when last we saw our intrepid bad guys they were
far above the clouds. we rejoin them there for
part 2 of "Aluminum Planes & Steel Hearts"
----------
cont. from #33 prior thread -

stewardess! i mean, hostage! more coffee! so my friend, have you familiarized yourself with this infernal machine yet? it is time to turn off the transponder now.

uh, which one is the transponder again?

this one is the transponder. no wait! THIS one is....i think. blast it! just flip some switches at random! it won't matter.
look down my friend, do you see those alternating triangles of light and dark green?

oh i see them! what do they mean?

my friend, those are the boundaries of neighboring air force space - if we follow along the edges between them they will never know we are there!

oh just like the 4 foot stone wall between my hovel and my cousin's hovel back home?

exactly my long-legged friend! rejoice for we are almost there!

Harry Reid

Dear Cornposters:

Here are some personal facts that you may or may not know. Posting is a stressor. A person with heart problems must avoid stress. Plus, I have only one artery that is functioning to my heart. That fact is a result of tests at the university hospital.

Here is my question. Why should I keep posting in an effort to help in, maybe, a small way for my country to be more humane and loving toward all of God's children?

Harry Reid said that English as a national language would be racist. That is an outrageous statement, a totally outrageous statement. If the Democrats believe that they are going to win some elections to take back the House those kind of comments, they are nuts. Yes, they are nuttier than Bushitler.

Why should I put stress on myself with posts when the Democrats are undermining our efforts to defeat the Nazis.

Are the Democrats really that stupid?

Again, I must personally add a comment. I do not know at this moment whether or not I can vote for Democrats. I know that I cannot vote for the Nazis. That must leave me in limbo for November 7, 2006.

Sincerely,

Gerald

WELCOME TO MEXICO!

a compelling and heartwarming tale elaborating on the hoops that american immigrants to mexico must jump through.

The fall of the Roman Empire occurred after Emperor Valens opened Rome's borders in 376 A.D. By 476 A.D., Rome vanished after it allowed the Goth nation to cross the Danube River. If the United States won't protect its borders, its language or its culture, and will not enforce its laws--it will repeat Rome's fall. Mexico's invasion of the United States exceeds the scale of the Goth migration into Rome or any other migration in history.

excerpt from: NERVOUS AS A WHORE IN CHURCH

I agree. We must keep the Goths and their very depressing music out of the United States.

This column is dedicated to those who died in the 1945 Empire State Building plane crash tragedy. It is also dedicated to one of the bravest, pluckiest news photographers ever to flash a bulb: Ernie Sisto. The photograph at the top of the article was taken from the 90th floor, looking down on the crash. Not content to get just any old picture, Sisto (pictured at left) opted for one that would put things in proper perspective. To do this, he had one reporter hold each of his feet and dangle him out the window so he could get past the ledge, affording him that straight-down shot. Whether he had balls the size of Texas or he was simply insane we don't know, but Ernie, here's to you for documenting history at all costs. (I vote for "crazy.")

Tuning In Time

How many of these guys are missing a leg??

Taliban Commander Is Believed to Be in Afghan Custody

A stocky man with a thick black beard and the heavy black turban that is the signature dress of Taliban fighters, Mullah Dadullah is known to have an artificial leg. He surrendered his forces in northern Afghanistan in 2001 after the American invasion, but escaped capture himself and has been at large since, sometimes giving interviews to journalists, vowing to fight until foreign troops leave Afghanistan.

"We arrested dozens of Taliban in an operation that started Wednesday, and among them is a man who is missing a leg, is seriously wounded and is unconscious," Maj. Gen. Rahmatullah Raufi, corps commander of the Afghan National Army in Kandahar, said in a telephone interview. "There is a suspicion that it may be Mullah Dadullah, but it is not proven yet. He is in the hospital in the American base of Kandahar and was captured by the coalition."

Freedom is a tricky thing.

Are we free to build walls and be left alone? Are we free to live with like-minded people in communities like the Pennslavania Dutch, Mormans, or fundamentalists in Florida? Are we free to speak in our native languages whether it's German or Yiddish, Russian or Spanish? Can there be good reasons nontheless to require immigrants who want to become citizens to learn functional English? Does that require we declare an official language?

We are a nation of immigrants.

It makes sense to honor the promise this county made to the huddled masses. What makes immigration successful? What makes it unsuccessful? As a country, we've been this way before but we act as though we have no history to rely on to guide us.

When Frost was asked by a professor of religious studies about the role of religion in his life and poetry (a smart or dumb question?), Frost answered by reciting a nursery rhyme.

Mary had a little lamb
His name was Jesus Christ.
God, the father, was the ram,
But Joseph took it nice.

[LINK]

I worry a bit about the effect on wages from massive immigration, but I'm fairly optimistic otherwise about the idea of Mexican immigrants becoming citizens. Why?

The modern American right-wing movement (I refuse to dignify these five-and-dime fascists with the name "conservative") is irremediably dependent on white supremacists (of one or another degree of virulence) for its political muscle. Since Mexicans tend to be mestizos or even pure Native Americans, no more than a token few would be welcome into the ranks of the Right.
(kind of like the "Fo'Rent 2%" of African-Americans) Hence, they would have no choice but to gravitate to the Left, which would give the Left serious electoral muscle, maybe enough to establish, at long last, REAL, SOCIAL DEMOCRACY, like most other Western countries have, here in the good old USA. Among other things, that would mean stronger unions, higher wages, and firmer safety-net programs,. which would take care of my one real objection. (the effect on wages) I think more naturalized citizens from Mexico means more voters who share my views, so I find it hard to object to that.

Besides, we stole much of the Southwest from Mexico. (we "bought" it, but at gunpoint)
I can't bring myself to get upset about Mexicans entering the country, since part of it really belongs to them, anyway.

I recognize that most of our immigration-fearers on THIS blog are not racist, but I don't think they've considered the possible advantages for our brand of politics.

Actually, even if we could somehow close the borders (as if the GOP's paymasters who live high off cheap labor would allow it), natural increase will make the USA a nonwhite-majority nation some time in this century. Once that happens, the Right is burnt toast.

Venceremos, Kid Charlemagne

Frost's poetry says that good fences are the mutual interest between two good neighbors.If we could just convince President Fox that his side of the fence should keep the immigrants in and our side will keep them out.Right now it is completely one sided.

oy, this is like listening to ed schultz. what's next? commentary on the duke case?

"Frost's poetry says that good fences are the mutual interest between two good neighbors."

No it doesn't - that was the whole point of David Corn's post.

Frost's poem clearly shows that the narrator finds the line "Good fences make good neighbours" to be an inadequate response to his questions.

"If we could just convince President Fox that his side of the fence should keep the immigrants in and our side will keep them out..."

Or we could convince people like yourself that immigration is not something to be afraid of - it is an inevitable and largely self-regulating process which for the most part, helps everyone involved - both migrants and the receiving country, racists excluded.

Interesting to see the conservative movement which has for so long berated government meddling in the lives of individuals and business suddenly demand an authoritarian state to control the lives of Mexican immigrants whose principal desire is to make a decent living for their families in a country that wants their labour. What happened to the libertarians?

And what of the likes of Pat Buchanan and Bill O'Reilly - how do they imagine that the Irish came to America? Irish emigration has created a colossal international diaspora of which both they and myself are a tiny part. We betray our own roots by bashing Mexicans who, like our own ancestors, needed a break in a new country.

Immigration - get over it and let other people get on with their lives in peace.

Why can Israel build an aparteid wall to keep out the natives, AKA the Palestinians, but if the US even talks about it, it's the worst racist idea in the world? I think they got the idea of a wall from Israel, one of the most racist states on the planet. Building walls to keep people out is a stupid idea and a waste of money, especially considering the following fact:
--------------
From; Building a North American community, the selling of America
By Deanna Spingola

While our sons, daughters, sisters, brothers, mothers and fathers having been spilling their blood in the sands of Iraq under the guise of restoring the country to the Iraqi citizens, our president is in the process of giving our country to the elite One World Order insiders. While our president is requiring protected borders in Iraq, he is obliterating, not only our southern, but our northern borders.

The leaders of three countries met at Baylor University in Waco, Texas on 23 March 2005. This meeting included George W. Bush, Mexican President Vicente Fox and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin. There were no security cameras or media coverage on this event, so-called conservative or liberal. These three "wanna be" dictators established the "Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America."

On 17 May 2005 the Council on Foreign Relations created an Independent Task Force to study the three country pact. This 31 member task force was chaired by: John F. Manley, Pedro Aspe, and William F. Weld and vice chaired by: Robert A. Pastor, Thomas P. d'Aquino, Andr?s Rozental. These efforts were sponsored by the Council on Foreign Relations in association with the Canadian Council of Chief Executives and the Consejo Mexicano de Asuntos Internacionales.

For this coming political transition for America, Canada and Mexico, the CFR Task Force suggests the following specific measures:

Make North America safer: (from their web site)

Establish a common security perimeter by 2010.

Develop a North American Border Pass with biometric identifiers.

Develop a unified border action plan and expand border customs facilities.
------------
There's lot's more on the CFR website, they liberally sprinkle 9/11 around as an excuse for yet another assault on the US. I doubt if they are going to be building any walls on the US/Mexico border, this is just another distraction from the same agenda they've had all along, which is to create one massive poverty slave class that can be more easily controlled than a well educated, economically successful middle class. This transformation is happening right before our eyes. It won't be long now, if they get their way we will all be one big happy family!

In two generations the children will speak english the way other groups of immigrants became assimilated here, look at the history. Worrying about the latest fad of crossing the border for jobs is not going to get the job done. Arrest the employers and the immigrants won't have a reason to stand on the corner. However there won't be any day labor for those little jobs that americans won't do. Like digging up the tree that has to be moved, or moving boxes for a stipend. Need them? Not really, but they are convenient to most of the americans that hire them. Just try to hire an american to do some carpentry, block, or yard work. No takers and the ones that do show up are either drunk or on drugs. Been there done that. Nope they are here and we better get used to that. Pass the tacos.

Alex, I understand what you're saying, and in an ideal world unlimited immigration would not pose any problems. I know that immigration is what made this country, but it can hardly be said that it was good for everyone, I suspect the Native Americans would disagree with you on that point because it was a freakin disaster for them. Immigrants were required to submit to a basic health exam, they were not allowed to simply pour across the border and assimilate. Today many illegal immigrants bring with them very serious diseases that cannot be kept out of the general population because they are not subject to any kind of exam. The cost of caring for very sick immigrants is overwhelming the resources of many communities. What is the solution? I don't know. No decent person wants to send sick people back to the poverty they just escaped, but there are millions of Americans who cannot afford even basic health care that are forced to do without while the govt. provides care for people who have not contributed anything to the cost. One thing I am sure of, if bushco is promoting it, you can count on it being horrible for everyone, including the immigrants.

How Does President Bush Compare with Other Wartime Presidents With Respect to Free Speech Issues?

Bush and Cheney Are On Track To Outdo Their Rights-Infringing Predecessors

It's true that Bush and Cheney did not call for the arrest of Howard Dean in 2004, as Woodrow Wilson did with Eugene Debs during World War One - an analogy Stone offers to suggest some progress is being made. But as more and more comes out about what they have done, it is clear that they plan to outdo all their predecessors when it comes to dramatic infringements of civil liberties in the name of wartime necessity. Stone may have been premature in believing progress has been made. The facts suggest otherwise.

Rather than suspend habeas corpus, Bush and Cheney declare people "enemy combatants" and keep them out of the jurisdiction of federal courts. No one knows how many Arab Americans (or Middle Easterners) have been rounded up, but rather than create internment camps, they are deporting them, sending them to secret prisons, or turning them over to countries where civil liberties do not exist, in a process delicately known as "diplomatic rendition" but better described as "torture by proxy." .

More generally, Bush and Cheney have surely topped all their predecessors in their unbridled support for and use of torture. They have outdone all their predecessors, too, in their high-tech, relentless fear-mongering. In their claim of strengthening the presidency, they have shown they are cowards hiding behind the great power of the offices they hold, the prerogatives of which they are determined to abuse.

Professor Stone quotes Justice Louis Brandeis, who wrote "Those who won our independence … knew that … fear breeds repression and that courage is the secret of liberty." There is no such courage in the Bush and Cheney presidency.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

A good piece that has some good historical references.

capt

Experts say report of badges for Jews in Iran is untrue

Chris Wattie, National Post
Published: Friday, May 19, 2006

Several experts are casting doubt on reports that Iran had passed a law requiring the country's Jews and other religious minorities to wear coloured badges identifying them as non-Muslims.
The Iranian embassy in Otttawa also denied the Iranian government had passed such a law.

A news story and column by Iranian-born analyst Amir Taheri in yesterday's National Post reported that the Iranian parliament had passed a sweeping new law this week outlining proper dress for Iran's majority Muslims, including an order for Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians to wear special strips of cloth.

According to the reports, Jews were to wear yellow cloth strips, called zonnar, while Christians were to wear red and Zoroastrians blue.

The Simon Wiesenthal Centre and Iranian expatriates living in Canada had confirmed that the order had been passed, although it still had to be approved by Iran's Supreme Guide Ali Khamenehi before being put into effect.

Hormoz Ghahremani, a spokesman for the Iranian Embassy in Ottawa, said in an e-mail to the Post yesterday that, we wish to categorically reject the news item.

These kinds of slanderous accusations are part of a smear campaign against Iran by vested interests, which needs to be denounced at every step.
Sam Kermanian, of the U.S.-based Iranian-American Jewish Federation, said in an interview from Los Angeles that he had contacted members of the Jewish community in Iran, including the lone Jewish member of the Iranian parliament, and they denied any such measure was in place.
------------
Three guesses who the "vested interests" behind this are, Simon Wiesenthal is a clue, and the first two don't count. KOS has an interesting story about the roots of this attempt to demonize Iran as much as possible, the usual suspects.

Why is the Media Downplaying Our Voting Scandal?

"Here, from that poll, are the stations listed as first choice by respondents and the percentage of respondents who thought the election was stolen: CNN 70%; MSNBC 65%; CBS 64%; ABC 56%; Other 56%; NBC 49%; FOX 0.5%.

"With 99% of Fox viewers believing that the election was "legitimate," only the constant propaganda of Rupert Murdoch’s disinformation campaign stands in the way of a majority of Americans coming to grips with the reality of two consecutive stolen elections."

Bi-partisan Commissions have studied this problem. One led by ex-president Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker noted, "Software can be modified maliciously before being installed into individual voting machines. There is no reason to trust insiders in the election industry any more than in other industries."

A recent Wall Street Journal story revealed, "Some former backers of the technology seek return to paper ballots, citing glitches, fraud fears."

Aviel Rubin, a computer science professor at Johns Hopkins University, did an analysis of the security flaws in the source code for Diebold touch-screen machine. After studying the latest problems, The Times reported Rubin said: "I almost had a heart attack. The implications of this are pretty astounding."

Worse still, the Congress is burying reform measures with scant media attention. Chellie Pingree, president of Common Cause writes: "What is Congress doing? Nothing. Right now HR 550, The Voter Confidence and Increased Accessibility Act the bill, which would take care of these problems, is languishing in committee. The bill has 186 cosponsors, more support than most bills voted on in the House."

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Get your crash helmets and safety belts on, November is going to be another stolen election. The Neocrazies will not cede power to anyone under any circumstance. The only "fair" election is one they win at any and all cost.

They are setting up the excuse why they will win already.

capt

It is an overstatement to suggest -- even obliquely -- that the spread of infectious diseases in the United States are caused by illegal immigrants.

Diseases that proliferate in the developing world are entering the United States through returning U.S. residents, visitors to the U.S., and immigrants, both legal and illegal.

is

is that what I said micki? Go back and read it again.

I should also mention, that research indicates that the spread of infectious diseases results as much from changes in human behavior--including lifestyles, land use patterns, increased trade, travel, and inappropriate use of antibiotic drugs--as from mutations in pathogens. ...hard to lay the bulk of the blame mainly on illegal immigration.

Read for comprehension -- obliquely.

Read what I said!

The Centers For Disease Control reports that illegal immigrants account for over 65 percent of communicable diseases (TB, hepatitis, leprosy, AIDS, etc.) in the U.S. Of course, immigration officials are supposed to screen out applicants for legal immigration who are carrying diseases. But illegals slip over the border unchecked.

There are seven thousand registered cases of leprosy in the US, for example.

Each year some 300 new cases of leprosy are identified in the United States. The vast majority of these patients are immigrants who acquired the disease in their home countries. [MSN Encarta]

Tuberculosis is generally regarded as the most common infectious disease found in immigrants. More than half (53.4 percent) of all TB cases reported in 2003 involved foreign-born persons.
---------
I suppose the CDC could be considered another racist organization, right? How about, instead of nitpicking, the WHO get some help to these people? Infectious diseases are running rampant in Mexico and don't appear to be of concern to anyone who could do something about it. There is talk of quarantine if the bird flu should enter this country, why is this any less important? If there are this many sick Mexicans in the US, just imagine how many there are in Mexico. Why isn't this problem being addressed?

As Karl Rove throws more and more logs on the hate fire, the democrats are preparing for the next hate machine assualt by doing what they always do...

Quivering like jello.

"Aluminum Planes & Steel Hearts"
the continuing saga of intrepid bad guys.
Chapter 3 - the realization
----------

oh mustapha, i've realized that i have committed a most grievous error!

what is wrong my friend? and keep your eyes on those clouds up ahead!

oh! in addition to leaving the copy of "How To Fly A 757" in the suitcase, i fear that i have forgotten my koran on the counter-top at the girly bar we visited last night!

have no fear achmed my friend, and replace your hands on that wheel! i have brought my copy of the koran, and i have it...right....
(checks pockets furiously) ....oh achmed, i do believe that i have left MY copy of the koran in the taxi cab that we shared on the way to the airport.

I didn't even say that "obliquely." I said that many illegal immigrants come here with serious diseases, that is a verifiable fact. My question is, why is this problem not being dealt with in MEXICO? Don't organizations like WHO care about the people, no doubt many of them are children who are suffering, in Mexico?

Neocon Scaife and the Nose Cone Blob Ruse

Kurt Nimmo | May 20 2006

As noted by the blogger Xymphora, upon reading a post on the Smirking Chimp site, Judicial Watch, the organization responsible for filing a FOIA request and thus bringing us earlier this week the eminently ignorable Pentagon crash video, is hooked up with Richard Mellon Scaife, billionaire bankroller of fascist neocon outfits such the American Enterprise Institute, the Hoover Institution, and the Marxist turned neocon David Horowitz's various smear operations.

Judicial Watch was created to harass and snap at the heels of Bill Clinton, a favorite pastime for the likes of Scaife and the lunatic Republican fringe now in control of Congress. Judicial Watch, which recently released video supposedly showing a plane hitting the Pentagon, is essentially a tool of Richard Mellon Scaife, who has given 8.5 million dollars, at least, to support this organization. Though officially a watchdog group, Judicial Watch got its start by filing over 50 nuisance lawsuits against the Clintons, the post on Smirking Chimp explains.

Regardless of the fact the latest video so rapturously embraced by the corporate media as evidence to put the "conspiracy theorists" out to pasture, is a less than worthless distraction, the connection between Judicial Watch and Scaife, who is a documented CIA asset, puts the whole affair in context.

In 2002, Judicial Watch received $1.1 million from The Carthage Foundation and a further $400,000 from The Sarah Scaife Foundation. The year before the Scaife Foundation had given $1.35 million and Carthage $500,000, reports SourceWatch. In all, between 1997 and 2002, Judicial Watch received $7,069,500 (unadjusted for inflation) in 19 grants from a handful of foundations. The bulk of this funding came from just three foundations, the Sarah Scaife Foundation, The Carthage Foundation and the John M. Olin Foundation, Inc.

Moreover, Judicial Watch, according to David Corn on his Klayman Watch blog (Larry Klayman is a trade lawyer heading up Judicial Watch), is connected to Richard Viguerie, the direct-mail titan of the neocon movement. In short, Judicial Watch is nothing less than a shill for neocons, who have a vested interest, lest the truth emerge and they be arrested and prosecuted for treason and murder in promoting the nine eleven fairy tale and discrediting researchers interested in getting at the truth.
-------------
How very interesting. Did David mention that on the blog? I may have missed it. I knew something fishy was going on.

Incredibly well-informed posts today, from all sides. Civility and reason.

Thinking caps on. Well done, you.

Don't Click on This Ad

The Nation website has been running an ad recently urging readers to "say no to government regulation of the internet." Please don't click on it. It's a deceptive campaign created by high-priced consultants and paid for by the cable and phone industries to build opposition to the net neutrality bill. Companies like AT&T, Verizon, BellSouth and their trade associations are spending millions every week to mislead and misinform the American public through tricky ad campaigns such as these.

As the invaluable group Free Press reports, their latest attempt to hoodwink Internet users is a cutesy cartoon at www.dontregulate.org -- a clever piece of industry propaganda that is riddled with half-truths and conveys a fake populist message that sounds plausible, while undermining the work of genuine public and consumer advocates.

Why, you may ask, is The Nation running the ad? The short answer is that we take ads because we're a business that runs, in part, on advertising revenue, not because we agree with the advertiser. It's the same answer we gave to outraged readers when we took full-page magazine ads from Fox News. (Click here to read The Nation's advertising policy.) My goal here isn't to defend the policy--though I do find it legitimate and unobjectionable--but rather to try to highlight this particular ad's devious and misleading opposition to "net neutrality"--something that The Nation magazine fully supports. (Network neutrality is simply the principle that Internet users should be able to access any web content they choose, without restrictions or limitations imposed by their Internet service provider.)

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

"we take ads because we're a business that runs, in part, on advertising revenue"

The business that runs, "in the other part", on subscription revenue will hear the complaints more clearly when people start canceling their subscriptions. I cannot imagine how "The Nation" can avoid that reality, it is as much a business decision as running deceptive ads.

The fact that "The Nation" would defend the same by the piece above is nothing short of an insult.

I wonder in the history of "The Nation" how many times it ran a ad or sold ad space then ran a piece instructing subscribers "Don't Click on This Ad" or before the internet - "Don't read this sponsor/ad" - I cannot imagine that is much incentive for the people and businesses that purchase ad space.

The fact that revenue can be generated by deception - revenue FOR "The Nation" makes the whole thing more dastardly not less and certainly not a justification for raising revenue for the jerks making the deceptive ads.

As long as it makes money no line can be drawn? BU__SH__!

capt

Saladin, just some brief replies to the points you rasied:

"Alex, I understand what you're saying, and in an ideal world unlimited immigration would not pose any problems."

Unlimited immigration is not without problems any more than, say, the sale of alcohol is.

But the problems of criminalising immigration are greater - as with historical efforts to criminalise alcohol sales in the US.

The rational and humane approach is to try and manage the consequences of freedom.

"I know that immigration is what made this country, but it can hardly be said that it was good for everyone, I suspect the Native Americans would disagree with you on that point because it was a freakin disaster for them."

Well the difference here is between immigration and armed conquest of land and resources. But only the paranoid right are comparing Hispanic immigration to the conquest of America by Europe.

Overall immigration has substantial benefits, though migrant workers do tend to get treated relatively badly, and the economic benefits of immigration are not shared equally among the employing class and the working class (but then, nothing is, is it?).

But immigrants tend to make a bit more money even on modest wages than they would back home and send the cash to their families - the entire economy of poor countries like El Salvador and many communities in places like China are kept afloat by this money.

Meanwhile, the host country receives an influx of productive labour and the taxes paid by migrants well exceeds money taken from welfare.

Problems are sometimes caused when people with much-needed skills leave poor countries for rich ones, such as doctors. But this problem is best addressed by improving their opportunities in their own country without restricting freedom of movement. Many migrant workers also develop skills and receive training in rich countries which they then take back home with them after a few years.

"Today many illegal immigrants bring with them very serious diseases that cannot be kept out of the general population because they are not subject to any kind of exam."

There is some truth to this, but the problem is not helped by turning immigrants into criminals, thus forcing them underground and away from healthcare. If an immigrant trying to make a living must live in constant fear of the authorities and with no prospect of health insurance, how can they be encouraged to seek medical help if they suspect they have a serious illness?

A black market in immigrant labour is a potential source of disease - but open channels of immigration can be monitored by public health authorities.

Th rapid spread of disease is a consequence of the speed of modern travel as the brief SARS epidemic showed - but this had nothing to do with immigration. Only by restricting all travel could the threat be effectively curtailed, but that would be a pretty terrible idea.

"No decent person wants to send sick people back to the poverty they just escaped, but there are millions of Americans who cannot afford even basic health care that are forced to do without while the govt. provides care for people who have not contributed anything to the cost."

That last sentence is based on the idea that immigrants do not contribute anything to the US economy, when in reality their contribution is invaluable.

Also the choice between healthcare for US citizens and immigrants is a false one - the richest country and largest economy can afford both and then some. Might to have skimp a bit on other things though like, say, tax cuts for the uber-rich, National Missile Defense and the Iraq War. Priorities, priorities...

"One thing I am sure of, if bushco is promoting it, you can count on it being horrible for everyone, including the immigrants."

Well Bush's sudden rediscovery of the reality-based community on at least one issue is obviously not born of principle. The White House is bowing to business-orientated Republicans who recognise their dependence on Hispanic labour over Republicans who fear the dilution of the White Race.

Nor is his policy particularly generous to immigrants, but it represents a welcome acknowledgment of reality - perhaps a first for an administration which famously prefers to contemplate the world of its own imagination to the one we all have to live in.

But Bush's policy also represents a partial capitulation of the massive Hispanic migrants' rights movement that has exploded across the South-West - it's a partial victory for ordinary people against prejudice and power.

Also it offers the left lots of fun as we watch the Reublican party base turn on its old hero whom they have worshipped so intensely for so long.

I don't normally like to suggest advice to the Democratic Party, but here's an idea - Democrats should be loud and vocal in their support for the liberal parts of Bush's immigration policy, praise the president, and then sit back and watch the Republican Party eat itself alive.

OK, so those replies weren't so brief...

The rational and humane approach is to try and manage the consequences of freedom.

ah, but freedom is very expensive - slavery is relatively cheap.

I actually voted, uh, for the uh, 87 billion uhm, before I voted uh, against it!

HELPING GEORGE a cartoon by Lartie Shaw

from #32: "...Republicans who fear dilution of the White Race."

Or, as Stephanie Miller calls them, "the Deliverance wing of the Republican Party".

You will now have "Dueling Banjos" running through your heads the rest of the day.

If, like me, you can't pick Steph up on any of your local stations (she's on 8-11 CDT) you can go to wavz.com and listen online. The comedy-bit portions of her show are available at stephaniemiller.com/show/ (QuickTime)

I almost forgot, fellow babies...BOOGER!

Home from the NaCl mines until Monday evening, Kid Charlemagne

QUICKLY DIVIDE AND CONQUER.
just say Democracts / Republicans
and all rationality in USA stops.

It really is more "us versus them" where "us" are the people and "them" are the ruling elite.

Some people will never see past the left-right paradigm.

Many on both sides would sooner die than think.

"Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)

capt

"Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)

That's an excellent quote from Russell, Capt.

WE ALL HAVE TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT TERRORISM, BUT YOU WILL NEVER END TERRORISM BY TERRORIZING OTHERS. MARTIN LUTHER KING III

It is worth pointing out, that if you watch the CNN footage from the morning of 9/11, there was a great deal of confusion about what happened at the Pentagon. The story that an airplane hit the building wasn't reported for more than half an hour after when the Pentagon was officially to have been attacked. Interestingly, the first reports from the Pentagon were just of fire then there was a report of a helicopter crash.
----------------
probably because after blob77 hit the pentagon, the section where blob77 hit remained standing for a good long while before collapsing into a loose heap. there was in fact a green firetruck that was just down the street from the pentagon on an unrelated incident and it arrived within minutes and put the fire out. somehow the fire ignited again and vehicles that were one color in the first photos had magically changed colors in subsequent photos.
----------------
my advice to you all:
never underestimate the power of yosemitesam.

I am convinced that the influx of illegal immigrants is not allowed for any benevolent purpose. Part of the attraction of hiring undocumented workers as opposed to US citizens is that employers are spared the costs of workman's comp, SS contributions and various other taxes that are required for every citizen hired. If the employers are not paying I find it highly unlikely that the workers are paying. There are so many conflicting studies over whether taxes paid more than cover costs or are in the red.
For example, one study shows that the work force of LA County is 4.5 Million people and there are an estimated 972,500 people working for cash, roughly 21%, predominantly undocumented workers. Another claims the number is closer to 40%. The studies tend to reflect the politics of the writers, and the formulas they use vary a lot. I don't trust bush, I think this whole debate is one giant photo-op designed to save his ass, not help anyone.

Washington politicians are not real Americans

Here are two headlines that demonstrate why I do not believe bushco spends one second feeling concern for illegal Mexican immigrants.

Iraq War Vets Documentary Highlights Growing Trend Of Homeless Iraq War Vets
On any given night the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) helps 200 to 250 of them, and more go uncounted. They are among nearly 200,000 homeless veterans in America, largely from the Vietnam War.
Advocates say the number of homeless veterans is certain to grow, just as it did in the years following the Vietnam and Gulf wars, as a consequence of the stresses of war and inadequate job training.

AND

Thousands Of Katrina Victims In FEMA Trailers Receive Eviction Notices
"We're two weeks before the resumption of a new hurricane season," said Reilly Morse, a Center for Justice attorney who has been helping people appeal their evictions. "Now FEMA is making a catastrophe worse, if that's possible. It's taking people and putting them on the street, essentially."
------------
They couldn't care less about US, much less sick, poverty stricken immigrants.

US Code, Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118, 2441
Posted May 20, 2006 09:00 AM PST

Those who order the commission of war crimes, as defined by the Geneva and Hague Conventions in regards to conduct of war, 'shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the penalty of death'.

This may explain why the US Government is trying to block all torture lawsuits, because under US law, those who authorized the torture, which has resulted in deaths, are looking at the death penalty themselves.
-------------
Let the trials begin.

"I am convinced that the influx of illegal immigrants is not allowed for any benevolent purpose."

No, of course not, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing in itself.

Illegal immigration is "allowed" for two reasons - first, that much of US industry, services and agriculture depends on it and second, the sheer practical impossibility of preventing it.

"I don't trust bush, I think this whole debate is one giant photo-op designed to save his ass, not help anyone."

Bush is a vindictive, egotistical, arrogant, selfish, corrupt, reflexive liar who gets a kick out of putting people to death and is probably mentally unstable. Not accusations I make lightly.

And his entire political mission is dedicated to covering his butt. Of course he doesn't care the rights or lives of Hispanic workers - politicians are hardly ever motivated by things pure and noble and certainly not this one.

Most of the political and military strategists of the Union Army cared little about Negroes in the Confederate States. The British Empire outlawed the slave trade after centuries of raking off its proceeds - was England's Georgian ruling class motivated by human rights concerns? Obviously not.

But it is the motives of Bush's critics on the right that are the more worrying in this case, namely straightforward malice and bigotry.

"Part of the attraction of hiring undocumented workers as opposed to US citizens is that employers are spared the costs of workman's comp, SS contributions and various other taxes that are required for every citizen hired."

Yes, but these are workers' rights issues, not just immigration matters.

The left has a classic strategy for addressing this - decriminalising migrant workers and winning union rights for them so they can organise themselves and fight for better conditions. Surely to be preferred to joining hands with the racist right and criminalising immigrants.

For the left to make headway in America - and in other countries where the right exploits anti-immgration sentiment like Western Europe and Australia - it's not just a matter of opposing Bush, but fighting back against the reactionary ideology of the conservative movement and sticking up for progressive values.

Business currently has the right to romp over the planet at will, while labour is told to stop at the border. It's an inbalance that should be evened up.

Gerald hits a home run!

Harry Reid said that making English only was racist, but poor Harry only speaks English, so he's calling himself a racist pig! Ha Ha

Liberals- you've got to love them!!!

"Part of the attraction of hiring undocumented workers as opposed to US citizens is that employers are spared the costs of workman's comp, SS contributions and various other taxes that are required for every citizen hired."

Yes, but these are workers' rights issues, not just immigration matters.

Posted by Higgins

Workers rights issues? How so? Workers comp is mandatory for legal citizens and employers can be fined if they do not comply. How is this a workers issue if it's already mandatory? Workers Comp protects the workers and if employers are bypassing the system to hire illegals then that is less money in the insurance pool to support legal workers. If we did not have an illegal problem we would be putting more funds into SS, Workers Comp (which would lower the costs for employers, which would = more peolpe hired)and tax revenues paid by business's would increase.

Your statement on this issue is not even close!

I am convinced that the influx of illegal immigrants is not allowed for any benevolent purpose."

No, of course not, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing in itself.

Posted by Higgins

What part of "illegal" do you not understand?

If you support breaking the law for employers and illegal immigrants then why are progressives always whining about Bush breaking the law (which hasn't been proven by anyone yet)?

Saladin, just some brief replies to the points you rasied:

"Alex, I understand what you're saying, and in an ideal world unlimited immigration would not pose any problems."

Unlimited immigration is not without problems any more than, say, the sale of alcohol is.

But the problems of criminalising immigration are greater - as with historical efforts to criminalise alcohol sales in the US.

Posted by Higgins

Alex, you're wrong again. No ones criminalizing immigration. We allow so many people to come here legally just like every other country. Comparing this to criminalizing alcohol isn't even close. It would be more like comparing legal immigration to legal alcohol sales and illegal immigration to black market (illegal-moonshine) alcohol sales for a more accurate comparison.

David,

Concerning your post: Are you against building a wall or are you just against using Frost incorrectly?

You seem to not have a position other than the Frost comparison.

Also, are you against or for illegal immigration?

It would be nice to know where you stand!

"I know that immigration is what made this country, but it can hardly be said that it was good for everyone, I suspect the Native Americans would disagree with you on that point because it was a freakin disaster for them."

Well the difference here is between immigration and armed conquest of land and resources. But only the paranoid right are comparing Hispanic immigration to the conquest of America by Europe.

Posted by Higgins

Wrong again Alex. It was two democrat Govenors from border states that delcared a state of emergency to get federal funds. The drain of state resources to pay for the illegal problem is bankrupting their state economies.

The cost of illegal immigration:

PENDLETON, ORE. - Out of ideas and low on cash one cold morning, the man with the biggest badge in town put his meaty fingers on a keyboard and tapped out a letter to the leader of Mexico.

"Dear Precidente (sic) Fox," it began.

"My name is John Trumbo. I am Sheriff of Umatilla County in northeastern Oregon." Illegal immigrants "from your country" who committed crimes here, the letter said, cost Americans lots of money.

Last year, more than 360 of "your citizens" spent time in jail "at a cost of $63 a day which equates to a request for payment of $318,843," the letter concluded. "At this time, you will not be billed for medical, dental and transportation costs. Your prompt attention to this request will be very much appreciated."

Three months later, Trumbo reports, Vicente Fox still has not paid up. The Mexican president has issued no response.

***And this folks is just to house the criminals that come here in one town.

LBH,

"Your statement on this issue is not even close!"

To what?

"Workers rights issues? How so?"

Because they are workers and they do not have many rights.

"If we did not have an illegal problem we would be..."

Stop right there! You do have an "illegal problem" and what is more it is unlikely ever to go away. Immigration has been a major feature of every age of human history and it is unreasonable to imagine it could now - in this day and age - be brought to a halt, except possibly by an ultra-totalitarian state.

(Immigration into North Korea is pretty tightly controlled - I wonder if our friends at Fox news will start to praise the efficency of Pyongyang's undoubtedly successful entry controls.)

Of course, if you decriminalise immigrants, then you won't have an illegal problem either because the pursuit of work and a new life in another country will no longer constitute a crime to be punished, as was the case about a century ago when those famous words were inscribed on the Statue of Liberty.

I see you have written more...

"What part of "illegal" do you not understand?"

I fail to see why anyone thinks is a good argument. If the law is nonsense it is not an effective comeback to insist on enforcing bad law because it is the law.

I support a change in the laws of so that those seeking a new life in other countries are no longer regarded as criminals.

"If you support breaking the law for employers and illegal immigrants then why are progressives always whining about Bush breaking the law (which hasn't been proven by anyone yet)?"

You are conflating different issues and isn't clear which ones.

But if you want me to explain why desperate Mexican workers trying to make a living by doing necessary work in America are not morally equivalent to the NSA violating the Fourth Amendment while the President denied it, then i am prepared to. Is it necessary to do so? Apparently you regard the whole issue as mere whining, so it seems that it is.

"Comparing this to criminalizing alcohol isn't even close. It would be more like comparing legal immigration to legal alcohol sales and illegal immigration to black market (illegal-moonshine) alcohol sales for a more accurate comparison."

But that's what I did - compared illegal immigration to the black market in alcohol in the US in the 1920s and 1930s.

No analogy is perfect and they can always be challenged but there are similarities:

1) The Prohibition of alcohol and of migrant workers both create/d a black market where organised crime seeks to meet needs/wants that are not met legitimately - providing alcohol to willing customers in the first case, providing transport and false documentation in the latter. In both cases, bad policy making creates a niche for organsied and dangerous criminal elements that wouldn't otherwise exist.

2) Both policies are substantial failures, attempts to enforce unenforceable laws.

3) Both policies prompted/are prompting US administrations to acknowledge reality, abandon an unsustainable situation and change the law.

Hastert: If You Earn $40,000 a Year and Have a Family of Two Children, You Don't Pay Any Taxes

During a late session last night, Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-IL) made a stunning claim on the House floor:

Well, folks, if you earn $40,000 a year and have a family of two children, you don't pay any taxes. So you probably, if you don't pay any taxes, you are not going to get a very big tax cut.

Watch it:

While someone with a $40,000 salary and a family of four paid little or no federal income taxes last year, Hastert ignores various other taxes paid by all Americans payroll taxes, gas taxes, sales taxes, etc.

Consider payroll taxes, which go to paying for Social Security and Medicare. Assuming their entire $40,000 in salary came from wages, this family paid $3,060 (7.65 percent of $40,000) in federal payroll taxes last year. (Note: The employer also contributes this amount, but most economists "believe that the portion of the payroll tax paid by the employer is borne by the worker.")

Hastert, who earns a hefty $212,010 a year salary, doesn't seem to understand that families across America are facing higher health care costs, mortgage payments, and gas prices. And yes, they also have to pay their taxes.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Talk about not knowing what he is talking about?

OMG What a jerk! He is making law and has not a clue about reality. Not to mention according to Sibel Edmunds he is a bag man involved with some very shady dealings. (just like every other politician but worse - the speaker has power to abuse and does so)

To believe your own spew is the root of all delusion.

"Better a cruel truth than a comfortable delusion." ~ Edward Abbey (1927 - 1989)

capt

"Wrong again Alex. It was two democrat Govenors from border states that delcared a state of emergency to get federal funds. The drain of state resources to pay for the illegal problem is bankrupting their state economies."

My claim here, in response to an argument put by Saladin, was that only the paranoid right were comparing Hispanic immigration to the genocide of Native Americans by European settlers.

Your statement that Democratic governors are appealing for state funds to enforce immigration laws does not contradict this claim in any way.

And again, note that the costs of illegal immigration are from the effort to enforce bad laws. The cost of deploying the National Guard to the border, or to construct some version of the Berlin Wall along it will also be expensive - but the costs are incurred not by immigration but the pointless effort to suppress it.

No Lousy Reading Comprehension here. My son just graduated Magna Cum Laude, Phi Beta Kappa, double major History and English from Hamline University! He did it. Yahoooooooo!

OH BTW,
My son Thomas.....

Congratulations to Thomas and his devoted Mom. Cheers!

It seems too many are taking this immigration issues far too seriously. Bush is not even trying to solve any problem he has already committed to privatize the administration and supervision, he cut 9,790 Border Patrol Agents... Feb. 9, 2005 and says the 6,000 are only temporary.

Now consider what a monumental failure this will be. Bush has cut nearly 10,000 border agents substituted the NG? They are there only until the government can replace the administration with a contractor even though such action may not be legal.

Bush just wants another $1.9 billion dollars of our grandchildren's money to distract from his failed policies and the most expensive war in the history of history.

Imagine how much more convienent it will be when the corporations control the border. The big corporations have not begun to get creative with the concept of indentured servitude. If a person is "illegal" they can be incarcerated and must work off their crime by being a slave.

I make no excuse for such a dark vision of the future. Bush and his crew have done nothing good and have no intention of changing their ways. Look for the absolute most bizarre stupid backwards way they communicate - they always say the opposite of what they mean then say they manufactured a new reality.

capt

Hastert is a hateful bloated ignorant fat f!&%. His immigration bill is heavy-handed, punitive and counter-productive. It's shamful: Haster was a successful wrestling and football coach and never developed a capacity to understand the problems other people face.

Has anyone else noticed their phone clicking when they make calls? The other day I thought I heard someone sneeze.

Even if one were idiotic enough to misanthropically quote Frost for the purpose of supporting fence building, one need remember that the fences that needed mending in those parts, and indeed across much of the world (even Hawaii) were made of rocks, piled no more than two feet above the surface, and maybe a foot to 18 inches wide. They were to divide pasture, and demarcate property; hardly ones that were designed to control people at all.

Laughing Monsters

In the Black(water)

According to Blackwater's government contracts, obtained by The Nation, from September 8 to September 30, 2005, Blackwater was paid $409,000 for providing fourteen guards and four vehicles to "protect the temporary morgue in Baton Rouge, LA." That contract kicked off a hurricane boon for Blackwater. From September to the end of December 2005, the government paid Blackwater at least $33.3 million--well surpassing the amount of Blackwater's contract to guard Ambassador Paul Bremer when he was head of the US occupation of Iraq. And the company has likely raked in much more in the hurricane zone. Exactly how much is unclear, as attempts to get information on Blackwater's current contracts in New Orleans have been unsuccessful.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

See the beauty of Bushworld is private companies are run by the same mother F’•rs that used to fail running the government. ie: Brownie as a consultant for FEMA?

So, as a private company these slugs can bleed the public coffers dry without having to disclose, report or suffer the oversight the government imposes on their profit.

Fascism pure and simple and as people born into a mythology of freedom we must resist.

"The Depth of your Mythology is the Extent of your Effectiveness." ~ John Maxwell

capt

My son just graduated Magna Cum Laude, Phi Beta Kappa, double major History and English from Hamline University! He did it. Yahoooooooo!

Congrats!

The Madness of George W. Bush

Jeanne @ #58,
Congratulations on the academic accomplishments of your son. He really graduated cum laude?

I think I graduated, "Lawdy, how come"?

'Never Before!' Our Amnesiac Torture Debate

It was the "Mission Accomplished" of George W. Bush's second term, and an announcement of that magnitude called for a suitably dramatic location. But what was the right backdrop for the infamous "We do not torture" declaration? With characteristic audacity, the Bush team settled on downtown Panama City.

It was certainly bold. An hour and a half's drive from where Bush stood, the US military ran the notorious School of the Americas from 1946 to 1984, a sinister educational institution that, if it had a motto, might have been "We do torture." It is here in Panama and, later, at the school's new location in Fort Benning, Georgia, where the roots of the current torture scandals can be found. According to declassified training manuals, SOA students--military and police officers from across the hemisphere--were instructed in many of the same "coercive interrogation" techniques that have since migrated to Guant?namo and Abu Ghraib: early morning capture to maximize shock, immediate hooding and blindfolding, forced nudity, sensory deprivation, sensory overload, sleep and food "manipulation," humiliation, extreme temperatures, isolation, stress positions--and worse. In 1996 President Clinton's Intelligence Oversight Board admitted that US-produced training materials condoned "execution of guerrillas, extortion, physical abuse, coercion and false imprisonment."

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

A must read if you have not yet.

capt

The demonic has taken control of our devil incarnate nation. The demons of our making have total control over us.

The demonic has taken control of our devil incarnate nation. The demons of our making have total control over us.

More Troops Being Deployed to Iraq

At a time when the Pentagon hoped to be withdrawing troops from Iraq, ABC News has learned additional U.S. troops are going in.

Pentagon officials tell ABC news that two battalions — about 1,300 troops — are moving into Iraq from Kuwait. With the additional troops, there will be more than 134,000 U.S. troops in Iraq.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

What war, eh?

capt

meanwhile back home in the mountains of lower slobovia, achmed's wife is walking along whistling her favorite tune "sneaky man sneak" by possum pete's pals when she spies a new billboard sign for the very first time:
TRY OUR NEW FISH BURRITOS!
fish burritos?, she thinks to herself. wherever would they find a fish way up here in the mountains of lower slobovia? and what the devil is a burrito?

Bush is certifiable

Burrito

The 30-inch burrito story came from the Yahoo News Service. Yahoo did not mention whether or not the burrito was an all bean burrito. An all bean burrito would have put the burrito in the WMD category.

In fact the all bean burrito may be our answer to an alternative energy source. When people eat the all bean burrito, the gaseous emissions from our human bodies may offer an important research project to keep Americans away from their gluttonous and voracious appetite for oil that places our country in a constant war mode.

It is my understanding that cheney and his band of goons and thugs have now a patent on caked animal and human dung that can be used as an alternative fuel source for Americans in northern states. The sale of caked animal and human dung should be on the shelves before the winter months commence. An insider says that the hold-up for announcing the sale has to do with the settled price for the sale of this dung. The insider also says that the settled price for caked animal and human dung will qualify cheney and his band of goons and thugs for the "Golden Fleece Award."

Excellent picture (under construction) of the lightweight trusses holding up each floor of the towers.

.jpg/trusses

and here's a schematic of same...

.jpg/schematic

Thank you, Alan. saladin, why are there no 110 floor skyscrapers in California? What is the building requirement for hurricane force winds in California? Why? What is the New York code for earthquakes? Why? What is the New York City code for hurricane force winds? Why? How long did the truss-built towers last?

More Troops Being Deployed to Iraq

WASHINGTON, May 19 (UPI) -- The U.S. Food and Drug Administration wants to add a warning label on packaging for an antibiotic that has been linked to liver failure.

An internal FDA memo written by the Division of Drug Risk Evaluation described "profound" liver injury in some patients occurring within the first few days of taking the medication. The memo said that 12 of the cases had few other possible causes, The Wall Street Journal reported.

The liver-failure rate was "clinically remarkable" and "consistent with an association" between the medication and liver failure, the FDA document stated.

The estimated rate of reported liver failures linked to Ketek was 23 per 10 million prescriptions as compared with a reported rate on competing products of of 6.6 per 10 million prescriptions for Avelox, six for Tequin and 2.1 for Levaquin.

A large clinical trial that was intended to prove the drug's safety was hampered by fraud and other problems, yet the FDA approved the medication anyway. In 2005, 3.35 million prescriptions were written for Keteck.

Despite concerns about safety, the FDA approved Ketek for sinusitis, bronchitis and pneumonia.

The FDA's drug memo recommends a warning on the label in either bold type or a black box, mentioning "reports of liver necrosis and liver failure."

*****end of clip*****

Seems odd the FDA would make such a fuss over Ketek when the number one cause of liver failure in the USA is acetaminophen - yep good old "safe" Tylenol - the number one cause of liver failure ahead of all of the hepatitis’, ahead of cirrhosis from alcohol and drug abuse.

'Safe' painkiller is leading cause of liver failure

capt

DB and Alan,

Win the 911 post of the day? WTF?

Did somebody pull your chatty Kathy string?

I think you guys are very funny but dreadfully redundant. I thought you guys only posted about 911 at your physforum? I am sure everybody that is interested will join you there.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." ~ Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

capt

a lovely photo! and if you take a step back from there you will see the other half of the light weight trusses:

.jpg/other half

Just for clarity, what they call "trusses", we called "bar joists". I even sent a few of you guys a picture of an ironworker installing some for the 'roof of the roof'... the ceiling above our machine room that's on the roof. That picture was of the "Galleria Plaza Hotel" when we were building it... now called "Westin Galleria Hotel", here in Houston.

Thanks James (for #80). I wanted to see that one again, but it would've taken awhile to find where you posted it before.

Programmer speeds search for gravitational waves

A global effort to detect gravitational waves has received an unexpected boost after a volunteer improved the computer code used comb through data from ground-based detectors.

Akos Fekete, a Hungarian programmer, is one of network of people who contribute their spare computer processing power to a project called Einstein@home, launched by the American Physical Society (APS) in March 2005. This links volunteers' PCs via the internet and uses their combined power to probe for data patterns that could reveal gravitational waves.

Gravitational waves are ripples in space-time predicted by Einstein's theory of general relativity that should be radiated by massive objects such as black holes. Directly detecting them would provide astronomers with a very valuable new tool for observing the cosmos.

The data for Einstein@home is collected by two ground-based laser interferometers - LIGO in the US and GEO 600 in Germany. These two instruments use laser beams to try to detect the incredibly small distortions to space-time that gravitational waves are believed to cause.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Tweak a little assembler and - there you go!

capt

and if you take yet another step back you can see the entirety of the light weight truss construction:

.jpg/entirety

I must have been mistaken.

I'll check back when you guys are done!

Have a blast!

capt

*every glass and steel building I worked on had I-beams bolted (then later welded also) to gusset plates on the columns, to support the concrete floors. But they also had columns spread throughout the floor, not just at the perimeter and the core.

capt, thanks for the post regarding gravitational waves. Also, I'm the only one who stated that I wouldn't post what I found there here. (If that makes sense...) I finally managed to convince Alan to do so and he clearly enjoys it. Still haven't convinced james or saladin to come and read just the latest entries and maybe post a question... Anyway, it is only about WTC, not other events on 2001 Sep 11.

JUDY --- I'll look at the site you mentioned if you will post a link. Otherwise I am new enough to webland that I am not sure how to find it.

"Workers rights issues? How so?"

Because they are workers and they do not have many rights.

Posted by Alex

This is a very general statement, give me some examples in what you feel are not many rights. Are you saying unions are not effective? How about class action law suits? Is this why everyone wants to come here to work, because we have so few rights?
______________________________________________

If we did not have an illegal problem we would be..."

Stop right there! You do have an "illegal problem" and what is more it is unlikely ever to go away.

By Alex

Correct, if we choose to do nothing as you propose then it will never go away.
_________________________________________________

Of course, if you decriminalise immigrants, then you won't have an illegal problem either because the pursuit of work and a new life in another country will no longer constitute a crime to be punished, as was the case about a century ago when those famous words were inscribed on the Statue of Liberty.
By Alex

Alex, we are a nation of laws and the current law says that we will only allow so many immigrants to enter our country through a legal process and this is for good reason.

Do you support legalizing all immigrants even if they have criminal backgrounds? What if they come to just take advantage of our solcial services programs without any intention to work or pay taxes? If they commit a crime here in the US do you support paying to jail these immigrants at the taxpayers expense? For how long? Life?

I agree that a border fence is not the answer. The correct response is to enforce current laws and send Mexico the bill.

"What part of "illegal" do you not understand?"

I fail to see why anyone thinks is a good argument. If the law is nonsense it is not an effective comeback to insist on enforcing bad law because it is the law.

I support a change in the laws of so that those seeking a new life in other countries are no longer regarded as criminals.

By Alex

Again, would you allow this for anyone? What if they are criminals(mureders, gang memebers, drug dealers, pedophiles, etc.) Anything for a chance at a new start? Is this a progressive fuzzy feeling to fell good about yourself?

As soon as the Cubanos in Miami all speak English and the Amish give up speaking anything but English, we should force George Bush to learn English.

"If you support breaking the law for employers and illegal immigrants then why are progressives always whining about Bush breaking the law (which hasn't been proven by anyone yet)?"

You are conflating different issues and isn't clear which ones.

But if you want me to explain why desperate Mexican workers trying to make a living by doing necessary work in America are not morally equivalent to the NSA violating the Fourth Amendment while the President denied it, then i am prepared to. Is it necessary to do so? Apparently you regard the whole issue as mere whining, so it seems that it is.

By Alex

Mexican workers come here by the millions legally and shouldn't be punished by soft progressives and Bush that want to give the illegals a free ride.

There is no difference in upholding the law no matter if it's giving a ticket for speeding, drinking and driving, stealing money from the boy scouts, murdering your neighbor, or coming here illegally. The difference is in the punishment. Our legal system works, the problem is that some people don't understand how it works.

Re #90: sourcer, are you sure he is capable of it?

As is generally the case most people focus on the little guys. People trying to find jobs, feed their families etc. On Lou Dobbs ( who is obsessed with this topic) a few evenings ago, he reported that in 2004 there were three employers fined and in 2005 O. Why are folks often looking down the ladder instead of up.

Go after those who profit from hiring illegal immigrants. OOp! We know that will not

Crackdown on hiring of illegal workers shifts to employers
Updated 5/5/2006 The Arizona Republic
By Stephanie Armour, USA TODAY
SILVER SPRING, Md. —†The sun is barely up over the horizon when Juan Reyes arrives at Casa de Maryland, which operates a job site for day laborers here. Most days he comes to this parking lot to wait for painting, landscaping or other jobs. Reyes mills about with the other men who sit in groups quietly talking or sharing steaming tamales eaten off paper plates. He needs work, he says, so he can send money to support his three children, ages 18, 12 and 10, in Guatemala.
"Sometimes it's very hard, very hard (to find work)," says Reyes, 36, who is an undocumented worker who lives in Takoma Park. Still, he says, employers rarely ask to see paperwork and hire him even though he's in the country illegally. "They never ask."

But pressure is on to change that. Last month, the Department of Homeland Security vowed to expand its efforts to target employers who hire illegal immigrants, with Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff pledging to "counter the unscrupulous tactics of employers."

Signs of stiffer enforcement have already appeared. Last month, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents arrested seven current and former supervisors of IFCO Systems North America, a Houston-based pallet-supply company. They've been charged with conspiring to transport, harbor and induce illegal immigrants to reside in the USA for financial gain. The conspiracy charge carries a penalty of up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000 for each undocumented worker.

Agents also apprehended more than 1,100 illegal workers at IFCO plants in 26 states. ICE says managers transported illegal immigrants to and from work, paid their rent and then deducted money from the workers' monthly paychecks to cover these expenses.

The pledge to crack down and the recent raid are spurring debate about federal enforcement of immigration laws as they pertain to employers. Some immigrants and others opposed to stiffer enforcement have held protests, such as the ones Monday outside IFCO's offices. But critics say the government's current practice is to look the other way at employers who hire undocumented workers, creating an illegal immigrant crisis while unfairly giving employers who skirt the law a free ride.

"The Bush administration is committed to a policy of non-enforcement, and that's why the overall effort at enforcement is going to fail," says Steven Camarota, research director at the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington, D.C., non-profit research group focused on immigration. "We don't do anything to employers who hire illegals. There's a complete lack of commitment."

Employers rarely penalized

Employers who hire undocumented workers such as Reyes to do a host of jobs —†from construction and meat packing to agricultural work and painting —†rarely face penalties, even though a federal law passed in 1986 criminalized the hiring of illegal immigrants.

In fiscal year 1999, the government issued 417 notices of "intent to fine" employers for knowingly making such illegal hires. But by 2004, that number had dropped to three, according to a June 21, 2005, Government Accountability Office report. Worksite enforcement amounted to less than 5% of all of the federal government's ICE investigation activities. Since 9/11, the government has "almost exclusively focused worksite enforcement resources" of illegal immigration on sites such as airports and nuclear power plants, according to the report.

But federal officials say they've been strategically shifting away from administrative fines to criminal charges —†last fiscal year, that approach resulted in 127 criminal convictions, up from 46 the previous year.

And already, word has spread that the government is cracking down on employers, which in some cases has undocumented workers saying it's harder to find jobs because employers are more fearful they could face possible repercussions for hiring them.

DB, is this the link of JUDY? : reopen911.org/

We know that will not happen that would be Bush's base.

Re #93: Thank you, kathleen.

Daddy's flown across the ocean
Leaving just a memory
Snapshot in the family album
Daddy what else did you leave for me?
Daddy, what'd'ja leave behind for me?!?
All in all it was just a brick in the wall.
All in all it was all just bricks in the wall.

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Waiting for the worms..., or for just the shoe to drop.

Meanwhile I've been enjoying working outside on the deck and in the garden, sorry to have missed you all for a couple of days.

There is this little gem to share:

Should Gen. Hayden Be Confirmed or Court-Martialed?
By Ray McGovern
t r u t h o u t | Perspective
Saturday 20 May 2006

"Court-martialed," says one highly-respected former DIRNSA (which, for the uninitiated, stands for "Director, National Security Agency"). The comment came amid a private burst of indignation at the news that Gen. Mike Hayden had bowed to administration pressure to skirt the law and violate what until then was the NSA's "First Commandment" - Thou Shalt Not Eavesdrop on US Citizens.

Another highly respected former DIRNSA, Adm. Bobby Ray Inman, on May 8, expressed serious reservations over the administration's flouting of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) of 1978 by ordering warrantless eavesdropping on Americans. During a New York Public Library panel discussion including New York Times reporter James Risen, who originally broke the eavesdropping story, Inman said, "In my view, this activity was not authorized by a [congressional] resolution.... There clearly was a line in the FISA statutes which says you couldn't do this." Inman also pointed out the "extra sentence put in the bill that said, 'You can't do anything that is not authorized by this bill.'"

Adm. Inman added, "My problem is not going through the Congress to revise the statute," if FISA needed to be amended to deal with issues not anticipated in 1978. He spoke proudly of the earlier ethos at the NSA, where "it was deeply ingrained that you operate within the law and you get the law changed if you need to." As for now, Inman insisted, "What you want is to get away from this idea that they can continue doing it." He placed the blame squarely on Vice President Dick Cheney, whose attitude, he said, has not changed from when he was chief of staff for President Gerald Ford. Inman gave this account of Cheney's input:

"We don't need law. The president has authorized these in the past and can authorize them now."

More.

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On English as the official language. Doesn't it appear that the word official has been made a worthless advertising slogan of late, anyway? As in the official snack food of your favorite sports league? Would that make you switch from beer nuts to pretzels if beer nuts were your wont?

Of course, if pretzels wants a rematch with the prez, I'm rooting for pretzels.

But, if English does become the official language...doesn't that disqualify the Wush from holding office?

Jest sayin'.

"Comparing this to criminalizing alcohol isn't even close. It would be more like comparing legal immigration to legal alcohol sales and illegal immigration to black market (illegal-moonshine) alcohol sales for a more accurate comparison."

But that's what I did - compared illegal immigration to the black market in alcohol in the US in the 1920s and 1930s.

By Alex

But this is were you get it wrong because your comparison does not take into consideration legal immigrants by comparing it to the 1920-30.

We have a legal process for immigartion, just like we have a legal process for selling booze and gambling.

Some people take the easy way by trying to bypass the legal system like illegal immigration compared to selling alcohol illegally to say minors or hard liquor in alcohol free zones in certain counties.

The difference between our views are that you want to give anyone a free ride to the US and be a citizen. I would stick to our current screening process that would allow people here on a temporary basis until they can prove they deserve to be here and kick out those who don't.

DB, how do you know I haven't been there? Because I don't post? Since I have spent 1 1/2 years examining every aspect of 9/11 I have been able to find, I don't feel the need to keep hammering on one single issue that is nothing but a lot of theories. I know bushco is lying because the preponderance of evidence proves it. That's all I need to know. I've put in the time and I've done a ton of research, no one will be able to convince me that bushco is not complicit in 9/11, either through knowledge beforehand and allowing the attacks to take place, or more likely, taking an active part, though I don't believe they had much to do with the actual planning. How or why those buildings fell or exactly what kind of planes crashed into them doesn't make a speck of difference, it doesn't change anything at all.

capt, you and your cohorts should be thanking DB and Alan for keeping "the topic" alive. That they continue to discuss WTC is part of the search for the truth, is it not?

As soon as the Cubanos in Miami all speak English and the Amish give up speaking anything but English, we should force George Bush to learn English.

By soucer

Good one, I would add Teddy Kennedy to be next. That would be sober English.

Katleen 93

Good point-I agree!!

Send the employers to Mexico with the illegals.

RS: "Of course, if pretzels wants a rematch with the prez, I'm rooting for pretzels."

LOL!

Why is this immigration debate heating up all of a sudden? Why are people who want to allow illegals to stay called "soft progressives" and those who want the laws strictly enforced called "racist?" I think both sides present valid points. If we are going to have laws regulating immigration, then they should be enforced. If they don't want to enforce them, as I suspect because of the North American union plan, why have these laws at all? Another fine controversy to widen the rift between left and right even more. If bush keeps it up we might have all out civil war!

We know that will not happen that would be Bush's base.
Kathleen

Now Kathleen, why would you say this? 40% of all new small business owners are Hispanic which are mostly democrats according to Pnade.

This is what I would place a bet on this week. That we will see some "false" evidence come out this week about Iran's "alleged" nuclear program. If Karl is indicted this week they will need something to blow it out of the water. I had read somehere the infamous Iran/Contra spy/liar false intelligence supplier had been hired by the Pentagon or State Department once again ( could this be true). And I am not kidding you that whenever Micheal Ledeen is missing from writing at National Review for more than two weeks something new and negative about Iran pops up.

Last Sunday on Chris Matthews in Chris's "Tell me something I don't know" segment Andrea Mitchell told Chris that there would be some undisputable intelligence about Iran's nuclear program that would be surfacing. (she was setting the stage) I'll put money on it Ledeen and Micheal Rubin are busy supplying it.

Anyone want to make a bet?

Saladin
104

Good point! You're correct! There are differing views within the Republican party and Democratic Party. I do not support Bush's blanket amnesty or the boredr wall that was approved by the senate 83-16 vote. No new laws, just enforce the current laws damnit!!

Here is something interesting I just stumbled upon:

According to [WTC designer Leslie Robertson], New York City has some of the worst wind loads i