David,

Please don't ask the folks at the mall. I'd hate to see some of the silly answers you might get.

Might future historians look back at the Bush II days and ask if this was the point when the country started slipping?

"Might?" "Started?" Hate to tell you this, David, be we already done slipped.

David, the truth hurts, and the people at the mall don't want to hear it. Whoever still thinks the "economy is on the move" seems slow to realize that the move is heading straight to hell! The deficit that they advertise is misleading because they fail to include the coming costs for SS and other entitlement programs. Veterans and other vulnerable groups are getting the shaft because of this great economy. There are also loud rumblings regarding the addition of a value added tax on goods, which will certainly wipe out the couple hundred bucks the average Joe may have received, while sinking those who are struggling already even deeper into a hole. Claiming that clinton balanced the budget is wrong. We haven't been operating in the black for decades. That is not the policy of the Federal Reserve, debt, never ending, crushing debt is the policy. Including SS receipts into the main budget does not a balanced budget make, it is an illusion. And everyone grounded in reality knows that clinton was spending SS money almost as wildly as the current commander in thief!

I haven't read the tom paine column yet but before I leave I want to say...thank you for shoving the "There ain't no story there boyz" in O'Reilly's and Hannity's face. That is the biggest joke in journalism since Geraldo's safe.

Hey whats up? baf run everybody off?

Depressing suggestion, all the more so because the likelihood you're right. Where are the signs of hope in our culture? Our economy? Our national morality?

December 7, 1941: A Setup from the Beginning
December 7, 2000
Robert B. Stinnett
Honolulu Advertiser

As Americans honor those 2403 men, women, and children killed and 1178 wounded on the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, Hawaii on December 7, 1941, recently released government documents concerning that surprise raid compel us to revisit some troubling questions.

At issue is American foreknowledge of Japanese military plans to attack Hawaii by a submarine and carrier force 59 years ago. There are two questions at the top of the foreknowledge list: (1) whether President Franklin D. Roosevelt and his top military chieftains provoked Japan into an overt act of war directed at Hawaii, and (2) whether Japan's military plans were obtained in advance by the United States but concealed from the Hawaiian military commanders, Admiral Husband E. Kimmel and Lieutenant General Walter Short so they would not interfere with the overt act.

The latter question was answered in the affirmative on October 30, 2000, when President Bill Clinton signed into law, with the support of a bipartisan Congress, the National Defense Authorization Act. Amidst its omnibus provisions, the Act reverses the findings of nine previous Pearl Harbor investigations and finds that both Kimmel and Short were denied crucial military intelligence that tracked the Japanese forces toward Hawaii and obtained by the Roosevelt Administration in the weeks before the attack.

Immediately after December 7, 1941, military communications documents that disclose American foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbor disaster were locked in U.S. Navy vaults away from the prying eyes of congressional investigators, historians, and authors. Though the Freedom of Information Act freed the foreknowledge documents from the secretive vaults to the sunlight of the National Archives in 1995, a cottage industry continues to cover up America’≥ foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor.
-------------
Important history. Another case of our brave men and women sacrificed for a lie told by greedy and evil politicians.

DEN, I find it an unlikely coincidence that the trolls tend to show up in clumps. Also, dbltap hasn't posted in months, yet here he is, in the midst of the clump. HMMMM says I!

I think many of us are "waking up on the wrong side of the bed" these days -- the bush regime engages in a constant warping of reality that is causing a general malaise of despair in those who are watching closely. The bushies are spreading "disease."

Those who are aware sense that, unless we change our course, we are headed for the rocks. We've been "slipping" for quite a while...
*************

Will the Lying Ever Stop?

"...The danger from this national media predicament is that the Bush administration's "perception management" may work domestically in the near term to keep the American people in line, but the propaganda has declining value elsewhere in the world, especially in the Middle East where U.S. credibility is scraping the bottom.

At some point, international credibility -- or the lack of it -- may emerge as a national security problem. In all likelihood, there will come a time when a truly dangerous threat to the United States will arise and will require a multilateral response.

If that happens, the American people might wish for a Secretary of State who is not viewed around the world as a liar."
***********
When we don't honor democratic values ourselves, how can we convince the world that we have any credibility?

Code Pink, Sheehan's sponsor, was founded by four experienced activists and hardcore Communists - Jodie Evans, Medea Benjamin, Diane Wilson, and a radical Wiccan activist calling herself Starhawk. Ms. Evans is the nominal leader of the organization, which works closely with Medea Benjamin's group Global Exchange, which in turn maintains strong ties to the Communist Workers World Party (WWP). Benjamin's most seditious acts in support of Islamic-fascist terrorism occurred in December 2004, when she announced in Amman, Jordan that Global Exchange, CodePink4Peace, and Families for Peace, would donate some $600,000 in supplies and cash to the Fallujah 'refugees.' This city, you may recall, under the control of terrorist al-Sadr, was the last stronghold of organized resistance in Iraq against U.S. troops.

Cut and paste this address
I would link, but I don't want to do all your work

http://www.jrnyquist.com/roberts_2005_1124.htm

David, Right now there is a lot of fear going around. Mall goers would tell you they are holding their cards close. Rising personal debt, job insecurity, corporate downsizing forcing people to accept lesser quality work without benefits somewhere else, working for bosses that know there are plenty of people needing a job, so if you don't like the work you're fired. Consumers facing the fact that they cannot afford the things they want and opens that depression door. Lack of adaquate medical care for many working poor. The working poor, people who need to support their families chosing between food and medicine. Oh ya we are stimulating economic growth...for who? China? I remember the days we fought for Vietnam to prevent the "Reds" from gaining a foothold, now we are up to our collective ass in debt to the very same country. When have we heard that Communism is a bad word lately? My what is really happening to the frogs in the frypan? We are the frogs and we let our elected leaders take us directly to financial hell in a proverbial handbasket. Combine that with an ongoing conflict with Iraq and you have a recipe for a truly bad Christmas season. You have not gotten up on the wrong side of the bed, you merely pointed out the facts that exist for all to see if they are willing to take a look. I guess brotherly love is an undoable proposition at this point, still there are those that will man the kettles and ring the bell and the homeless will recieve their holiday dinners, and people will gather together to celebrate the holidays, unfortunatly this only a temporary reprieve from world issues. so we shall start again next year. Maybe we will all feel better next holiday season. Enjoy your children, they are the future on which we depend and say a prayer to the God of your choice, that maybe just maybe there is hope and justice.

What the hell we are screwed anyway max out the cards and get more chinese junk in those McMansions just to keep the game afoot for another few weeks,don't worry when this binge ends there will be plenty of time to enjoy the fruits of your borrowing. Paying back is another story, the only way is to devalue the currency so that is what they will do, but don't expect any salaries to go up, just the prices of food, and energy, enjoy your new lifestyle.

These are the COMMUNISTS who founded CODE PINK.

If you Google any of these names:
Medea Benjamin
Starhawk ... aka .... Miriam "Starhawk" Simos
Jodie Evans
Diane Wilson
In quotes then put a space, plus sign, space, and the word communist (example shown below)

"Medea Benjamin" + communist

you will get tons of articles about these hard core Communists and haters of American society.

for example:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=4631

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1097589/posts

http://www.opinioneditorials.com/guestcontributors/khouston_20050120.html

http://www.jrnyquist.com/roberts_2005_1124.htm

http://www.thevillager.com/villager_73/anarchistssaysmearwere.html

THESE WOMEN ARE BAAADDDD PEOPLE.

DEN, maybe everyone is holiday shopping.

Re the Christmas tree debate, Jeremiah Chapter 10 verses 2-4 indicates that ritually cutting down and decorating a tree is a pagan practice and anti-Christian. Remember when the complaint was that Christmas had become too secular? Maybe the solution is to have TWO holidays on the same day. "Christmas" is the celebration of the birth of Christ. The secular holiday could be called Santa Day or Consumer Orgy or whatever the heathens decide. Jews and other non-Christians could participate in X Day without betraying their religions, and the devout Cs could sit out the Orgy and just pray around the Creche. Another problem solved by the Eggman!

As for the economy, I have thought for years that there are really two economies -- the stock market and the job market -- that run more or less counter to each other. Companies make bigger profits when they can get more productivity out of employees or charge more to consumers. Companies that want to boost their stock prices announce layoffs -- that's why they do it in December, to get the price boost at the end of the year when analyst measure year-over-year gains/losses.

In short, what's good for GM is bad for GM employees and car buyers. Failure to recognize these opposing forces is the reason that some people (like Bush) who only think of the welfare (small w) of corporations and never of people, think the economy is doing great, while other people (like college grads who are flipping burgers) think the economy is kind of crappy.

Another disconnect regarding economic analysis is that the measurement of inflation that economists use doesn't count healthcare, among other fast-rising costs. So a 4 percent raise might seem to keep pace with the cost of living, but it actually doesn't even come close if you're on medication (and who isn't?)or need dental work done.

Every program Bush proposes -- the Medicare drug benefit, Clear Skies, the Iraq invasion -- is designed to benefit corporations at the cost of our quality of life. Oil companies helped plan the Iraq war -- now they're rolling in profits and we're stuck with the tab. Corporate profits are great for everyone with stock investments (including me, fortunately) but bad for working people (also including me, unfortunately). Two economies.

It's a mystery to me why in the tragic course of the Bush 2 administration no one has referred to Paul Kennedy's 1987 book "The Rise and Fall of Great Powers." As best I recollect, he attributed the downfall of every world empire to the build up of a miitary which eventually became so big that it bankrupted the country. Britain of course was the last empire to fall and in 1987 Kennedy said the US was right on track. Though he presumably reads nothing, W seems to have followed the script faithfully.

Deveopling from the Drudge Report

NYT/CBS News poll just out shows Bush's approval rating improving markedly. Also Americans better attitude toward the economy.

Sorry Don S, Robert S, What the Fuck and all you other pessimists, your parade has just ended!!!

That end of empire feeling comes to all empires eventually. Caesar Augustus is described by historians as a splendid, rather than a heroic figure. He was, in fact, a tolerant opportunist, who, by his policy of divide and conquer, became the chairman of the board, rather than the monarch of his empire. He believed in Rome not so much as an empire, but as a great corporation. It is therefore not surprising that he tolerated governors who had political clout and few other talents. One of these was Publius Quintilius Varo (Varus), who had made a fortune while serving as governor of Syria. It is said that he went to that rich province as a relatively poor man, and when he left, he was rich, and Syria poor. When he was appointed as governor of Germany, problems developed. About the only gold those primitive Germans had was used as jewelry for the wives of their chieftains, and in those days, women had a lot of influence over their men. So the chieftains were influenced to kick the Romans out of Germany. Near the end of the summer of 9AD, Varus received news of a dispute among the Germans. Since the Germans had been fairly docile (and still are), Varus decided to play his role as Great White Father to these barbarians, and take his legions, with the women and children of his soldiers, in order to hold court. His legions were wiped out, and Rome was not able to replace these men for many years. The German tribes realized that the Romans were not invincible, and decided not to take any more BS from their former masters. Caesar Augustus was terrified, because he assumed that the Germans would now march against Rome, and he no longer had an army to stop them. Feel free to insert "President" or "Iraq", where you feel it might be appropriate, should you choose to copy this tale from our ancient history.

eggman, I think you've hit on a brilliant idea! Instead of all the fuss, how about just letting everyone do just what seems right to them? What a concept! I myself prefer to celebrate the Winter Solstice, to me, the return of spring and the thought of getting back out into the garden is the best part of the dreary, commercialized winter season.

That end of empire feeling comes to all empires eventually. Caesar Augustus is described by historians as a splendid, rather than a heroic figure. He was, in fact, a tolerant opportunist, who, by his policy of divide and conquer, became a chairman of the board, rather than the monarch of his empire. He believed in Rome not so much as an empire, but as a great corporation. It is therefore not surprising that he tolerated governors who had political clout and few other talents. One of these was Publius Quintilius Varo (Varus), who had made a fortune while serving as governor of Syria. It is said that he went to that rich province as a relatively poor man, and when he left, he was rich, and Syria poor. When he was appointed as governor of Germany, problems developed. About the only gold those primitive Germans had was used as jewelry for the wives of their chieftains, and in those days, women had a lot of influence over their men. So the chieftains were influenced to kick the Romans out of Germany. Near the end of the summer of 9AD, Varus received news of a dispute among the Germans. Since the Germans had been fairly docile (and still are), Varus decided to play his role as Great White Father to these barbarians, and take his legions, with the women and children of his soldiers, in order to hold court. His legions were wiped out, and Rome was not able to replace these men for many years. The German tribes realized that the Romans were not invincible, and decided not to take any more BS from their former masters. Caesar Augustus was terrified, because he assumed that the Germans would now march against Rome, and he no longer had an army to stop them. Feel free to insert "President" or "Iraq", where you feel it might be appropriate, should you choose to copy this tale from our ancient history.

David, it was hearing Dr. Zbigniew Bryzinski both here at Ohio Univ, and on the Diane Rehm show, address the repercussions from this invasion that concerned me. He said "the U.S. may have turned a corner and we may not be able to turn back."

I then heard Arthur Schlesenger say on Diane Rehm, "we may be witnessing the fall of another empire". I was able to ask both these gentlemen direct questions about their concerns and their answers were deeply disturbing. When I hear men with a great deal of knowledge of history and politics and experience say things like this.

As well as the hundred (possibly close to a thousand) people over the age of 65 that I talked with and audio-taped at the anti-invasion marches. Along with the many people I talked with in the VFW's and Moose Lodges of south eastern ohio, all say very similar things.

That they had never in their lives been so concerned about the direction of this country. Many of them were scared. I knew at that point from looking into these folks eyes (many of them had been through WWII and the depression) that our country was in deep trouble. Maybe never to recover.

Sure makes you wonder who the Bush administration has been working for. Sure has not been for the American people.

"For history is to the nation rather as memory is to the individual. As an individual deprived of memory becomes disoriented and lost, not knowing who he has been or where he is going, so a nation denied a conception of its past will be disabled in dealing with its present and its future." ...... Arthur Schlesenger Jr.

SURE SEEMS LIKE THE PAGE WE ARE ON.. THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION WANTS US ALL TO MOVE ON.

YET OUR CONGRESS

SPENT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND A GREAT DEAL OF TIME INVESTIGATING LIES ABOUT A BLOW JOB.

WE MUST CONTINUE TO DEMAND THAT THEY THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATE THE WMD INTELLIGENCE SNOWJOB.

AND HOLD THOSE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS FALSE INTELLIGENCE ACCOUNTABLE.

somehow.. investigating an intelligence snowjob seems equally as important as investigating lies about a blow job...call me unreasonable

Kathleen, I agree with the Dr. We are in very bad trouble, I don't see a solution. Who is bushco working for? Do you really want to know?

21 kathleen,
somehow.. investigating an intelligence snowjob seems equally as important as investigating lies about a blow job...call me unreasonable

You are VERY unreasonable!

because of:

ONE HUGE DIFFERENCE !!!!

The Blow job and lies actually happened.

Lied into war DID NOT happen.

Unless ALL involved lied who saw the EXACT SAME intelligence reports, Clinton, Kerry, ETC ... you know the players.

I would link but I don't want to do all your work. Read I would link but I just don't know how.

15 andrew,

Yeah, Right. All the ountries that tried that communism thing seem to have really progressed to positions of great influence and power in the world over the years.

Ambro 24

Did you read the articles on the communists?

Get your hand of your dick, and your finger out of your ass, and do your homework.

You haven't changed a bit since you were in school.

I don't want to have to tell you again.

You will grow hair on your palm, maybe even go blind.

Let me preface my remarks by saying that I am anti-torture. That being said, we all know that torture is taking place on a daily basis. Disagree with torture all you want but we cannot disallow that option. We cannot go back to the days of back alley torture performed by incompetent individuals. If we must have torture, so be it. But we must make it safe, legal and rare!

Saladin, from the last thread...no, I wasn't referring to you. I was posting in response to a stupid remark from a troll (first letter "b"). that could not be left unchallenged.

I'm with you about the reawakening and the gardening...peace on earth, digging in the dirt.

Thank you Mr. Bush. You know the concept of rob Peter to pay Paul. I know you do, don't deny it. You use it all the time. Peter is the middle class. Paul is the wealthy.
Well....that's what most of the middle class does on a daily basis now. You think the economy is improving? Only in your universe on the planet where God talks to you. Are you special.
And about those jobs you keep boasting about? Nobody is being paid a living wage anymore and you give the rich tax breaks. I'd call you an a$$hole but that wouldn't be polite.
Don't be fooled Mr. Bush. When the American public thanks you, you just aren't hearing the rest of the sentence. Thank you and f**k you.

Paul Wolfowitz spoke today in Washington DC at the National Press Building. Among the protestors' signs was:

"Wolfowitz + World Bank = War + Poverty"

TRH # 27

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with, "DO UNTO OTHERS as they DO UNTO YOU"

If they cut off a hand, we cut off a hand, if they cut off a head, we cut off a head.

I don't want to be worse than them.

I am not arrogant enough to think I am better than them.

We should all try to be the same.

That is why we should ONLY do to the terrorists, EXACTLY the same as the terrorists do to us.

Fair is fair, right is right. Everyone is equal and the SAME.

David,
Take my last posting to that pea brain O'Reilly and tell him to put me on his freaking list. Eat lots of onions and say "Happy Holidays" to him. Oh and tell him my daughter is Code Pink. That ought to rile him up. It seems to have that affect on people with an IQ less then 80.
You think I'm joking. No. No. No. I am watching my country disintegrate and I am pissed.

Hoot,

Insert "abortion" where you see the word "torture." You hear people make that argument everyday for abortion, but god forbid we cause harm to the precious life of a terrorist.

Jeanne

You really need to take a course on taxation- how can Bush rob you to pay Paul when you don't pay any taxes? I bet none of you trolls do!

Also, it is rather shameless how you use your daughter to fight your battles (code pink).I would not be proud of that!!

#34
Yawn.

EXCLUSIVE: POTENTIAL SECURITIES FRAUD CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT AGAINST DIEBOLD IN PROGRESS!

Brad Blog has received exclusive detailed information about a developing potential class action securities litigation against Diebold, Inc. (stock symbol: DBD). The class for the suit will involve shareholders who purchased or owned stock in the Ohio-based company any time from October 22, 2003 though September 21, 2005.

Though we are not at liberty at this time to discuss the specifics of the potential litigation and the causes of action in the complaint being compiled, The BRAD BLOG has learned that the class action lawsuit, currently being drawn up, will involve securities fraud violations and other troubling matters for the controversial company, its CEO as well as current and former members of its Board of Directors.

VelvetRevolution.us (an organization co-founded by BRAD BLOG managing editor, Brad Friedman) is seeking additional individuals and groups who may qualify as plaintiffs in the specified class. Those who owned or purchased Diebold stock, or mutual funds which carried Diebold during the period mentioned, are asked to contact LawSuit@VelvetRevolution.us where information submitted may be turned over to attorneys for possible addition to the plaintiff class.

Union groups who own or owned shares of Diebold or mutual funds which invest in the company are specifically urged to contact VR about joining the class action.

The mutual funds which are most heavily invested in Diebold are listed here. Information on "Insider Transactions" is listed here.

Diebold, Inc. is the controversial Voting Machine and ATM manufacturer who was recently compared to Enron by an anonymous company insider The BRAD BLOG dubbed "DIEB-THROAT" in a series of exclusive reports. The Internet news site, RAW STORY ran a new exclusive interview with DIEB-THROAT yesterday revealing additional details on the inner-workings of the company and potential legal issues they may face.

Shortly after our first report on DIEB-THROAT, Diebold's stock price plummeted some 15.5%. The company attributed their troubles at the time to shortfalls in the wake of Hurricane Katrina and on the same day announced the resignation of their chief operating officer (COO) and President, Eric C. Evans. Our source, DIEB-THROAT, challenged the company's response to the falling stock prices in the wake of lower than expected earnings by suggestion that "Using Hurricane Katrina is a poor excuse for bad products - the last time this kind of deception occurred it was called Enron."

Diebold CEO Walden O'Dell has come under harsh criticism for his statement to Republican fundraisers that Diebold was committed to delivering the electoral vote of the state of Ohio to George W. Bush prior to the 2004 Presidential Election. O'Dell was part of Bush's "Rangers and Pioneers," a group of individuals who had raised at least $100,000 each for Bush/Cheney's 2004 re-election campaign.

As well, the company has been facing other mounting troubles, legal and in the court of public opinion, over their implementation of software, hardware and various Elections Systems contracts around the United States as has been reported in have charged the company may be in violation of a court order stemming from that agreement. In North Carolina, Diebold recently lost an attempt in the court system to receive exemption from parts of a state law requiring the escrow of their voting system's software source code. They were certified anyway the next day in North Carolina, and some activists have questioned whether or not the certification was done according to state law and whether or not new legal proceedings may be launched there. And in California, a debate rages on concerning the possible re-certification of Diebold's touch-screen voting machines here after some 20% of their machines failed in a recent mock election test.

According to internal "Privileged and Confidential" documents of "Attorney Work Product" originally obtained and reported by Ian Hoffman of The Oakland Tribune in 2004, an estimate of legal costs in California for the Voting Machine giant was pegged by their attorneys at $535,000 - $925,000 for just a single two month period in order to fight mounting legal troubles in the state. Diebold's law firm, Jones Day fought in Los Angeles County Superior Court to keep those leaked memos from being further circulated.

The document estimating legal expenses [PDF] lists costs in regard to the Qui Tam Action filed (and eventually settled) by election watchdogs at BlackBoxVoting.org, the costs for fighting "Criminal Exposure" such as "legal analysis of potential criminal violations" and "White collar criminal law attorney pre-grand jury investigative advice" and even costs to the firm to "Monitor selected Web sites to gain key intelligence."

Concerning the potential of a new lawsuit against the company, DIEB-THROAT is not surprised, and expressed hopes to The BRAD BLOG in a recent email that some good may come from the possibilities of upcoming litigation:

"The denial of every documented problem with Diebold's voting system was bound to unravel sooner or later. I am not surprised that such a lawsuit has developed [as] the company consistently offered Wall Street deceptive information. Perhaps with the help of few patriotic plaintiffs our nation will be saved from Diebold's corporate takeover of our right to vote - and have that vote counted free from corporate and political influence."
-------------------
Happy Holidays, everyone.

By the way, if you want to know if your mutual fund held Diebold stock, go to the article. They have a link to it.

Jeanne

Yawn all you want, but we both know I'm right!!!

Shameless!!!!

Jeanne

I guess if your mom spends all day on the computer instead of paying attention to her kids, well code pink might be a better way to go to get some attention.

David, I certainly understand what you mean about the economy. The average sales for shoes and handbags for the select group reaping the tax cuts is $29,000. The average ticket for yacht charter $367,000. Less people have found a job than have entered the job market in five years. Hell, according to his numbers only one out of four new illegal immigrants has found a job. Wages are not only declining against inflation, but the solution to inflation (raising interest rates) is the second biggest cost after energy. Hubbard and Bernake should receive a pulitzer prize. You can see their works of fiction online for free, just google The Presidents Report on the Economy editions 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005. The secretary of treasury is not even disguised for the Snow job he brings to Washington.

Total fiscal carnage. GWB thinks he's on MTV, "The moneys for nothin and the chicks are free."

He promoted it and people bought it at the last election I see the round car window stickers every day that say W04. Wha4? Nuthin!

No fiscal responsibility. No economic responsibility. No energy policy. No international responsibility. No moral responsibility. No responsibility for poverty or health care. No responsibility to keep American companies American. No responsibility for jobs going overseas and immigrants taking the new jobs over here. No responsibility for intelligence. None for emergency management.

Free cash for the drug companies. Free cash for the oil companies. Ken Lay, his biggest benefactor prior to 2002, is still walking the walk. Free cash for Cheney and his offshore, no bid, no taxes paid Halliburton.

The policy solutions that are needed require no more than 3rd grade math. We don't even have to learn it, just take a peak at the homework already being done by every advanced country on earth. Stop subsidizing the defense of Japan, Germany, Israel and Egypt. Stop adding the cost of health care to every product we make manufacture. And stop looking for profits based on outsourcing because every job outsourced is a loss of six customers at home. Stop selling guns to every third rate bastard nation on the planet to use against their people. Stop scaring the people with this holy war on terror because their is one terrorist nation and it spends more on terror than all the countries on earth spend on all of their armies and navies combined. Stop subsidizing the farmers so they can farm again. Stop taxing the poor for sales, income and FICA and admit the real income from a full time minimum wage job is about $6,000 per year.

And let people like Joey #23 know that just because they believe a lie, doesn't make it true. We all accept things because it is more comfortable that way. Bush lied five different ways about why went to Iraq. WMD - not true. Better off with Saddam - not true. Create democracy - not true. Connected to Al Qaeda - not true. FIght terrorists there so we won't fight them here - not true. And he lies about it again today. "The Iraqi people are making progress with their economy. The Baathist followers of Saddam and the insurgent followers of Al Qaeda are slowing things down, but the people won't be stopped". We bombed a civilization out of existence after 10,000 years and he compares that to a few car bombs? We had to stop WMDs that weren't there and we dropped more tons of bombs on Iraq that one side used in all of WWII.

The economy, the tax cuts, the fiscal carnage, the reason for 911, the war in Iraq and the lies add up to one thing. Gotta feed that military industrial complex. Its got a big appetite.

Geof -

from:
a new abortion convert

I know that capt and some others will not believe that I have changed my colors, but on the issue of abortion, I have.

After reading several of the articles about the founding members of Code Pink, I now believe
abortion is necessary in some circumstances.

It should have been completely legal in the cases of Medea Benjamin, Starhawk, Jodie Evans, and
Diane Wilson.

Before the mothers of the above mentioned communist human shit, were allowed to squat on their toilets, and grunt out those pieces of human feces, a proctologist should have reached up their assholes and crushed their heads with a giant forceps, before they could splash down into the toilets.

I now believe that in rare circumstances, such as Medea Benjamin, Starhawk, Jodie Evans, Diane Wilson, after birth abortions should be legalized.

Isn't it good to know that those who promote the right to life for the unborn still want to bomb innocent people half a planet away, adhere to the primitive security of the death penalty, and make a list of those they want evaporated for having a different opinion? Jesus Robert you forgot Laura and Barbara Bus.

Good Evening, everyone. I want to make one announcement before we begin.

I've had enough of all those interrogations. According to the U.N. Human Rights Commission, I don't have to put up with all of the questions and the shame of getting caught in all of my lies and half-truths. Even Condi says that Reporters are no longer allowed to engage in Cruel and Inhumane interrogations tactics. But she is such a friggin liar that I don't know when she's shittin' me.

Just today, I was forced to admit to reporters that I wasn't sure how much oil we were stealing from Iraq. I wasn't about to step in that one cause with the oil for food investigation, I could get indicted for being part of the American Conspiracy to comandeer all that yummy . . . I mean, Iraq's oil.

Let me give you a flavor of the crap I have to eat in these briefings:

Me:The Iraqi people have made tremendous sacrifices. Our troops have made enormous sacrifices to lay the foundations of peace for generations to come and help transform the broader Middle East, which has been a dangerous region of the world that has been a breeding ground for terrorism.

Helen Thomas (She's such a wiseass): It wasn't a breeding ground before we went in.

Me: Helen, if we weren't fighting the terrorists in Iraq, they would be planning and plotting to attack America.

Wiseass: How do you know that?

Me: Because they attacked us on September 11th, they attacked us -- they attacked people in London, they attacked people in Madrid, they have attacked people across the civilized world.

Wiseass: If they were successful in planning to attack Madrid and London, why wouldn't they plan to attack us?

Me: Look. They're blowing our troops up 10, 20 at a time. Why would they bother to plan, raise money, buy a passport in Saudi Arabia, go through customs, risk getting caught here, when they can just blow Americans up in Iraq?

Wiseass:: I see.

(later on in the briefing)

Wiseass: Is it an insurgency?

Me: I'm sorry?

Wiseass: Is it an insurgency?

Me: I would define it the way the President did in his remarks today. I think that's --

Wiseass: So you don't want to call it an insurgency anymore?

Me: Well, no, I think .... (they cut me off here, those rude bastards).

Wiseass: One of the things about an insurgency, of course, is that most experts will tell you, it takes nine, 10 years to defeat an insurgency. Are you trying to intentionally mislead the American people into thinking that the War in Iraq won't last that long?

Me: Well, see, we don't give a flying fuck what happens after these next 3 years are over. We'll all be gone by then.

===+===

Those assholes just love to torture me that way.

I'd quit my position as Press Flack, but Uncle Dick has all those pictures of me and Jeffy Lube sharing our love. You know that's why Karl hired him to come to the White House. He knows I can't resist men in uniform, with all those nummy muscles, and those bristly buzz cuts. I, ahem, I gotta get going now. I feel like I need to be alone, right now.

For a transcript of the Press Briefing, click here.

Go ahead MibuVioValBenSelemRobJoseph, don't be such a coward. Read it. It's some damned funny shit.

baf, ain't it about time you got over to the gas-n-sip. Those hot dogs won't climb on that rotisserie by themselves, ya' know.

Oh, no. Don't tell me you got fired again. Gotta keep those sticky fingers out of the till, dude. Look at what happened to Duke Cunningham and Tom Delay and Jack Abramoff and Ney and, well, you get the picture.

Jeanne - good posts. In the 50s it was "As GM goes, so goes the nation." Now it's "As Diebold goes, so goes the election."

More from the compassionate conservatives...

Ex-GOP Official Faces Conspiracy Charge
Former GOP Official Faces One Federal Count of Conspiring Against Voters' Rights in 2002
By BEVERLEY WANG
The Associated Press
CONCORD, N.H. - A former national Republican Party official played a key role in an Election Day 2002 phone jamming plot against New Hampshire Democrats, the prosecution said Tuesday during opening statements.

James Tobin, President Bush's onetime New England campaign chairman, is being tried on one federal count of conspiring against voters' rights and several counts involving telephone harassment. He could face up to 10 years in prison if convicted.

U.S. Attorney Andrew Levchuk said the state GOP's former executive director, Chuck McGee, had Tobin's blessing for the scheme as well as his help in the plot to disrupt Democratic get-out-the-vote phone banks and a nonpartisan ride-to-the-polls line.

Tobin, 45, resigned as New England chairman of Bush's 2004 campaign in October 2004 when the phone jamming accusations became public. Tobin also has been political director of the Republican National Committee.

McGee, who admitted hatching the plot, completed a seven-month sentence for conspiracy. Another conspirator, Allen Raymond, also pleaded guilty for organizing the jamming, but wants a five-month sentence reduced in exchange for cooperating with prosecutors.

Prosecutors claim McGee paid Raymond, former president of Alexandria, Va.-based GOP Marketplace LLC, $15,600 to arrange for hundreds of computer generated hang-up calls to jam phone banks in Claremont, Rochester and Manchester on Nov. 5, 2002.

Dane Butswinkas, one of Tobin's lawyers, on Tuesday warned jurors to be wary of Raymond's motives when he testifies. "That five months is hanging over his head like a piano," he said.

McGee testified he couldn't find anyone willing to carry out the phone jamming and asked Tobin for help about a week before Election Day.

He said Tobin gave him Raymond's phone number. "He just says give him a call," McGee said.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Copyright © 2005 ABC News Internet Ventures

Robert 41

That was hilarious,

I am laughing so hard, I almost gave birth to another Code Pinker in my pants.

I can almost see the mothers, of those little turds, sitting on the toilet, with a foul stench circling up from the bowel.

Do you suppose the wrapped them in toilet paper instead of blankets?

That was great, keep up the good work, it is better than Pande's Monday comics.

His are always so lame.

pande - great poke at the pressroom idiot, but reading the transcript from the link I must say you really downplayed the way he had his ass kicked today.

I hope people will remember Katrina for the Bitch that woke up the MSM and sicked them on the Bush White House.

I really enjoyed the one where they asked him why the applause level was so low compared to the latest speeches at military bases.

Good thing the POTUS doesn't read. He would be looking for the son of another benefactor to be press secretary. What a wimp. And then he has the nerve to go on line and use the pen name baf.

kathleen, I always wondered why republicans were so busy building prisons in every state during the 90s.

Retirement Homes.

micki 28, sorry, since I don't read troll remarks I have no idea what they are saying. Here's to peace and fertility in the garden!
TRH, get off the abortion high horse! How many people died because of the lies told about the very anniversary we are celebrating today? Does anyone even give a shit about the innocent lives lost? Do you? How many are dying now because of lies? Terrorists? Do you even know who the terrorists are? The ones they talk about on TV, or the real ones? No wonder the same shit keeps happening over and over again. Gullible idiots that don't know a thing about history. Micki, Carol is right, we are f**kin doomed.

Robert 41
and Hajji 46

You guys are right, that was some funny ... (Code Pink)

I never bragged that I was funny, or even smart, because, as you already know I am neither. Robert,you win hands down.

I gotta go, I have to go give birth to a (Code Pink) in the capt, and wipe my Jeanne with some Saladin paper.

Talk to you later.

So busy winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people

Thursday, December 08, 2005 Wednesday, December 07, 2005

Triple bombing kills 46 Iraqis

* Police find another 29 bodies
* Militants say they have US hostage

BAGHDAD: At least 43 Iraqi police officers and cadets were killed and 72 others wounded on Tuesday when two women suicide bombers blew themselves up in a Baghdad police academy classroom, police said. In another incident, a suicide bomber killed three people and injured at least 20 others outside a cafe in Baghdad on Tuesday, police added.

Initial reports from the US military had said at least 27 police officers and academy students were killed and another 32 wounded in the attack. “Two suicide bombers attacked an Iraqi police academy in east Baghdad around 12:45pm,” the military said in a statement. “Two females, each wearing a suicide vest, walked into a classroom at the academy and detonated in the midst of students,” it added. It remains unclear how the two women were able to breach heavy security in place around the academy, where roads have been sealed off by Iraqi police in a bid to prevent such bombings.

Women, however, are not always subject to the same stringent security checks as men in largely conservative Iraq where it is deemed inappropriate for male guards to frisk women or girls.

Meanwhile, police said on Tuesday they had found the bodies of 20 people dumped in two separate locations in an area of western Iraq well known for insurgency violence.

Eleven men in civilian clothes were found on Monday dumped next to the main highway that links Baghdad to the border with Jordan in Iraq’s west, police said.

The bodies were found near the town of Rutba, 370 km west of Baghdad, in the mainly Sunni Arab desert province of Anbar. The bodies all had their hands tied and the men appeared to have been killed three days ago. Their identities were not clear.

Also on Tuesday, police said the bodies of nine civilians had been found a day earlier beside a road near Fallujah. All nine had gunshot wounds.

An Iraqi militant group has kidnapped a US security consultant and is threatening to kill him in 48 hours unless Washington frees all Iraqi prisoners, according to a video aired by Al Jazeera television on Tuesday. The grainy video showed a blonde, Western-looking man sitting down with his hands tied behind his back with the logo of the Islamic Army in Iraq. It also showed an American passport and an Arabic identity card bearing the name Ronald Schulz. agencies

#48 Geofo1...clever and funny....let's just hope that is where they go.

And this is the reason we are doomed. Thank you WTF for sending me this link.

Keepers at the Gate
He Who Controls Television Controls the Masses
By Manuel Valenzuela

From ICH

The greatest weapon of mass control to ever arise sits proudly in our home, welcomed by us into the safe confines of where our children reside. The tool used by corporatists to gain dominion over our nation and lives has become our most cherished possession. We place full trust in its capacity and technology, in the escapism it can offer and the news it can provide. It is the only way the Keepers at the Gate can enter our homes, thereby penetrating our minds and that of our children. Yet we control the remote and the ability to leave the monitor off. It is up to us to kill our television before it kills us. Only then will the Keepers at the Gate dissipate from our minds, and our consciousness. For they can enter our home only if we allow them and today, more than ever, they need to be shown the door, with darkness enveloping their attempted passage into our lives.

The right wing radicals still building the case for their PNAC/ A CLEAN BREAK SECURING THE REALM PLANS.... If these folks continue to run free and are not held accountable for their pre-war lies...they still have three years..

U-S heightens rhetoric against Syria
STATE DEPARTMENT Syria is on "the side of terrorists."

That accusation comes today from the U-S State Department, which is linking Syria to a Palestinian group that says it's responsible for five terror attacks on Israel.

Palestinian Islamic Jihad has offices in Damascus. And a State Department spokesman says there are "regular interactions" between Syria and the group.

The State Department has called on Syria before to close the Damascus offices of terror groups.

Today's statement comes as Israel's army vows to target Islamic Jihad operatives on the West Bank.

Copyright 2005 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Saladin,

I'm not on an abortion high horse. The very same people who condemn even a hint of torture look the other way when it comes to killing a baby. I don't agree with abortion nor do I agree with torture. However, a would grant more rights to a baby than I would a terrorist, real or imagined. That's just my opinion. I am sure there were some nodding in agreement with my anti-torture post until they saw my insert "abortion" where you see "torture" post. I even made Hoot mad enough to respond.

My felloe Amerkins. I know that my population has dropped by a few points just this week in the rASSmunchen Reports poles; but ONLY 55 persent dont like the job Im doing. I have to point out that a full 15 persent thinck I'm doing a bang up job and 80 persent think that I rock. That seams like more then 100 persent but what do them rASSmussen losers know. Numbers

Dont get rapped up in them numbers. Keep putting up them joocy bits of misinformation. Jess the uther day I read one of you Bushbutts --yeh, thats cute, like turdblossom-- well one of you Bushbutts talked about how we torchered Osama Bin Laden until he told us where the CIA was taking all them terrists. It terns out thay was in Poleland. Hay, dont forget Poleland. Noe what Im saying?

Enyways, I was feelin a littel down cuz folk have been saying bad stuff about me. Like I read this the uther day. Sum mene guy sez--

President Loser: Let us count the things that were lost on Bush’s watch, then let us hang them around his neck, like big French medals. He immediately lost the budget surplus. Then he lost the World Trade Center. Damn near lost the Pentagon too. Then he lost America’s moral standing in the world. He lost an entire American city - New Orleans. Nobody’s ever lost a whole American city before. Then, he lost the War in Iraq.

Then thay started talking bad about the Party.

The Grand Old Hypocrisy Party. These were the guys who were going to restore honor to the White House. Bush was a uniter, not a divider. These people are not occasionally found in a hypocritical situation – they are professional hypocrites. They name things the opposite of what they are. Clear Skies means more mercury in the air. Healthy Forests means more dead trees. No Child Left Behind means we fall further and further behind industrialized nations while our kids learn pseudoscience like Intelligent Design. A Jobs and Stimulus Package, that actually loses jobs. The president calls his home a ranch, but it’s got no cattle, no horses neither. Bush pretends to run a clean campaign and has Carl Rove slander John McCain and the Swift Boat Veterans slander John Kerry, and a man with 5 deferments questions the courage of a decorated Vietnam veteran.

Then thay start talking crap about gubmint.

Loot and Pollute defines all their policies. Loot Iraq, and leave a disaster behind. Loot the treasurey and leave deficits behind. Pollute the air, pollute the water, just so that this month’s Enron can get their loot.

Give it a go fellas. Keep pilin up them lies. Its the onliest thing that works these days what with all the jobs being owtsorced to the Navahoes or Utes or Apachees. I dunno its one of them indians.

And wach out for that Pandemoiniac felloe. Hes to smart for you Bushbutts. He makes you look like a bunch of idjit galoots. I tell ya that one is meeene -- mene to the bone.

Pinter demands war crimes trial for Blair

The Nobel prize-winning playwright Harold Pinter has called for Tony Blair to be tried for war crimes, in his acceptance speech to the Nobel committee...

..."The invasion of Iraq was a bandit act, an act of blatant state terrorism demonstrating absolute contempt for the concept of international law," he said.

"The invasion was an arbitrary military action inspired by a series of lies upon lies and gross manipulation of the media and therefore of the public ... a formidable assertion of military force responsible for the death and mutilation of thousands and thousands of innocent people.

"We have brought torture, cluster bombs, depleted uranium, innumerable acts of random murder, misery, degradation and death to the Iraqi people, and call it 'bringing freedom and democracy to the Middle East'."

.....How many people do you have to kill before you qualify to be described as a mass murderer and a war criminal? One hundred thousand? More than enough, I would have thought," he said.

"Therefore it is just that Bush and Blair be arraigned before the international criminal court of justice. But Bush has been clever. He has not ratified the international criminal court of justice ...

"But Tony Blair has ratified the court and is therefore available for prosecution. We can let the court have his address if they're interested: it is Number 10, Downing Street, London."

Saladin, 49
Does anyone even give a shit about the innocent lives lost? Do you?

Of course you are referring to the innocent lives taken by suicide bombers, correct?

I know we mourn for those people. Do you?
You never seem to mention them.

You only mention the ones that were accidentally killed, and never the ones that were killed as the main targets of suicide bomber terrorist acts.

Saladin,
I have read some of your posts.
I want to make sure I am reading you right.

You see no difference:

YOU are driving home from work, accidentally hit some kid on a bike, and the kid dies.

Are you saying that is no different than actually hunting down kids on bikes, and running them over on purpose.

Kind of like American soldiers going after the child killers, and some one accidentally gets hit by a stray round, is no different than the suicide bomber blowing up a restaurant filled with civilians.

If you are implying any similitary, you are one sick little mixed up little chic.

Just what in the hell do you Bushbutts think that you're doing? Can't you see that home heating oil prices are fixing to go through the roof? I just received an email from my old pals at Cheneyburton that my check's in the mail. I think I'll make it through the winter; but WE don't need you stirring up crap about the economy, not with credit card bills, Holiday season gifts, and tax season around the corner. Keep talking about moral values. That's where the real money is.

You have to thank our Republican majority in Congress for blocking all those casinos, massage parlors and liquor stores from rebuilding unless our guy Abramoff can get us a cut of the action. What? Casinos, massage parlors and liquor stores aren't part of the Christian agenda? I have 3 words for you: Go fuck yerself.

Uncurious George is right. Folks are saying some gawdawful stuff about our party:

The National Incompetence Party. They can’t run a war. They can’t run an economy. They can’t reinforce the levees when the hurricanes are coming. They can’t reconstruct an American city. They can’t reconstruct a foreign country they bombed to bits. They can’t negotiate an international coalition. They can’t create jobs. They can’t balance a budget. They can’t even avoid being indicted.

The Name-Calling Party. There are two reasons to call them the name calling party. The first, because it’s what they do. Please, go on any right wing website or blog and read the names they call even John McCain or John Murtha. Let alone Clinton or Schumer. The second, is because it’s time for the left to start doing it. As the game is played now, it is important to accuse your opponent of what you, yourself are doing. Say it first, say it often, don’t flinch when they say it back, just repeat the accusation two more times.

The Big Secrets Party. They love secrets. Why? Because if the people knew the truth about what they were doing, they would know they are looting and polluting, they’re sneak thieves, they’re incompetent, they’ve been asleep at the wheel and they’re losers.

The Mean Girls Party. Oh my word, aren’t they whiney. Now that they’re in party, they just keep everyone out. They have their secrets, which they don’t have to share, and that makes them better than anyone else in the lunchroom. They all have their nicknames. And they like to play mean dirty tricks on other people and snicker about it later. Nothing they ever do is wrong, because other people made them do it. Anyway, they’re the real victims. You don’t even have to ask, they’ll tell you so. With my apologies to the feminists among us, but they are just like the Heathers.

There you have it. President Loser. Leader of the Grand Old Hypocrisy Party that became the National Incompetence Party when they took power and used their power to Loot and Pollute. While they kept all their Big Secrets and ruled the lunchroom … but, no more chit-chat, the Heather-in-Chief has to go do his exercise to keep his waist slim because he’s going shopping for more Heather-in-Chief outfits to wear when he next parades in front of the troops.

Ouch. MibuVioValBenSelemRobJoseph, you're slacking off son. Why are you using girls' names? Jessica? Rita? Anita? Boy, have you no shame? These lefties are making you look like a moron, especially that Pandemoniac fellow. You really should develop a sense of humor, and learn how to spell, and learn how to link, and learn how to turn a phrase, and learn how to use html tags. . . daaang, You are a moron.

Pregnant Iraqi women fearful of Baghdad's dangerous roads

Police Capt. Sabah Ahmed has risked his life for pregnant women who go into labor in the dark.
Sometimes he's refused the calls, fearing an insurgent trap. "We are targeted," he said. But he feels guilty, and he always wonders if he left a woman stranded.

Once, as he approached a woman's home in Doura, an insurgent-infested neighborhood in Baghdad, he was stopped at an Iraqi National Guard checkpoint. Beyond the soldiers, the sounds of a gunfight filled the air. He turned around and called the woman's home to tell her he wouldn't come. But an 8-year-old girl answered the phone in tears. "My mother's in pain," she told him.

He changed out of his uniform, got into a civilian car with his partner and took a different route. As the pregnant woman screamed in pain and fear, he maneuvered through the roads, steering away from the sound of bullets being fired. By 2 a.m. she was at the hospital.

"I risked my life and the life of my colleagues," he said, explaining why he was disciplined afterward. "But the little girl answered" when he'd called.

...Razeq Zubaidi, 20, and her husband, Natheer Manaseer, 35, hardly slept at all in their upscale home in Zayuna, a southeast Baghdad neighborhood, during the final month of her pregnancy. She had pains in her back and belly, and she would cry. What if the baby comes now?
What if we get shot on the dark roads to the hospital after curfew?

Even when his wife slept peacefully, Manaseer sat awake in the dark. If she went into labor, what would he do? He didn't know how to deliver a baby. When the sun first peeked over the horizon, relief set in. Now he could take her to the hospital. Then darkness returned and he lay awake. Night after night he tossed in their cherry wood-framed bed, until the month had passed.

Five days before Yahya's birth a neighboring family was shot and killed as they drove on the dark roads at 7 p.m. American soldiers shot the mother, father and two children, thinking they might be terrorists, Manaseer said.

"Other mothers can just enjoy this," she said waving her hand toward her son. "I'm suffering. I have to worry about my child, about the security, about everything. I think about my baby and my other babies that will come in the future."

At night they still worry. When Yahya gets sick they wait for the morning to call a doctor. Even the night he had a rash and blood in his urine, they waited for the light of day.
----------------
What can I say? War is hell. And it was brought about with lies.

I just love it when the VP visits this site! Thank you for all the good work you do, Mr. Cheney.

There once was a girl named Jill
She quit taking her birth control pill

She screwed 13 guys
On 2 horny tries
Cause her huge hole was so hard to fill

In her oven she wanted a bun
Her husband had blanks in his gun

She yearned for big dick
For her hole and to lick
Such a sad little Heartherington.

61 Jeanne,

What the hell do you care about pregnant Iraqi women? You just want to murder, by abortion, their babies anyway.

Carrying the 'White Man's Burden' in Iraq

Sen. Joe Lieberman (D?-CT) let slip another unspoken reason why we remain in Iraq more than two and a half years after achieving our stated goal of "disarming" Saddam Hussein.

Lieberman wrote that the Iraqis are on the brink of transitioning "from the primitive, killing tyranny of Saddam to modern, self-governing, self-securing nationhood." That is, "unless the great American military that has given them and us this unexpected opportunity is prematurely withdrawn."

It's noteworthy that Lieberman portrayed the old government as "primitive," despite the fact that we were talked into attacking Iraq because it had what President Bush called the "deadliest" weapons "known to mankind." They were, presumably, quite modern.

And that fits reality. Iraq under the Baathists was many things, but primitive wasn't one of them. Before two decades of infrastructure-smashing war, Iraq was considered to be as advanced as many countries in Western Europe. Its universities were the envy of the Arabic world, as was its health care system, which featured the most modern hospitals in the region.

Lieberman contrasts this "primitive" Iraq with the "modern" self-governance that the "great American military has given them."
------------------
Nice one Joe. Perpetuate the myth. Anyone who is not a white American is inferior and in need of our incompetent leaders' help. And while perpetuating the myth you are handing George Bush another dandy excuse for why we invaded Iraq. They were primitive. They needed our help.

TRH, I'm glad that hearing from President Cheney amuses you so. As I take my new grand jury and jam it sidewise up Karl Rove's arse, I find myself amused more and more by late nite humor.

"Morale is so bad at the White House that Dick Cheney has been giving pep talks. Yeah, you know it's bad when Dick Cheney is the most cheerful guy in the room."
--Conan O.

Ah, that Conan is one crazy MoFo. But he knows that President Cheney can go off the deep end.

"Insiders say that if Karl Rove resigns, President Bush will not function effectively. Wait a minute, all this time he's been functioning effectively?"
--David Letterman

Dave, he is the bomb-diggety. Cracks me up after a long day scaring the crap out of my fellow Republicans by issuing subpoenas.

"Bush is so exhausted by all these scandals that he is praying for another disaster like a flood or a hurricane so he can kick back and do nothing."
--Bill Maher

Yeah, as if W(idowmaker) needed a reason to "do nothing." Just watch him talk about the Iraq War. He yawns after every other sentence. The birdbrain has the attention span of a chipmunk.

"There are rumors circulating that because of the CIA leak investigation, Vice President Dick Cheney would resign and Condoleezza Rice will take his place. Due to the complex nature of the arrangement, it had to be explained to the President using puppets."
--Jay Leno

Oof. Jay slaaays me. Slays, I tell you. These late-nighters are almost as funny as Pandemoniac. I just might have to indict Karl Rove just to give Pandemoniac more props for his routine.

And TRH, what's with these idiot Bushbutts? As a fellow Republican, I just gotta ask: Is MibuVioValBenSelemRobJoseph retarded or what?

Wow, there are some truly sick people out there.
TRH, no, I do not compare abortion to the murder of actual, living humans that have a life and responsibilities right now. There is no comparison to imagined terrorists, as they are not real. Why do you insist on comparing a zygote to a 5 year old murdered by an American WMD? Is a 6 week old fetus really the equal to a 10 year old child? How do you make that judgment? Who are you to make that judgment? Is not the woman who aborts her child to stand trial, if there is a trial? Who will answer for the millions of alive, right now humans slaughtered in the name of greed and lies? What hypocrisy!

Jesus F**ken Christ --- Jeanne,

Even a guy who lives in a cave can buy a bomb.

wise up, moron

Golly gee! First President Chen um, I mean VP Cheney and now Mr. Fitzgerald! I will be brief sir, since I know you are very busy trying to repair all those leaks in the Capital. Could you please give me just a hint at who you are going after now? This administration is so secretive it is killing me to know what is really going on. I swear I will not share your information with anyone. As for that person with the long, funny looking name at the end of your post, I don't speak for them and never will. He/She/It can stand or fall on He/She/It's own.

Saladin,

AGAIN I ASK YOU.

You see no difference:

YOU are driving home from work, accidentally hit some kid on a bike, and the kid dies.

Are you saying that is no different than actually hunting down kids on bikes, and running them over on purpose.

OR, like American soldiers going after the child killers, and some one accidentally gets hit by a stray round, is no different than the suicide bomber blowing up a restaurant filled with civilians.

If you are implying any similitary, you are one sick little mixed up little chic.

Dear Patrick,
That's MibuVioValBenSelemRobJosephhoot. Just out of curiosity how would you question him if he was a witness? It must be hard when you have to deal with so many personalities, each with such limited capsity.

New AP poll 61% of those surveyed say torture is justified if used in rare occasions.

that'll change once people see video of american "interrogators" sodomizing little boys.

War on Christmas...what a joke. Send O'Reilly out into the mall and have him ask Americans about the economy.

#72
That's right. That's why I keep asking where the pictures and videos are.

Rita wrote:

"You see no difference:

YOU are driving home from work, accidentally hit some kid on a bike, and the kid dies.

Are you saying that is no different than actually hunting down kids on bikes, and running them over on purpose."

Hey Rita, can we say Moral Relativism!?!?

"I had recently been on Fox News trying to argue that there is no "war on Christmas"--despite what John Gibson, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly claim."

THANK YOU DAVID.

I heard today that Alito is pro-puppy in the War on Household Pets which is being prosecuted by those liberal gtoups ACLU and People for the American Way. Thank god Alito is here to make America safe once again for puppies and DAMN those bastards at the ALCU

Saladin,

The zygote you refer to happen to be my 4 sons which 1 was born at 30 weeks, 2 at 35 weeks (although my 14 year old started to come at 23 weeks) and the baby of them all was born at 38 weeks. They are all healthy, happy humans! Yet, had their mothers decided to abort them while on the delivery table, I could not have done one thing to stop it! Thank God, the mother of my first two and the mother of my last two did not believe in abortion or even the so called "partial birth abortion" which is nothing more than murder of an innocent life. Why do you think the pro-abortion lobby insists in inserting language in all abortion bills that "protect the life of the mother?" All a woman has to do is say, "I'll kill myself if I have this baby," and the next thing you know that baby has pair of scissors inserted into their skull and has it's brains sucked out. Roe v Wade started out with abortion on demand in the first trimester, medically necessary in the second and none in the third. Where does it end now?

All innocent lives lost are precious. Whether in war or through abortion. But with the advances of medicine, it is rare that any female is of high risk of dying or serious injury from childbirth. Therefore, it can only be concluded that the overwhelming majority of abortions are by choice. I know you are not accusing our soldiers of killing people on purpose. You may be accusing our government of doing that but what the hell? They fund abortions too!

Jesus F**ken Christ --- Jeanne,

Even a guy who lives in a cave can buy a bomb.

wise up, moron
------------------
Whoever is paying you is not going to be real happy with the language.

"NYT/CBS News poll just out shows Bush's approval rating improving markedly. Also Americans better attitude toward the economy." -Baf

How could it not improve? Is it still ion the 30's?

As a hopeful, glass half-full sort, I like hearing news that people in Afghanistan appreciate the sacrifice of our brave troops.

If W(uss) hadn't cut and run‚Ñ¢ , we might have even gotten the person allegedly responsible for killing over 2,000 of our fellow citizens (Osama). Ol' bumby-head Al-Zawahri has even released a new video telling other assholes that Osama is alive and well. Isn't that ironic how the big test case for the Patriot Act gets scrood by Chimpy's DOJ, and suddenly we get a video from bumpyhead reminding us why we need the Patriot Act to protect us from our own silly Civil Liberties.

If that weren't bad enough, Bill is getting Fristed and Arnold is getting punked.

As badly as things have gotten in Iraq, I think we all need to look back at the coward who set us on this cut and run‚Ñ¢ track. Back in the summer, he said:
"Things aren't getting better; they're getting worse. The White House is completely disconnected from reality, It's like they're just making it up as they go along. The reality is that we're losing in Iraq."

Why do those traitors in the Grand Ol' Torturin' Party love hurting the morale of our troops?

A little humor for my reactionary friends. Steven Colbert reports that a poll came out showing that if an election were to be held today Tommy Boy DeLay would get 43% of the vote against an "unnamed Democrat." But to be fair, those unnamed Dems tend to poll better than those "named Democrats." Ooh the truth can be a bitch sometimes.

"implying any similitary" (sic)

Similitary? OMFG. In a million years, doing my best George Bush, I could never come up with "similitary." That was a good one, dipshit, uh I mean "Rita." Hoot. Bushbutt. Whatever.

TRH, you don't have to speak for the ultramaroon, just evaluate . . . or have you become such a lefty pc pacifist that you don't want to make any waves on your side of the great divide? That'll happen to you if you hang around here too long. Remember most of us here are Libertarians or former-GOoPers that lost faith.

Time to check in on the Spurs.

Pandemoniac,

I don't want to comment because I have been accused of being all of them by a person who post's on this site. Even though I offered to have Mr. Corn's webmaster release all the posts from my IP address to this site to prove I wasn't. I will not comment on any of them, but the one accusing me of being them is a liar and does not want to discover the truth. Check out the last thread in case you missed it. I even offered a 2-1 bet and he wouldn't take me up on it. I'll even make it a $100.00 to $0.00 bet right now and he still would not take it. He has no stones.

Tim,
I think everybody here understands and respects your feelings about abortion. No one likes abortion.
You are a good father and are there for your kids. This issue obviously has personal impact for you because of your circumstances.
Many people involved in the pro choice movement want people to have access to good health care so they never need an abortion. That is their first goal.
Regardless, abortion will always be around whether you like it or not. If it becomes illegal the abortion for the wealthy will be safe and for those that can't afford it will be getting the abortion in a back alley. That's the reality. Abortions are not suddenly going to go away.
Now, either you keep abortion legal and safe or you ask women who are desperate to endure the back alley abortions.
I agree with you about the adoption system. That would be a good system. But realistically, abortion will always be there and it is more complicated an issue than pro lifers make it out to be. It there is going to be debate about it there has got to be honest debate.

TRH wrote:

Yet, had their mothers decided to abort them while on the delivery table, I could not have done one thing to stop it!

Lord knows, this happens so often. Not a day goes by that I don't hear about a mother aborting her baby on the delivery table as the broken-hearted father watches in horror.

Damn, but it drives some men crazy that they can't control a woman's uterus.

The Oregonian
Portland, OR
Wednesday, December 07, 2005
STAN BRADLY

Downtown Portland Polled

A sullen looking man, walking the downtown streets of downtown Portland Tuesday, looked very
unhappy. He was holding a newspaper with a story of captured peace workers in Iraq. I asked him
what he was doing, he said, "taking a poll". I replied, "what kind of poll". He told me an informative story about his day.

"I started at 8:00 AM". "I walk up next to someone, anyone, shake my head, point to the story of those poor folks captured in Iraq and say, we should do to them what they do to their captives". "I am sad to say, one hundred and five, out of one hundred and twenty people agreed with me".

"I was hoping more people didn't believe in torture". I have to say, "that is my hope too".

In Portland, known to be a very progressive city, I guess things aren't always what they appear to be.

It seems, when no one is looking, even progressive"s vote for torture eighty eighty percent of the time. A very sad day indeed.

TRH, I must admit, I thought it was you too. Difference is, I don't give a crap either way. I get my giggles, you (or whomever) get your giggles. This isn't the Amphitheatrum Flavium and we ain't gladiators. But if you're gonna run with the pack, you look silly pissing with the puppies.

I don't know if Capt. was calling you a liar as much as saying that you've earned the rep that you have. Your veracity is irrelevant in that regard. I believe I've said much worse about you, your children and even your wife (a while back).

I've emailed some of the regulars here pining for the old-time goobers like Gare, dblpat (mwah, luv ya'), BTKTImmie, Chuckie, badlambs, and even Pagliacci because they spotted the faulty logic and hypocrisy that I tended to overlook. Pagliacci even offered alternative policy choices that made sense once in a while.

They get bored and move on. We make new friends. In the end, Chimpy's still a gimp. Cheney's still a Billionaire. And the Dems don't have a lion in the den. That's my opinion and folks can take it or leave it. Most leave it. Que ser√°, ser√°.

Take it easy.

Jeanne,

You have that right. Abortion will always be around.

Don,

I didn't say that is happening all the time. But, I dare to show me one instance where if it did occur that it wouldn't be done. It does happen, that is why it is referred to as "partial birth abortion" because the baby is too far developed to be aborted the "usual way." Regarding your remark about controlling a woman's uterus, it is a pathetic and weak argument and totally void of reason. If my "wife" is pregnant with "our child" then you better believe I want to at least have a voice in the matter of "our child" being born. That is part of being a human and a parent. What is your excuse Don?

Pandemoniac,

I was even accused of posting as you! I know I read your posts and we sparred a time or two but 4 letters were a lot easier to type than 11. I enjoy your sense of humor. I was also accused of posting as Saladin. I knew Saladin from another site thru Hajji before I ever came here. We have our agreements and disagreements and we are both passionate in our beliefs but I respect her too much as a person to ever do something like that to her. The person who accused me of this is a liar, he knows he is a liar, because he keeps accusing me of it.

Now I find out that even you, you thought it was me. I'm reminded of that line in Naked Gun when Drummond congratulates partener on his wife's announcement that she is going to have a baby and his response was "Yes, and if I ever catch the SOB who did...

You take care also, Pandemoniac.

Yet, had their mothers decided to abort them while on the delivery table, I could not have done one thing to stop it!

If my "wife" is pregnant with "our child" then you better believe I want to at least have a voice in the matter of "our child" being born.

Oh, oh...TRH is revealing a lot about himself with these two comments.

But, this isn't my fight, so I'll leave it at that.

TRH wrote:

But, I dare to show me one instance where if it did occur that it wouldn't be done.

Huh?

It does happen, that is why it is referred to as "partial birth abortion"

Well, partial birth abortion has happened, yes. My understanding (admittedly limited) is that this is a very rare procedure used when a woman's life is endangered by the pregnancy. But the scenario you paint? The one where the doctors hold the screaming husband back as his wife surprises him with the decision to have an abortion as she is delivering? I don't think that's ever happened. Feel free to present such a case if you have one, though.

If my "wife" is pregnant with "our child" then you better believe I want to at least have a voice in the matter of "our child" being born.

First of all, I don't believe that a fetus is the same thing as a child. Secondly, the strong sense of ownership in your statement is revealing. The woman may very well be "your" wife, but it's still her uterus.

That is part of being a human and a parent. What is your excuse Don?

My excuse for what? Are you saying that disagreeing with you makes me less than human, or incapable of being a parent? More clarity, please.

Ah, micki, you stole my thunder in #88 as I was writing #89. Great minds think alike, right?

Micki,

It shouldn't be a fight to begin with. Do you not think that it only makes sense that the father of a child who is married to the mother of that child should have a voice in saying whether that child is born or not? That is all I am saying re Don's post. As the law reads now, I don't have even that right. I don't even want to think about the control of all women's uterus. There's not enough time in the day. Marriage is a partnership after all, in all matters.

Well, well, well...

I see that I can't go to work for a couple of 16 hour back-to-back days without this house lookin' like a T-5 an F-5 and a 9.5 Richter hit all at once!

Y'all just LOOK at yourselves! Allowing the Troll(s) to get to you like that! Shame!

The troll(s) have been given the address to visit, anytime, if they ever want to be taken seriously...but still, no visits...sigh....

Ah well...

TRH, I know it isn't gonna change anything to get into an "abortion as a valid choice" for a woman, but you know as well as I do that if anybody's wife, girlfriend, daughter or sister decide at any point in their pregnancy that the child will not be born, then it ain't gonna happen whether the law says it has to or not.

That's what is meant by them having the ultimate control. It doesn't TAKE a doctor to end a pregnancy. It doesn't HAVE to be sterile. It doesn't HAVE to involve psychological and medical counseling.

And it won't, if the legal medical option is taken away. Unless, of course, if it becomes legal to strap a woman down, forcing her to become a human incubator, against her will for several months!

I know it doesn't reflect your passionate views on the subject, but that is the reality of the situation.

Now y'all ignore the troll(s) and play nice! I'll let you all know if one or any of 'em ever grow a pair big enough to show their face!

good night and good luck!

-T

I don't think I need to say which posts were not mine, btw!

Carry on!

(oh, how we DO carry on!)

I know it isn't gonna change anything to get into an "abortion as a