy is mind-boggling"

I would have said MIND-NUMBING but that is splitting hairs.

capt

Posted by: capt at July 4, 2006 05:44 AM

97

Study: Money Does Not Buy Much Happiness

Your next raise might buy you a more lavish vacation, a better car, or a few extra bedrooms, but it's not likely to buy you much happiness.

Measuring the quality of people's daily lives via surveys, the results of a study published in the June 30 issue of journal Science reveals that income plays a rather insignificant role in day-to-day happiness.

Although most people imagine that if they had more money they could do more fun things and perhaps be happier, the reality seems to be that those with higher incomes tend to be tenser, and spend less time on simple leisurely activities.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

If you are not happy without wealth, wealth will be a extra burden and will not make you happy. If you are happy without wealth you will likely be happy with it as well. In other words "money" is not the "happy" factor.

"If there were in the world today any large number of people who desired their own happiness more than they desired the unhappiness of others, we could have paradise in a few years." ~ Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)

capt

Posted by: capt at July 4, 2006 06:02 AM

98

RFK Jr., Florida Law Firm to File Federal Whistleblower Suits Against Two Voting Machine Companies!

From: Bradblog

First case to be filed next week, according to attorneys scheduled to meet with US Department of Justice officials this week.

Since Bobby Kennedy, Jr. and attorney Mike Papantonio have now discussed this out loud on the air on their Ring of Fire radio program (where yours truly will be a guest next Saturday, by the way) and since this week's Rolling Stone references it, we may as well share a few more prevoiusly undisclosed exclusive details about the upcoming federal qui tam (false claims or fraud) lawsuits to be filed against two of the major American electronic voting machine companies.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

"According to Kennedy, company insiders are prepared to testify that the firms knowingly made false claims when they sold their voting systems to the government - misrepresenting the accuracy, reliability and security of machines that will be used by 72 million voters this November."

One question: Would all of this go unnoticed without Kennedy? Where are the peoples advocates?

capt

Posted by: capt at July 4, 2006 06:34 AM

99

Former Navy Sec: Bush, GOP can't fix Iraq mess

Neither President Bush nor the Republican-led Congress can extract the United States from a bloody quagmire of their own making in Iraq, said a former Republican who is seeking a Senate seat in Virginia.

Democrat Jim Webb, who was President Reagan's Navy secretary in 1987-88, said he knows from his own past as one of the Vietnam War's most decorated Marines how to "bring the Iraq War to an early and honorable end."

Webb bolted the GOP in 2003 over Bush's decision to invade Iraq and this year announced he would challenge Republican Sen. George Allen, a conservative former governor who's exploring a 2008 White House bid. Opposition to the war is a cornerstone of Webb's campaign.

"I have believed strongly that when things aren't working well, it is the responsibility of our leaders to admit it, and to fix the problem," Webb said Saturday in the Democrats' weekly radio address. "Some say that speaking out against a war is disloyal to the troops. Whoever says that should consider what it's like to be a troop, wishing someone would speak the truth."

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Far better insight from this GOPher than from Joe Loserman.

capt

Posted by: capt at July 4, 2006 07:09 AM

100

Gerald wrote:

>Hillary to me is an extention of the Nazis in power.


She has totally morphed into a Republican over the past six years. No wonder she was booed at a recent Democratic event.


Bob


Posted by: Bob in North Dakota at July 4, 2006 07:51 AM

101

THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE
In Congress, July 4, 1776,

THE UNANIMOUS DECLARATION OF THE THIRTEEN UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.

The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world:
______________

It ain't just empty words, folks!

-T

Posted by: Hajji at July 4, 2006 08:56 AM

102

"It ain't just empty words, folks!"

Um, not to most of us. Thank goodness for that!


capt

Posted by: capt at July 4, 2006 09:26 AM

103

#91 Alan, dissent is the lifeline of a democracy. I am not talking about Nazi dissents. Their aim is to murder and maim.

#93 Alan, I started puking at 8:59am and I stopped at 9:51am.

#95 Alan, the Iraqis knew them and they planned the killing.

#97 capt, happiness is in Shalom; where all God's children share in His gifts.

#100 Bob in N.D., prior to marrying Bill, Hillary was a repug.

Why doesn't Joe Lapdog Lieberman run as a repugnant. His behavior has already been repugnant.

Posted by: Gerald at July 4, 2006 10:05 AM

104

This is fundamental to why Hillary can't win in 2008. If she continues her move to the center, she loses the left of the Democractic Party and can't win the nomination. If she moves back to the left to get the nomimation, she loses the center and can't win the election.

Posted by: jblog at July 4, 2006 11:12 AM

105

Just got back from our local parade. It's one of the biggest in the state, so the politicians were out in full force. Like ants at a picnic.

A happy and safe Independence Day to everyone.

Posted by: RicK at July 4, 2006 12:12 PM

106

Gee, we keep hearing how much trouble Hillary is in yet she's raised more money than any senator up for re-election, has double digit leads over either of her two possible opponents in NY and leads every other dem by double digits for 08 - We should all be in such trouble!

Let's get real!

Posted by: Craig at July 4, 2006 06:06 PM

107

Tell you what, Craig, if the Dems nominate Hillary in 2008, you don't have to get me anything for Christmas OR my birthday ever again. It would be the best possible outcome for the Republicans, because she simply can't and won't win. Ahead in money and the polls in her current race? Big deal. Joseph Stalin could pull that off in New York State. But consider this - in her last Senate race, her opponent -- a nobody from nowhere who nobody had ever heard of and who entered the race six months before the election after Rudy Guilani pulled out -- polled 44 percent of the vote. That's how much she's disliked, even in the blue state NY. So please, by all means, nominate her in 2008. Pretty please, with sugar on top. And sprinkles.

Posted by: jblog at July 4, 2006 10:41 PM

108

heh,heh,heh

This from the North Georgia mountains:

All them liberal whackos from metro Atlanta gotta
drive the "Zell Miller Parkway" named in his honor to get up to these beautiful mountains. Drives them crazy but it's the only way they can get here to get away from the nut house down there.

Let's hope Joe, that great American, pulls it off in blue-blue Connecticut.

Posted by: PJ O'Donovan at July 5, 2006 08:22 AM

109

Mr. David Corn
Joe Lieberman is an honorable man in my eyes. I don't see him as a repubican as do some of the people leaving comments here. One thing I never heard Mr. Lieberman say is the Bush lied about WMDS. You sure did though. You even wrote a book on the subject.
Now that significant amounts of WMDS have been found in Iraq, everyone now sees what a liar "YOU" are. With your words you have shown to me what a TRAITOR of the USA you really are.
Mr. Lieberman is a true American leader. He doesn't pass judgement before ALL the facts are in. If you were a smart man you would have done the same thing. What for the facts.
If we were on a U.S. Naval ship your actions would be viewed as "MUTANY".

Posted by: ryorko at July 6, 2006 09:45 AM

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