Saladin,

See the last thread for my comments on this (at the very end). It's going to be fun with the Republican ladies at my son's school, telling them of the juicy rumor from the WMR report.

Wry, David Corn, wry. Be sure to remember to take out the trash, now...

#465 last thread:

I think the SCOTUS made a terrible mistake in equating dollars with speech.

As well as equating corporations with persons.

Mr. Corn,

Very funny post. It seems Bush likes to create enemies lurking everywhere, both home and abroad. It's that "fear politics" strategy rearing it's ugly head, so often used by Bush and others before him.

CNN: Bush moves gay marriage press conference to less prominent location
RAW STORY
Published: Monday June 5, 2006

President Bush unexpectedly yanked a press event on the Federal Marriage Amendment from the White House Rose Garden and placed it inside the Old Executive Office Building without explanation, CNN reported Monday.

After giving a prepared statement, the President did not take any questions, and instead walked off the podium. RAW STORY will be posting a video of the conference shortly.

In other gay marriage news, MSNBC's conservative host Joe Scarborough said Monday that most conservatives "know" Bush is "pandering" on gay marriage (Video here). The amendment does not have enough votes to pass the Senate.

report from 469 last thread:

Besides the Chech Republic and Italy, what other teams are in the same round-robin as the USA and what players on the US team are the ones to watch?

I'm excited for World Cup Soccer too but I'm uninformed about personnel and play styles. Pande et al, anything you care to share and link too is greatly appreciated. Oh, Happy, I'm also interested in strategies for 'capture the flag' so feel free to share those here.

My home state team UMass made it to the finals in NCAA D1 Lax. I was in Ithaca NY when they started their run. It was against #5 ranked Cornell. Big Red came out fast but lagged in Q2 and Q3.

An alum from the class of '60 who played lax back in the day, commented on the sluggish play with an explananation,"Cornell just finished exam week." Then he asked me if UMass had also just finished exam week. I joked, "I don't know if UMass has exam week."

I watched the rest of the D1 Lax tournament on TV. Umass won it's second round game against #3 ranked Hofstra and it's semi-final game against #2 ranked Maryland. In the finals, the UMass Minutemen played #1 ranked Virgina Cavs even for almost three quarters before they fell behind and finally lost. The Cavs are the best.

Now on to World Cup soccer. Pande, give us the goods.

PS I'd comment on Bush's cynical and purely-political call for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage but I'll leave that to others.

If you can, watch and listen to the panel on C SPAN about the amendment; and watch the replay of Katrina Vanden Heuvel, David Corn and others from The Nation talking about politics and journalism.

Notice how the SCOTUS (judicial) schedule seems to echo the intolerance of the Congrescritters?

It is all a game to pontificate and obfuscate. It all is designed by the lobbiest/advertisers to sway and motivate "voters".

It is all done to distract, to de-rail, to deamonize those who'd turn the focus on the game, itself.

-T

Today a member of Uncle Tom's Log Cabin Republicans sent out a press release, which stated in part:

"As gay Republicans, who are rich as hell and intend to stay that way, we believe that very conservative economic and social policy is the right policy for this country. As long as we keep getting tax breaks, we have nothing to say about the sanctity of marriage."

500 Conspiracy Buffs Meet to Seek the Truth of 9/11 By ALAN FEUER
Published: June 5, 2006

CHICAGO, June 4 — In the ballroom foyer of the Embassy Suites Hotel, the two-day International Education and Strategy Conference for 9/11 Truth was off to a rollicking start.

[...]

"We feel at this point we've done a lot of solid research, but the American public still is not informed," said Michael Berger, press director for 911Truth.org, which sponsored the event. "We had to come up with a disciplined approach to get it out."

Mr. Berger, 40, is typical of 9/11 Truthers — a group that, in its rank and file, includes professors, chain-saw operators, mothers, engineers, activists, used-book sellers, pizza deliverymen, college students, a former fringe candidate for United States Senate and a long-haired fellow named hummux (pronounced who-mook) who, on and off, lived in a cave for 15 years.

The former owner of a recycling plant outside St. Louis, Mr. Berger joined the movement when he grew skeptical of why the 9/11 Commission had failed, to his sense of sufficiency, to answer how the building at 7 World Trade Center collapsed like a ton of bricks. It was his "9/11 trigger," the incident that drew him in, he said. For others, it might be the fact that the air-defense network did not prevent the attacks that day, or the appearance of thousands of "puts" — or short-sell bids — on the nation's airline stocks. The 9/11 Commission found the sales innocuous.)

More.

**************************

The NYTimes on 9/11...

Mr. David Corn,

Maybe the neocons over-stroking the subject will bring about a pre-release of some of the right thinking moderates?

The game is afoot. Time will tell. I hope to see a few new polls down in the mid to low twenties. Lately everything the WH has tried has backfired. No reason to think this will not work (again) but I hope it blows up in their faces.

Thanks for all of your work.

capt

Divide and Conquer the Voters
NYT Editorial | 6/5/6

President Bush devoted his Saturday radio speech to a cynical boost for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. It was depressing in the extreme to hear the chief executive trying to pretend, at this moment in American history, that this was a critical priority.

Mr. Bush's central point was that the nation is under siege from "activist judges" who are striking down anti-gay-marriage laws that conflict with their own state constitutions. That's their job, just as it is the job of state legislators to either fix the laws or change their constitutions.

If there's anything the country should have learned over the past five years, it is that Mr. Bush and his supporters have no problem with judicial decisions, no matter how cutting edge, that endorse their political positions. They trot out the "activist judge" threat only when they're worried about getting out their base on Election Day.

All this effort to divert the nation's attention to issues that divide and distract would be bad enough if the country were not facing real, disastrous problems at home and abroad. But then, if that weren't the case, Mr. Bush probably wouldn't feel moved to stoop so low.

READ ON (link)

The game is afoot:

Soccer?
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle?
Or the animation of Monty Python?

This is funny, out of the War Room in Salon.

From the "Earth to CNN" department....

You Mean We Didn't Find Any WMDs?

D - all of the above?

Stop the Beast
By Marjorie Cohn
t r u t h o u t | Perspective
Monday 05 June 2006

To date, the Iraq War represents the fullest and most relentless application of the Bush Agenda. The "freer and safer world" envisioned by Bush and his administration is ultimately one of an ever-expanding American empire driven forward by the growing powers of the nation's largest multinational corporations and unrivaled military.
-Antonia Juhasz, The Bu$h Agenda: Invading the World, One Economy at a Time

In an annual security conference on Saturday, Donald Rumsfeld assured the audience, "We don't intend to occupy [Iraq] for any period of time. Our troops would like to go home and they will go home."

Why, then, would the United States be building an enormous embassy in Baghdad and a base so large it eclipses Kosovo's Camp Bondsteel, which had been the largest foreign US military base built since Vietnam?

The new embassy, which occupies a space two-thirds the area of the national mall in Washington DC, comprises 21 buildings that will house over 8,000 government officials. It has a huge pool, gym, theater, beauty salon, school, and six apartment buildings.

The gargantuan military base, Camp Anaconda, occupies 15 square miles of Iraqi soil near Balad. The base is home to 20,000 soldiers and thousands of "contractors," or mercenaries. The aircraft runway at Anaconda is the second busiest in the world, behind only Chicago's O'Hare airport. And, depending on which report you read, between six and fourteen more US military bases are under construction in Iraq. It doesn't appear we'll be leaving anytime soon - or anytime, really.

Bush's trumped-up war on Iraq has claimed nearly 2,500 US military lives and tens of thousands of Iraqi lives. Thousands of US soldiers suffer in military hospitals, most with head injuries, many missing limbs. Thousands more have PTSD. Our economy is in shambles from the war and Bush's tax-cuts-for-the-rich. And America's moral standing in the world continues to plummet.

So, with all the construction activity in Iraq, and with an overextended military and an under funded budget, how could the Bush administration possibly consider expanding the fight and attacking Iran? Logic and reason say it couldn't happen and shouldn't happen. But this administration has rarely paid much heed to logic and reason.

The plan to attack Iran has long been in the works. Bush gave us a preview in January 2002 when he inaugurated it into his "axis of evil." His 2006 National Military Strategy says, "We may face no greater challenge from a single country than from Iran." On Saturday, Donald Rumsfeld called Iran the world's leading terrorist nation. Does any of this have a familiar ring to it?

To understand why the US may attack Iran, one must consider the underlying motive of US militarism. The recent US strategy is calculated to maintain economic, political and military hegemony over oil-rich areas of the world. A 1992 draft of the Pentagon Defense Planning Guidance on post Cold War Strategy that was leaked to the New York Times said, "Our overall objective is to remain the predominant outside power in [the Middle East and Southwest Asia to] preserve US and Western access to the region's oil."

More.

**************************

Or just playin' footsie?

Carey, thank you for that.

We can always count on Blitz Wolfman.

"Western access to the region's oil"

I always assumed that meant access to oil at about $25 per barrel. See what happens when I assume? HA!

Is it really access if it costs three times as much?

capt

Oh this is just dandy.

The Pentagon's move to omit a ban on prisoner humiliation from the basic guide to soldier conduct faces strong State Dept. opposition.

The Pentagon has decided to omit from new detainee policies a key tenant of the Geneva Convention that explicitly bans "humiliating and degrading treatment", according to knowledgeable military officials, a step that would mark a further, potentially permanent shift away from strict adherence to international human rights standards.

"The overall thinking," said the participant familiar with the defense debate, "is that they need the flexibility to apply cruel techniques if military necessity requires it."

Army Manual to Skip Geneva Detainee Rule

Gay Marriage:

Should be decided solely by the states, not by an amendment to the United States Constitution.

This is a ridiculous ploy to garner favor from people like me. But I, as a staunch proponent of the Tenth Amendment, am not impressed.

But in several instances, gay marriages have been foisted upon the states by the state courts (see Massachusetts).

According to constitutional scholars, gay marriage would carry the impramatur of the full faith and credit clause, meaning that all states would have to recognize any state's legalization of certain marriages.

Most Americans, in numerous polls, favor some kind of legal status for various unions, but without calling it marriage.

If a state legalizes gay marriage, what prevents it from legalizing bigamy? Polygamy? Consensual Incest? Homosexual Incest? Where do we stop?

So, how do we allow each state to exercise its sovereignty in this matter.

We can't hide behind the federal idea of full faith and credit without also embracing the notion of the right to amend the constitution. Both are wrong, so you can't cherry pick which one you want.

So, what is the answer? I certainly don't know.

Seems the chimpster is applying a HUGE double standard to the gay issue, wowzer!

June 4, 2006 -- More on George W. Bush's "Sanctity of Marriage" gay marriage constitutional ban.

George W. Bush's marital problems have just taken another turn for the worse. Apparently, Mr. Bush has not only engaged in an extra-marital affair with a member of the opposite sex who is also a senior member of his Cabinet, but also a member of the same sex. WMR received the following release this morning from Leola McConnell, Democratic candidate for Governor of Nevada (who has been endorsed by WMR). McConnell is a one-time professional dominatrix.

More juicy chimpster tidbits HERE.

Heterosexual marriage, he said today, is "critical to the health of society." - Bush

What a crock. Heterosexual marriage is what most engage in because most are heterosexual. The population isn't going to somehow become homosexual majority if we don't stop the marriages.

What's the real point of this legislation?

464)- Doesn't coke make you horny?

sort of, but dr. pepper is more effective.

And I'm not talking about the election component. What is underneath the need for this group to vote for this assinine legislation? You don't safe the institution of marriage by preventing gays from entering into marriage. That makes no sense.

I can only figure out one reason for the legislation.

Hatred for gays.

#10 here's the same article, but with a poll

500 Conspiracy Buffs Meet to Seek the Truth of 9/11

Do you think the U.S. government was complicit in 9/11?
No way 57%
I'm suspicious but not sure 27%
Yes 17%
Total Votes: 85,613

#24 Jeanne, read WMR, closet gays are in a constant state of denial.

from one of Jone's colleagues...

Letter to the Editor
Refuting 9/11 Conspiracy Theory

Dear Editor,

After reading in the Daily Herald the presentations made by Professor Steven E. Jones (BYU Physics) to students at UVSC and BYU, I feel obligated to reply to his "Conspiracy Theory" relating to the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center (9/11/01).

I have studied the summary of the report by FEMA, The American Society of Civil Engineers and several other professional engineering organizations. These experts have given in detail the effects on the Towers by the impact of the commercial aircraft. I have also read Professor Jones' (referred to) 42 page unpublished report. In my understanding of structural design and the properties of structural steel I find Professor Jones' thesis that planted explosives (rather than fire from the planes) caused the collapse of the Towers, very unreliable.

The structural design of the towers was unique in that the supporting steel structure consisted of closely spaced columns in the walls of all four sides. The resulting structure was similar to a tube. When the aircraft impacted the towers at speeds of about 500 plus mph, many steel columns were immediately severed and others rendered weak by the following fires. The fires critically damaged the floors systems. Structural steel will begin to lose strength when heated to temperatures above 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. Steel bridge girders are bent to conform to the curved roadway by spot heating flanges between 800 and 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. It is easy to comprehend the loss of carrying capacity of all the structural steel due to the raging fires fed by the jet's fuel as well as aircraft and building contents.

Before one (especially students) supports such a conspiracy theory, they should investigate all details of the theory. To me a practicing structural engineer of 57 continuous years (1941-1998), Professor Jones' presentations are very disturbing.

D. Allan Firmage

Professor Emeritus, Civil Engineering, BYU

Interesting poll Alan.

James, really, Dr. Pepper? I'll try that, although I don't seem to have a problem along those lines. Gotta a sexy husband.

Den, see the tale end of the last thread. Saladin posted the WMR article on Bush's possible homosexual trysts followed by comments from others.

Now, as my son would say, this is sweeet, the newest Molly Ivin column. This one gets a little nasty in its humor. I love it.

Things that Make me Cringe

Saladin, please keep us posted on the reinstatement of the military draft proposals and debates. Thank you! If you desire endless wars, then you will accept the military draft that will carry on endless wars and nuclear strikes against other defenseless countries like Iraq and Iran. Please never forget that Nazi America loves to piss away money on wars.

Another wedge issue comes out of the closet - gay marriages. What will destroy straight marriages is not gay marriages but our fascist and devilish government. Yes, our government that embraces hatred, murders, torture, war crimes, corruption, decadence, greed, and lies will destroy straight home and family life. With dead children fighting in endless wars how can we have a home and family life. Death in our families cuts short family life.

If you love misery, pain, and suffering inflicted upon God's children, you will love the the numbers below.

American Soldiers 2

2,771 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan for Bush and his lies.

18,500+ American soldiers have been maimed in Iraq and Afghanistan for Bush and his evil lies.

45,000+ American soldiers are suffering from PTSD.

Over 350,000+ Iraqis have been killed in Iraq since Bush declared shock and awe bombings on March 19, 2003.

Contamination from depleted uranium may have affected 125,000+ American soldiers and several million Iraqis.

Are you feeling more safe and secure with Bush in the WH and Cheney as his chief hatchet man overseeing Nazi America and her citizens?

Our military men and women are used as cannon fodder for a terrorist Nazi American government.

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, AND NEITHER DO WE. George W. Bush, August 5, 2005

Rigged elections doom American democracy. American soldiers are being killed and maimed TO PROMOTE A NAZI AMERICAN STATE.

Henry Kissinger says that military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.

Nazi America is a mirror image of Hitler Bush.

Nazi Americans continually justify sin.

Nazi Americans are accomplices with Bush for his murders and war crimes.

DEN @ #21,

Please be careful, my friend, when you spread such salacious, malicious and scurrilous rumors. As you consider this woman's credibility, remember the following.

1.She also claimed she was Bill Bennett's dominatrix for five years, an assertion that has been totally discredited.

2.What do you think are the chances that a liberal hooker would be intimately involved with both George Bush and Bill Bennett?

3.She states that she witnessed George Bush in his relationship with Victor Ashe in 1984, without ever mentioning where, when, how, under what circumstances, etc. Further, she provides no corroborating evidence whatsoever.

4.This rumor has been floating around the Internet since at least February of this year. In the original iterations, the date was not 1984, but during President Bush's time at Yale, because Ashe was his roommate there. She didn't even do her homework well enough to know that fact.

DEN, this woman is a total nutcase, which also makes Wayne Madsen a nutcase for repeating this defamation. You repeat this drivel because you want to believe it. This is not serious academic inquiry. It serves you poorly.

one more article, then I'll shuddup 'bout Jones...

But is Professor Jones qualified to create a paper which says the towers must have fell due to explosives? He is a physics professor but what experience does Jones have in building collapse forensics? He has none. His other peer reviewed papers consist of cold fusion technology. He conducts research in nuclear fusion and solar energy. Nothing in his background would suggest he is qualified to write a civil engineering paper on the infinitely complex building collapse of the towers.
(snip)
Professor Jones's department and college administrators are not convinced that his analyses and hypotheses have been submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review." The College of Engineering and Technology department has also added, "The structural engineering faculty in the Fulton College of Engineering and Technology do not support the hypotheses of Professor Jones."

Brigham Young University doesn't want anything to do with the paper.

I don't know if anyone else is having trouble posting. I just posted an item and it's not showing up. Furthermore, when I click my favorites list on David Corn, I do not come up with this latest thread. I have to go to the prevoius one and click next to get to this one. Weird.

Anyway, here's the Edward Luttwak article on the need for civil war that I promised to post this weekend. I do not entirely agree with it, although it's an interesting argument. I'm antiwar like many of you.

One reader responded to this article by writing:

"Based on Luttwak's model, the Soviet Union as well as its East European Empire would have been better off had civil war broken out. Likewise Czechoslovakia and, most recently, Montenegro.

These cases indicate that peaceful dissolution is possible. They are examples that Iraq--an artificial state without a national foundation--should emulate."

The Civil War Solution

Peace in Iraq will come only after the warring factions battle it out. It's a bloody but time-honored, and effective, strategy.

Civil wars can be especially atrocious as neighbors kill eaach other at close range, but they also have a purpose. They can bring lasting peace by destroying the will to fight and by removing the motives and opportunities for further violence.

Factchecker

Regarding #2 in your list answering Den's and Saladin's postings--she's a hooker! They get paid! She wouldn't care if they didn't have their front teeth.

Leola McConnell's comments appear to have merit to me. She's a past hooker, and men (and women) do funny things in front of hookers because they aren't considered real people.

The fact that she claims to have done Bill Bennett only makes these allegations more truthworthy to me. I mean, have you listened to Bill Bennett? If there was ever a guy that might engage in sexual perversion, it's him!

Jeanne,

That hatred for gays you allude to falls in nicely with Capt's Herman Hesse quote he's posted a few times. Basically it's that one hates in others what one hates in himself.

#34
Are you saying Bill Frist hates being gay?

gay marriage? this calls for a ha report.
because people just want to say ha!
---------------
looking at the ha meter i see that bushco are way ahead of the world including john Q in both quantity and quality of ha's. what the devil am i talking about? hmmm. i mean ha.

y2k, ha al gore! ha democrats! yay, tax cuts! ha next generation! PNAC: "get ready for a big HA!" yay more tax cuts! double ha next generation!
911! PNAC: "it's merely a coincidence that we said get ready for a big HA, by the way, double big HA because we are destroying the real evidence so that any question of our guilt is ignored! HA and HA!" another tax cut? we deserve it since 911 was such a terrible blow to silverstein et al. ha grandchildren!
uh oh, ha to afghanistan. and ha to iraq. we hate you! ha to you both!
yay another tax cut! double ha to you grandchildren! lets import everything from china except illegal immigrants which we will import from somewhere else = ha manufacturing base!
everybody loves raymond (dweeb) gets paid 1.8 million/episode, thanx mcmedia and ha to fat ass american couch potatos! gasoline = $3.50/gal. ha ha ha and ha suv'ers! let the dancing israeli spies go home! ha justice! oh ya, katrina (heckuva job browny!) = GIANT HA for you new orlean black peeps, who needs ya! death to the inventors of cheap hydrogen conversion engine technology, ha ha who needs that either?
(heckuva job rummy: "we cannot account for some $2.6 TRILLION, but don't worry because no one will remember that after tomorrow!" {911}) HA!
HAcetera, HAcetera....
oh, ha cornnuts, you have been deflected once more by gay effin marriage. thanx mr. corn for all your ha's!
----------------

this ha report has been brought to you by 7ENGA
the incredible WTC building block game!
how tall is too tall?
find out when the tower falls!
(believable by ages 5 and under)

Pandemoniac,

You had wondered about the labor force participation rate. First, the range of motion within the index has been rather small. It went from a high of about 67.3% in 2000 to, I think, about 66.2% now. It actually rose several months ago to its current percentage, where it has been flat for the last several months. And, perhaps, those deltas can be explained within three standard deviations, which make them statistically immaterial.

Practically the entire cause of the decrease is the lack of 16 - 19 year olds either employed or looking for work, for both male and female. The Brookings Institution released a great 97-page study on the subject in March 2006.

we are once again reassured by alan-(#27) that 911 was in no way an inside job! thanx alan, good job! i luv ya man but you need to take that tin foil hat off!

Your best post I have read to date!!!! This whole bit smacks of violation of our private rights. Are we to have bedroom police to see who is who? Will we take DNA samples to figure out the sex changes? Will we monitor the people walking down the aisle? This is all just bullshit for the fall elections to get out the republican voters. I am one of them and I will vote democratic this time across the board and hope these hypocrital son's of bitches learn something. Funny didn't Laura just mention something about not using the same sex marriage issue in the up and coming election.

Comments regarding Prof. Jones’ "Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?"

Rove must have got this new strategy from her

TERRORIST FOUND IN THE U.S. WITH WMD!!!

oh, never mind, he's not muslim.

If the Nazis are so concerned about marriages why are they doing everything to dismantle family life? Where are the tax breaks for the middle class to help family life and straight marriages? Hitler Bush and his goons and thugs are giving us another screw job.

Hell no my child will not go! Will mothers rally for the end of endless wars?

No time but for that Panty...

You love to spend considerable time to bait/rebut/ridicule me to enagage. Good, 4~5 to 1 ratio is what I've succeessfully aimed for. Keep it up! So, Who is getting under your skin? Oh, Yeh, Happy/Hapless/filltheblank me!

BTW: I, Happy, do on ocassions use inappropriate languages or call names and I don't deny them. But, almost always, "you/Cornuts did it first". School yard stuff, just like you.....

"Most Americans aren't the sort of citizens the Founding Fathers expected; they are contented serfs. Far from being active critics of government, they assume that its might makes it right." : Joseph Sobran (1946- ) Columnist
=
"A State which dwarfs its men, in order that they may be more docile instruments in its hands -- even for beneficial purposes -- will find that with small men no great thing can really be accomplished.": John Stuart Mill - (1806-1873) English philosopher and economist

=
"I never could believe that Providence had sent a few men into the world, ready booted and spurred to ride, and millions ready saddled and bridled to be ridden.": Richard Rumbold - (?-1626) British Colonel - Source: His final words on the scaffold before he was hanged in 1685.

===
Thanks ICH Newsletter!

Discussion of the reinstatement of the military draft is more important than a gay marriage amendment. Personally, a gay marriage amendment will not pass. Slick Dick Chainey's daughter needs to be heard more often on this discussion of gay marriages. Gay marriages are a personal, moral, and possibly a medical issue but it should never be a political issue.

James, here is Mike Rivero's comment regarding that so-called poll;

"Check out the online poll. It was showing most respondents thought the government was complicit, then "suddenly" a whole slew of "no" votes materialized out of the air. I didn't realize Diebold did online polling!" :)
-------------

I also read an article on Alternet called "Wild Conspiracy Theories and Rational Concerns" by Joshua Holland. There were a LOT of comments, and I would guess roughly 90% are certain the govt. is lying. The recent Zogby poll showed half the people polled thought we needed a new investigation and the CNN polls on Charlie Sheen were overwhelmingly in support of his stand.

Factchecker, I believe I referred to that report as "rumors" and said I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were true. Allowing a gay male prostitute into the WH at all hours without checking in or out doesn't help the case any either, and that is a confirmed fact. You may think these people are nutcases, but I think this administration and anyone that even remotely supports it is way worse than a nutcase!

The sons and daughters of the rich and famous will never be drafted for military service!!!!! If they are drafted, they will leave the country and receive amnesty for dissertion at a later date.

Nazis give us wedge issues because they do not want to take on the big issues, such as fairness, love for our fellow man, mercy, and Shalom.

I am tired of these endless screw jobs that the Nazis give us.

If there is anything certain in life, it is that Nazi Americans are a stupid, stupid people.

polls? it doesn't matter what x amount of respondents believe. bushco could blatantly say we blew it up and the media would ignore it and the sheople would merely be annoyed at the interruption to their herd activities anyway - why does the media ignore 911? click my name.

Hating people of color does not make one "white" and hating gays does not make one straight.

I have never known a single place where hate is justified.

"If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us."

~ Hermann Hesse

There are many committed gay and lesbian couples. They will be together with or without a marriage or any other "legal" documentation.

The ban on gay marriage is legislating hate. It will never happen. The grandstanding is just too pathetic and an obvious ploy. I bet it backfires on the WH. I hope it does.

capt

No. No....No no.
Frist doesn't hate himself for being gay. He is using this marketing gimick (gay marriage) to divide congress and the nation as he did with Terri Schiavo. Very honorable of him. Who cares about the lives involved?

Just think of the advantages of this approach. No real legislation needs to be discussed. That's so great. Health care? Ewwwe...no national health care discussion on my watch says the very important doctor.
Iraq? No, no, no. That is a very sticky issue. We found something that impacts a small minority and that minority not very much. They can live without marriage. It's not like a transplant for God's sake.
And how many people really see through the the BS to the strategy? Even if they do they get caught up in the debate and then they forget. I don't see Frist as being gay...just greedy.

I am not a scientist. Is it the law of physics that for every action there is a reaction? The more Nazis act, the more people will react on certain issues.

Louis Tice of the Pacific Institute in Seattle, Washington talks about in order to gain power, you give up power. It is a paradox. Confident leaders are not the controlling leaders. Controlling leaders are insecure and unstable leaders and a grave jeopardy to our freedoms and rights.

The GOrPS or the War Party really hates to govern. They have been on a five year hiatus from governing.

If bush is so concerned about gayness, why was he allowing an overtly gay male prostitute to hang around under the guise of a "reporter" who was just plagerizing? This whole gay marriage thing has nothing to do with reality, most people couldn't care less, but it will serve as a distraction from the clusterfuck in Iraq as the Nov. elections draw near.

Happy,
Because I am a generous human being I don't put you in the loser category. But I will if you continue with that inane 'panty' label for pandemoniac.

The Cowardice of the Conservative

hey my copy/paste is not working! i think it might've thrown a rod?

Nazi America wants to nuke and not talk

Make no mistake, Nazi America wants to kill Iranians!!!!!!!!!!

"I, Happy, do on ocassions use inappropriate languages or call names and I don't deny them. But, almost always, "you/Cornuts did it first". School yard stuff, just like you....."

Is this what you teach your scouts?

Mr. Corn,
How much ribbing do you get about the posters on your blog when you are in the company of employed citizens? Honestly, they are just as far-fetched and out-of-touch as anyone in the Bush administration. Are you familiar with the "Ivan" syndrome in the former Soviet Union? You know when people, overcome with unsubstantiated paranoia, start disassembling appliances and parts of their home looking for KGB spy devices. The only fertilizer possessed by these people is the fertilizer between their ears.

People,

There is a huge difference between hating something or somebody and giving it legal status.

I love (filios) my sons. Should I have the option to marry them? No.

I love (filios) my mother. Should I have the option to marry her? No.

I love (filios) my young niece. Should I have the option to marry her? No.

Marriage has been defined for ten thousand years as between one man and one woman. If you don't stop there, how about between three women? How about between a woman and two men? How about two men and three sons? How about between two fathers and three daughters?

Where does it end?

Absolutely give these people legal partnership rights, but please don't call it a marriage.

And please tell me how any of these situtations I described above is any different than what is being proposed on a federal level?

My problem with the legislation, again, is that it emanates at the federal level and not the state level. That decision should be made, according to the Tenth Amendment, by the people of the state and not by a bunch of judges.

If you consider this a federal right, you give the Congress the right to intervene. That's what Constitutional amendments do; they change the existing laws.

Can we all agree that this should be settled at the state level without the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution being applicable, i.e., the marriage in one state being valid in all states?

If you can't agree with this, you must allow for the federal populace the right to attempt to redress and amend its laws.

#30 fchk, sez:

"DEN, this woman is a total nutcase, which also makes Wayne Madsen a nutcase for repeating this defamation. You repeat this drivel because you want to believe it. This is not serious academic inquiry. It serves you poorly."

Now who is spreading vicious rumors, hmmm.

Better put that in your "practice what you preach" fact book.

Perhaps you would know why Jeff Gannon a known male prostitute, would have access to the WH. This is not the first time chimpsters homo-erotic escapades have been called into question.

Where in the world are you going to find "witnesses" except prostitutes. He knows he is safe, after all who would believe a prostitute, lowlifes that they are.

fchk, Who the HELL are you to tell anyone what to do with their own person. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!

Marriage has been defined for ten thousand years as between one man and one woman. If you don't stop there, how about between three women? How about between a woman and two men? How about two men and three sons? How about between two fathers and three daughters?

Where does it end? - factchecker?

Has it now? Seems to me I remember Biblical Kings having many wives, polygamy is still practiced in some places as is polyandry, then there is the story of Lot's daughters...

I hate busybodys who think it is up to them to decide what I should do or not do.

The only person you can control is yourself.

Quit this moral judgement crap. If I'm not commiting a crime so what?

Busybodies, minding your business so you wo'nt have to!

DEN out!

what if one hermaphrodite named jones marries another hermaphrodite named smith? would that be considered gay marriage? or could they in effect be married twice, once as mr. and mrs. jones and once as mr. and mrs. smith? if mr. jones was elected to be president would he then be the first woman president? hmmm. what if president jones and his wife were then divorced, would prez. jones then be considered his own first lady? "ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the president (and first lady) jones!"
hmmm. what if herm jones was elected prez. and herm smith were elected vice prez? since they are already married to each other would they have to take turns escorting one another to state functions? "ladies and gentlemen, please rise for prez. jones and his lovely first lady, mrs. jones!" - they would then have to race to the dressing room and quickly change! - "ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the vice prez. and mrs. smith!" - hmmm.

what about lot's wife? she was a pillar of the community!

Salt of the earth...

Speaking of Earth, George has declared a War on Terra.

Unfortunately, we are all Terrans.

The Abominations of War From My Lai to Haditha
By Cindy Sheehan
t r u t h o u t | Perspective
Monday 05 June 2006

Yes indeed. BuzzFlash has a link to a commentary by the Mirror(Britian) weatherman about how many people global warming will kill. TomPaine has a link to the Guardian(Britian) article on a U.N. report regarding the problems being faced by people living in deserts.

But George XLIII says that he "doubts it" and relys on a fiction writer for his climate science. In addition, he diverts attention from the important issues with his blather about the meaning of 'marriage'...

DEN,

How do you define marriage?

How about between a man and a woman?

How about between two women?

How about between two men?

OK with all the above? Then, how about the following:

How about between three men?

How about between three women and two men?

How about between twenty men and fity women?

How about between a mother and her son?

How about between a father and his daughter?

How about between a father and his son?

How about between a mother and her daugher?

How about between a father and his two sons?

How about between a father, his son and his daughter?

Under your definition and reasoning, all of the above would be considered marriage. Under my definition, only the first applies.

Please tell me where marriage doesn't apply, if any, and, in your world, why some relationships should be considered marriages and others shouldn't.

CNN: Bush moves gay marriage press conference to less prominent location

President Bush unexpectedly yanked a press event on the Federal Marriage Amendment from the White House Rose Garden and placed it inside the Old Executive Office Building without explanation, CNN reported Monday.

After giving a prepared statement, the President did not take any questions, and instead walked off the podium. RAW STORY will be posting a video of the conference shortly.

In other gay marriage news, MSNBC's conservative host Joe Scarborough said Monday that most conservatives "know" Bush is "pandering" on gay marriage. The amendment does not have enough votes to pass the Senate.
----------------
Yup, that's exactly what he's doing.

George Bush's hand holding friend "[Saudi King]Abdullah has married more than 30 times and usually keeps four wives at a time, as allowed by Muslim law. His wives have included Syrian, Palestinian and Moroccan women. He is related by marriage to King Hussein of Jordan."

pan'der, n. [See Pandarus] 1. A go-between in love intrigues; a pimp. 2. A minister to the evil passions of others.

Robert Schwartz,

Of the scenarios listed in # 72, above, please tell me which ones, specifically, should be allowed in American law.

factchecker, why on earth would you care if 50 women and 50 men want to all marry each other, all 50 to all 50 at the same time, men to men, women to women, women to men? MYOfreakinB! You worry about your own marriage, leave everyone elses ALONE! WTF is WRONG with these people???? We're bombing and DU poisoning the shit out of the middle east and these assholes are worried about what defines MARRIAGE??? GIVE ME A F**KIN' BREAK!!! I thought these so-called conservative republicans were all about minimal govt. intrusion into PERSONAL lives, liberty and all that happy sounding BS? The article Gerald linked at 56 is a good one, and so true.

As long as all parties are consenting adults, I DO NOT GIVE A SHIT! (I would, however, urge that close relatives not procreate.)

How many mothers have married their daughters? How many fathers have married their sons? What a STUPID analogy! I just read that a woman from India married a Cobra, how's that for weird? Maybe factchecker should go down there and set those people straight!

I will add this thought, though. Many polygamous relationships are male dominated, with wife #1 having no say in whether husband takes wife #2. This is different than 3 people chosing to be in a relationship.

One of my favorite essayists is back from hiatus.

Smoking Mirrors

...In this world there are two distinct groups of people. You can subdivide if you like. You can use different words to describe the same condition but there are basically two groups. One of them is rational and one is not. One has its eyes open by varying degrees and one has its eyes closed. One is aware and one is deluded. The tragedy is that one group is so much smaller than the other and it is the wrong one; if that makes sense.

I'm going to speak to the first group. There isn't any point in speaking to the second group. It would be similar to giving a speech to blind people while nude; using charts and diagrams. Members of the elite club of those who are in the business of irrigating the shit out of their ears, lend me your ears. Certainly I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him- but here is no Caesar. Here is a drunken monkey of a ringmaster in a crypto-fascist theme park where once a country stood.

Arrogance is a funny thing. When you're riding at the helm of massive temporal force it's possible to reach levels of insanity that are astounding. You get presidents who aren't qualified to manage a McDonald's who can announce that the most satisfying achievement of their presidency was catching a fish. You get a whole boatload of retainers and hangers on who believe they can get away with anything and that no lie is too outrageous or transparent to be believed. I have never seen anything like these people. I've seen presidents and administrations come and go. I was ring side for Nixon and Reagan. These cats are way past that. It's the difference between bank robbery and felony murder. Whatever the result is going to be; whether they pull it off or whether they get caught, it's going to be the biggest spectacle of them all. In the fog of confusion and mis-direction and disinfo the edge of the precipice cannot be seen. I assure you it is very close in a global way.

The new PR and media game has switched to 'soothing with a taste of mea culpa'. They're piping Easy Listening in over the speaker system while the theater burns. You can see it if you look. But I am hopeful. What I don't know is whether it gets stopped at the edge or whether it gets better after everything hits the rocks below. But it will get better. You have to believe that and you have to work to that result. It may be a grim aftermath. Maybe the only way the masses can wake up is to be flame-broiled in their seats. I don't want to bring religion into the mix- I've got no use for religion but I'd like to leave you with a quote (I'll have to paraphrase) from Mikhail Aivanhov- it is fitting.

When a people have gone astray, God (or destiny- of whatever you may call that inexplicable hand of the unknown) reaches down and gently taps them of the shoulder. If they do not respond, then God shakes them by the shoulder. If they still do not respond, then God picks up a two-by-four.

Never has it been so important to keep your eyes and ears open. For those of you who are listening and watching, I advise turning up the intensity. It is my fervent hope that you will also do whatever is possible for you to do to disseminate the truth and expose the bullshit. If there ever was a time when the time is now then the time is now. But by all means be hopeful. With a little luck and a little grace I'll see you on the other side of this. Be well.

POLL: Only 3 Percent Say Homosexuality is America's 'Most Serious Moral Crisis'

President Bush and congressional conservatives "are aiming the political spotlight this week on efforts to ban gay marriage," a move that's sure to renew debate over so-called 'values voters.' But as a poll released today by the Center for American Progress shows, the moral concerns of the American people are nothing like what the right wing claims.

Asked to name the most serious moral crisis in America today, 28% of Americans cite "kids not raised with the right values" followed by 22% saying "corruption in government/business" 17% saying "greed and materialism" or "people too focused on themselves" and only 3% citing "abortion and homosexuality."

On addressing poverty: 68% of voters strongly agree that "government should uphold the basic decency and dignity of all and take greater steps to help the poor and disadvantaged in America" (89% total agree).

On religious freedom: 67% of voters believe that religious freedom is a "critical" part of their image of America compared to less than three in 10 who believe Judeo-Christian faith specifically is critical to this image.

------------------
The politicians need to look at those numbers. People of this nation want realistic concerns addressed.

same link as above

Gallup has released a similar poll:

What issue do you think should be the top priority for the president and Congress to deal with?

The top five responses were:

Situation in Iraq/war: 42%
Fuel/oil prices/lack of energy sources/the energy crisis: 29%
Immigration/illegal aliens: 23%
Economy in general: 14%
Poor healthcare/ hospitals; high cost of healthcare: 12%

I suppose gay marriage could be classed with 'ethics/moral/religious/family decline' which was the 20th of the 28 issues listed by respondents, important to only 1% of those polled.

Ah, but Jeanne, this congress is less useful than a tapeworm, right?

Jeanne, MORAL CRISIS? The whole fucking country is in a moral crisis, and it has nothing to do with who you like to have sex with! This whole thing pisses me off no end. Why is it the minority always seem to sway the outcome? It's like a democracy from hell. Please excuse my ranting, but with the truckload of shit hitting the fan every damn day I just don't have any patience for this crap! UUUUGGGGHHHH!

#84
Bucket of warm spit.

Definitely less useful than a wave in a slop bucket! Pigs don't even appreciate that! At least tapeworms have appreciative offspring.

No, no! Its the vice-president who isn't worth a bucket of warm spit. Not congress! Certainly not CONGRESS?

#85
Laura Bush is coming to my state this week for a fundraiser for Mark Kennedy. I want to see how many people attend this little soiree.

outrageous! i am outraged at the very sight of the words: gay marriage! and i will vote for the first politico who promises to remove them from my sight!

So, Saladin and Robert Schwartz - you believe polygamy and incest should be legalized?

You Corn-nuts sure have a short attention span! Gay marriage is what gave the Republicans victory in 2004.

______________________________________________

The Brookings Institution, November 5, 2004

Political experts at the Brookings Institution today analyzed the election results and their implications for politics and policymaking over the next few years. They said the nation still remained closely divided, notwithstanding the solid Republican victory.

Democrats assumed was necessary to carry the State, and still lost. In Ohio, where Kerry was also defeated, he received 500,000 more votes than the targeted number. The problem, according to Corrado, was that Republican turnout efforts were a staggering successful development that few anticipated.

"We probably underestimated the motivation in this core Republican constituency," said Mann, who had predicted a Kerry win in this election. "We figured that most of the anger was on the Democratic side, and we really didn't appreciate the extent to which other Americans felt that the whole nature of their belief systems—¥heir faith, their lifestyles—∑ere being threatened, and this was an opportunity to act on that. I think Karl Rove understood that."

Brookings Visiting Fellow Michael McDonald, who worked with the exit-polling firm Edison-Mitofsky on Election Day, saw that Republican anger play out all over the country.
"Gay marriage was clearly pulling people to the polls," McDonald said, citing evidence that battleground states with a gay marriage saw a 6.6 percent increase in voter turnout. Voter turnout in non-battleground states with a similar initiative saw the voter turnout increase by 4.5. (By way of comparison, turnout in the battleground states generally increased by 6.9 percent, while it rose only 1.6 percent in non-battleground states without a gay marriage initiative.)

factchecker,
find a new talking point. America is not behind you. You sound like the freaky ministers who get caught taking little boys into the closet. Doth protest too much.

factchecker, I believe you should mind your own damn business! Any consenting adult should be allowed to marry any other consenting adult they please. Any potential consequences are on the participating parties. You can't legislate morality, haven't you "conservatives" learned that after all these centuries?

Jeanne, MORAL CRISIS? The whole fucking country is in a moral crisis, and it has nothing to do with who you like to have sex with!

By Saladin

Correct, the moral crisis is due to: "LIBERALISM"

Take away a child's innocence and liberal judges and lawyers want to understand what caused you to do it. Was it your mother's fault for not breast-feeding you?

Rape and kill dozens of innocent people like Ted Bundy did and the same folks want to file appeal after appeal on why your sorry life should be spared from the executioner.

Come across the borders illegally and we offer you a pathway to citizenship as well as educate, feed and clothe your children for free.

Yes, liberalism is the disease that infects our society.

#92
LBH,
Read my posts above. Mine are current not from 2 years ago. AMERICA DOESN'T CARE about your lame talking points.

Now whenever our friends, the right wing neocons get stuck on a subject I try to figure out what they want us to veer away from. I think it's the market...Happy it was down 199 points. The nasdaq was down too. The economy is slowing down. Good news!!! A buyers market.

Or it could be the problems in Iraq. What a freaking mess.
Victim's Brother Speaks: New Evidence Undermines U.S. Iraq Claims

New evidence may suggest cover-ups in two separate incidents at the center of a simmering scandal over Iraqi civilian deaths at the hands of American forces.

Iraqi anger is percolating over the incidents, and over an investigation that cleared U.S. forces in a third case.

A brother of a victim, Hashim Ibrahim Awad Abass, in Al Hamadania, Iraq, told ABC News today that Marines killed his brother needlessly.

...Al Hamdania is not the only incident the Pentagon is investigating.

New pictures offer the first independent evidence that suggests Marines may have covered up what really happened in Haditha, Iraq, where 24 Iraqi civilians were killed in November. The pictures show a house pockmarked with bullet holes, despite the initial claim that a roadside bomb was responsible.

And a new witness has come forward. Iman Waleed Abdul Hameed, a 9-year-old girl, said Marines killed her father, mother, brother, two uncles and grandmother.

Local doctors said the dead included eight women and five children.

Just gotta wonder about the brain dead people that think gay marriage is an issue. Seems that they have something to hide. Maybe a friendly uncle when they were young? Sounds like republicans support the priests that are abusing the kids, Yep great talking points. Dumbass americans once again. Going to get what they deserve good and hard. Ha!!

Jeanne

It's Mr Corns subject, not mine. The poll you sight is only in relation to current important issues and I agree with it.

However, in 2004 gay marriage is what won the election for many repubs because average families, even in blue states like mine, voted down gay marriage by huge majorities.

The reason it's not listed as an important issue is because it is not on any current ballots like in 2004 or it would be at the top of the list.

You and Den are wrong when sighting current polls as if no one cares anymore.

Now about Haditha, you corn-nuts just can't wait to convict our marines on the front lines before proven guilty just like doofus Murtha. Do you believe everything ABC news reports? Maybe you liberals should be more concerned with why this happened and finding some type of therapeudic solution. Who knows maybe they were forced to grow up in a progressive household and just needed to release some anger.

Hey LBH, do you think soldiers who kill civilians should be court-martialed - tried on the facts - and given suitable punishment if they are guilty or should we look the other way because the civilians were Iraqis and their lives are worth much?

The sexcapades is a distraction - the hooker/gay/bi-Bush story has all of the indications of Rovian BS.

First the claim (think Rather memo's) then absolute proof to debunk the claim, while giving the handful (bottom 30%) of supporters reason to get all uppity up!

The gay marriage ban is just the setting for this BS.

It may be true, but the fake claim will eclipse any real investigation and make the subject um, . . er, , radioactive for any Mainstream Media-ocrity employee to ever mention again.

They will be all in a huff about the SCLM jumping to erroneous conclusions and thereby cloud the issue (think TXNG-ALNG nobody ever collected the money by proving they saw Bush there).

Not to mention, Bush has PLENTY of crimes to answer for that are completely political, moral, and constitutionally based., fully impeachable and clearly prosecutable.

It is a game of lewd and vicious lascivious innuendo that makes the sick little puppies ears perk-up - nothing more fun than talking about others and what they THINK others are doing. It is juvenile and childish to the point of ridiculous.

And the "so you like polygamy and bestiality" is an pathetic an implied insult as I have ever heard.

Well, that is what I think, who knows? Frankly I really do not care just want to make my prediction that this is Rove cut loose from policy.

A kind of "push polling" with hookers, Las Vegas and a few disposable reputations - but what do I know?

(H/T to Pat for Media-ocrity!)

Thanks

capt

#73 This anti-gay marriage stunt is going to backfire on the busheviks and they already know it. After GWB gave his radio address on Saturday, the finger-in-the-wind types found people are sick of Rove's political hack games.

They made a big deal announcing that Bush was going to make a *major statement* on Monday (today), then found people aren't buying. So Bush, who some say is accustomed to playing switch-hitter, switched locations for his *press conference* to a less public location. A closet?

Wait and see. When it's REALLY apparent that this marriage amendment is a major fuckup, the fundie/cons will say the media hyped it.

The only people that should be charged and convicted is the politicians and military brass that started an illegal and unwarranted invasion of a country that had no WMD's and was never able to threaten us or even their neighbors.

We teach our troops to be killers - that is a must to win in life or death conflicts, then we tell them to become targets - so we can expose those that oppose our illegal invasion, we tell our well trained and very able troops to become PR front men for an unnecessary occupation. We tell them to make it all better, to fix the mistakes in policy and make up the difference for the lack of a plan.

If the killers become murderers they are wrong and should be held to account but not more or less than the reason they are put in such a situation.

Just one more reason we do not start wars, we Americans are not aggressors. We do not "do" that role very well.

IMHO

capt

#11 Capt

I missed this earlier, but I loved your wording, neocons "over stroked" the issue of the gay marriage amendment. Brilliant. Did you intend it?

My sister and I just got back from an outing with the Republican ladies I mentioned earlier, and there was a very mixed response to the WMR report on Bush's possible homosexual trysts. My sister, God she can be shrewd, reminds me that William Bennett had just recently come out with admitting that he had a severe gambling problem. Las Vegas, Leola McConnell, prositute, oh, Bennett's name just reeks of this stuff.

#36 James

Marvelously funny. Love your HA reports. Keep them coming.

By means of shrewd lies, unremittingly repeated, it is possible to make people believe that heaven is hell -- and hell heaven. The greater the lie, the more readily it will be believed.
Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 - 1968)

Would you who judge of the lawfulness or unlawfulness of pleasure, take this rule; whatever weakens your reason, impairs the tenderness of your conscience, obscures your sense of God, or takes off the relish of spiritual things; in short; whatever increases the strength and authority of your body over your mind, that is sin to you; however innocent it may be in itself.
Robert Southey (1774 - 1843)

If one speaks or acts with a cruel mind, misery follows, as the cart follows the horse... If one speaks or acts with a pure mind, happiness follows, as a shadow follows its source.
the Dhammapada

The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye. The more light you shine on it, the more it will contract.
Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. (1841 - 1935)

****

Let all of us loony lefty liberal progressive keep shining tha light on the dark places in some people's hearts.

#103,

Whoop's was that a pun? I thought the pre-release of moderates was the pun! HA!

See, I do try to be funny, just no obvious skill or talent. OW~!

capr

Gay Marriage:
1.Should be decided solely by the states, not by an amendment to the United States Constitution.
2.This is a ridiculous ploy to garner favor from people like me. But I, as a staunch proponent of the Tenth Amendment, am not impressed.
3.But in several instances, gay marriages have been foisted upon the states by the state courts (see Massachusetts).

I'm with you until #3. Why do people think every voter in the Commonwealth has the right to affirm or deny another person's right to marriage? Do we have the right to affirm or deny another voter's right to vote - such as women or blacks? to own property? to speak freely? to pursue life, liberty and happiness? NO,of course not.

Gay people are people first and gay second. Traditionally they have been denied rights you and I take for granted including the right to have a family licensed by the State with all the rights and responsibilities assigned thereto.

The Mass State Supreme Court recognized it was unconstitutional in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to deny same-sex partners the right to obtain a marriage license. What's the big deal? The court has also subsequently limited the finding to clarify that same-sex marriages licensed in the Commonwealth are NOT recognized in states that do not recognize same-sex marriage.

Most people oppose same-sex marriage out of fear, ignorance or a moral judgement. (How could it be right if he sticks his thing in his thing?)

It seems evangilsts cannot be pious unless they point their stubby little fingers at heathen sinners and judge them. . . and deny them rights under the law.

Whether you agree that same-sex couples should have the same rights as heterosexual couples or some leesor rights such as civil unions, you have to come to terms with the actual reasons why you think that's appropriate. What is tht reason?

#40 James

Impressively sincere.

Proof of the fix on the Bush Butt ranger story.

The gal (hooker whatever) did not EVER want to bring this up before now? Hmmm, She says she did not want to bring it up but the sheer hyprocrisy of the Gay Marriage ban makes her feel she MUST bring it up now? Hmmmm. (hint Gay marriage was brought up for the 2004 election too).

A hooker would be the type to run inside the Rovian circles and the gay thing is likely true but outrageous enough to both shock and spike an interest in those that hate.

Pure conjecture on my part.

capt

#35 Jeanne

At first I thought you were just being funny. Then I realized I hadn't made myself clear. I referred to the Hesse quote to give more sustenance to the WMR report first posted by Saladin on Bush's possible homosexual explorations. I think this a very plausible item. Bush, I mean. It makes some sense when you put all of your thoughts and knowledge together.

Jeanne & Saladin

You say people don't agree with me? Well, every state in which there has been a referendum on this matter has overwhelmingly voted in favor of the traditional definition of marriage. Even overwhelmingly liberal Oregon voted 57-43 in 2004 to ban same-sex marriage. That's to "ban" same-sex marriage, not just to "disapprove" of it.

Most polls today are in the 58-39 range (remaining percentge having no option).

And you say we can't legislate morality? How about I think it's moral to murder people. Are you going to try to legislate my morality in that area?

The idea that we can't legislate morality is just silly. All of our laws are manifestations of our ideas of what is "moral".

And please understand that this is not a fight started by the conservatives. This was thrust upon us by an unelectd Massachusetts Supreme Court.

And,I understand other people have different sexual proclivities. Go do it - just don't call it marriage.

Bunnypants is only pandering to the religous right to keep his popularity falling below 30%. You can also bet it will not get much better because Rove is a horses ass.

Rick, @ #60, keep asking; but don't hold your breath. Hapless is known for ignoring questions that might put him in a hypocritical bind. He won't admit to crapping in the minds of young folks because it opens him up to the "do as I say - not as I do" line of criticism. Another instance of his moral cowardice -- preaching about name-calling and using swear words, all the while doing both.

Jeanne, I rather like the "panty" moniker. It has a kinky intonation that cracks me up. I don't think he means it maliciously.

Hapless, you oughta take a page from Factchecker and thank him for coming to your rescue. Since you're too cowardly to address the lfpr question directly yourself, however, you remain utterly Hapless.

Why is it that when the market tanks, you play kick the cat? (boss kicks Hapless, Hapless goes home to kick the cat) Are the money Lords that you serve kicking you about as the market takes those freaky nosedives? It's mad money, baybee, mad money. Go back to last week when the big drops happened and your tone turned noticeably sour. Call yourself Happy all you want, your pissy tone tells a different story.

Factchecker. I read the Brookings institute study and got all the backup that I needed to prove my earlier contention (that the Bush economy is driving folks out of the workforce). Explanations for the precipitous drop in the lfpr come in two flavors, as a cyclical component of the economy and as a sign of deeper flaws in the labor force:
[after a sharp upturn in the 90s] "As the economy turned down in early 2001, the participation rate dropped back and remained low, reflecting the extended period of employment declines and persistent lack of job opportunities that followed the recession." [page 4 of the PDF file -- page 3 of the study]

As for your contention that a drop in the participation rates of teens being the primary cause of the drop. The study doesn't count that as a chief component of the sudden disappearance of Americans from the employment rolls:
"First, the aging of the baby boom cohort has been raising the share of the population in age groups for which participation rates have historically been much lower than for younger groups, and this compositional change has been putting downward pressure on the aggregate participation rate." [ibid]

A corollary of the weakness in the labor market is the inaccurate representation that the "drop" in the much-reported unemployment rate signifies:
"If, instead, a significant portion of the decline is the result of structural developments in the labor market, the unemployment rate may be giving the appropriate signal of current economic slack, and the implications for the potential growth of the economy would be less optimistic." [p. 2 of the PDF, p. 3 of the report]

(EmPHASis mine in each of the above cases)

Even by looking at the 2004 / 2005 Household data of folks not in the labor force, you can see that the largest drop in participation (400K or so) is in the 55-64 age cohort. That is easily double the drop in the teenage cohort (well, the 16 to 24 age group).

Looking at the Brookings study, what in particular made you think that the teenage subpop caused the drop in the lfpr? I figured that big percentage drop from 54% participation rate in 1995 to 40something% in 2005 might account for your conclusion. That's a huuuuge drop. Maybe I missed something. Help me out.

Gerald and Saladin,

I'm completely against Rangel's proposed bill for a military draft, especially the way's it's written. It's purpose is solely to make a point, and I think one that is easily lost in this atmosphere. It should not just be for a military service, it should be for a national service.

I'm for a national draft for both young men and women. One that would provide choices. One could choose national service in the mode of the original Peace Corps, where one year of college age is given to your country. Helping the poor in Africa, in America or elsewhere--solid good deeds under supervision under the aegis of this service would be applicable. I think devoting a year of national service is a very democratic thing to do, it would be truly fit for a democratic republic.

#111
Get off 2004. The people of the US are starting to understand they have been taken for a ride. Even the conservative Christians understand it was all a con. I'm telling you the people I've seen and talked to are royally pissed off that this waste of a time issue is still on the platform.

#51 Capt

That's it. It doesn't require alot of words or explanations. You put it beautifully, succinctly and astutely. That's it. Let nature be what it is. Let love flourish.

factchecker, first you fret over fathers and sons getting married, or mothers and daughters, now you compare gay marriage to murder? That's a stretch, even for you! Tell me, what gay marriage has ever once interfered with your innate right to pursue life, liberty and happiness? Or anyone's for that matter? Taking life by murder is not a moral issue, it is a rights issue. Interfering with an adults RIGHT to choose the partner they will feel happy with is also a rights issue. It is the psycho fundamentalist right wing that turns it into this morality fiasco. As I have said, MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS! It isn't murder, it's marriage for God's sake!

Imn slowly plowing through the blog while doing household stuff like cooking dinner but, Rick at #60 you stopped me. I almost choked from laughter. I think that's what David C. was kind of saying when he personally addressed Happy with the message, "happy scouting".

Many adults in the Hoosier State reject any form of discrimination based on sexual orientation, according to a poll by the Indiana University Center for Survey Research released by Indiana Equality. 79 per cent of respondents believe gay and lesbian residents should have the same civil protections as others.

Civil unions—currently available in the states of Vermont and Connecticut—give same-sex partners the same legal rights of married couples such as inheritance, insurance and hospital visiting privileges. A California law grants domestic partners the same legal rights of married couples, with the exception of filing joint income tax returns.

The survey did not include a question on same-sex marriage. In May 2004, the state of Massachusetts allowed gay and lesbian partners to apply for marriage licenses, the first state-sanctioned homosexual weddings in the United States.

Polling Data HERE

*****end of clip*****

A few inconvienent facts?

Agree or disagree: Gay/lesbian Hoosiers should have the same civil rights protections as others? 79% to 21%

capt

#85 My dear Saladin

Hold on to yourself, it's just going to get worse. You made it through the stolen 2000 election, 2002 and then the stolen election of 2004. It's intended to get your goat. For some reason the spewing of hatred is par for the course with these people. I think this has gone on throughout history. The best thing we can do, and I'm no f**king model, is to take it one step at a time and not let the a^^holes get the best of us.

What is upsetting you and the rest of us is the length to which they go now, they've past all boundaries of decenthood. We must keep our blood pressure down if we're to do any good.

"And,I understand other people have different sexual proclivities. Go do it - just don't call it marriage."
Posted by: fatchecker at June 5, 2006 09:14 PM

THanks for boiling it down to its rotten core. It's a semantic argument. Call it a civil union or whatever, give them the rights that every spouse enjoys. It won't have the tiniest effect in divorce rates, unemployment, infant mortality rates, poverty rates, the federal deficit or the dead and maimed in Iraq. But it makes the self-righteous feel special. And in today's era of the rubber-stamp, do-nothing Republican Congress, why solve the nations pressing problems when you can make a tiny sliver of the population happy?

#70 Robert S.

Thank you for that article by Cindy Sheehan. I admire her so, she is so brave after losing her son.

James, you're killing me.

Factchecker,

For the life of me I cannot figure why you, Happy and LBH among others post here. What do you get out of this? Are you afraid to post in friendly surroundings? Are you a masochist?

#113 Pande

You are so good. I can't tell you how much I enjoy your posts. Very entertaining and informative.