That was no doubt an interesting debate, but I would hardly characterize it as "misleading."

In any event, we went with the best intelligence we had at the time. It's always easy to be the all-knowing "armchair quarterback" after the big game is over!

I propose that we will only know what happened to Saddam's WMD arsenal after we clean out that vipers nest in Syria and do some searching there.

David, I am one of the people who questioned the wisdom of invading Iraq in the first place. Even without the info congress had access to I knew that saddam had absolutely NOTHING to do with 9/11, and this was back when I believed the idiot propaganda bushco was catapulting. The fact that this war was planned well before 9/11 is something people like hitchens continually fail to acknowledge. The PNAC plan is also avoided, including the need, in writing, for an event to set it off, like a New Pearl Harbor. Important issues, constantly skirted and blown off. Is it any wonder we are facing a war of Armegeddon proportions? Is it any wonder more than half the US population doesn't have a clue what is going on right in their own backyard? Nothing but lies and half-truths, and a complicit media, will seal our fate.

Better watch that dissent Sal, you must conform. The gathering of data for future detention camp occupants will commence immediately, includes blogs like ours. Makes wiretaps look like childsplay. You WILL be indoctrinated and if you refuse, into slave labor camps making bullets out of DU. I cannot believe that the Constitution is debateable. Why is it that way with this gang of thugs? Now they are stratagizing a way to pass a law to make the Constitution fit the cabal, that way nobody broke the law, nobody gets punished, carry on as usual.

That was a fine example of their tortured logic... we didn't find any WMD's so therefore they must have had them!
oh yeahhhh, that's one for the books

Alan,

Ever heard of pristine crime scenes? No DNA, no fingerprints, no footprints, nothing! There's a DEAD BODY lying there, though.

By your reasoning there could not have been a murderer present because there's no evidence whatsoever he or she ever existed!!!

Get it now?

DEN,

I responded to your WTC Building 7 post on the other thread...

David, I implore you to get beyond hijinks in the lead up to war. Do not dismiss what is written here by us. 9/11 was a phoney event, a "Pearl Harbor" to drive every American into a state of FEAR. There are many more REAL threats to our great country, many have been stated here. We as true PATRIOTS need all the help getting the message across to the MSM. The country is entitled to know exactly what is going on behind their backs. Time is of the essence with the build up to bludgeon IRAN into submission. The Cabal is gaining more power every day, it is NOT going to get better unless WE make it better, PLEASE HELP!!

Ever heard of pristine crime scenes? No DNA, no fingerprints, no footprints, nothing! There's a DEAD BODY lying there, though.

haha nice try You're saying they found a WMD but don't know or can't prove how it got there?
You're logic sucks. There was no crime scene, let alone a pristine one.

*your

The only crime is how stupid Tim and his comments are.

Ever heard of pristine crime scenes? No DNA, no fingerprints, no footprints, nothing! There's a DEAD BODY lying there, though.

By your reasoning there could not have been a murderer present because there's no evidence whatsoever he or she ever existed!!!

Get it now?

Sadly, Im sure you do Tim.

LET's PLAY MATCH THE QUOTE TO THE CELEBRITY THINKER!!!
____________________

1)"...she said, "I go by logic," meaning that if Saddam once had WMDs (and if UN inspectors were saying that accounting discrepancies remained, as they were saying), then it was logical to assume Saddam still had WMDs. Proof was not necessary..."

2)"...Given that Iraq had possessed chemical and biological weapons in the 1990s, shouldn't a few have remained? In fact, he went on, the zero finding was so suspicious that it was not credible..."

3)"...To know that we know what we know, and to know that we do not know what we do not know, THAT is true knowledge..."

4)"..."Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know..."

"THINKERS"

a)Copernicus

b)Donald Rumsfeld

c)Crispy Bitchin's

d)Roofie Wedgiewood

1=?
2=?
3=?
4=?

You've got 60 seconds....GO!

Alan,

Well, duh. It's you who can't even get an analogy. Work with me here.

You, Alan are a police officer. You investigate a crime scene and see where someone was murdered with a weapon. There is no weapon to be found, there are also no footprints, no DNA, no fingerprints, nothing.

Now, logically what do you think at this point? Wouldn't you ASSUME that since there's a dead body with multiple stab wounds that the knife actually existed, even though there is now NO EVIDENCE of it? Well???

O.K., now stay with me here. There was ample evidence of Saddam's WMD program, his use of these weapons and his continued efforts to prevent us from finding them. Ask yourself now, "What does this mean?"

"...Ever heard of pristine crime scenes? No DNA, no fingerprints, no footprints, nothing! There's a DEAD BODY lying there, though..."

e)Dumbass

sorry, forgot one!

Now, logically what do you think at this point?

I think you're nuts, that's what I think. In order for your analogy to be relevant, you'd have to be standing there looking at a WMD. That's what I tried to point out to you in the previous post. That you can't think straight isn't my problem.
Wanna try another stuuuuupid analogy?

If you are a patriotic poster who opposes the war, how do you debate a moronic poster who favors the war? You might as well debate a wall.

I'm listening to Feingold at the NSA hearing, at cspan. He's just now confronting Abu Gonzales.

"So THEN, Alan, you blow up the apartment, render the neighborhood dangerous to life with depleted uranium, destroy the infrastucture of the city. Throw the entire State into civil war....

THEN you move on to the NEXT apartment building!"

You've GOTTA see the logic, now, ALAN!!!

L.A. Mayor Blindsided by Bush Announcement

L.A. Mayor Blindsided by Bush Announcement

LOS ANGELES - Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa said Thursday he was blindsided by President Bush's announcement of new details on a purported 2002 hijacking plot aimed at a downtown skyscraper, and described communication with the White House as "nonexistent." "I'm amazed that the president would make this (announcement) on national TV and not inform us of these details through the appropriate channels," the mayor told The Associated Press. "I don't expect a call from the president —†but somebody

Her name is B.J.

Thank you Mr. Nader for your open letter of July 28, 2005. You are able to express your thoughts through riveting words. I can only express my thoughts through nightmares.

My dreams are more like nightmares that I cannot shake. Here is one of my nightmares.

Her actual name is Barbara Jenna Doe. B.J. was an all American young lady - attractive, intelligent, a vibrant personality who made people feel good. She was planning to go to Yale in the Fall. B.J. did very well on her SAT and Act tests. Her summer was planned in preparation to attend Yale in September.

The military draft was reinstated and B.J. received her letter to report to boot Camp in mid-August. In December B.J. came home for Christmas. Her parents were excited to see her. Daddy had a gleam in his eye every time B.J. was home. Barbara Jenna looked sharp and impressive in her formal military uniform. Her parents were proud of her.

After Christmas B.J. returned to camp and in mid-January B.J. and her company received orders that they were going to attack Iran as part of bush's Christmas wish list through more lies. In mid-February her parents received the dreaded letter saying that Barbara Jenna Doe was killed in action. The letter did not reveal how she was killed but friends were able to find out that B.J.'s truck hit a land mine. The truck exploded and her one leg went through the window of a nearby building; her torso remained with the truck; and her head went through the windshield of the truck and rolled down the street and stopped at a curb. What a waste of human potential to be killed for the bush lies.

B.J. was not like one of bush sr.'s fourteen grandchildren who have never served in the military services. She was drafted and she had to serve in the military armed services.

Yeah, Paul,

THAT's because the mayor doesn't NEED to know about the ones that DIDN't happen, because if it DIDN't happen, then that suggests that it DID!

And since it DID happen, the mayor's to BLAME because he should've known what he didn't know!

Duh!

See! It is easy when you're ridiculously logical!

Have you ever heard about flinging shit? That's how Bush makes the news regarding ghost events. He wings it or better known as flinging shit. Just more lies from his basket of lies!!!

Paul, Saladin

The LA mayor wasn't the mayor in 2002. It would have been the outgoing mayor that would have briefed him on this information. Another disfunctional Democrat.

Hajji

Re 20

It's all so clear to me know.

Pathological liars must lie, the truth is not important to them, THEY are important to themselves. Know that the truth is the OPPOSITE of what was said.

I was in the audience last, though I'm a proud Brooklynite. Corn was clearly the hero and Hitchens the one the crowd loved to hate. Paraphrasing Corn: If there was any debate in the intelligence community, Bush had the moral responsibility to present the argument and publicly debate the merits of a war of choice. Hitchens and Wedgwood couln't refute that central point. Just went on about how Saddam was a bad guy.

DEN

I agree, pathological liars are impeached , disbarred, cheat on their spouse's, and then lie to a grand jury and then directly to the American public and confess that they did not have sexual relations with that women. However, it all depends on what the meaning of "is," is.

What a MAROON!

More info on heating one's house. A friend out here in mid Michigan has propane and just filled his tank to the tune of $778.47. He said when they first bought that house back in 1999 it was only 79¢ per unit. He said his salary certainly hasn't increased by 2½ times since then.

un-effing-real! when provided with an actual report by a renowned professor of physics regarding the collapse of WTC7 into it's own footprint complete with photos and actual mathematics, a certain someone still persists with the claim that all is hunky dory with the official fairytale! perhaps a certain someone should be made aware of the fact that WTC leaseholder Larry Silverstein admitted that WTC7 had been pulled. he later tried to retract that statement, but there are no take backs on live TV!

Thank you Tim your crime scene logic proves the U.N. sanctions were working and clamping down with greater restriction this whole mess would have run its course.For now lets find more answers in the funny papers.

DESPERATE REPUBLICANS ( has potential for a new reality show)

David , I was thinking that in many ways it is a compliment when these folks start calling you crazy.. it proves they are getting desperate.

Buchanan knows the Bush administration lied, he was against the invasion, and knows the 2006 elections is looking questionable for the Republicans..he knows they are in trouble.

The Bush administration continues to "spin, spin , spin" and while they continue to spin they have set the stage for sanctions or military action in Iran.

John Bolton has been busy twisting "arms" and creating a way to trump the Iaea's process, if the security council does not vote for sanctions after Mr. El Baradei's report in early March.
----------------------------------------------------
All of this dancing around the facts just proves they are shameless.

We know "there were no WMD'S."

We also know that the Bush administration LIED and they have yet to be held accountable for those LIES.

WE know that Cindy Sheehan's son is dead... (dead Tim dead) along with over 2300 other american soldiers.

We know Fifteen thousand american soldiers are injured.

We know that over 100,ooo Iraqi people are...dead (funny Tim how the U.S. knows how many people Saddam killed, yet can't verify how many Iraqi people we have killed and injured).

Tim do you have kids? Can you imagine that your kid went to Iraq under false pretenses and died. Do you have one ounce of compassion or empathy in that skin of yours?

These arguments, facts, figures and opinions that we share and dispute here about the war in Iraq have nothing to do with being a Democrat, a Republican, or an Independent.

I know that I am struggling with the LIES. The lies that the Bush administration told to american families, to the world that have resulted in senseless deaths, senseless destruction.

American and Iraqi parents will never see their children again, wives have lost husbands, husbands have lost wives, children have lost parents, children have lost parents.

I know that if I lost one of my three daughters to a pack of lies told by my elected officials. Those elected officials would need to be looking over their shoulders every minute, for the rest of their lives.

The lies that the Bush administration told have changed peoples lives forever and forever is a very, long time.

You have entered the Twilight Zone.
DEN, the homeland goons, the CIA, FBI, NSA, DEA, ATF, and any other facist US dept. of ultimate control of every living person in the US can KISS MY ASS!! That goes for all war mongering traitors like the DOT as well! Cowards, fools wolves in sheeps clothing, I can smell you a mile away. You better pray there is no hell. If there is I'm sure Lucifer is licking his chops waiting for you. Where is our Patrick Henry when you need one??

#1 Tim... no need to be an "armchair quarterback" after the game/invasion.

Before the pre-emptive invasion all you had to be was a "soccer mom" listening to BBc and NPR daily.

Before the war you could hear Scott Ritter, Robert MCNamara, Jimmy Carter, Zbigniew Bryzinski, Arthur Schlesenger(sp?), Madeline Albright, CIA ANALYST, IAEA Mr. El Baradei, Genral Zinni and other military experts advice "don't do it"..."there are no WMD's" "we will end up in a quagmire"..."the right wing radical neo-cons are out of control"...

No Tim you don't have to be an "armchair quarterback after the game" to know that the Bush administration lied and lied and lied. You just have to be willing to fact the facts.

There were so many people forewarning of exactly where our nation finds itself. IN A QUAQMIRE.

Tim the war in Iraq was a war of choice, and deep down you know it.

Cynthia McKinney ROCKS!! Check out this video

On the heating note....

Keeping a fire in the fireplace, from sunset until bed-time has cut the winter electric consumption (but not the increased bill!) in half.

I live about 20 miles from the Oconee Nuclear power station and Duke Energy's biggest hydroelectric dams. Not clear on how much of my electric is provided by each, but I suppose that once it is on the grid, everybody on that grid shares the same percentage of individual generation methods.

I'm up to my uhm, eyeballs in downed trees, especially after the torado last summer and the ice storm just before christmas. (although I'm wondering what to do with all the pine...summer bonfires, I suppose) I've given my brother, a woodcarver, select pieces, especially the cedar.

I wonder how much my wood-burning contributes to global warming, compared to my percentage of coal-fired, hydroelectric and local nuclear? Financially and aesthetically, it makes a lot of sense for me to burn the wood. (I cook a LOT with propane, but the good BBQ is always hickory charcoal.)

The double-wide mansion is on a hill, facing SSW, so the sun does a good job during the day.

The temps here have been averaging low 30's at night and 50 -60's daytime highs.

This would be a PERFECT spot for solar, but who's got the cash on hand for conversion?

Soakin' up the Rays in SC,

-T

Buchanan knows the Bush administration lied, he was against the invasion,....

yes, but why doesn't he just come right out and say it? they (buchanan, et al) cannot continue to beat around the bush, to have their cake and eat it too, to not call a spade a spade - until he and others REALLY speak out they are complicit.

On the personal note, Spc.Spanky called last night from (DELETED), in Northern Iraq. He was issued good body armor and their vehicles are all factory or up-armored. His job is all about making sure that people who leave the base come back with everything they left with (Hummers, rocket-launchers, fingers, toes, heads, etc) and no more.(local ladies, liquor, those long lost WMD's) He couldn't really say much, even though we talked for almost an hour.

He hopes he can still pull the night shifts when it gets hot. Says the temps there right now are similar to Carolina winters.

I told him to tell everybody that even us "Librul Lefties" are thinking of them and doing whatever we can to get them home, safely.

Drop me an e-mail, if you want to recieve Spc.Spanky updates in the future...

Click on my name...

-T

David,

I only read the first part of your piece and already have a comment. Using their logic, one could argue that because Bush is a mad-man and because the US definitely HAS WMD's, which we've definitely used before and because we were an agressor in the Iraq war, therefore, it would be appropriate to invade the US to take out GWBush before he strikes again (Iran).

Scary.

Hajji,

1 = d
2 = c
3 = a
4 = b

I didn't look to see if anyone else answered this...

flan

You really need to stop drinkin that kool-aid!

James Ha,

...dance around the mulberry, upend the Irishman, dally in the dell, lickity-split to the open safe, google the nightwatchman, take pictures...

a good cliche' is a beautiful thing!

-T

flan,

It was a rhetorical quiz...

I read the Copernicus quote in "Uncle John's Slightly Irregular Bathroom Reader." and was reminded of Rummy-nose's stupid attempt at getting there...and then Timmy, who's wife rides a tractor, came about and...

Well...it was something to make me go..huh?

-T

Cynthia McKinney gave a very impressive speech but is anyone listening?

Look at the bust and you will note that there is no outdate.

President Bush Forever

Mr. David Corn,

That is what I am talking about. You expose the lies, their only repsonse is "Saddam bad, Busheney good" and people are listening and watching.

Keep up the good fight for the truth!

Thanks

Kirk

Finally, my words are getting out to the America people. THERE WILL BE NO 2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION!!!!! I'm not always be right but I'm never wrong!!!!!

"The trouble with most folks isn't so much their ignorance, as knowing so many things that ain't so." : Josh Billings - [Henry Wheeler Shaw] (1818-1885) American humorist and lecturer

=
"Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear -­ kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervour ­- with the cry of grave national emergency. Always, there has been some terrible evil at home, or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it.": General Douglas MacArthur - (1880-1964) WWII Supreme Allied Commander of the Southwest Pacific, Supreme United Nations Commander 1957

=
"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it: Milton Mayer - Excerpt from pages 166-73 of "They Thought They Were Free" First published in 1955

=
"A radical is one who speaks the truth." : Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. - Congressman, father of famous aviator - June 15, 1957

===

Thanks ICH Newsletter!

Bush Administration Officials’†Lies about Iraq’≥ Supposed Weapons of Mass Destruction in Their Own Words

Here is a taste :

Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.
- Dick Cheney, speech to VFW National Convention, Aug. 26, 2002

Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.
- George W. Bush, speech to UN General Assembly, Sept. 12, 2002

No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people and the stability of the world than the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.
- Donald Rumsfeld, testimony to Congress, Sept. 19, 2002

The world is also uniting to answer the unique and urgent threat posed by Iraq.
- George W. Bush, Nov. 23, 2002

If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world.
- White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, press briefing, Dec. 2, 2002

We know for a fact that there are weapons there.
- White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, press briefing, Jan. 9, 2003

What we know from UN inspectors over the course of the last decade is that Saddam Hussein possesses thousands of chemical warheads, that he possesses hundreds of liters of very dangerous toxins that can kill millions of people.
- White House spokesman Dan Bartlett, CNN interview, Jan. 26, 2003

Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard, and VX nerve agent…Æ The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.
- George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003

We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more.
Colin Powell, remarks to UN Security Council, Feb. 5, 2003

**********************

Pages and pages of more and more outrageous lies.

capt

Corporations and the military armed services will never ever permit Bush to leave the WH. He is forever the emperor of an evil nation and Nazi Americans give homage to him as their savior.

When I reflect on my predictions in my dreams, I wake up in a cold sweat for never being wrong.

1.5. Finding WMDs [via Center for American Progress, CAP]

FLIP 5/29/03 - [Bush]: "We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories...for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."IN SHORT:Yay! We found the weapons of mass destruction
.
FLOP 2/7/04 - [Bush]: "David Kay has found the capacity to produce weapons. And when David Kay goes in and says we haven't found stockpiles yet, and there's theories as to where the weapons went. They could have been destroyed during the war. Saddam and his henchmen could have destroyed them as we entered into Iraq. They could be hidden. They could have been transported to another country, and we'll find out." IN SHORT:Er, I guess we have NOT found the weapons of mass destruction.

I know that my predictions are very good; now if I can prepare my soul to be very good, then I will really be happy.

Exclusive: Bush Wanted To Invade Iraq If Elected in 2000

Two years before 9/11, candidate Bush was already talking privately about attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer

Houston: Two years before the September 11 attacks, presidential candidate George W. Bush was already talking privately about the political benefits of attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer, who held many conversations with then-Texas Governor Bush in preparation for a planned autobiography.

"He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999," said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. "It was on his mind. He said to me: ‘One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.’ And he said, ‘My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.’ He said, ‘If I have a chance to invade….if I had that much capital, I’m not going to waste it. I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I’m going to have a successful presidency."

Herskowitz said that Bush expressed frustration at a lifetime as an underachiever in the shadow of an accomplished father. In aggressive military action, he saw the opportunity to emerge from his father’s shadow. The moment, Herskowitz said, came in the wake of the September 11 attacks. "Suddenly, he’s at 91 percent in the polls, and he’d barely crawled out of the bunker."

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

The accidental liar? Sure we all believe that!(NOT)

capt

Rewriting History

In his debate with John Edwards, Dick Cheney had a brand-new version of the events that led to war

Oct. 6 - With virtually all of the administration’≥ original case for war in Iraq in tatters, Vice President Dick Cheney provided shifting and sometimes misleading arguments in last night’≥ debate with John Edwards about Saddam Hussein’≥ ties to terrorists and his access to weapons of mass destruction.

Cheney, responding to moderator Gwen Ifill’≥ first question, said that "concern" about Iraq before the war had "specifically focused" on the fact that Saddam’≥ regime had been listed for years by the U.S. government as a "state sponsor of terror," that Palestinian terrorist Abu Nidal operated out of Baghdad, that Saddam paid $25,000 to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers and that he had an "established relationship" with Al Qaeda.

But except for the allegation about Iraqi ties to Al Qaeda—° claim that is now more in question than ever—¥he other examples cited by Cheney in Tuesday night’≥ debate never have been previously emphasized by Bush administration officials, and for good reasons.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

A little trip down memory lane before it is swallowed whole by a sink hole. (or is that stink hole)

capt

On Hardball tonight Barney Franks called what took place before, during and after the flooding in New Orleans "Ethnic Cleansing by Inaction". That the lack of funding for lower income housing will leave New Orleans " whiter and richer." He was on a roll.

He indicated that Rove sees the circmustance in New Orleans as an opportunity to flip Lousianna to the Republicans.( if the african american population does not make it back) Doesn't this sound like Rove ( just what is his position with the reconstruction( or lack of) in New Orleans?

Now this one gets to me, on MSNBC and on Lou Dobbs the new call to the american taxpayer is to donate to the INTREPID FALLEN HEROES FUND.
While I completely support soldiers receiving every means to support themselves, medical coverage, college education and any type of rehabilitation (both mental and physical that they need.

It is so absurd to me that after the Bush administration demanded that the public SUPPORT THE WAR..SUPPORT THE TROOPS (even though they were cutting funding and services for soldiers). Now the private sector is asking the american taxpayer that have given their family members, their money and their souls, they are now asking for more money for a new facility for the soldiers that have lost limbs..

THE FUCKING BUSH ADMINISTRATION SHOULD BE PAYING FOR THE ARMS, LEGS, AND BODY PARTS OF THESE SOLDIERS...CHENEY, BUSH , RUMSFELD , WOLFOWITZ, AND THE REST OF THE NEO-NAZI CONS SHOULD PAY FOR THESE SOLDIERS MASSIVE LOSSES.

THESE FUCKS SHOULD HAVE TO SPEND YEARS IN THESE REHABILITATION CENTERS AS ORDERLIES.

YES THIS IS IT ...INSTEAD OF THROWING THEM IN JAIL MAKE THEM DO COMMUNITY SERVICE IN THIS NEW REHABILITATION CENTER OR WALTER REED HOSPITAL. SO THAT THEY CAN SEE THE RESULTS OF THEIR DECISIONS.

DAMN I HOPE THERE IS A HELL..FOR THEM.

Olberman reported that Bush got the name wrong of the building in L.A. that was not bombed. He also announced that the mayor of L.a. had no idea that the President was going to say this on the news.

I bet that Mayor was getting some phone calls today.

Democracy Now Headlines

Less Than Half of Reviewed Gitmo Detainees Accused of Violence
The news comes as a new study based entirely on Pentagon data shows that of 500 Guantanamo detainees whose cases were reviewed, fewer than half of them have been accused of committing violent acts against the United States or its allies. The study, carried out by lawyers for two detainees, found that the government has identified only 8% of the detainees as al Qaeda fighters. Of the rest, the study found that 40% have no connection with al Qaeda at all and 18% are have no affiliation with either al Qaeda or the Taliban. Meanwhile, 60% of the 500 detainees have been detained "merely because they are 'associated with' a group or groups the US government asserts are terrorist organizations."
--------------------
Now, read my next post.

Report: Hunger-Striking Gitmo Detainees Strapped Down, Forced-Fed
The New York Times is reporting authorities at the US military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba have resorted to a series of tough measures to force-feed hunger-striking detainees. Dozens of detainees have held the fasts to protest their prison conditions. Prison guards have strapped detainees into "restraint chairs" for hours and force-fed them with tubes down their throat. The Times says over two dozen detainees quit their hunger strikes after "having their feeding tubes inserted and removed so violently that some bled or fainted." Thomas Wilner, a lawyer for several detainees said: "It is clear that the government has ended the hunger strike through the use of force and through the most brutal and inhumane types of treatment."
-------------------
Somewhere along the line this system got really, really screwed up. I would say it has a lot to do with the leadership.

#74 Boyd (previous thread)..I am truely sorry for your loss. Keep her memory alive.... Hold these Liars accountable.

#36 James Ha. I have heard Buchanan say it out loud. He completely disagreed with the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq. Go read some of his articles at the AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE AND ANTIWAR.COM.

SALADIN..CHENEY IS GOING,,,GOING,,,G_ _E

Hajji,

Thought you would like this link. It is from the Stars & Stripes Newspaper. A map of Iraq with locations of FOB's & camps.

Stars & Stripes

Glad to hear Grant is doing well.

great article over at Findlaw/John Dean on "V.P. Cheney fight for inherent Presidential Power"

Cheney 'Authorized' Libby to Leak Classified Information

Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, testified to a federal grand jury that he had been "authorized" by Cheney and other White House "superiors" in the summer of 2003 to disclose classified information to journalists to defend the Bush administration's use of prewar intelligence in making the case to go to war with Iraq, according to attorneys familiar with the matter, and to court records.

Libby specifically claimed that in one instance he had been authorized to divulge portions of a then-still highly classified National Intelligence Estimate regarding Saddam Hussein's purported efforts to develop nuclear weapons, according to correspondence recently filed in federal court by special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald.

Beyond what was stated in the court paper, say people with firsthand knowledge of the matter, Libby also indicated what he will offer as a broad defense during his upcoming criminal trial: that Vice President Cheney and other senior Bush administration officials had earlier encouraged and authorized him to share classified information with journalists to build public support for going to war. Later, after the war began in 2003, Cheney authorized Libby to release additional classified information, including details of the NIE, to defend the administration's use of prewar intelligence in making the case for war.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Oh my, time for a new veep, eh?

Exposing a covert agent working on WMD proliferation during a time of war[sic] - if that is not a high crime nothing is.

Maybe we start by impreaching the VP, an so on.

capt

I guess my own stating-the-obvious humor didn't come through on that one. Sorry. guys.

Who needs soap operas. Life here IS a soap opera. Just keeping up with all the plots and twists and turns of government and Big Business since 2000 has got me hooked. Can't wait to tune into the next day's episode. I compare all the facets of the life of this country to a soap opera because it is and we're as helpless to change a thing just like we can't control the soap opera plot.

What diverse plots did I see latetly:

1. Bush put something in the budget that will tamper with SS. He's going to do what he wants even though everyone else has said no. (More King George, the powerful)

2. Heard the government was going to "permit" health care providers to no have to treat people who can't pay the deductible. (hey, it would make a great plot on TV, but real people are involved here)

3. The Bush gang saved Los Angelus from a shoe bomber in 2002. (hmmm.....)

4. Medicaid and Medicare are being cut. (there's more poor & old people every day)

5. Update: White House lists 10 foiled attacks

6. Big Business is talking about charging for e-mail. (kiss my ASS!)

7. Husband heard that "they" want to cut out the SS burial benefit, which is a couple hundred dollars, and they want to cut out the benefit of a couple hundred that your young kid's get if you die. (evil bastards!)

8. Then there's all this crap about Iran. Saber's rattling. (so sick of that shit)

Bush Plan Would Trim Survivor Benefits

WASHINGTON - President Bush's budget calls for elimination of a $255 lump-sum death payment that has been part of Social Security for more than 50 years and urges Congress to cut off monthly survivor benefits to 16- and 17-year-old high school dropouts.

If approved, the two proposals would save a combined $3.4 billion over the next decade, according to administration estimates.

Any attempt to reduce Social Security benefits — no matter how small — could face intense opposition in Congress in an election year.

"There they go again," Sen. Chuck Schumer, the New York Democrat who chairs his party's campaign committee, said Tuesday of the administration. "They can't resist trying to cut Social Security and to cut a survivor's, a widow or widower's benefits; it just shows how warped the priorities are in this budget."

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

And there you go!

capt

Democrats worst nightmare,

Dick Cheney resigns prior to 2006 elections.
Condaliza Rice is named as Vice-President.
Condaliza decides to challenge for the 2008
Republican nomination for President.
Condaliza wins, chooses Alberto Gonzales as running mate.

Neither Cheney or Bush are running in 2008. Be
careful of what you wish for.

Thanks, Capt. I'm going to print the article out for Bob.

Learn to spell Condi's name.

You are insulting minorities if you think that having Ms. Con-di and Mr. Alberto on the Republican ticket would guarantee a successful campaign.

They have more sense than to fall for THAT.

Here's a good Bill O'Reilly stupid quote. Even he was so embarrassed he wanted to crawl into a hole.

O'Reilly wants Sharpton in chains...

By the time the next Presidental Election hits no one in this administration will be asked to be on the ticket. They are looking uglier to the American people with every passing day.
Alan, what do the polls say?

Abramoff says Bush met, even joked, with him
Statement follows White House claim that president does not know lobbyist
__________________

WASHINGTON - Jack Abramoff said in correspondence made public Thursday that President Bush met him “almost a dozen” times, disputing White House claims Bush did not know the former lobbyist at the center of a corruption scandal.

“The guy saw me in almost a dozen settings, and joked with me about a bunch of things, including details of my kids. Perhaps he has forgotten everything, who knows,” Abramoff wrote in an e-mail to Kim Eisler, national editor for the Washingtonian magazine.
__________________

"...I did NOT have, uhm, meetings with that man...uhm Jackoff..."

Who'd believe a confessed felon, anyway?

-T

Some perceptive reporters seem to have noticed that the cons plan to try to distract from their wake of death, destruction, and destitution by casting the Dems as "angry liberals" this election year.

Let them try. The Dems need only utter 3 words to immediately remind people what pack of phonies and hypocrites the cons are: Go Find Yourself.

And Cheney spewed his obscenity at a U.S. Senator, right there on the Senate floor, which makes jr.'s SOTU plea for civility seem more than a little ridiculous.

Anyone ever hear of a Democrat using obscenities on the Senate floor? So you tell me which party has the anger management problem.

J.C. Watts Sr. -- the father of the former (used up) congressman -- is quoted as saying that a black man voting for a Republican "is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders." Or, as Colin Powell more gently put it on Fox News, the GOP is "certainly not seen as the black guy's party."

Thanx for the map, TRH,

It might be a little outdated. The Tal Afar offensive was last July, I think...

Y'know, for a place where we aren't planning any permanent bases...There sure seems to be a lot of "There" there!

-T

Hajji said, "Who'd believe a confessed felon, anyway?"

Hey, they believe them when they rat out their cell mates.

Hey, Hajji. No fireplace here, but I have a bonfire pit 50 feet out from the house. Our house faces south. Always wanted to put solar panels on the roof, but.....$$$$$

Carol,

An old friend I visited in LA did a TV story on Solar, got a free rooftop FULL of panels and passive pool heater. I guess being in the media has it advantages. In the summer, the 'Lectric company pays HIM!

He says it about evens out in the winter, but THAT's in LA, where the sun ALWAYS shines...unless you're traveling with my sister, who seems to be followed by rainclouds!

-T

Oh, and we have several places for outdoor fires, here, depending on the season and situation...

My favorite is out at the NorthWesternmost point of the hill...looking up at Table Rock, and the rest of the NC/SC border.

-T

Hajji,
My sister has the same mysterious raincloud issue. She's had planes struck by lightening. She's had tornadoes go through the airport in O'Hare and in Los Angelus. She moved temporarily to Washington DC and they had so much snow it was collapsing the roofs of buildings. Amazing.
She went on a road trip with a friend from college. He was the type of guy who had incredible luck. It was spooky. She said they were driving down a road in Montana and there were rain clouds on her side of the road and sunshine on his side.

I guess it wouldn't pay because in Michigan in the winter you don't get much sun. Especially THIS winter. There's hardly ever been a sunny day. I think in January we had something like 14 minutes of sun.

Besides Grant being "there" that is the only other reason I "figgured" you would be interested in that "there" map.

Caroline,

Is that any different than a Clinton/Richardson ticket in 2008? I didn't say it would succeed.
The only reason Clinton wasn't convicted of his impeachment charge was specifically because the Repubs knew that would give Bore a two year head start toward 2000.

Conda/Condo/Condi, leeza, leza, liza, I have seen it spelled many different ways. Get off your high horse and realize what you are dreaming of will never happen.

Predictions

Dear Cornposters:

When will start to believe? Here are more predictions. There will be more Nazis elected in 2006 to House and Senate seats through Nazi American rigged elections. There will be no 2008 presidential elections. We are witnessing the Nazi American way and Nazi America's manifest destiny. The enslavement of Nazi Americans takes hold after the 2006 elections. The bushians with their bushianity religion are in total control of Nazi America. Hatred, murders, torture, war crimes, corruption, greed, decadence, and lies prevail across all of Nazi America and these evils will spread all over our planet through wars and depleted uranium.

Sincerely,

Gerald

I would have loved to attended that one.

Anyone read this yet?

By Murray Waas, National Journal

Cheney 'Authorized' Libby to Leak Classified Information

http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2006/0209nj1.htm

May the United States of America rest in peace!!!!!

Stunning news coming out of Madrid this day, where Russia's president Putin announces, to the dismay of the west, that he will receive HAMAS leader in Moscow for a submit, stating that a duly elected political parties deserve recognition.

In Letter to President Bush, 1/28/06, which was CC to President Putin, I stated:

"Derrick Michael Reid" Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Recognize the STATE of Palestine NOW!!
To: "GOP USA" , "President George W. Bush"
CC: "Bill GATA Murphy" , "Bill OReilly" , "Jim Pinkerton" , "Editor Orange County Register" , "Dana Rohrabacher 46th US" , "Editor New York Times" , "London Times" , "Fred Barnes" , "PM Tony Blair" , "John Campbell 48th US" , "Ann Coulter" , "Darrell Issa 49th CAL" , "Charles Krauthammer" , "Rush Limbaugh"

President Bush, GOP, 1/28/06
Recognize Palestine Now!
The victory of Hamas, in my view, is actually a very good thing. If Hamas remains out of power, Hamas will only continue their terror. But now there is a chance for a real break from the mud march along the misleading road map. Militant Islam in Palestine will have to make some tuff choices, and in the end, I think, Hamas and the Palestinians will decide prosperity is better than bombs, and the democratic forces will bring that militant wing into civility. With ruling responsibility for their population, Hamas will understand that democracy and freedom carries with it responsibility, and will opt for better lives, and increased interconnectiveness with the rest of the world in the never ending path towards global confluence. The global confluence moves in an irresistible force, and this move will be seen in Palestine at this day, and is a very good thing.
What you need to do is civilize Hamas, and pressing, but not for disarmament of Hamas, as that would demean them and their democracy victory in their eyes, but rather, their integration into the Palestine security forces. In this way, you give Hamas pride and encourage integration into a single political system. Sure, I know they are evil at times, but it is a great victory to turn an enemy into a friend, without demeaning them. Remember these words, "with malice toward none", during reconciliation. I dont really care if Hamas feels that it was their terrorism that led to the Gaza withdrawal, and if Hamas wants to believe that, who really cares, that is old news. Where do we go from here is the question. There is a tremendous opportunity knocking right at your feet. Dont loose this chance with hostile threats, but rather embrace Hamas with words of cooperation to promote peace. We know they are ruthless killers, everyone does, but so were the Texas rebels in the Wilderness 5/4/1861, get it? As Bobby Lee said, Texans always move them, and there is Southern Pride in a hard fought war. Give to Hamas whatever it takes, to get them to move toward civility.
You are correct, no money support and aid should be given to Palestine, as long as ruling Hamas insist on Israel's destruction. The world must be united on this. But use the money this way, in that, the USA will support peace, including Hamas' efforts to promote peace. You have a golden opportunity here, to move Hamas from a war terror posture into the ranks of civilized cooperation, if played correctly. Use the carrot and stick, and shrewd diplomacy, and get Hamas into mainstream civility. Encourage integration of the militia into government security forces, and get Hamas leadership to change its stance, one little step at time, and push for peace and prosperity. These are the words you should always use. Get off the terrorist organization rant, and tell Israel to reduce the hostile rhetoric, but rather, use only positive terms, in your public discussion. This is an opportunity, and can be of great benefit, if you play it well.
Here is how you do it. First, I would like to remind of Lincoln's problem with cabinet member Chase and Stewart in January 1863, when they were hostile toward each other. The hostile one, Chase would belittle the cabinet behind everyone's back, but when put in front of Lincoln's cabinet for all to hear, well, he started doing some back stepping, and Lincoln, the political master, solve a political problem, much worst that the losses on the battle field. You should learn from his example. I believe you are the BOLD leader of the free world, and will take bold action when persuaded. And so, here, you have the ultimate objective of defeating militant Islam, of which Hamas is a tiny but significant part. You must come out and say that the USA strongly supports peace and democracy, and will support any democratically elected Palestinian political leader that wants to promote peace. Say to Hamas that the USA will support the Hamas government if it supports peace and democracy. Understand that Palestine needs at least two strong political parties to engage in true debate, and the stage is set with opposing Fatah and Hamas political parties, as they are the only game in town, and that is just great. Next, we only need to nudge Hamas into the civilized camp, and with the cease fire over the last two years, that is really not much of a move, and you should use the PEACE and AID rhetoric to do this. You have control over the purse strings, and the rhetoric, used them wisely.
Now, for the BOLD move. President Bush, I believe in you, and will ask you now, are you really the bold leader of the free world? I would suggest you forthwith, preempt the road map to peace, or should I say leap over it. Israel is withdrawing behinds its walls. That fits the plan. With Israel having defensible borders, there is no threat for a massive Palestinian invasion into Israel proper. Israel would win any artillery duel. As such, why wait ten more years more to accomplish your objective. When a Hamas leader is recognized in Palestine, you should then recognize THE STATE OF PALISTINE, with its capital in Ramalla, and get Mr. Bolton in the UN to invite the Hamas leader to the UN to address the UN general assembly as a welcomed recognized state. Now, look at what might happen, as with the Iranian President. If the Hamas leader goes on a terrorist rant, you simply are proved again to be correct, in no uncertain terms, for the whole civilized world to see the potential dangers of militant-islam, and that would build your necessary support in the confrontation with Iran. You would then remove all economic support for the State of Palestine, impose diplomatic sanctions, and let Fatah and Hamas stew in civil confrontations until the Palestinians themselves resolve the issue.
Israel's Sharon masterfully and effectively out maneuvered the Palestinians by the withdrawal and building a wall, forcing the Palestinians to live with themselves, and Sharon should be remember for this bold move. If Hamas leader goes on a reconciliation plead before the UN, well then, you could continue economic support and recognition and bring Palestine into the fold of civilized nations. By recognition, you will accelerate the integration of the Hamas militia into national security forces and bring them to negotiations rather than terror as a recognized state. This can be a great win and no loss political victory for you, if you are the bold leader I believe you to be. President Bush, if you are bold, if this truly is democracy century, if you can see the strength and wisdom of democracy as the means to resolve conflicts within a people that will eventually reject guns in favor of diplomacy, then you should move now and recognize Palestine and put them on a pedestal at the UN for all to see and scrutinize. Doing this, I am sure it will bring them into civility, without the need for marching down an endless muddy road with a soiled map. President Bush, you have but a couple of years left to make your mark in history. The world needs your bold leadership now more than ever. I notice you pathetically stammer in front of whole world, taken back by this victory, and it seems you are not well served by middle east analysts. This reminds so much of how the US intelligence completely misjudge how easily and quickly the soviet empire fell, yet I predicted it, as night followed day, two years in advance. I can see this failure of lack of creative thinking happening all over again with the USA government. Please sir, take advantage of this opportunity, and make the bold move, and do it now.
Thank You for Serving.
God Bless
Derrick Michael Reid
=========================================
Excuse me for being a dreamer, but it seems that Putin likes my objective views, especially were he can make political points, in the Islamic world, seeking to regain lost political prestige. This is another apparent COINCIDENTAL reaction to my suggestions.

The continuing soap opera: 1. "Patriot Act Compromise Clears Way for Senate Vote." (big deal, and reading about it makes you just shake your head) 2. Libby said he was "authorized" to devulge classified info to reporters and that was how Valerie Plame's name was divulged. (gee, like this info will mean anything....nothing will happen to Scooter, or rather nothing will happnen to the Bushies) 3. Derrick Michael Reid is still around Tune in tomorrow.

Gerald, here is my prediction. A great power, after much enmity and struggle, will declare peace and security, then all hell will break loose, because you can't trust a politican as far as you can throw them. We are in a transition that can't be avoided. It's called evolution, however painful. We will either survive, or not. If the earth is lucky, we will go the way of the Dodo.

Are the following assertions made by POTUS false?

Example 1: "Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors."

Example 2: "Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas, or biological weapons."

Example 3: "And so we had to act and act now. Let me explain why. First, without a strong inspection system, Iraq would be free to retain and begin to rebuild its chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons programs in months, not years."

Hastert, Frist said to rig bill for drug firms
Frist denies protection was added in secret

WASHINGTON — Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and House Speaker Dennis Hastert engineered a backroom legislative maneuver to protect pharmaceutical companies from lawsuits, say witnesses to the pre-Christmas power play.

The language was tucked into a Defense Department appropriations bill at the last minute without the approval of members of a House-Senate conference committee, say several witnesses, including a top Republican staff member.
====================
caught in more strong-arm/secret tactics and lied their azz off when confronted with it

*typical stinkin' repug corruption

Frist has so much rotten/smelling baggage, how do they still talk about him running for president?!!

If only the masses could SEE the manipulation.

Every side of a struggle is capable of producing media events to advance their causes. I think it finally behooves us to consider just what , exactly is worth getting all worked up about.

For me, this is easy......it is the grab for and the consolidation of POWER by this ADMINISTRATION.

They would errode our individual rights, and rejoice in the ability to have done so.....with their ringer jurists looking on.

They own the Supreme Court, and without any doubt they own the Attourney General.

Are we ready to vote YET???????????

a. Does the average American feel safer because we participate in torture?

b. Does any American feel our borders are well protected?

c. Our ports?

Wake up AMERICA, this idiot isn't making you safer, he is stealing your liberty with every stroke of his mighty pen.

He is also bankrupting the country. And be warned, he is itching to go for Iran.

Ever notice the lack of Bushian saber rattling with Nations that Have nukes?

Shurb boy won't touch Korea with Long Tongs.......but he feels absolutely free in regularly threatening Iran.....Interesting, from a purely human rights perspective.

Seems to me, Shrub is your average playground bully.

Pay back is often a real bitch.

every little bit helps...

Official Resigns Public TV Post

WASHINGTON, Feb. 9 — The top television executive at the Corporation for Public Broadcasting announced on Thursday that he would be stepping down. This is the latest in a string of departures of officials and consultants who played central roles in an effort by conservatives to bring what they viewed as more balance to public television and radio.

Feinstein and Durbin are caving, with only minor "cosmetic" changes.

Key Democratic and G.O.P. Senators Are in Accord on Extending Patriot Act

WASHINGTON, Feb. 9 — Four recalcitrant Senate Republicans said Thursday that they had reached agreement with the White House on the broad antiterrorism law known as the USA Patriot Act, and two leading Democrats said they would now support the bill. The moves possibly clear the way for passage of the legislation, which has been bottled up in a dispute over civil liberties.

(snip)

Critics said the changes were cosmetic.

"A few insignificant changes just doesn't cut it," Senator Russell D. Feingold, Democrat of Wisconsin, said in a statement. "I cannot support this deal, and I will do everything I can to stop it."

Well, they obviously need this guy's testimony during Phase 2.

Ex-CIA Official Faults Use of Data on Iraq
Intelligence 'Misused' to Justify War, He Says

By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, February 10, 2006; Page A01

The former CIA official who coordinated U.S. intelligence on the Middle East until last year has accused the Bush administration of "cherry-picking" intelligence on Iraq to justify a decision it had already reached to go to war, and of ignoring warnings that the country could easily fall into violence and chaos after an invasion to overthrow Saddam Hussein.

Paul R. Pillar, who was the national intelligence officer for the Near East and South Asia from 2000 to 2005, acknowledges the U.S. intelligence agencies' mistakes in concluding that Hussein's government possessed weapons of mass destruction. But he said those misjudgments did not drive the administration's decision to invade.

"It has become clear that official intelligence was not relied on in making even the most significant national security decisions, that intelligence was misused publicly to justify decisions already made, that damaging ill will developed between [Bush] policymakers and intelligence officers, and that the intelligence community's own work was politicized," Pillar wrote.

Pillar's critique is one of the most severe indictments of White House actions by a former Bush official since Richard C. Clarke, a former National Security Council staff member, went public with his criticism of the administration's handling of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and its failure to deal with the terrorist threat beforehand.

It is also the first time that such a senior intelligence officer has so directly and publicly condemned the administration's handling of intelligence.

(snip)

Pillar wrote that the prewar intelligence asserted Hussein's "weapons capacities," but he said the "broad view" within the United States and overseas "was that Saddam was being kept 'in his box' " by U.N. sanctions, and that the best way to deal with him was through "an aggressive inspections program to supplement sanctions already in place."

"If the entire body of official intelligence analysis on Iraq had a policy implication," Pillar wrote, "it was to avoid war -- or, if war was going to be launched, to prepare for a messy aftermath."

The Adulation of Ignorance

The explosive situation in the Middle East needs to be defused, not aggravated. The United States gains nothing by confirming its image as the hegemonic Great Satan.

Nothing is gained by the deaths and maiming of thousands and tens of thousands more people whose lives are thrown away to the purposes of blind propaganda.

Nothing is gained by the US wasting more hundreds of billions dollars that are desperately needed for important and legitimate purposes.

Nothing is gained by the US pressuring with threats and bribes other countries to line up with what they know to be a wrong and dangerous policy.

Nothing is gained by endangering oil flows and a western transportation system dependent on the internal combustion engine.

Bush’≥ approach is insane. It serves no legitimate purpose. There is no reason for it.

Why is it happening?

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

No legitimate purpose, no reason for it. Why is it happening? I think as long as Bush is considered a politician and Bolton is considered a diplomat what do you expect?

capt

It's Friday and alot happened yesterday.News came out that Libby testified to a grand jury in charges filed last month by Fitzgerald that he was ordered by his superiors to leak Valerie Plame's identity. Also yesterday chimpy mcflightsuit revealed the thwarted plan to run an airliner into the LA Liberty Tower (pronounced library). Shrubs timing was obvious to grandstand or at least mitigate damage by the Libby news. Ah how transparent its so refreshing, it stinks.

..then it was logical to assume Saddam still had WMDs.

It was logical to so assume unless military action and international sanctions had been directed at these WMD programs. This woman was on the law faculty at Yale?

Publisher’s Note: The greatest sleazeballs of the 21st century

Dick Cheney is trying to push through the Senate a bill that would create a national trust fund for victims of asbestos poisoning. Sounds lovely, doesn’t it? It does until you realize he’s doing it to cover his and Bush’s butts.

A little background:

While he was CEO of Halliburton in 1998 he negotiated the purchase of Dresser Industries for $7.7 billion. The Bush family has owned and controlled Dresser since the 1920s. There’s no evidence of a lot of cash turning over, so it could be assumed that the Bush family got stock in place of cash for the sale. So, it looks like the mouse ate the cat. It looks like Dresser ended up controlling Halliburton.

Cheney said at the time, the merger was a "win-win" situation. The stock market thought otherwise. Halliburton lost more than a third of its value on news of the deal. Some of the liabilities that Dresser brought to the table were 200,000 lawsuits for damages as a result of asbestos poisoning. Halliburton now estimates its asbestos liability at $2.2 billion with about $1.6 of that covered by insurance. Wall Street analysts think it’s much higher, and the stock has taken a hit of about $4.5 billion directly related to the asbestos problems.

The Hatch bill in the Senate would void many of the legal settlements and reduce Halliburton’s overall liability from $4 billion down to $450 million.

It’s kind of heartwarming to know that even though Bush and Cheney are busy with a lot of other important matters they can still take the time to screw widows and orphans to put money in their own pockets.

*****end of clip*****

There is an ad that is running here in Albuquerque where they talk about the asbestos issue as if it is about veterans. It says the "asbestos victims deserve to be compensated" and that the "fund" will be created without any government money.

One more thing that chaps my leathery hide.

capt

Ex-CIA Official Faults Use of Data on Iraq
Intelligence 'Misused' to Justify War, He Says

By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, February 10, 2006; A01

The former CIA official who coordinated U.S. intelligence on the Middle East until last year has accused the Bush administration of "cherry-picking" intelligence on Iraq to justify a decision it had already reached to go to war, and of ignoring warnings that the country could easily fall into violence and chaos after an invasion to overthrow Saddam Hussein.

Paul R. Pillar, who was the national intelligence officer for the Near East and South Asia from 2000 to 2005, acknowledges the U.S. intelligence agencies' mistakes in concluding that Hussein's government possessed weapons of mass destruction. But he said those misjudgments did not drive the administration's decision to invade.

"Official intelligence on Iraqi weapons programs was flawed, but even with its flaws, it was not what led to the war," Pillar wrote in the upcoming issue of the journal Foreign Affairs. Instead, he asserted, the administration "went to war without requesting -- and evidently without being influenced by -- any strategic-level intelligence assessments on any aspect of Iraq."

"It has become clear that official intelligence was not relied on in making even the most significant national security decisions, that intelligence was misused publicly to justify decisions already made, that damaging ill will developed between [Bush] policymakers and intelligence officers, and that the intelligence community's own work was politicized," Pillar wrote.

Pillar's critique is one of the most severe indictments of White House actions by a former Bush official since Richard C. Clarke, a former National Security Council staff member, went public with his criticism of the administration's handling of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and its failure to deal with the terrorist threat beforehand.

It is also the first time that such a senior intelligence officer has so directly and publicly condemned the administration's handling of intelligence.

Pillar, retired after 28 years at the CIA, was an influential behind-the-scenes player and was considered the agency's leading counterterrorism analyst. By the end of his career, he was responsible for coordinating assessments on Iraq from all 15 agencies in the intelligence community. He is now a professor in security studies at Georgetown University.

White House officials did not respond to a request to comment for this article. They have vehemently denied accusations that the administration manipulated intelligence to generate public support for the war.

"Our statements about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein were based on the aggregation of intelligence from a number of sources and represented the collective view of the intelligence community," national security adviser Stephen J. Hadley said in a White House briefing in November. "Those judgments were shared by Republicans and Democrats alike."

Republicans and Democrats in Congress continue to argue over whether, or how, to investigate accusations the administration manipulated prewar intelligence.

Yesterday, the Senate Republican Policy Committee issued a statement to counter what it described as "the continuing Iraq pre-war intelligence myths," including charges that Bush " 'misused' intelligence to justify the war." Writing that it was perfectly reasonable for the president to rely on the intelligence he was given, the paper concluded, "it is actually the critics who are misleading the American people."

In his article, Pillar said he believes that the "politicization" of intelligence on Iraq occurred "subtly" and in many forms, but almost never resulted from a policymaker directly asking an analyst to reshape his or her results. "Such attempts are rare," he writes, "and when they do occur . . . are almost always unsuccessful."

Instead, he describes a process in which the White House helped frame intelligence results by repeatedly posing questions aimed at bolstering its arguments about Iraq.

The Bush administration, Pillar wrote, "repeatedly called on the intelligence community to uncover more material that would contribute to the case for war," including information on the "supposed connection" between Hussein and al Qaeda, which analysts had discounted. "Feeding the administration's voracious appetite for material on the Saddam-al Qaeda link consumed an enormous amount of time and attention."

The result of the requests, and public statements by the president, Vice President Cheney and others, led analysts and managers to conclude the United States was heading for war well before the March 2003 invasion, Pillar asserted.

They thus knew, he wrote, that senior policymakers "would frown on or ignore analysis that called into question a decision to go to war and welcome analysis that supported such a decision. . . . [They] felt a strong wind consistently blowing in one direction. The desire to bend with such a wind is natural and strong, even if unconscious."

Pillar wrote that the prewar intelligence asserted Hussein's "weapons capacities," but he said the "broad view" within the United States and overseas "was that Saddam was being kept 'in his box' " by U.N. sanctions, and that the best way to deal with him was through "an aggressive inspections program to supplement sanctions already in place."

"If the entire body of official intelligence analysis on Iraq had a policy implication," Pillar wrote, "it was to avoid war -- or, if war was going to be launched, to prepare for a messy aftermath."

Pillar describes for the first time that the intelligence community did assessments before the invasion that, he wrote, indicated a postwar Iraq "would not provide fertile ground for democracy" and would need "a Marshall Plan-type effort" to restore its economy despite its oil revenue. It also foresaw Sunnis and Shiites fighting for power.

Pillar wrote that the intelligence community "anticipated that a foreign occupying force would itself be the target of resentment and attacks -- including guerrilla warfare -- unless it established security and put Iraq on the road to prosperity in the first few weeks or months after the fall of Saddam."

In an interview, Pillar said the prewar assessments "were not crystal-balling, but in them we were laying out the challenges that would face us depending on decisions that were made."

Pillar wrote that the first request he received from a Bush policymaker for an assessment of post-invasion Iraq was "not until a year into the war."

That assessment, completed in August 2004, warned that the insurgency in Iraq could evolve into a guerrilla war or civil war. It was leaked to the media in September in the midst of the presidential campaign, and Bush, who had told voters that the mission in Iraq was going well, described the assessment to reporters as "just guessing."

Shortly thereafter, Pillar was identified in a column by Robert D. Novak as having prepared the assessment and having given a speech critical of Bush's Iraq policy at a private dinner in California. The column fed the White House's view that the CIA was in effect working against the Bush administration, and that Pillar was part of that. A columnist in the Washington Times in October 2004 called him "a longstanding intellectual opponent of the policy options chosen by President Bush to fight terrorism."

Leaked information "encouraged some administration supporters to charge intelligence officers (including me) with trying to sabotage the president's policies," Pillar wrote. One effect of that, he said, was to limit challenges to consensus views on matters such as the Iraqi weapons program.

When asked why he did not quit given his concerns, Pillar said in the interview that he was doing "other worthwhile work in the nation's interest" and never thought of resigning over the issue.

Pillar suggests that the CIA and other intelligence agencies, now under Director of National Intelligence John D. Negroponte, remain within the executive branch but "be given greater independence."

The model he cites is the Federal Reserve, overseen by governors who serve fixed terms. That, he said, would reduce "both the politicization of the intelligence community's own work and the public misuse of intelligence by policymakers."

© 2006 The Washington Post Company

OOPS SORRY ALAN YOU ALL READY POSTED THIS...

Justin Raimando, Julian Borger...so many journalist were hitting the nail on the head long before the pre-emptive invasion...

TIM TIM TIM...are you going to keep your head in the sand?...

Before the pre-emptive invasion all you had to be was a "soccer mom" listening to BBc and NPR daily. Before the war you could hear .... Madeline Albright,,"..."there are no WMD's" ... Tim the war in Iraq was a war of choice, and deep down you know it. Posted by: kathleen at February 9, 2006 06:43 PM >>Albright 'Surprised' at Failure To Find WMD (She believes Iraq had a WMD program) NY Sun ^ | 9/22/03 The Bush administration got a boost from an unexpected quarter yesterday when President Clinton's secretary of state, Madeleine Albright, said she was surprised that weapons of mass destruction had not been discovered in Iraq. Mrs. Albright, who would have been privy to intelligence similar to that which President Bush used in making the decision to invade Iraq, appeared on NBC's Meet the Press program yesterday. She was asked whether she was surprised American troops had not found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I am surprised, she said...>>

#65 TRH...There is no possible way that Ms.Condi Rice could win, SHE HAS A MUSHROOM CLOUD HANGING OVER HER HEAD. That statement that image the results of her LIES will bury her.

#92 Alan..I so wish Cindy Sheehan would run against Feinstein. Her husbands/her profits from this war are a scandal and very little is being written about this.

She holds a seat on the Phase 2 SSCI (Senate Select Committee on Intelligence). I really wonder what role she may be playing in blocking this investigation from moving forward in some subtle way?

Senator Feingold is a treasure.

#85 Derrick Michael Reid...It is amazing how people seem to conveniently forget that most leaders of the Israeli government came out of what many consider terroist organizations. Why not the Palestinians..Hamas

#100 Patrick
Bridges, Bombs, or Bluster?
Madeleine K. Albright

Since the attacks of September 11, 2001, the Bush administration has pressured every country in the world to make a simple choice: Are you with the United States or with the terrorists? But by casting the choice so starkly--and expanding the war on terror to include its campaign in Iraq--Washington has alienated many natural and potential allies and made the fight against al Qaeda more difficult. It didn't have to be this way. The White House has acted as if it doesn't care what others think, and the country is paying the price for its mistake.
Read

#100 Patrick.................

MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, I think we would all agree that it is a threat within the region, which is one reason that the sanctions regime that was put in after the war has been held fairly tightly and something that we supported all along.

I think that Dr. Kissinger answered very well. It is not a direct threat to the United States, which is why, I think, we need to have a discussion about whether we are - will be or would be better off with an attack or a preemptive attack on Iraq from where we are now, where, in fact, I believe that Iraq and Saddam Hussein are contained pretty well within this sanctions box.

#100 Patrick ...I did not link Madeline Albright directly with "there are no WMD'S". I heard her warn on many occasions that the invasion would be a mistake.

You can attempt to "spin" all of the warnings
that many experts shared prior to the invasion all you want. Their voices, their wisdom and experience were completely ignored by the Bush administration.

The endless repetition of the LIES BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION ABOUT WMD'S drowned all of them out.

Patrick keep "spinning" you are just going to make yourself dizzy living in the state of denial.

Plugging Leaks

More details emerge on the Plame investigation, as Karl Rove's testimony is revealed for the first time

President Bush's chief political adviser, Karl Rove, told the FBI in an interview last October that he circulated and discussed damaging information regarding CIA operative Valerie Plame with others in the White House, outside political consultants, and journalists, according to a government official and an attorney familiar with the ongoing special counsel's investigation of the matter.

But Rove also adamantly insisted to the FBI that he was not the administration official who leaked the information that Plame was a covert CIA operative to conservative columnist Robert Novak last July. Rather, Rove insisted, he had only circulated information about Plame after it had appeared in Novak's column. He also told the FBI, the same sources said, that circulating the information was a legitimate means to counter what he claimed was politically motivated criticism of the Bush administration by Plame's husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson.

Rove and other White House officials described to the FBI what sources characterized as an aggressive campaign to discredit Wilson through the leaking and disseminating of derogatory information regarding him and his wife to the press, utilizing proxies such as conservative interest groups and the Republican National Committee to achieve those ends, and distributing talking points to allies of the administration on Capitol Hill and elsewhere. Rove is said to have named at least six other administration officials who were involved in the effort to discredit Wilson.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Now that we know Valerie was a covert agent, Rove admitted to treason, or am I missing something?

capt

PJ,

Thank you for pointing out the statement by Ms. Halfbright. Good luck with these folks, though. They never met a fact they couldn't ignore, dismiss as never actually happened, or simply attack the person pointing it out!

Kathleen,

Hypothetically whether you believed there were weapons in Iraq before we invaded or not, you stood a 50/50 chance of being right. In other words, NO ONE KNEW for sure beforehand! This is just an incontravertible fact. The fact that some people now SEEM to have been prescient is just an illusion and I don't put any stock in what they have to say because they are just trying to make themselves look smart. It's totally political on their part.

Kathleen,

Look, people on both sides of the pre-war debate argued their points from the best intelligence and their own analyses at the time. Anyone who claimed then or claims now to have known with 100% certainty the status of Saddam's secret WMD's is simply being intellectually dishonest.

It all boiled down to a judgement call based upon a belief in what we saw at the time. To try and cast this as a lie by the President is PURE POLITICS, nothing more.

600 million Arabs. Living in a political hell. Bush, the GOP, Blair and soldiers doing all the heavy work, and all the left does is throw hissy fits. Iraqis have a chance, thanks by and large to the lives, deaths and sweat of mostly evangelical, Republican soldiers. And what equal sacrifice have the lefties done other than to hang out in mid-town coffee shops? Nothing, nada, zip save bitch, bitch, bitch. Why doesn't the left embarrass the right, show them how it is done? Why don't you lefties take on North Korea, Tibet, Cuba? You know, make a statement and like President Kennedy, say by such and such day, so and so will be free? Hitchens is right, and every one in the world knows it, lefties are physical cowards.

When in doubt, "Shock 'n Awe" Them to death by the thousands. Invade and destroy infrastructure to the point where 3 years later the electric's STILL not back up to speed.
Ignore the warnings and reccomendations from your own state department and create a practice ground for insurgent guerilla tactics and kill thousands more.

Yeah, that's the way I'd play a 50 - 50 chance.

Who cares if I had to delete opinions of those opposed to such outrageous mass-murder the nattering nabobs kept putting in my breifings.

"THERE IS NO DOUBT." "WE KNOW RIGHT WHERE THEY (WMDs) ARE!"

Still, Timmy, you follow blindly such men who'd bankrupt your nation in persuit of lies. Your ears are only open for appologists and party hacks. Proven liars are your Kings and Queens.

But still you refuse to see, to hold them responsible.

But still you blame those who've consitently gotten it right.

Puh-thetic.

kisses to the Misses!

-T

SERIAL LIAR BUSH FINALLY GETS CAUGHT

"Many of these politicians have put exclamation marks where we put question marks." ~ Former Chief UN Weapons Inspector Hans Blix.

DETROIT -- That astute remark came in an interview in which Dr. Blix also offered his belief that President Bush's re-election campaign would contort and distort his reports on Saddam Hussein's arsenal of weapons to justify the brutal and unnecessary war in Iraq. Asked if the Bush crowd would attempt to alter the meaning of his findings, Dr. Blix said flat-out, "I'm sure they will."

People in the Bush administration belittled and vilified Blix and his work in Iraq. Time has shown the value of his efforts, and his assessments of Iraq's capabilities were honest and forthright and far more accurate than anything that the Bush administration claimed with dramatic exclamation marks.

The simplicity of Blix's political punctuation insight is intriguing and most instructive when applied to just about anything that comes out of the Bush administration. Whatever the president and his minions declare with a great exclamation mark, just apply a question mark and you'll be much closer to the truth.

Last May, Bush told Polish reporters, "We found the weapons of mass destruction!"

Really?

Those phantom weapons