David Corn Online
 

May 06, 2006

Goss: Clueless at the CIA?

Pardon me, but if Porter Goss cannot figure out why he resigned as CIA director, then he had no business being a spymaster in the first place.

Declining to explain his sudden departure from the agency, Porter Goss cryptically told CNN today that his surprise resignation is "just one of those mysteries." It cannot truly be that he does not know why he's leaving the agency. He cannot be that clueless.

So the real message is: we're not going to tell the American public, who we serve, why there has been an abrupt personnel change at the top of the government agency that is supposed to be protecting the nation from terrorist attacks and other dangers.

The public is owed an explanation, and Goss--as well as George W. Bush--should pay up.

Posted by David Corn at May 6, 2006 08:07 PM

Comments

1

George W. Bush -- should pay up. heh heh heh
heh heh
heh

Posted by: Bob Who at May 6, 2006 08:50 PM

2

It would be just like that Kevin Kline movie Dave, where evil Yalie president has a stroke and is replaced by nice small-town look-alike who fixes everything with good intentions and common sense.

Posted by: clb72 at May 6, 2006 09:37 PM

Posted by: O'Reilly at May 6, 2006 09:40 PM

4

David,

Kings don't have to explain themselves.

God has been talking to W and telling him how to save the world. Regrettably, attacking IRAN and telling the public to "mind their own business" about the Goss resignation are two things on the list.

Accountability is dead.

Long live compassionate tyranny.

Posted by: O'Reilly at May 6, 2006 09:44 PM

5

It might save something to do with the three principle Alqaeda guys they cannot publicy talk about.

Posted by: Damn_Em at May 6, 2006 09:55 PM

6

I'm connfident Tony Snow will be forthcoming about the reason.

BBBWWWWWWAAAAAAAAA HHAAAAAAA HAAAAAA

Posted by: O'Reilly at May 6, 2006 10:05 PM

7

You go, David! That's exactly what my husband and I were saying.

What an insult -- "just one of those mysteries."

Keep talking this up. We don't want "mysteries," we want an explanation.

Keep at 'em, David! Tell your friends who have a forum to do the same.

Posted by: micki at May 6, 2006 10:18 PM

8

A spook who doesn't know shit from shinola! Goss can't solve his own firing -- it's a "mystery." Oy.

Hey, if Goss and Negroponte were at each other because of a turf battle, they SHOULD BOTH BE OUT! Who needs that in the loooooooooooong war on terra?

What a couple of schoolyard bullies!

Posted by: micki at May 6, 2006 10:22 PM

9

I found this posted on the comments in Today in Iraq. Very interesting.
-----------

Thanks for telling the story of your friend Zeynab and her family, Allah yerhamhum.

You made one of the points I wanted to make earlier, but was just too mentally and physically tired. The point is that before Bush liberated Iraqi women, they had freedoms and choices and opportunities. They could gain an education. Even a girl from a poor, uneducated family had available to her the opportunity to become a teacher or an engineer or a doctor or a professor. She could even go abroad for study, and it cost her or her family nothing because it was provided by the government.

That does not mean everything was wonderful and perfect in every way for women - there was some distance to go certainly, and during the first decade plus after the Ba`this took over they made quite a bit of progress. In fact, even in the 80's, when things started sliding downhill due to the war with Iran, there continued to be progress in terms of opportunities and services for women. It was only after the sanctions began and the devastation of the 1991 so-called "Gulf" war that women's status began to deteriorate, as did just about everything in the country. George Bush's invasion, occupation, and attempted takeover and transformation of Iraq has finished the job of taking Iraqi women backward to a place they have never seen before in all Iraq's history.

But I believe the point my dear sister was trying to make with those photos was simply that before they were liberated by George Bush, Iraqi women had the freedom to wear what they liked, and go where they liked and do what they liked, and now they do not. The ability to choose how one dresses is quite indicative of the rest of it, I believe.
Shirin

Posted by: Jeanne at May 6, 2006 10:22 PM

10

Almost makes me wanna get up early to watch the Sunday Morning Spin Cycle...Suds, agitate, spin...rinse, agitate, spin...spin harder...faster!

What an unbalanced load of dirty White(house) laundry we seem to have.

Call the Maytag Man!

-T

Posted by: Hajji at May 6, 2006 10:28 PM

11

BIIIIIIIGGGG Load of something, that is...

Posted by: Hajji at May 6, 2006 10:40 PM

12

One of the rumors going around is that some of the career CIA folks who didn't like the changes Goss was making, had something on him. Don't know what that might be but that is going around.

Posted by: TRH at May 6, 2006 10:43 PM

13

It's not a mystery to me. He got canned, fired, pink slipped. He did a lousy job. Last year lousy was ok but with the Katrina thing lousy stopped working. The people don't buy lousy and for some reason the Bush administration is beginning to actually care what the people think.

Now it's just one half assed decision after another. Good way to run a country. Maybe this will fix the problem. No...maybe this will....no..well...maybe...

The Bush administration is a parasite and it has suddenly found itself without a host. What happens to a parasite without a host? The Bush administration is thrashing around trying to find something to cling to but everybody is backing away. Nothing is working.

Posted by: Jeanne at May 6, 2006 10:44 PM

14

You're clueless!

Posted by: Prof B. Gus D'Gre at May 6, 2006 10:46 PM

15

Confident Democrats Lay Out Agenda
Party Plans Probes Of Administration If It Wins the House

____________________

Democratic leaders, increasingly confident they will seize control of the House in November, are laying plans for a legislative blitz during their first week in power that would raise the minimum wage, roll back parts of the Republican prescription drug law, implement homeland security measures and reinstate lapsed budget deficit controls.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) said in an interview last week that a Democratic House would launch a series of investigations of the Bush administration, beginning with the White House's first-term energy task force and probably including the use of intelligence in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq. Pelosi denied Republican allegations that a Democratic House would move quickly to impeach President Bush. But, she said of the planned investigations, "You never know where it leads to."
_________________

OH MY GOD! LOOK AT THE TERRORIST BOMBS! Nuke Iran!!!

Actually, with Pelosi in the lead, I don't see a whole diaper's load of difference...

Pelosi on MTP...gonna be rainy, cancel paddling, cancel zoo with Allie B...might as well sleep in.

-T

Posted by: Hajji at May 6, 2006 10:48 PM

16

Looks like "This Week" on ABC is all Repugnants...Howard Dean...and more Repugs...
________________
SUNDAY EXCLUSIVE: Senator Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., and Senator Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif.
SUNDAY EXCLUSIVE: Rep. Tom DeLay, R-Tx.
SUNDAY EXCLUSIVE: Howard Dean, chair, Democratic National Committee
ROUNDTABLE: Martha Raddatz, Katrina vanden Heuvel, and George Will
VOICES: Scott McClellan
______________

Hey David...call up Katrina and ask her to repeat, verbatim, Colbert's routine!

Posted by: Hajji at May 6, 2006 10:53 PM

17

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice; Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska, and Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., joined "Face The Nation"

-SNNNNNNNNNNNNXXXXXXXXXXXXXXZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

Posted by: Hajji at May 6, 2006 10:54 PM

18

Jeanne, you are very astute but do you really believe what you wrote, "for some reason the Bush administration is beginning to actually care what the people think."

Care? Care what people think? What people?

They may be apprehensive about what "the people" think, but I do not believe they really give a rip about the hoi polloi -- all they "care" about is maintaining a semblence of acceptability as a cover for their deceptive, dishonest, dictatorial government.

Posted by: micki at May 6, 2006 11:10 PM

19

David, I know why Goss is leaving the Agency after two years! He just can't come right out w/it! Besides, I don't see suspense and speculation hurting him; might even help him.

He resigns just after Valerie Plame signed a 7-figure book deal! Imagine what an ex-CIA Director's book deal maybe worth! Especially now!

Goss is one smart cookie...why let Left Leakers make all that $$...He may as well `strike' while the iron is hot!

Posted by: Happy has the answer at May 6, 2006 11:13 PM

20

semblance...not semblence

always a proof reader, but generally too late...

Posted by: micki at May 6, 2006 11:14 PM

21

What happened with Sr. Goss is not surprising. It has something to do with the Rove investigation.

Posted by: Carey at May 6, 2006 11:58 PM

22

12 I was spreading that rumor. As far as I know it is pure speculation.

Posted by: O'Reilly at May 7, 2006 12:26 AM

23

I'm happy he's gone. I enjoy watching this administration and the conservative xian fuckwits lose players and the respect of the public in scandal after fuck-up after mishandling, etc. The spineless idiots we call dems could really be raking in the votes if they pushed hard enough. The polls show the American people want these incompetent losers out of Congress and the WH, and rather than give them a viable alternative, the dems squirm and avoid the issues. Does anyone have a third testicle they don't mind donating to the democratic party? Maybe a steel rod to prop up a droning (D) corpse? A few dozen volts to wake them up and make them appear human long enough for us to vote for them?

I'm not holding my breath.

Posted by: goob at May 7, 2006 12:28 AM

24

Hajji,

Thanks for the tip about the guests on This Week.

Maybe Katrina (David's collegue at The Nation?) will make George Will apoplectic again This Week. She takes no shit from him.

Sometimes, when Will is debating with Katrina, he gets so inflammed he can't sputter out a response, which is rare for the perpetually emotionally detached George Will.

Posted by: O'Reilly at May 7, 2006 12:35 AM

25

21 Interesting idea Carey.

Posted by: O'Reilly at May 7, 2006 12:45 AM

26

FYI: You can enter the Publisher's Clearing House sweepstakes online at pch.com. There's also a place to click for PCH Lotto. There's also luckysurf.com--all free to enter. I enter every day--for free, why not?

Posted by: Kid Charlemagne at May 7, 2006 12:48 AM

27

I know why Goss is leaving the Agency after two years! [Book deal.]
Passed by:M.B. CILE

u r clueless

.

Posted by: O'Reilly at May 7, 2006 12:53 AM

28

Mr. David Corn,

GREAT and GOOD stuff!

I think (as usual) you are asking the right questions just ahead of the curve.

The sad thing is that this WH does not care enough to even try to lie? That is curious but not altogether surprising.

Like so many other things that are on a "need to know" basis, the WH thinks we "the people" should not be in the loop. We have no authority over anything but dying and paying taxes.

Gives me that warm feeling all over - you know the rest.

Thanks for all of your work.

(I swear I heard a rumor about a book?)

Kirk

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 01:02 AM

29

"I do not believe they really give a rip about the hoi polloi -- all they "care" about is maintaining a semblance of acceptability as a cover for their deceptive, dishonest, dictatorial government."

EXACTLY what I was thinking - and well said.

I would have added "Dastardly" but that might have pushed the alliteration a bit too far.

capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 01:09 AM

30

Dastardly, deceptive, dishonest and dictatorial.
D A M N

When a problem comes along, you must whip it.
Are we not men? D E V O

Posted by: O'Reilly at May 7, 2006 01:23 AM

31

Does anyone have a third testicle they don't mind donating to the democratic party?

*he said third testicle

2 fkn funeee

Hella fight tonight! Went to the VFW for the pay-per-view of de la Hoya vs Mayorga fight. Good friends and cold Bud Lights... you can't beat that with a stick! *unless Hajii showed up with some special brews

Posted by: Alan at May 7, 2006 01:32 AM

32

Corn Resigns: Mum's the Word
J.Doe | TPN | 4/6/6

I heard a rumor that David Corn resigned yesterday (Friday) without explanation. He had been on the job 18 months. The Executive Editor at The Nation accepted his resignation without comment. When asked for the reason, David said, "I don't know why I resigned." Speculation runs rampant in the blogosphere.

At Firedoglake Christy blogged this: "Corn's gone? Good! He was one of our toughest competitors." And this from Glenn Greenwald, "It is a sad day for The Union and The Rule of Law. Don't be fooled by the ?No comment? explanation for his resignation. There is a nefarious impetus and I for one, and for the good of the country, am going to get to the bottom of this." And from one of Corn's own 'cornbloggers' M.B.Cile "I know why he resigned. Plame got a six-digit book deal. Corn is going to strike while the iron is hot."

David Shuster, Murray Waas, Jason Leopold, and Dana Priest were unavailable for comment.

Posted by: O'Reilly at May 7, 2006 01:39 AM

33

Whenever I see the word "Dastardly", I think of Muttley. The rest of the Wacky Racers follow shortly. :) Saturday mornings...

Posted by: Kid Charlemagne at May 7, 2006 02:07 AM

34

Dastardly and Muttley
_____________

Cuttin' through a lot of fog, there, KC!

-T

Posted by: Hajji at May 7, 2006 07:53 AM

35

The greatest sin in the Republican universe is telling the truth about anything at any time to anyone who is not a member of the RNC. Goss can't afford to be truthful if he expects to get a presidential medal of freedom and $20,000 per hour speaking fees. Of course, the book advance contract has to be kept in mind. Now that he is unemployed he as to worry about paying his overhead out of pocket.

Posted by: Kalmani at May 7, 2006 09:08 AM

36

Goss resigns? Another one of those "Unknowable" things like the Iraq war. Idjits.

Posted by: What the F**k at May 7, 2006 09:28 AM

37

Ex-CIA chief (Goss) tells graduates to help gov't. ("Admit nothing, deny everything, and make counteraccusations.")
Source: Seattle Post-Intelligencer

Before commencement, Goss met privately for an hour with students enrolled in the university's national security studies program. Corinne Blake, a junior from Akron, Ohio, said afterward that Goss was in an upbeat mood while taking questions from students. No one asked him directly why he resigned, she said.

"We were informed ahead of time he wasn't there to talk about current events," Blake said.

Goss told the graduating students that if he were addressing a graduating class of CIA case officers, he would advise them, "Admit nothing, deny everything, and make counteraccusations."
---------------
Just following the bushco creed, to the bitter end.


Posted by: Saladin at May 7, 2006 10:05 AM

38

"Dastardly" makes me think of the villain on Dudley Doright - black cape, top hat and waxed mustachioed villain tying a gal in a white dress to the railroad tracks or the classic lumber mill saw conveyor belt.


capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 10:09 AM

39

"Admit nothing, deny everything, and make counteraccusations."


That is the same advice I received from an attorney friend of mine. He even included: "Even if they have you on video - admit nothing."

He was a divorce lawyer but the same refrain.

capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 10:13 AM

40

It seems to work doesn't it?

Posted by: What the F**k at May 7, 2006 10:27 AM

41

As long as enough people are fine with that tactic it will work.

Posted by: Saladin at May 7, 2006 10:36 AM

42

Gasoline price 101 or Pain at the pump.
The Mogambo serves a bit of humor with the ugly reality.
----------

I got a real laugh out of the headline at Associated Press that read "The Battle Over the Blame for Gas Prices". Hahaha! The article figures that it is either greedy oil sellers or gluttonous buyers. Or, as others say, Congress. And while all these people are all guilty to one huge degree or another, everybody entirely misses the point, which is that while Americans might enjoy getting dollars in exchange for goods and services, the people of the oil-exporting countries do not want dollars or euros or yuan or any other money. They want their own money, doofus.

But what all these groups of people have is common is that they all want to be paid in their own units of purchasing power, which (at $75 a barrel) is about ten pizzas. It makes no difference to them what kind of money you use to pay for the oil, as long as they can exchange it for ten pizzas. Preferably, they would like to be paid in units of purchasing power that GAIN in purchasing power, so that tomorrow they can buy eleven pizzas for a barrel of oil. And if not gain, then at least not lose purchasing power, and tomorrow only be able to buy six pizzas!

Unfortunately, the dollar is NOT a currency that is going to gain in purchasing power. It is, on the other hand, one of those currencies that are going to lose purchasing power. So, everybody, including foreign oil exporters, have to charge a higher price for oil just to make up the losses in purchasing power they will suffer until they can actually get around to spending the damned dollars on pizzas!

As we now see, class, there are other reasons for rising gasoline prices, and one important one was found on WorldNewsTrust.org. It read that the ministers of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries said "Soaring commodity and raw material prices are increasing the cost of oil and gas projects by up to three times. Qatari Oil Minister Abdullah al Attiyah said: 'Our costs have tripled from two years ago, due to high (commodity) prices. And it's not just that, it is also contractors who have tripled their prices.' " I laugh! Doubled costs and tripled prices? Hahahaha! They themselves must laugh uproariously when they hear that our government always says that there is no inflation! Hahahaha!

So, the next time you are watching in horror as that gasoline pump is sucking the money out of your wallet ("sluuuurrrrp!") and you wonder why gasoline costs so much, don't be like me and get mad and go running up to the clerk and calling him a cheating, thieving little over-charging bastard from hell. Experience has shown that it won't help.

And anyway, it usually turns out that the kid had nothing to do with the price of gas, but instead the price of gasoline is up because the purchasing power of the dollar fell! And the dollar fell in purchasing power thanks to the horrid Federal Reserve, which has been creating excess money and credit with their every waking moment since the dreadful moment when that hideous creature of fraud and corruption was created in 1913, which was (as Mogambo musicologists know) the inspiration behind the classic Mogambo reggae tune, "The Fed'ral Reserve Be Killin' Me Money, Mon!" which contains the immortal line "Based on lies, and founded on the sly, based on lies and founded on the sly in 1913, mon, me money goin' down, mon, me money goin' down!"
------------
UGH!


Posted by: Saladin at May 7, 2006 10:55 AM

43

Yes, as long as people believe in the fifth amendment we might be able to preserve it.

Protection from self incrimination covers criminals, spooks and a few citizens that know about it. Thank goodness some of us believe in that nefarious constitutional right.

capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 10:58 AM

44

capt, it appears that the 5th AND justice, by that I refer to the means to jail criminals without violating rights, cannot coexist in this country, I'm not sure why.

Posted by: Saladin at May 7, 2006 11:05 AM

45

The NeoCon Motto: Never Lose Faith In Someone Who Tells You What You Want To Hear


In January, prominent neo-conservative Michael Ledeen (Karl Rove's point man on foreign policy), writing for the National Review, reported that Osama Bin Laden had died last December:

"And, according to Iranians I trust, Osama bin Laden finally departed this world in mid-December. The al Qaeda leader died of kidney failure and was buried in Iran, where he had spent most of his time since the destruction of al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

On April 23, Al-Jazeera broadcast a tape from Bin Laden (which the Bush administration believes is authentic) where he refers to events that occurred in late March. Ledeen responded the next day:

Bin Laden Tape [Michael Ledeen]Obviously, if that was really bin Laden, I was misinformed and I in turn misinformed readers by passing it on then I reported being told that bin Laden died in Iran in mid-December. I've gone back to my sources, who are serious people who have been accurate in the past, and I should hear back in a few days.

Well, nearly two weeks have past and we haven't heard anything else from Ledeen about the subject. (His original article remains on National Review, without correction or comment.)

The moral: never believe neo-conservatives with "trustworthy" and "serious" sources who tell them what they want to hear.

*****end of clip*****

A little bit on Ledeen - (even typing his name is EW!)


capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 11:11 AM

46

"Courage is of no value unless accompanied by justice; yet if all men became just, there would be no need for courage." ~ Agesilaus the Second

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 11:15 AM

47

From SNL Weekend News:

Porter Goss has resigned to pursue a career as a scapegoat.


capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 11:22 AM

48

House panels add billions more to proposed defense budget


WASHINGTON Ñ Congressional committees prepared Wednesday to add billions of dollars in additional spending to a 2007 defense budget proposal that already is the largest in more than 50 years.

The House Armed Services Committee worked into the night on its amendments to the $439 billion spending blueprint submitted by President Bush in February, adding more than $5 billion for new weapons and a pay increase for uniformed forces, among other programs.

Similar efforts were under way in the Senate Armed Services Committee, which followed tradition by conducting its budget deliberations in private. The committee, led by Sen. John W. Warner, R-Va., is expected to complete work today and Рlike its House counterpart Рmake only modest changes to the administrationճ proposal.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

We need to increase the military budget?


capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 11:30 AM

49

capt, dastardly is a good word to add! I like that word...but on another note:

So, what are the retired generals, who oppose bush on his Iraq War management and his refusal to fire Rumsfeld, going to say about the possibility of a GENERAL -- Michael Hayden -- as head of CIA?

Remember back during the hunt for the SNIPERS (John Malvo and the other guy) when bush (The Decider) decided to use the military? Many said that was a clear breach of the Posse Comitatus Act, the law that bars the armed forces from participating in law enforcement. bush ordered the Pentagon to deploy military spy planes to catch the "evildoer." No matter what one thinks of the Posse Comitatus Act, setting a precedent for the "political acceptability" of intermingling law enforcement and the military, and possibly the CIA could be bad news for civil liberties -- and for ALL OF US!

Because many of us are suspicious of just about everything the cheney/bush White House does, naming a military general as head of CIA could be another step to accustom the U.S. population to the militarization of American society, huge governmental changes, and to strengthen federal police powers.

Just a thought.

Posted by: micki at May 7, 2006 11:31 AM

50

Chalabi involved US, Iran policy making again, current and former intelligence officials say

Ahmed Chalabi, the man who helped provide cooked intelligence on Iraq to the Pentagon and the New York Times in the lead-up to war, is once again being engaged in US policy decisions, current and former intelligence officials say.

According to two former high level counterintelligence officials, one former senior counterterrorist official and another intelligence officer, Chalabi is acting as broker between the US Ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad, and Iranian officials in what are now stalled diplomatic efforts between the US and Iran.

"[Ahmed] Chalabi inserted himself and brought a proposal to Zel," one intelligence source said.

Intelligence officials say the proposal that Chalabi delivered asked both the US and Iran to focus diplomatic talks on the Iraqi insurgency, leaving all discussion of Iran's nuclear program off the table. The talks, however, are now stalled.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

I hear they have rehabilitated "Curveball" too. He does his 12 step (well a 2 step 6 times) and has a clear take on what his handlers want to hear. Something about mobile centrifuges on flatbeds or something like that.


capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 11:36 AM

51

Democrats will stand by U.S. Rep. implicated in bribery scandal

Democrats in the House of Representatives will not put public pressure on Rep. William Jefferson (D-LA) to resign his position, even though he has been tied to the receipt of bribes in excess of $450,000, RAW STOY has learned.

A report in today's Roll Call claims that, behind the scenes, Democratic leaders including Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), hope for Jefferson's departure from Congress. Internal party politics, claims the article, are preventing leaders from speaking out in public on the matter.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

I think the Democrats are missing an opportunity to show up the GOPhers.

I do not believe in convicting before a trial, that would be conviction on rumor but the Democrats could stand up, do something, make a strong condemnation of ANY illegal act, anything but sound as bad as the GOPhers.

Instead they come across as insincere. At minimum they should repeat what they have said about the oppositions criminals.

IMHO - This is poor leadership, poor ethics, and another lost opportunity to just do the right thing.

capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 11:52 AM

52

Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer


BELIEVING that God created the universe in six days is a form of superstitious paganism, the Vatican astronomer Guy Consolmagno claimed yesterday.

Brother Consolmagno, who works in a Vatican observatory in Arizona and as curator of the Vatican meteorite collection in Italy, said a "destructive myth" had developed in modern society that religion and science were competing ideologies.

He described creationism, whose supporters want it taught in schools alongside evolution, as a "kind of paganism" because it harked back to the days of "nature gods" who were responsible for natural events.

Brother Consolmagno argued that the Christian God was a supernatural one, a belief that had led the clergy in the past to become involved in science to seek natural reasons for phenomena such as thunder and lightning, which had been previously attributed to vengeful gods. "Knowledge is dangerous, but so is ignorance. That's why science and religion need to talk to each other," he said.

"Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which at the end of the day is a kind of paganism - it's turning God into a nature god. And science needs religion in order to have a conscience, to know that, just because something is possible, it may not be a good thing to do."

Brother Consolmagno, who was due to give a speech at the Glasgow Science Centre last night, entitled "Why the Pope has an Astronomer", said the idea of papal infallibility had been a "PR disaster". What it actually meant was that, on matters of faith, followers should accept "somebody has got to be the boss, the final authority".

"It's not like he has a magic power, that God whispers the truth in his ear," he said.

*****end of clip*****

"Knowledge is dangerous, but so is ignorance. That's why science and religion need to talk to each other," he said.

Creationism is kind of like paganism. I am not so sure I have a problem with paganism as much as I do with organized religion.

Interesting take from a different POV.


capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 12:14 PM

53

"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.


"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

~ Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 12:18 PM

54

capt, I've always thought of God as the great universal scientist. Since science is used in creation, why can't the idiot 6000 year ID cult use it as well?

Posted by: Saladin at May 7, 2006 12:39 PM

55

They seem to think God (their God) is great but is not great enough to have created everything and he (again their guy) is great but he could not see humans in the primordial soup - or the big bang?

Jeeze, I think science just is a way to understand the complexity of what we have going here in the physical world which is only one facet of what is.


capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 12:45 PM

56

I am truly amazed as to how much and how far the Nazis will go to protect Bushitler, a murderer and a war criminal.

Posted by: Gerald at May 7, 2006 01:10 PM

57

I for one, don't care why he resigned. He was just another stoolie for the administration. The next person will be the same.

Posted by: thinker at May 7, 2006 01:28 PM

58

You can see the video at crooks and liars, but remember this? Mr. Knowledgeable on the 4th Amendment...


Landay: "...the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution specifies that you must have probable cause to violate an American's right against unreasonable searches and seizures..."

Gen. Hayden: "No, actually - the Fourth Amendment actually protects all of us against unreasonable search and seizure."

Landay: "But the --"

Gen. Hayden: "That's what it says."

Landay: "The legal measure is probable cause, it says."

Gen. Hayden: "The Amendment says: unreasonable search and seizure."

Landay: "But does it not say 'probable cause'?"

Gen. Hayden [exasperated, scowling]: "No! The Amendment says unreasonable search and seizure."

Landay: "The legal standard is probable cause, General -- "

Gen. Hayden [indignant]: "Just to be very clear ... mmkay... and believe me, if there's any Amendment to the Constitution that employees of the National Security Agency are familiar with, it's the Fourth. Alright? And it is a reasonableness standard in the Fourth Amendment. The constitutional standard is 'reasonable'"

Posted by: micki at May 7, 2006 01:39 PM

59

WATCH PORTER GOSS ROLL HIS EYES WHEN bush MENTIONS OSAMA

Remember this? Funny...but not so funny.

Posted by: micki at May 7, 2006 01:47 PM

60

thinker, that was actually my first thought as well, for every traitorous criminal to leave that whorehouse on the Potomac there are ten more waiting in line to take it's place.

Posted by: Saladin at May 7, 2006 01:49 PM

61

#18
Micki,
I was being silly. Caring about the nation is so far beyond the Bush administation's capablity it is hard for me to comprehend.

Posted by: Jeanne at May 7, 2006 02:13 PM

62

Howard Dean was soooo good on This Week with George S. He just slammed the guests including the hammer. And he did it with one answer. He was excellent. Senator Saxby Chambliss was on talking about how the CIA had such terrible information on the run up to the Iraq war and 9/11. It was all their fault. And then Howard Dean gets on and says that the CIA is not the problem here and we need to stop blaming the CIA. The Bush administration chose to ignore the information the CIA gave them. He blew the Republican talking point out of the water and straight to the moon. This was after he nailed DeLay to the wall. I bet you DeLay was pissed. His manipulation of the public was made useless in one 30 second answer by Dean.

Here's the rest of the interview. Go to the right side and click on the Dean interview.

Dean No Impeachment for Bush

Posted by: Jeanne at May 7, 2006 02:40 PM

63

Well, I'm going to go out and plant my bleeding hearts. Isn't that a good plant for a liberal?

Posted by: Jeanne at May 7, 2006 02:41 PM

64

Heard the last few moments of something on the radio (not even sure which station):

Someone was saying that the people that visit and view the founding documents - Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights and Constitution have so many that view them start crying, they have had to put out tissue boxes.

I wonder if that has ever happened before?

I know when I toured around DC I never saw tears except at the wall (Vietnam war memorial)

Our country has been stolen out from under democracy and the people.

*sigh*


capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 03:02 PM

65

DeLay sez : "high gas prices and a dearth of ethics will not stop the Republicans from stealing the midterms"

(I paraphrased and added)

Hard to lose with Diebold, ES&S and the others in their pocket.

Maybe the midterm landslide for the Neocons will start the revolution? If they do steal it I know I will be tempted to reacted very badly. The first time I hear "Sour grapes" or some such thing I fear steam will blow out my ears like a cartoon character.

capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 03:07 PM

66

On HuffingtonPost today there is a link to an article about the melting of the tibetan glaciers. Looks really bad for China and people in southeast Asia...

Posted by: David B. Benson at May 7, 2006 03:35 PM

67

An RBI for DB:

Ice-capped roof of world turns to desert


Scientists warn of ecological catastrophe across Asia as glaciers melt and continent's great rivers dry up


Global warming is rapidly melting the ice-bound roof of the world, and turning it into desert, leading scientists have revealed.

The Chinese Academy of Sciences - the country's top scientific body - has announced that the glaciers of the Tibetan plateau are vanishing so fast that they will be reduced by 50 per cent every decade. Each year enough water permanently melts from them to fill the entire Yellow River.

*****end of clip*****

The world is changing fast. See it while you can!


capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 03:42 PM

68

#62 Jeanne, Howard Dean is hoping that Bushitler will be tried as a murderer and a war criminal at the International Criminal Court in The Hague, Netherlands.

Posted by: Gerald at May 7, 2006 03:51 PM

69

Pfizer Illegally Tested Unapproved Drug On Children In Nigeria

During an epidemic in Nigeria in 1996, Pfizer illegally tested an unapproved drug on children with brain infections, says a panel of Nigerian medical experts. According to the report, published in the Sunday (today) edition of the Washington Post, this violated international law. The report was completed five years ago, but never came out in the open.

According to the report, the Nigerian government had not authorised Pfizer to administer Trovan, the unauthorized drug, on 100 children. Trovan was administered to children and babies in Kano, Nigeria. Trovan was an experimental antibiotic drug.

According to the report, three laws were violated:

1. Nigerian Law
2. The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child
3. The International Declaration of Helsinki related to medical research

The Ôillegal' drug trial resulted in the death of five children. Many children also went on to develop arthritis. Approved drugs were available and being administered at the field hospital were the Trovan trial was taking place. The Washington post states that the international medical charity organisation, Doctors Without Borders, were using approved drugs at the same place during that time.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

I really pisses me off that this happened. This is what happens when there is no accountability.

Who really speaks for the dead children? How many more will we never hear about?


capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 03:53 PM

70

No Justification

Dear Cornposters:

Judy Coode wrote an article titled, "Given our Church's profound respect for human dignity, there can be no justification for torture." I will paraphrase what she wrote. The article was published in Pax Christi USA's newspaper, The Catholic Peace Voice. It was in the Spring, 2006 edition.

In early March, the Vatican came out strongly in its insistence that the U.S. is violating the human rights of the Guantanamo detainees. Cardinal Renato Martino, president of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace said, "It is clear that the human dignity is not being fully respected in that prison and is not the trampling of one's dignity a violation of human rights? Everyone has a right to a fair trial. Wherever in the world were inmates are being held in such conditions, without even knowing the charges they face, we will not fail to defend them." The cardinal also said, "I would like to stress that even those who have committed crimes are still human beings and as such their dignity must be respected."

Pax Christi supporters made a statement saying, "We reiterate our Church's profound respect for the dignity of all persons and reject as antithetical to Christianity any and all justifications for the use of torture."

Sr. Dianna Ortiz, OSU, a torture survivor who now advocates for an end to inhuman treatment, writes in the prayer, Jesus, Our Tortured Brother of Today, "Jesus, guiding spirit, teach us to be in solidarity with those who hang from these crosses. Call out for those who torture, 'Know the evil you have done and repent.' Call out to the rest of us, 'What meaning does love have if you allow torture to continue unopposed?'"

Sincerely,

Gerald

Posted by: Gerald at May 7, 2006 03:58 PM

71

A Prayer for Healing

Lord, You invite all who are burdened to come to You.

Allow Your healing hand to heal me.

Touch my soul with Your compassion for others.

Touch my heart with Your courage and infinite love for all.

Touch my mind with Your wisdom, that my mouth may always proclaim Your praise.

Teach me to reach out to You in my need, and help me to lead others to You by my example.

Most loving Heart of Jesus, bring me health in body and spirit that I may serve You with all my strength.

Touch gently this life which You have created, now and forever. Amen.

Posted by: Gerald at May 7, 2006 04:01 PM

Posted by: Gerald at May 7, 2006 04:07 PM

73

Hamas and the Palestinians: Punishing the Innocent is a Crime

Atlanta -- Innocent Palestinian people are being treated like animals, with the presumption that they are guilty of some crime. Because they voted for candidates who are members of Hamas, the United States government has become the driving force behind an apparently effective scheme of depriving the general public of income, access to the outside world and the necessities of life.

Overwhelmingly, these are school teachers, nurses, social workers, police officers, farm families, shopkeepers, and their employees and families who are just hoping for a better life. Public opinion polls conducted after the January parliamentary election show that 80 percent of Palestinians still want a peace agreement with Israel based on the international road map premises. Although Fatah party members refused to join Hamas in a coalition government, nearly 70 percent of Palestinians continue to support Fatah's leader, Mahmoud Abbas, as their president.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Jimmy Carter - best ex-president ever.


capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 04:13 PM

Posted by: Gerald at May 7, 2006 04:13 PM

75

Letter to WRH:

READER: As soon as I heard Goss left "suddenly"...I thought, "He was nudged out, because Bush wanted someone else." Sure enough, two of his top three candidates are Negroponte cronies - and what do they have in common? Domestic spying.
Bush keeps furthering his agenda unabated, and Mike - you're right. Bush's candidate will sail through confirmation hearings, because there aren't enough congresscritters who have had enough of the Bush cabal and evidently don't fear the American voters, either.

WRH: What else do they have in common? South American death squads!
------------
Was goss tired of playing bushco's murderous game? Was he squawking? Will we ever know? Probably not.

Posted by: Saladin at May 7, 2006 04:20 PM

Posted by: Gerald at May 7, 2006 04:21 PM

77

Archeologists discover Maya tomb

EL PERU WAKA, Guatemala (Reuters) -- Archeologists outsmarted tomb raiders to unearth a major Maya Indian royal burial site in the Guatemalan jungle, discovering jade jewelry and a jaguar pelt from more than 1,500 years ago.

The tomb, found by archeologist Hector Escobedo last week, contains a king of the El Peru Waka city, now in ruins and covered in thick rainforest teeming with spider monkeys.

*****end of clip*****

I think the blog has corrupted me. The first thing that comes to mind is MMMMMmmmmmm Spider monkeys!


capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 04:22 PM

Posted by: Gerald at May 7, 2006 04:27 PM

79

capt, what Israel is doing to those people is terrorism, nothing less, check out this story I read this morning,

excerpt:

Hamas sanctions squeeze the life out of West Bank
By Jane Flanagan in Nablus
(Filed: 07/05/2006)

Afrah Jowdad, 32, toyed forlornly with her four prized bracelets for the last time before handing them over to the merchant in the ancient West Bank gold market of Nablus yesterday.

"They were given to me by my husband as a dowry on my wedding day, so to lose them is to lose my best-loved memories," she said. "But I have six children and no other way to pay for food, so I have no option other than selling my bracelets."

Outside the Star Display jewellery emporium, a line of Palestinian women, in traditional hijab dress, queued patiently to sell rings, necklaces and other finery. To sell one's dowry brings shame on Palestinian families but these are such desperate days in Gaza and the West Bank that basic needs prevail over social mores.

"I have never seen anything like this: I am averaging 400,000 shekels [?50,000] of gold purchases every day," said the merchant, Abdel Hakim Hawari, 40.

The rush to sell family heirlooms in the occupied territories is the starkest proof yet of the imminent economic meltdown faced by 3.5 million Palestinians, as sanctions against the new Hamas government begin to bite.

Even before Hamas was elected, the economy was faltering and heavily dependent on financial support from Europe and America. But the decision by Brussels and Washington to withdraw funding until Hamas moderates its militant anti-Israel stance has pushed the fragile economy to collapse.

Overnight the money has dried up as 167,000 public-sector employees, the economy's largest body of earners, no longer receive wages from the Hamas-controlled Palestinian Authority (PA). The impact is all the greater for Israel's clampdown on the territories, which has stopped thousands of Palestinians from crossing into Israel to earn a living.

As government coffers empty and the flow of trade and goods into the Palestinian territories dries up, medical supplies in hospitals are running dangerously low and basic food supplies are unaffordable for most families.

Last week a group of 36 aid agencies working with Palestinians, including the British groups Merlin and Save the Children UK, wrote a joint letter to Israel urging it to fulfil last November's agreement to allow trade in and out of Gaza. Israel has remained insistent on keeping tight checks on traffic to prevent terrorist attacks.

When aid was suspended by Brussels and Washington, Hamas asked Muslim nations for funding and won promises of tens of millions of pounds from friendly Arab nations - only to run into another problem. International banks have refused to transfer these Arab funds to the PA, for fear of being proscribed by the United States banking authorities for helping Hamas, which is on Washington's list of terrorist organisations.

They have reason to be cautious. Five years ago, when al-Aqsa Islamic Bank in the West Bank city of Ramallah was described by President George W Bush as "a financial arm of Hamas'', its global business vanished overnight. Both America and Europe agree that economic sanctions should hurt the Hamas administration, not the Palestinian people. But so far, it is people such as the Jowdads of Nablus, selling family heirlooms, who are making the painful sacrifices.

"I just don't know what is going to happen when people run out of gold to sell," said Mr Hawari, as he raked in the profits from today's high international gold prices. "This cannot go on for ever and, when it finishes, there will be trouble."
-----------
I know there are some here who will wrongly accuse me of anti-Jew sentiment, but I say these actions against innocent people are anti-humane. The US has been propping up murderous terrorist regimes that agree to play by our rules for decades, now here we are backing Israel in this disgusting attempt to starve those people into submitting to our version of demockracy. Maybe the Israel backers should take a trip to Palestine to get the big picture, just be careful of Israeli operated bulldozers, they are merciless.

Posted by: Saladin at May 7, 2006 04:30 PM

Posted by: Gerald at May 7, 2006 04:33 PM

81

It is right to be anti-evil. There are evil folks that claim the mantle of every religion. Being against the evil people is not anti-______ (insert religion name).

Some of the most evil people speak with robust religious rhetoric. There are some real big time wacko's out there, it is insane to think support comes from a blind loyalty to any religion. That would have Christians defending Tim McViegh and Neo-Nazis? Hitler claimed to be a Christian for pity sake. The list is endless.


capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 04:38 PM

82

Tomgram: Grandin on Rumsfeld's Latin American Wild West Show


A do not miss. The military is off the hook with Rumsfeld in charge. I think he is more like Dr. Evil than an American hero.

capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 05:09 PM

83

Re #67: Thank you, capt. What is an RBI?

Posted by: David B. Benson at May 7, 2006 05:25 PM

84

Baseball - Run batted in

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 05:42 PM

85

Bored on a Sunday afternoon! Curious and to entertain, below is the record of one `productive' Cornut on this thread:

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 01:02 AM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 01:09 AM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 10:09 AM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 10:13 AM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 10:58 AM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 11:11 AM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 11:15 AM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 11:22 AM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 11:30 AM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 11:36 AM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 11:52 AM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 12:14 PM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 12:18 PM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 12:45 PM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 03:02 PM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 03:07 PM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 03:42 PM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 03:53 PM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 04:13 PM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 04:22 PM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 04:38 PM
Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 05:09 PM

Please notice that, contraray to perception, mr. capt do seems to sleep sometime between 1 & 10 AM!! In case anyone is wondering, 22 postings!

Posted by: Happy farting around at May 7, 2006 05:49 PM

86

Here's a good article that was pointed out to me by one of the bloggers at the science site.

Elevators were disaster within disaster

here's a couple of grafs from it...

In one way, the elevators played a heroic role that morning. They helped thousands evacuate the south tower before the second jet hit. But the elevator shafts also became the circulation system of the disaster, carrying death and destruction throughout the towers.

Elevator shafts worked like chimneys, funneling unbearable smoke to floors above the crashes. The shafts also channeled burning jet fuel throughout both towers. Fire moved not only up and down but also side to side, from shaft to shaft, unleashing explosions in elevator lobbies and in restrooms next to the shafts.
=================
It's a pretty long article, and there's quotes from survivors.

Posted by: Alan at May 7, 2006 05:59 PM

87

"...unleashing explosions in elevator lobbies and in restrooms next to the shafts."

Uhm...?!!!

It amazes me that with those thousands of gallons of burning jet fuel running down the inside of the elevator shafts almost none of it was running down the outside of the towers...dripping and burning down floor after floor through the breached openings in the buildings' "skin".

Maybe the floors were slanted downward, like a garage floor toward the drain-like elevator shafts?

hmmm....?

-T


Posted by: Hajji at May 7, 2006 06:33 PM

88

Thank you Happy for pointing out that we should be grateful to the good Captain for continually providing many thought-provoking sources of information (AND LINKS!)throughout the day (and quite often!)

Without his and others' energetic contributions, I, for one wouldn't bother to visit this site more than once every couple of days.

A tip of his Gilliganesque sailor's hat to the Skipper from Happy? Who'dathunk it? Maybe he accidentally sat on a tube of Preparation H and has shrunk the painful swelling in his brain?

Just funnin' ya Slappy!

-T

Posted by: Hajji at May 7, 2006 06:41 PM

89

$2.73 a Gallon? Not at First Fuel Banks

ST. CLOUD, Minn. (AP) -- Most motorists are feeling the pain as gasoline creeps toward, or over, $3 a gallon - but not Art Altrichter.

"This feels pretty good!" Altrichter said as he filled the tank of his Ford F-150 pickup for $2.03 a gallon on Thursday, when the average here was $2.73. "Right now, to be a few pennies over $2, when it's as high as it is? That's a real deal."

A year ago, the retired milk truck driver bought 500 gallons of gas at First Fuel Banks, locking it in at the then-current price of $2.03 a gallon. He taps that reserve whenever gas rises above that mark. If the retail price drops below $2.03, he can leave his reserve alone and buy elsewhere.

First Fuel Banks bills itself as the only retailer in the country where customers can buy gasoline for the future and hedge against rising prices. It advertises no service charge and no storage charge, just a $1 lifetime membership fee.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

I think this might be a worthwhile endeavor for our friends in MN!


capt

Thanks Hajji!

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 06:44 PM

90

All in the (Profiteering) First Family

Close relatives of President George W. Bush continue to benefit financially from the Iraq invasion, as revealed by sources including regulatory filings.

St. Louis-based Engineered Support Systems Inc. (EASI), where William H.T. Bush, an uncle of George W. Bush, joined the board of directors in 2000, is a major military contractor. Following the 2000 election and 9/11, the company, which declined to comment for this article, has seen its federal contracts, revenues, and stock price increase.

Engineered Support Systems receives contracts from all branches of the military. The Defense Department listed EASI in its top 100 contractors in 2001, with $330 million in contracts; and in 2002, with $380 million in contracts. Estimates for 2003 are over $380 million.

As luck would have it, company products include "Field Deployable Environmental Control Units" (FDECUs) to deal with weapons of mass destruction. On Jan. 17, 2003, the company announced orders from the Air Force and the Marines for these units, complete with Nuclear Biological Chemical Kits, in preparation for secret arsenals of WMDs hidden, the White House insisted, by Saddam Hussein.

On Jan. 22, 2003, President Bush returned to St. Louis, which is also home base for his cousin George Herbert Walker III, now US ambassador to Hungary, to deliver one of his several speeches there. Bush delivered the famous State of the Union address linking Saddam's Iraq to WMDs and illicit nuclear material on Jan. 28.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Now we know that Bunnypanys KNEW there were no WMDÕs but the lie was more profitable for "family".

I hope I live long enough to see the Bush crime family taken down.

capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 06:54 PM

91

Most of the jet fuel was exhausted in the initial fireball. Even FEMA admitted the vast majority of the fuel burned up very quickly. In one of the towers the bulk of the fuel was ejected outside. There wasn't thousands of gallons left to go anywhere and even if there was, a kerosene fueled fire does not provide the heat necessary to cause all the joints on every floor to disintigrate at the same time to allow total collapse. No steel framed building has EVER collapsed due to fire before 9/11 or since. That theory is incorrect.
---------------

Some 185,101 tons of structural steel have been hauled away from Ground Zero. Most of the steel has been recycled as per the city's decision to swiftly send the wreckage to salvage yards in New Jersey. The city's hasty move has outraged many victims' families who believe the steel should have been examined more thoroughly. Last month, fire experts told Congress that about 80% of the steel was scrapped without being examined...
(New York Daily News, April 16, 2002)
For more than three months, structural steel from the World Trade Center has been and continues to be cut up and sold for scrap. Crucial evidence that could answer many questions about high-rise building design practices and performance under fire conditions is on the slow boat to China, perhaps never to be seen again in America until you buy your next car... Fire Engineering has good reason to believe that the "official investigation" blessed by FEMA and run by the American Society of Civil Engineers is a half-baked farce that may already have been commandeered by political forces whose primary interests, to put it mildly, lie far afield of full disclosure. Except for the marginal benefit obtained from a three-day, visual walk-through of evidence sites conducted by ASCE investigation committee members - described by one close source as a "tourist trip"- no one's checking the evidence for anything.
(Fire Engineering Magazine, January 2002)
-----------
Nothing to see here kiddies, run along now. We don't need to know why this unprecedented event occurred, and we will continue to construct buildings exactly the same way.

Posted by: Saladin at May 7, 2006 07:20 PM

92

"And it seems to me perfectly in the cards that there will be within the next generation or so a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda, brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods."
Aldous Huxley, 1959

Posted by: Saladin at May 7, 2006 07:25 PM

93

Happy documents CaptÕ³ Posts on a Sunday
Happle. . | www.davidcorn.com | 5/7/2006

I too like the articles Capt posts. What's more, I appreciate that Capt chooses a good excerpt to post rather than the whole text. There's a skill in picking the excerpt to stimulate interest in the topic and Capt is good at that. If Bush is the decider then Capt is the chooser and Happy is the seditious stealthy complainer. This is not to say, that I don't enjoy Happy's self-indulgent blithe wooly abstract egocentric posts, too. With persistence and surprisingly incessant regularity, HappyÕ³ posts stimulate a conversation with an altogether different tone . . . not unlike the bell on the gong show.

Posted by: O'Reilly at May 7, 2006 07:29 PM

94

Re #91: Saladin, you have again, in your profound ignorance, which you refuse to correct, once again posted an untruth. It is simply false to state that no steel framed building as ever collapsed due to fire, other than on 2001 Sep 11.

Now I have already, yesterday, informed you where you might go to obtain some actual facts. For this particular one, you will see ample visuals of steel framed buildings destroyed by fire between pages 585 and about 660.

Posted by: David B. Benson at May 7, 2006 08:05 PM

95

Right. Capt posts thoughtful and pertinent comments. Happy spent time going back and documenting every post. Who's the psycho?

Posted by: truthseeker at May 7, 2006 08:10 PM

96

DB, I cannot download such a huge file, it takes forever. But tell me, did any of those buildings totally implode after an hour of severely oxygen starved fires? And calling me profoundly ignorant makes you sound like a know it all. You get all your info from one site while completely ignoring almost all the other points I have brought up that don't include the building collapse. I am still looking for answers and have not ruled out anything yet. I think capt. has a great idea, you should contact Professor Jones and his associates with your theories, I am sure he would be delighted to hear from you, he is looking for input.

Posted by: Saladin at May 7, 2006 08:42 PM

97

95
...Happy spent time going back and documenting every post. Who's the psycho?

Posted by: truthseeker at May 7, 2006 08:10 PM
============================================
truthseeker...Hmmmmmm, shouldn't your handle be truthattacker? The only post on this thread that is absolutely, positively accurate is my post at #85...Any and everybody can verify it...

One minor note if you want to nitpick: I don't know for a fact he went to sleep between 1 & 10 AM!

I said I was bored and cited capt's posts, up until 5:09 PM anyway! Did I disparage him? You liberals are so uptight, it IS funny and I enjoy the heck out of yur reactions from my comments.

So, `truth' is, you're the (overly) sensitive "psycho"!

Posted by: Happy truth Squared at May 7, 2006 08:47 PM

98

wohh! That's major psycho that you chose to reply to what was a throwaway comment. I see you're also anal-retentive. And that's the truth. I and others on this site see through you. Just stop and go away.

Posted by: truthseeker at May 7, 2006 09:11 PM

99

Saladin,

Good point. Perhaps the good Dr.Benson would live up to his "good" name and cut and paste relevant text before he spits out such vitriol.

I, too, suffer from lack of technology for such research. Nothing like hearing "You're wrong, shut up and look it up for yourself!" from someone who calls himself an educator. Takes me back to those Catholic Elementary School daze.

I wonder if the Prof. can swing a ruler like that nuckle bruiser Sister Agnes Concietta? (though I think she'd lose something with the new "no Steroids" in the Convent rules they have in the majors, now!)

Thank GAWD for mind-altering substances... By Jr High, those nuns started looking like silly, little penguins...just waddlin' and squarkin'.
I was sad when they stopped wearing the habits!

-T

Posted by: Hajji at May 7, 2006 09:29 PM

100

Hajji, I have read that no steel framed high rise building has ever before or since 9/11 suffered a complete collapse due to fire damage. And certainly not after the minor fires in the buildings that day, particularly #7. I've also read that the atomic blasts in Nagasaki and Hiroshima seriously damaged steel framed buildings witin 6000 feet of the blast but many were still left standing, depending upon whether there were windows or not. Calling me ignorant is not a very good argument, I am ignorant of much of the science, which is why I am still looking 19 months later! What I do believe is that the story we are being told is highly suspect, and hauling away all the evidence before it can be closely examined by independent researchers is even more suspicious in my book!

Posted by: Saladin at May 7, 2006 09:40 PM

101

the local (wisconsin state journal) paper tells us today that after each working day their computers (using "facial recognition software") compare the digitized images of the patrons at the DMV with those pictures taken and those already on file against the drivers licence photos to verify the validity of everyones identity on that day. -they have cameras that photograph everyone in the building-a company called "Vilsage" from Conn. runs the program " Wisconsin law limits access to the database to dmv and in limited cases law enforcement which must destroy the pictures after they're used" the state's spokesman says "everything we're doing here is to prevent identity theft" other states using this listed are NC ILL Conn and seven other states. this article was writen by phil brinkman (pbrinkman@madison.com) can you hear me winston?

Posted by: onechip at May 7, 2006 09:41 PM

102

98
wohh! That's major psycho that you chose to reply to what was a throwaway comment. I see you're also anal-retentive. And that's the truth. I and others on this site see through you. Just stop and go away.

Posted by: truthseeker at May 7, 2006 09:11 PM
========================================
truthattacker, you are seriously deficient in so many ways...you are bored so you post `throwaway comment' and I can't? I don't know how long you've been around but what I do best on this blog, is expose Liberals' hypocracies, like you in this instance!

Posted by: Happy Scores the Truth at May 7, 2006 10:05 PM

103

Happy is bored on a Sun PM so he takes it upon himself to bore Cornposters with a ridiculous log of Capt's comments. I'm afraid I have to find a new Happy and call you Boring. Now I have eight dwarves in my repertoire

Posted by: Snow White at May 7, 2006 10:05 PM

104

Here's an rather interesting article(excerpted), written by a Dem, for you uptight "new breed" cannibals on Joe L, My Favorite Connectican.....

Don't let the left defeat Lieberman
Jonathan Chait
Los Angeles Times, May 7, 2006

WATCHING the left wing of the Democratic Party trying to take down Joe Lieberman has been a deeply confusing experience for me...Lieberman's allies say the lefties are a pack of crazed, ignorant ideological cannibals.

They're both basically right. So how am I supposed to deal with this?

In Connecticut,..Lieberman's friends insist that he's in trouble because he supports the Iraq war....

But lots of Democrats supported the Iraq war initially and believe now that we can and must win. Moderates such as Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton say this all the time. But you don't see anybody trying to oust them.

The difference is that Lieberman, unlike other Democratic hawks, musters little passion.....Last fall he said, "In matters of war, we undermine presidential credibility at our nation's peril." The clear implication is that it's counterproductive "traitorous, even" to call the administration on its foreign policy dishonesties. This is not how the loyal opposition in a democracy ought to behave.

Foreign policy is hardly the only smudge on Lieberman's record. He is a longtime supporter of taxing capital gains at a lower rate than other income; a stance gratifying to owners of stock....(like Happy)

Lieberman obviously relishes his role as every conservative's favorite Democrat. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. He's lavished with praise for his statesmanship, vision and bipartisanship. And, in the process, Republicans implicitly get to show what's wrong with the rest of his party. Bush and Dick Cheney applaud Lieberman regularly for believing we must win in Iraq, as if to suggest no other Democrat thinks the same.

There is a sound political rationale for picking off Lieberman.....

In the end, though, I can't quite root for Lieberman to lose his primary. What's holding me back is that the anti-Lieberman campaign has come to stand for much more than Lieberman's sins. It's a test of strength for the new breed of left-wing activists who are flexing their muscles within the party. These are exactly the sorts of fanatics who tore the party apart in the late 1960s and early 1970s. They think in simple slogans and refuse to tolerate any ideological dissent.....

If Lieberman loses, he'll play the same role as before, only this time with the power of martyrdom behind him: the virtuous anti-Democrat, too good and honest for his party. If you think Lieberman is sanctimonious now, wait until you see him in defeat

Posted by: Happy for Joe L at May 7, 2006 10:27 PM

105

#103
...I'm afraid I have to find a new Happy and call you Boring. Now I have eight dwarves in my repertoire

Posted by: Snow White at May 7, 2006 10:05 PM
==========================================
It's been done before, you are late to the Snow White parade where I was Dopey but never Bashful! Rehashing old stuff! Get w/the program here!

Posted by: Happy coaching truthattacker at May 7, 2006 10:30 PM

106

Today is a strange day.

Started out by mentioning Sister Agnes Concietta in a letter to my pal in Helsinki. (something about how she told us to pray that someone from our family wasn't the one the ambulance was going to pick up when we heard the sirens...how Christian is THAT!?)

Then I saw and responded O'Reilly's "Dick Dastardly and Muttley" post. Then we went to Chuck E. Cheese's 'cause Allie B's Zoo day got rained out. Afterward I went to Horizon Records (they've got a pretty good small performance venue, the Bohemian Cafe) to pick up the Neil Young disc...the old fashioned way...you remember?... drive down, park, go in...flip through a bunch of things...leave with at least one disc you didn't know you needed.

Anyway, so on the way out, I pick up a copy of the BEAT
that mentions Dick Dastardly and Muttley in an article on why everybody falls all over themselves at the mere mention of Jesse Jackson. (He IS after all, one of OUR Jacksons! The other one being Shoeless Joe)
____________________
Jackson barely has to move and you can bet that hordes of people will try to chase him down wearing their banana-skin heeled sneakers as they throw ball bearings and spray Wesson Oil in his direction. ItÕ³ not enlightening. But it is entertaining and even suspenseful. ItÕ³ the same predictable thrill I got on Saturday mornings trying to guess how Dick Dastardly and Muttley would manage to lose to the other Wacky Racers every single week.
___________________

and now I find myself citing Sr.Agnes Concietta again...

Just plain freeky! I wonder if tomorrow will be different?

-T

Posted by: Hajji at May 7, 2006 10:36 PM

107

Behind the Goss toss

A little-known White House advisory board convinced a reluctant President Bush to launch yet another high-profile shakeup of the nation's intelligence community and can CIA Director Porter Goss, sources said yesterday.
Bush had already gotten an earful from Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte on the shortcomings of Goss, but the final push came from the "very alarmed" President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, intelligence and Congressional sources said.

Alarms were set off at the advisory board by a widening FBI sex and cronyism investigation that's targeted Kyle (Dusty) Foggo, the No.3 official at the CIA, and also touched on Goss himself.

The 16-member bipartisan board, now headed by former Goldman Sachs executive Stephen Friedman, has the mandate to conduct periodic assessments on "the quality, quantity and adequacy of intelligence collection."

The board, which includes longtime Bush confidant and former Commerce Secretary Don Evans, joined in the growing chorus inside and outside the CIA calling for Goss' ouster, persuading Bush to act, sources said.

The result was the awkward Oval Office announcement Friday at which neither Goss nor Bush gave a specific reason for Goss' return to Florida. Goss told CNN yesterday his resignation was "just one of those mysteries."

Posted by: Jeanne at May 7, 2006 10:46 PM

108

Just One of Those Mysteries... For Snow's First Day
Jay Rosen | PressTHINK | 5/7/6

The CIA director is forced out after a year and the White House gives no reason at all for it. What will the new press secretary do when asked for an explanation that was glaringly absent on Friday? Monday is Snow's first day on the job. Let's see if reason-giving can make a comeback.

Read on (link)

Posted by: O'Reilly at May 7, 2006 11:04 PM

109

"What I do best on this blog, is expose Liberals' hypocracies (sic), like you (sic) in this instance"
Posted by: Happy at war with others

What you do best is abuse the English language. What you do second best is play the fool: Only you fail to see it.

When you're in conflict with others here, you frequently make the claim, "You're a new comer" or "You haven't been here that long." So what does that have to do with anything? You've been here for a while. So What? It's not a badge nor does it earn you credit or credibility.

Some people argue to win, others to settle a dispute and learn more about the issue in the process. I've seen no evidence that you're inclined to engage for any reason resembling the latter.

Posted by: O'Reilly at May 7, 2006 11:23 PM

110

Thanks for all of the kind words and I apologize for buggin' (even the troll). It should not be about me, at least I never intended it to be so.

capt

Posted by: capt at May 7, 2006 11:57 PM

111

Capt. You didn't make it about you, the troll did but it's always nice to get the support of other cornbloggers when someone tries to mock you, or tells you to shut up.

Posted by: O'Reilly at May 8, 2006 12:01 AM

112

capt, as you always say, why even respond to such piffle?
O'Reilly, happy is a rich stock trader, and like bush, he doesn't have to worry about the intricacies and technicalities of the English language, that's for cornnut peons like us!

Posted by: Saladin at May 8, 2006 12:07 AM

113

SPEECH OF SENATOR JOHN F. KENNEDY,
COMMODORE HOTEL, NEW YORK, N.Y.,
ACCEPTANCE OF PARTY NOMINATION, SEPTEMBER 14 1960

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label, "Liberal"? If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But, if by a "Liberal," they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people - their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties - someone who believes that we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say that I'm a "Liberal."

*****end of clip*****

I am proud to called a liberal as long as the jerks are calling themselves conservative. Call me liberal or conservative - whatever stands in opposition to evil in this world is fine by me.

"I am a Conservative to preserve all that is good in our constitution, a Radical to remove all that is bad. I seek to preserve property and to respect order, and I equally decry the appeal to the passions of the many or the prejudices of the few." ~ Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881), campaign speech at High Wycombe, England, November 27, 1832


capt

Posted by: capt at May 8, 2006 12:13 AM

114

I like reading posts from intellectually dishonest people like Hapless. Reading his crackpot twists of logic are a little on the pathetic side; but he redeems himself with his unintended humor. Witness the counting of Capt's posts. This from someone who posts more often than I do and once quipped that he only meant to post once or twice a day on this blog. Aside from the autoevisceration of his credibility, it's funny to watch him crap all over a good lede.

If you read the first part of the Lie-berman story that Hapless posted, you'll notice that it's been mangled. Here's the way it was originally written:
"WATCHING the left wing of the Democratic Party trying to take down Joe Lieberman has been a deeply confusing experience for me. The lefties say the Democratic senator from Connecticut is a self-righteous suck-up who lends President Bush undeserved credibility. Lieberman's allies say the lefties are a pack of crazed, ignorant ideological cannibals."

Read the whole thing. Chait rips Lieberman apart, but "can't quite root for Lieberman to lose the primary" (against Ned Lamont).

While you're at it, check out this laugh-out-loud hilarious piece by Howie Kurtz on Chait's hatred of Mr. Bush. There's a good picture of Mr. Corn's book in the story.

And O'Reilly's right. The creative orthography makes a dullard like Hapless look as spastic as his son Clueless. Ms. Sal sez "Happy is a rich stock trader." All the way over here in Texas, I can smell the sarcasm in that one. Hapless?

O'Reilly, did you happen to catch the pairings for the D1 Lacrosse tournament? I "can't quite root for (Virginia) to lose". LOL.

Posted by: Pandemoniac at May 8, 2006 12:20 AM

115

"When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative." ~ Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 - 1968)

Posted by: capt at May 8, 2006 12:21 AM

116

"A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves.": Bertrand de Jouvenel - (1903-1987)

=
We allow the most atrocious lies uttered by political and moral prostitutes to go unchallenged. These lies are endlessly recycled in the commercial media until they become ingrained in the public conscience as truth. Worse than burying our heads in the sand, we bury them up our collective ass. How do you like the view?: Charles Sullivan

=
"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty." -- John Adams, 1772

=
"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. : George Bernard Shaw (1944)

===

Thanks ICH Newsletter!

Posted by: capt at May 8, 2006 12:28 AM

117

Russias Arms Orders To Go Up 20 Percent

Russian arms orders will rise next year by more than 20 percent to 8.8 billion euros (11.2 billion dollars) mainly for new nuclear weapons and outfitting rapid reaction forces, a senior official said Saturday.

"Expenditure of 302.7 billion roubles (8.8 billion euros) is earmarked for the defence ministry for purchase and refurbishing of military material and arms," Vladislav Putilin, the vice president of the state industrial-military commission was quoted as saying by the ITAR-TASS news agency. "These orders will increase by more than 20 percent in almost all areas at comparable prices," another agency, Interfax, quoted him as saying.

The additional resources would be applied largely to development of nuclear weapons, rapid reaction units and special forces.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Between this and the expansion of arms in a few other countries (including nuclear) I get the feeling that the cold war only took a break. I cannot fault the other countries for no longer trusting in peace and the good intentions of America. I think the insanity of our dry-drunk dick-tater scares the hell out of everybody.

The idea that Bunnypants could push the button is unnerving. The possibility of all out nuclear war is unsettling to say the least.


capt

Posted by: capt at May 8, 2006 12:46 AM

118

Duck and cover!

From Antiwar.com - a trip down memory lane.

(Google Video might not be dial-up friendly)


capt

Posted by: capt at May 8, 2006 01:19 AM

119

"Hitler Hayden"

May 7, 2006 -- WMR reported extensively on Michael Hayden's management, scandal, and morale problems at the National Security Agency (NSA). The Bush administration, always anxious to reward misconduct and mismanagement, now wants Hayden to bring his baggage to a decimated Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Based on Hayden's past at the NSA, Langley should stand by for psychiatric abuse, more Gestapo-like tactics from imported security personnel from Fort Meade, contractor fraud, FBI "sting" set ups like that which befell NSA Iraqi shop SIGINT analyst Ken Ford, Jr. -- the author of a SIGINT report that stated reports of Iraqi WMDs were not backed up by intercepts of Iraqi communications -- and a general disregard for the law. There will also be harassment by Hayden of retired and former CIA officers who continue to speak out. This was a hallmark of Hayden's tenure at NSA where he subjected former NSA officers and journalists to whom they spoke to special surveillance from an intelligence database code-named FIRSTFRUITS.

Read WMR's past reports on NSA malfeasance and corruption under Hayden:


Hayden's heroes

SPY AGENCY DISRUPTION REACHES FORT MEADE

NSA and selling the nation

NSA INTERCEPTS FOR BOLTON MASKED As "training exercises"

SPY AGENCY DISRUPTION at nsa

*****end of clip*****

Another real winner. I hope they reconsider.


capt

Posted by: capt at May 8, 2006 01:31 AM

120

Pande, Thanks for the tip. I hadn't seen it yet. Sweet Virginia#1 draws Notre Dame #16. It's hard to root against our lady the virgin.

I'm happy Cornell drew UMass. I plan to go and I'll be pleased no matter who wins.I may see the Syracuse game too.

How are the Spurs doing? In years past, I never missed a single televised playoff game. This year, I haven't watched one. Playoff basketball is usually the most competitive and compelling basketball of the year.

Posted by: O'Reilly at May 8, 2006 02:06 AM

121

Seagate goes to 750GB with new drive

The drive makes use of perpendicular recording technology, which stands data bits vertically on the disc media, rather than horizontally as hard disks have traditionally worked. That enables Seagate to achieve higher throughput without increasing the driveÕs rotational speed Ñ 7200RPM Ñ by making more data pass under the drive head in the same amount of time.

Posted by: Alan at May 8, 2006 02:35 AM

122

Conyers responds

That was back when Congress did something called "oversight." You know, in our tri-partite system of government, when Congress actually acted like a co-equal branch. The Republican Congress decided to be a rubber stamp for President Bush instead.

(snip)

But we also need to serve their interests. Congressional oversight is part of that. It is a check and balance, designed to protect the American people from too much power being concentrated in too few hands.

If I become a Chairman again, I intend to push for oversight of this Administration. Our Constitutional system of government requires no less.


Posted by: Alan at May 8, 2006 02:58 AM

123

Ignore the Bushevik cultists, my friends, especially the ones who can't be bothered to spell correctly. Now I have to get to dusting my apartment. (My apartment usually looks like a twister hit it, and then returned to be sure it did the job right. As Rita Rudner said, men on their own don't live like people; they live like bears with furniture.)--KC

Posted by: Kid Charlemagne at May 8, 2006 04:40 AM

124

Rumsfeld's assertions come back to haunt him


Defense Secretary furiously backpedaling on WMD in Iraq and connections between Saddam and al-Qaida


WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld tried to rewrite history last week when he denied making prewar claims that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction.

Rumsfeld's latest effort at backtracking on his prewar rhetoric came last Thursday at a contentious public forum in Atlanta when he faced a handful of hecklers and an anti-war questioner in the audience, who charged that he had lied about Saddam having weapons of mass destruction, which was President Bush's top rationale for war.

The Pentagon chief denied he had lied and said he had relied on official intelligence reports about Saddam's weapons.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

"No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people and the stability of the world than the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq."
Donald Rumsfeld, testimony to Congress, Sept. 19, 2002

"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat."
Donald Rumsfeld, ABC interview, March 30, 2003

capt

Posted by: capt at May 8, 2006 08:24 AM

125

Reynolds: "Come Out of the White House with Your Hands Up!"

Ex-Bush Official Busts 9/11 Perps at U.W. Historical Society


An enthusiastic standing-room-only crowd packed the Wisconsin Historical Society auditorium Saturday to hear ex-Bush Administration insider Morgan Reynolds prosecute top administration and military officials for the 9/11 inside job.

Reynolds indicted Richard Cheney, George W. Bush, former Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Meyers, confessed WTC demolisher and insurance-fraudster Larry Silverstein, and others for mass murder, conspiracy, and other charges including high treason. The enthusiastic response from the overflow crowd was a de facto vote for conviction on all counts.

The former Director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis, showed that the defendants conspired to create a false cover story of suicide hijackings in order to "blow the World Trade Center to kingdom come" with explosivesѡ shock-and-awe psy-op designed to coerce the American people into supporting a pre-planned "long war" in the Middle East, massive increases in military spending, and the rollback of Constitutional civil liberties.

Reynolds stated that everyone in the worldwide intelligence community knew that 9/11 was an inside job as soon as it happened, with the obvious stand-down of US air defenses, controlled demolition of the World Trade Center, and non-protection of the President in Florida being the biggest tip-offs.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

The refuseniks hate it when someone inside and well connected speaks out. They have to plug their ears or surrender to the simple facts that people do speak out, people that are in the know.

Far better than a death-bed confession. This guy is alive and well and willing to answer a few of the questions.

capt

Posted by: capt at May 8, 2006 09:04 AM

126

Here is a prediction:

Democrats will run on high gas/fuel prices (ala energy-energy-energy) and will be hoodwinked. Bush claims he cannot do anything to bring down the price of gas. Who does not believe that Big Oil would drop the price in October or September if they need to?

IF the Democrats run on anything short of a complete frontal attack on the war an