David Corn Online
 

December 28, 2005

A Very Late Enron Trial

Today's news that Richard Causey, once Enron's chief accountant, will plead guilty and testify against Kenneth Lay, the onetime pal of George W. Bush, and Jeffrey Skilling, is a reminder of how long it has taken the Bush administration's Justice Department to bring a case against Lay and Skilling. The trial is set to start January 17. The case is, no doubt, complicated, but suspicious minds can wonder why the feds have needed this much time to prosecute the corporate exec closest to Bush. As The Washington Post noted, Lay and Skilling

are the last and among the most eminent corporate executives to face trial in an era of scandal dating to the 1990s.

Is Bush lucky--or just quite good at putting off bad news? Think of all the issues that might have come up before the November 2004 election: the Libby indictment, Bush's order allowing the National Security Agency to snoop on Americans without warrants, the Lay trial. I'm not saying any of this would have made a difference in the final tally of the close 2004 election. But had all this hit prior to E Day, the Rove machine might have encountered a few inconvenient speedbumps.

The Lay trial now may well have little political consequence for Bush. More important for him and the GOP is the scheduled trial of GOP lobbyist Jack Abramoff, set for January 9. Recent news reports have said that Abramoff is close to cutting a deal with prosecutors. What sort of deal might that be? I'm guessing that any prosecutor worth his or her salt would not grant Abramoff slack unless Abramoff could serve up on a platter several members of Congress and/or a collection of high-profile Republicans. The feds already seem to have a case against Representative Bob Ney. So who else could Abramoff roll over on? Tom DeLay? Grover Norquist? Ralph Reed? Republicans ought to be biting their nails. If there is no trial of Abramoff in Janaury, that will mean hunting season on other GOPers is wide open. A question: what will come out before the congressional elections of 2006?

And while we're pondering slow investigations, let's recall that the anthrax inquiry appears deader than dead. Can you imagine how conservatives would have howled if the Clinton administration had failed to discover who had tried to kill members of the opposition party by anthrax? Democrats, hello? Don't you think you should be pressuring the White House a bit more on this? How about a hearing? Or even a press conference?

I'm still traveling, so that's it for now. Discuss (politely, as always) the above and more among yourselves.

Posted by David Corn at December 28, 2005 08:04 AM

Comments

1

Good morning Mr. Corn! It appears that we both keep a fairly regular daily routine!

I agree w/your questioning of the Enron situation, having lost some money speculating on it when its stock collapsed to $10/share. Conducted properly and without hyperboles, the outcome is good for the country and for capitalism.

WSJ, my main source of national/global issues, has two excellent articles this morning. One concerns "FISA vs. the Constitution", Page A14, that is relevant to us all. On the same page, there is a short article "Prejudice" that will open some eyes among the more intelligent of the Left!

Posted by: Happy at December 28, 2005 09:28 AM

2

Comment #124 by Pande @ 12:52 AM Today - Trust the (Iraqui) People

Your words: "...I'd like to extend an olive branch..."

How long did it last? did I get a chance to respond before your blast of Comment #145 less than 4 hours later?

I rest my case! You double standard, holier- than-thou Cornnut!

Posted by: Happy at December 28, 2005 10:13 AM

3

Corn People:

Per David:

Discuss (politely, as always) the above and more among yourselves.

NOTICE the word "above"? You want to post links, fine, make it fit the subject matter of David's "above" posting. When new/semi-regular visitors come, it is because of subject matter! If such readers are intersted further, they can follow relevant links! You don't need to paste in contents of link! Your comments should be limited to subject matter! Damn, you Cornuts take too much time to teach!

Posted by: Happy at December 28, 2005 10:18 AM

4

Mr. David Corn,

Come on now, we all know Bunnypants could not have pulled it off without the help and support of a lap-dog MSM.

The MSM have not fallen down on their job, they just do not do their job. When the NYT's holds stories for the Coward in Crawford for a year or years they are working for him, not us. The fact they still have subscribers that will but their worthless rag is perplexing.


Thanks for all of your work.

Kirk

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 10:41 AM

5

'Inversion' in Bond Rates Hits Stocks


The yield on the 10-year Treasury note drops to a level at or below those of shorter-term securities, in what may foreshadow an economic slump.


By Tom Petruno
Times Staff Writer

December 28, 2005

Blue-chip stocks on Tuesday suffered their steepest decline in two months, as falling long-term Treasury bond yields flashed a classic warning sign of a weaker economy ahead.

Holiday retail sales reports also left some investors unimpressed.

The Dow Jones industrial average gave up a 50-point rally early in the day to end down 105.50 points, or 1%, at 10,777.77. It was the Dow's worst one-day slump since Oct. 27 and pushed the widely watched index back into the red for the year.

Broader gauges also were down sharply, dashing hopes for the traditional "Santa Claus rally" in the final week of the year.

What worried some investors and traders Tuesday was a relatively rare occurrence in the bond market: The yield, or interest rate, on the bellwether 10-year Treasury note declined to a level that equaled or was slightly below yields on shorter-term Treasury securities.

Normally, longer-term bonds pay more than shorter-term issues to compensate investors for the risk of tying up their money for an extended period.

When long- and short-term interest rates converge, it often is a sign that bond investors believe the economy will slow Ñ so they're locking in long-term yields in anticipation that rates overall soon will level off or even head lower.

"We should be worried" about the economy, said Michael Cheah, who manages $2 billion in bond assets at AIG SunAmerica Asset Management in Jersey City, N.J.

*****end of clip*****

The indicator of inversion is the result of recession. The "news" and the "analysts" are soft-selling the numbers and back-peddling the facts.


capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 10:58 AM

6

Enron and Bill Clinton
Charles R. Smith

Lovers of ex-President Bill Clinton will be overjoyed to find that Enron's top exec Ken Lay did not stay at the White House 11 times.

However, the bad news for those who still worship Mr. Clinton is that Enron not only donated $100,000 to Clinton's 1993 inauguration but, according to the records, also added an additional $25,000 to the Clinton 1993 celebrations.

The documented evidence shows that Enron did make it into the Clinton White House by special invitation. Senior Vice President Terrance H. Thorn had coffee with Bill Clinton on March 5, 1996.

Many of the other attendees of the Clinton White House coffee sessions also make up a long list of convicted criminals, arms dealers and bagmen for illegal DNC contributions.

For example, Wang Jun had coffee with Clinton in 1996. Wang is also the president of Poly Technologies, the largest arms trading firm owned by the People's Liberation Army. Poly Tech is currently banned from doing business in the United States after several of its top executives conspired to smuggle machine guns into the U.S. for sale to a major drug dealer Рwho later turned out to be a Customs agent posing as a gangster.

Charlie "Yah Lin" Trie, who was later convicted of illegally passing hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Clinton/Gore re-election campaign, brought Wang into the White House. Trie also gave an additional $645,000 to the Democratic National Committee, and most of this money was from illegal foreign sources.

Trip to Russia

Enron's association with the Clinton White House comes even closer to home when you consider the many corporate foreign trade trips paid for by your tax dollars. In 1994, Enron's CEO Ken Lay surfaced on a list of attendees wishing to travel to Russia with Ron Brown.

One person who did make the trade trip to Russia was Roger Tamraz. Interpol then wanted Tamraz, a Lebanese oil financier, for embezzling nearly $80 million from a Middle Eastern bank. Tamraz, who made most of his money selling Libyan oil, would later give more than $300,000 to the DNC after having coffee with Bill Clinton in the White House.

Russia was not the only target of Enron wheeling-and-dealing with the Clinton administration. Enron execs traveled on a profitable trade trip to India with Ron Brown, landing a major contract for a power plant. The India power plant deal later fell apart with allegations of illegal payments and bribery.

Trip to Bosnia

Enron also traveled in 1997 to Bosnia with Commerce Secretary Kantor in hopes of landing a U.S. taxpayer-backed energy deal in the war-torn state. According to the Chicago Tribune, Enron made a $100,000 donation to the DNC just days prior to the trade mission to the former Yugoslav province. Commerce Department documents clearly note that Enron was interested in the "Zagreb" portion of the trip.

Even in the last days of Bill Clinton, Enron execs were on the go. Enron traveled to South Korea with Commerce Secretary William Daley in 1999. Daley would go on to run Vice President Al Gore's failed bid for the White House in 2000.

Trip to Indonesia

The most damning evidence linking Bill Clinton and Enron to corruption is the documentation that shows Enron received U.S. taxpayer monies in order to finance a corrupt deal with Indonesia.

P.T. East Java Power Corp., which was then 50.1 percent owned by Enron, wanted to conclude a deal for a 500 megawatt power plant in East Java, Indonesia. The 20-year deal was later signed by Enron with P.T. PLN Persero (PLN), Indonesia's state-owned electric utility, which agreed to purchase the power from the natural-gas-fired plant.

According to Enron, the natural gas for the project was to be provided by Pertamina, Indonesia's state-owned oil and gas company. Commerce Department documents noted that Pertamina stalled the project with excessive demands for gas prices.

"Enron is now engaged with Pertamina over access to natural gas. These discussions may prove difficult," states a 1994 Commerce Department advocacy document.

"Enron is registered for OPIC (Overseas Private Investment Corporation) insurance," states the document, noting that the giant corporation obtained U.S. taxpayer-backed insurance if the Indonesian deal fell apart.

Ron Brown Letters for Enron

Ron Brown personally sought approval for the Enron electric power plants inside Indonesia. According to a personal letter directed to the Indonesian Minister for Trade and Industry, Brown endorsed two Enron deals for gas-fired power plants with the corrupt Suharto regime.

"Enron power, a world renowned private power developer, is in the final stages of negotiating two combined cycle, gas turbine power projects," wrote Brown in his 1995 letter.

"The first, a 500 MW plant in East Java, should bring commercial power generation by the end of 1997 if it can promptly negotiate a gas supply Memorandum of Understanding with Pertamina. The other project, a smaller plant in East Kalimantan, also awaits a gas supply agreement.

"I urge you to give full consideration to the proposals," concluded Brown to the Indonesian minister. In October 1995, Brown wrote another letter, this time to Hartarto Sastrosurarto, Indonesia's Coordinating Minister for Trade and Industry, pressing him to conclude the Enron power plant deals.

"I would like to bring to your attention a number of projects involving American companies which seem to be stalled, including several independent power projects. These projects include the Tarahan power project, which involves Southern Electric; the gas powered projects in East Java and East Kalimantan, which involves Enron," wrote Brown.

"Your support for prompt resolution of the remaining issues associated with each of these projects would be most appreciated," concluded Brown.

On Nov. 18, 1996, Enron CEO Ken Lay announced that the deal with Suharto was complete. According to Enron's public statement, the U.S.-led energy company had finally won the East Java Power project.

Corruption, Collusion and Nepotism

Yet the Enron success was clouded by allegations that the power plant deals were filled with kickbacks for the Suharto family. In October 1998, U.S. Ambassador J. Stapleton Roy wrote a diplomatic cable that he had recently met with Indonesian Director General of Electricity Endro Utomo Notodisoerjo.

"Commenting on corruption, collusion and nepotism (KKN), Endro said that in the past there was no separation between 'power' (not electric but former first family power) and business. 'All the IPP's (Independent Power Projects) have a relation with power, and it is still going on,' added Endro."

According to State Department documents, Enron signed on to a deal filled with "corruption, collusion and nepotism." One State Department cable included an entire section titled "Dealing with unwanted partners" that detailed corruption inside the two Enron power plants at East Kalimantan and East Java.

"Unocal executives told resources officer that the firm is close to reaching a deal with its partner, PT Nusamba (controlled by former President Soeharto crony Bob Hasan) to sever ties in two production sharing contracts (PSC) in East Kalimantan and East Java," notes the State Department cable.

Eventually, the Indonesian economy collapsed and Suharto was overthrown. The resulting economic mess forced Indonesia to default on its payments for the Enron power plants. The U.S. taxpayer using its insurance, however, paid off Enron. One such policy for Enron was obtained through the World Bank Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency or MIGA.

"In June of this year, MIGA paid $15 million to Enron Java Power Co. for its investment in P.T. East Java Power Corporation in Indonesia," states the 2000 official public release from the World Bank.

"The venture was one of many suspended by the presidential decree of September 20, 1997, issued in response to the country's economic crisis," noted MIGA officials.

David, did you write about these connections, also?

CharlieD

Posted by: CharlieD at December 28, 2005 11:01 AM

7

I submit that Abramoff is only the tip of the lobbyist iceberg. The timidity of the Dems to persue the major issues facing us is most likely due to they themselves beholding to their own lobbyists as well. Abramoff narcing on his fellow leeches will no doubt occur, but why give the sucker a lesser charge to do so. He has not proven he is worth a single ounce of mercy from anyone except his God if he has one, which is highly doubfull.

Posted by: DEN at December 28, 2005 11:04 AM

8

"The law is king"

The notion of absolute executive power has a venerable history, but it lacks an American pedigree.


By Sidney Blumenthal

Dec. 22, 2005 | President Bush's explanations of why he is justified in ordering domestic surveillance by the National Security Agency have shifted with every news cycle. He has sent out Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to bolster his justifications. (Rice averred that she was "not a lawyer" before repeating the talking points.) Bush personally tried to suppress disclosure by the New York Times, which had held the story for more than a year before breaking it, by summoning Times publisher Arthur Sulzberger and editor Bill Keller to the Oval Office on Dec. 6.

Bush invokes national security, the war on terror, and Sept. 11 as though these phrases are enabling legislation. He has offered no sound legal basis for his evasion of the Federal Intelligence Surveillance Act, his dismissal of Congress, and his abrogation of the Fourth Amendment. He has not presented any convincing reason why he decided not to seek warrants from the special FISA court set up for that purpose. One of the 11 members of the secret FISA court, U.S. District Court Judge James Robertson, has quit in protest.

Bush claims to have briefed and received the approval of congressional leaders. But former Sen. Bob Graham, D-Fla., who was chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee when Bush began his spying, said, "There was no reference made to the fact that we were going to ... begin unwarranted, illegal, and I think unconstitutional, eavesdropping on American citizens." After being informed of the president's actions in 2003, Sen. Jay Rockefeller, the ranking Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, sent a handwritten note expressing his misgivings to Vice President Dick Cheney, who had briefed him. "Clearly, the activities we discussed raise profound oversight issues," he wrote. (Rockefeller's position on the Intelligence Committee kept him from making public what he knew.) The Republican chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Arlen Specter, has announced his disquiet and is planning to hold hearings.

*****end of clip*****

I swear, the more I read from Mr. Sidney Blumenthal, the more I like what he writes. He is no David Corn but he is pretty good.

capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 11:07 AM

9

I, for one, appreciate the snippets of articles that many post as I do not usually have the time to follow all the links and read the articles in full. It is a convenient way to quickly peruse many diverse items and issues in one handy location.

It that feels otherwise is encouraged to endulge its self absorption elsewhere. If it does not put the lotion on, it will get the hose.

Posted by: Robb at December 28, 2005 11:20 AM

10

Lets see a show of hands from those that want the super troll to start his own blog since he's so displeased with the posters on this one.

Posted by: DEN at December 28, 2005 11:29 AM

11

Diplomacy, NeoCondi Style!

___________

NSA Spied on U.N. Diplomats in Push for Invasion of Iraq
by Norman Solomon

Despite all the news accounts and punditry since the New York Times published its Dec. 16 bombshell about the National Security Agency's domestic spying, the media coverage has made virtually no mention of the fact that the Bush administration used the NSA to spy on U.N. diplomats in New York before the invasion of Iraq.

That spying had nothing to do with protecting the United States from a terrorist attack. The entire purpose of the NSA surveillance was to help the White House gain leverage, by whatever means possible, for a resolution in the U.N. Security Council to green light an invasion. When that surveillance was exposed nearly three years ago, the mainstream U.S. media winked at Bush's illegal use of the NSA for his Iraq invasion agenda.
______________


I AM THE LAW!!!


Posted by: Hajji at December 28, 2005 11:29 AM

12

....When that surveillance was exposed nearly three years ago, the mainstream U.S. media winked at Bush's illegal use of the NSA for his Iraq invasion agenda....

Worth repeating.

There is no reason to believe any of what you read in the mainstream. Editors/Owners burying stories for years, reporters raking in money to report "favorable" stories... There needs to be a declaration by the people of America that we'll not stand for such from our press.

The courts have ruled that there's nothing illegal about broadcasting/printing stories known to be lies, provided there's no liable or slander involved.

Do we change the laws to better hold media accountable? Is it better to just let MSM die in the fetid pool of filth that it has created for itself?

=T

Posted by: Hajji at December 28, 2005 11:38 AM

13

"let MSM die in the fetid pool of filth that it has created for itself"

They are already dead to me, they just refuse to report about it.

HA!


capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 11:41 AM

14

Good morning David and other Cornbloggers.

The Enron scandal is an abstract concept to most people on the ground, though it shades the portrait of big money and back room dealings.

Just to remind folks that Enron and others dealings affects people on the ground. When corporations like Enron go afoul what hits home are loss of jobs, investments (hope for a stable future), retirement plans and grant notes.

But scrutiny is limited by lack of transparancy. Is it just the risk we all take when swimming with the sharks?

Thanks for the opportunity to participate on your blog.

later,
th

Posted by: th at December 28, 2005 11:46 AM

15

Wiretap challenges threaten US terrorist cases

Defence lawyers in some of the biggest terrorism cases in the US plan to bring legal challenges to determine whether the National Security Agency used illegal wiretaps against several dozen Muslim men allegedly linked to al-Qaeda.

The lawyers said they wanted to learn whether the men were monitored by the agency and, if so, whether the Government withheld critical information or misled judges and defence lawyers about how and why the men were targeted for investigation.

The expected legal challenges add another dimension to the growing controversy over the agency's domestic surveillance program and could jeopardise some of the Bush Administration's most important courtroom victories in terrorist cases, legal analysts say.

The question of whether the NSA program was used in criminal prosecutions and whether it improperly influenced them raises "fascinating and difficult questions", said Carl Tobias, a law professor at the University of Richmond who has studied terrorism prosecutions.

"It seems to me that it would be relevant to a person's case," Professor Tobias said.

*****end of clip*****

Talk about giving aid and comfort to the enemy? Bunnypants has given the "terroristsssss" a "get-out-of-jail-free" by breaking the laws he swore to uphold and protect.

Time for impeachment.

capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 11:49 AM

16

Katrina fund scam uncovered

WASHINGTON: Nearly 50 people have been indicted in connection with a scam that milked hundreds of thousands of dollars from a Red Cross program that gave cash to Hurricane Katrina victims, US federal authorities say.

Seventeen of the accused worked at the Red Cross claim centre in Bakersfield, California which handled calls from storm victims and authorised cash payments to them. The others charged are the workers' relatives and friends, prosecutors said last week. The scam came to light when Red Cross officials noticed a suspiciously high number of people were picking up Red Cross money at Western Union outlets near the Bakersfield centre, even though few evacuees were in the area.

Forty-nine people in the Bakersfield area have been indicted in the past three months for filing false claims with the centre and more are expected.

Meanwhile, mental health professionals say New Orleans appears to be experiencing a sharp increase in suicides in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, with interviews and statistics suggesting the rate is now double or more the national and local averages.

At least seven people have killed themselves in the four months since the storm.

Stevenson Palfi, 53, a well-known local filmmaker in the area, was apparently the latest to take his own life.

Palfi's house had taken about three metres of water, and he was in despair over losing years of files and photographs. The aftermath of the storm pushed him "right off the cliff emotionally", said a friend, Mary Aldin.

*****end of clip*****

The slugs and thugs take any opportunity to screw people over for fun and profit.


capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 11:57 AM

17

Seems to me that "personal honor" has been cast off in favor of "personal wealth".

Posted by: DEN at December 28, 2005 12:09 PM

18

It's good to be King George


Tuesday, December 27, 2005

By Reg Henry

As I was saying to a fellow peasant just the other day, it is ironic that this country should rebel against one King George only to bow down before another monarch of the same name more than 200 years later.

That our own King George -- he of the House of Bush -- is truly of royal blood has become clear in recent days with the announcement that he has empowered the National Security Agency to spy on whomsoever and whatsoever it wishes under royal decree.

Happily for him if not his subjects, this cannot be challenged by the picky laws and constitutional concerns that rule us poor common folk. It cannot be challenged because he says so, which is the traditional way of kings.

Previously, before His Majesty assumed his sovereign powers, the president -- as he was then quaintly known -- had to go to a secret court if he wanted permission for his agents to snoop on enemies within the realm. The esteemed judges of this court would take out their official rubber stamp, and the matter would be handled satisfactorily for all concerned except for the knaves and scoundrels, hopefully not all of them Democrats.

Although a rubber stamp administered in secret was about the same covering for civil liberties as a lace pasty applied to an exotic dancer, the common people nevertheless rested easily, because a genuflection had been made to their beloved Constitution.

But kings do not bow down before anyone or anything. It is for us, the commoners, to prostrate ourselves before their highnesses. Thus did King George decree that it was too risky for the security of his kingdom to rely on a rubber stamp, which, after all, might wear out.

Moreover, it was insulting for his agents to be kept waiting while the judges came in from the golf course.

So he reasoned that, as he was fighting a war, one that conveniently for him was never going to end, he could do anything he liked because he was the king, or the commander in chief in the old manner of speaking. Laws, shmaws -- what were they to one so noble?

Now everything is changed. Faith-based policies have rediscovered the divine right of kings. I hope the royal court realizes that I am writing this in the groveling position like the uncouth but humble person that I am.

To show my fealty, I tug my forelock in the old ritual of subservience except that I haven't got a forelock, as a result of male pattern baldness, and therefore, as a substitute, I tug my back mullet-lock in all honor and obedience.

I pray King George for his gentle forbearance because he has said that even discussing his new royal powers may aid the enemy. Of course, the last thing I wish to do is aid the enemy. It's just that the old habit of free speech dies hard.

Now that King George has enthroned himself, it is only right that he assume the other trappings of monarchy. May I, his lowly and worthless servant, suggest a coat of arms? Perhaps a church built on the ruins of the wall of separation between church and state. Maybe lobbyists rampant on a field of money.

His Majesty also needs royal titles tailored to the American context. It is my honor to suggest the following, which I hope the NSA will record to my credit ...

Henceforth, throughout the land, let him be proclaimed as His Royal Texas-ship, Defender of the Faith, Interpreter of the Constitution, Protector of the SUVs, Guardian of the Malls, Warrior King, Scourge of the Liberals, Bane of the Activist Judges, His Most High Majesty and Most Excellent King George W. the First of Many.

We beseech you, your kingship, to institute a system of hereditary peerage based upon merit and loyalty (i.e., campaign contributions) so that we peasants will have someone to look up to other than the tawdry celebrities on TV. Sir Rush of Bloviation, Sir Karl of Spin, these will be names to conjure with in the future days of dynasty. Perhaps, as a goodwill gesture, you could name Bill Clinton as a knight of the garter belt.

Please, sire, forgive us our petulant Bush-bashing of former days before we realized you wore a crown. Spy on us as much as you want because we understand now that your knowledge of the Constitution is infinitely greater than our own.

Indeed, it is good to be the king, at least for the king.

*****end of clip*****

The king has lied, long lie the king.


capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 12:12 PM

19

Bush Elected President Of Iraq

BAGHDADÑIn a vast outpouring of gratitude to the man they call "Our Great Savior From The West," the people of Iraq flooded the polls during yesterday's first free elections, voting overwhelmingly for President George W. Bush as their first democratically elected leader.

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 12:26 PM

20

#4 Kirk or capt

You say: (I/Happy)....could not have pulled it off without the help and support of a lap-dog MSM.

Am working out of my office today & thought I checkup on your `rude' awakenings this morning!

Other than being a long-time Republican, I have no ties, now or in the past, to any political organizations. Mr. Corn is welcome to chat me up in private & then calm you paranoids.

You, on the other hand, plus at least half the "Regulars", outside of being Dems, are almost certainly connected with some Lefty organizations. I have NO doubt some of you are paid to spend the ungodly amount of time you (all) do on this site, cluttering it up!

One of the few things you are right about is that I am not your average "troll"! "Super troll" is what one of you calls me after cursing at her computer screen w/my every appearance. By the way, that made me laugh! Thanks!

The other thing ALL of you have it right (about yourself) is your "can't-change" snobbish way of underestimating all trolls; especially me, Happy. But, if that snobbish way....(music) if it makes you happy...Great... Do it privately. Here in this public forum, all that you show is to reinforce what Rushbo & Hannity stereotype all libs to be.

Posted by: Happy at December 28, 2005 12:27 PM

21

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Depleted Uranium


by Kit Smith

The recent film Jarhead exposes many elements unique to the first war in the Persian Gulf: The dysfunctional dichotomy of a soldier being aggressively primed for a "war" in which he never gets to fight, the frustration of spending months waiting in the desert, the psychosis-inducing dilemma of an indoctrinated sniper never able to shoot his rifle, andÑ resultant from being drunk at Xmas in the desert heatÑthe wearing of only an AK47 and a strategically placed Santa hat. Some consequences of the Kuwaiti oil fields being lit aflame by retreating Iraqi soldiers are portrayed in the film. One thing not addressed in the film and only alluded to in the book is the use of depleted uranium and the seemingly resultant "Gulf War Syndrome."

Depleted Uranium (DU) is a waste product of the processes by which enriched uranium is separated from natural uranium, as used in the manufacture of nuclear weapons and to produce fuel for nuclear reactors. It is provided free of charge to defense contractors by nuclear power plants, eager to eschew the high costs of storing it in nuclear waste sites, a win-win situation for both industries. DU is a pyrophoric metal, meaning it combusts spontaneously when exposed to air, and it has a density nearly 1.7 times that of lead. This combination of density and flammability grants this material enormous value as armor-piercing ammunition. Heavy, flaming bullets and kinetic energy penetrators (rods of solid metal shot from guns)burn through the tanks somewhat like a blowtorch causing injury, damage and secondary fires. DU makes for great weapons. The often-overlooked downside of using such a metal is that itÕs RADIOACTIVE.

It might seem obvious to the average citizen that radioactive =bad . That leaving behind fields full of these shells and shrapnel or the resultant dust might effectively destroy an ecosystem for generations to come. That, as stated by former U. S. nuclear weapons laboratory employee and international DU expert Leuren Moret, "Living in a radioactive environment with chronic exposure to low levels of in contaminated areas will slowly be destroyed. Genetic defects will be passed to future generations who will also be exposed to new sources of radiation from contaminated air, water and food. The depleted uranium dust will cycle through the environment and travel throughout larger regions, carried on the atmospheric dusts which travel around the earth."

*****end of clip*****

Go to the linked page, the photo is worth the trip!


capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 12:32 PM

22

P.S. to #20

All of you regular LEFTY Corn posters, except perhaps one or two, have earned that coveted "I---t" name that I usually reserve for my own family in fits of raving & ranting! Enjoy it!

Posted by: Happy at December 28, 2005 12:32 PM

23

Who the FiretrUCK is this new troll, coming to a blog that is a home for the ideological opposition and whining non-stop about how things are run? Pande, you gotta love how he derides your language but can't counter your debunking of his posts' content, and how he thinks just because his insults don't use vulgar words he is more civil.

Damn, you Cornuts take too much time to teach!

Then again, didn't one of the founding members of the DOT at one point claim he was here to teach us?...

Posted by: eyes_open at December 28, 2005 12:35 PM

24


side note....

when bush arrived in d.c. for his first inaugural...

he was flown into town on an enron jet...

Posted by: thisspaceavailable at December 28, 2005 12:36 PM

25

Bush on the bottle (.WMV)

Drunk, sober or just a stupid lying jerk? Watch the video and you decide.

capt

PS - Bush used the Enron jet many times as did the other Taxes . . I mean Texas wannabe cowboy mafia. Birds of a feather. . .

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 12:42 PM

26

#10
my hand is up for that one

Posted by: James Ha at December 28, 2005 12:43 PM

27

#23 eyes_open

Are they open, really? How can anyone tell? David's blog requires no registration, does that mean anything to you? Is it possible that he wants to encourage intelligent multi-party discussions? You earn an instant "I---t" title!

Posted by: Happy at December 28, 2005 12:44 PM

28

By the way, a must see movie right now is Fun With Dick and Jane. It is of course a fictional comedy but it deals with the very real effects the corporate scandals have had on average families. The ending also ties the movie directly in with David Corn's post but I don't want to give it away.

Posted by: eyes_open at December 28, 2005 12:47 PM

29

a funny thing happened on the way to the anthrax investigation....

The FBI Anthrax Attacks Cover-Up

For the newcomers; the anthrax used in the letters was genetically identical to a strain maintained at US bioweapons labs at Fort Detrick. The anthrax used in the letters was also "weaponized", consistent with manufacture in a full level-four weapons laboratory. Such labs also have the hot-boxes needed to insert the anthrax into letters without exposing the perpetrator.

It should come as no surprise that the FBI, in its total focus on Stephen Hatfill, has totally ignored (or is covering up for) another suspect, one actually caught on the security systems entering the storage area where the anthrax used in the letters was kept, without proper authorization and AFTER being fired from his job at Fort Detrick over a racially motivated attack on an Egyptian co-worker. This suspect's name is Dr. Philip Zack, who has since relocated to Dugway Proving Grounds.

Posted by: James Ha at December 28, 2005 12:49 PM

30

Bush's Secret Surveillance State


by Anthony Gregory


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. ~ The Fourth Amendment

"[B]y the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires Рa wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so. It's important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution." ~ President George W. Bush, April 20, 2004


The Bush administration appears to consider public knowledge of its illegal surveillance of American citizens to be more dangerous than the surveillance itself.

On December 16, 2005, the New York Times reported that President Bush has been secretly ordering the National Security Agency to spy on American citizens within the United States without first getting judicially issued warrants. Asked repeatedly about the controversy during an interview with Jim Lehrer on the day the story broke, Bush evaded the questions. He responded, "We donմ talk about sources and methods. Donմ talk about ongoing intelligence operations. I know thereճ speculation. But itճ important for the American people to understand that we will do Рor I will use my powers to protect us, and I will do so under the law, and thatճ important for our citizens to understand."

*****end of clip*****

No wonder most conservatives have had enough of the Bush agenda, all but the most mindless blind followers.

capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 12:49 PM

31

Eye's

Will take a matinee today!

Thanks for the recommendation.


capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 12:51 PM

32

#10 & #26

What's matter? Super Troll is beating up on you and you gotta go get mommy?

Posted by: Happy at December 28, 2005 12:52 PM

33

Now either the FBI is very stupid, or they are protecting the real criminal. Why? It cannot be because the letters included with the anthrax, written to appear to be from Muslims, prove a plot to frame Muslims for terror attacks on the US, because this is equally true if Hatfill is the culprit. So, given the Israeli spies uncovered in the Pentagon (and elsewhere), Zack may well be protected because to expose him would expose that Israel also has their spies deep inside our nation's biological warfare laboratories. And as the anthrax letters prove, they are not shy about taking and using those materials for their own purposes.

Posted by: James Ha at December 28, 2005 12:54 PM

34

Anyway the rain here today means I got outside work to do...so off to Eastern Kentucky...where when a man tells you he loves you like a sister...
...well, you get the idea.

Forecast for today...partly troll-droppings, more droppings this evening...droppings most of the night.

Fortunately I just put new wipers and troll-dropping tires on the Jeep, so I'm ready to roll!

-T

Posted by: Hajji at December 28, 2005 12:57 PM

35

#34

Pity, all it takes is my ...troll-droppings, more droppings this evening...droppings most of the night. to get you libs all feeling self-pity!

Posted by: Happy at December 28, 2005 01:01 PM

36

Breakthrough may be close in anthrax probe


January 21, 2002 Posted: 9:40 PM EST (0240 GMT)


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Investigators appear to be on the verge of cracking the genetic sequencing of the anthrax strain that has killed five Americans since the fall, a source close to the federal investigation said.

An announcement on the breakthrough could be made this week. The FBI and the U.S. Postal Service have been trying to locate the person or group that began sending anthrax-laced letters through the mail in mid-September to Senate offices in Washington and media outlets in New York and Florida.

Two of the five people who died from inhalation anthrax were postal employees.

All the deaths were traced to the Ames strain of the bacteria, first isolated in Iowa and maintained by the U.S. Army since 1980 for testing purposes. The CIA also uses small amounts of the strain for research.

*****end of clip*****

Seems pretty obvious to me.

capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 01:01 PM

37

Hajji, where can you get those tires? The streets here in TX are always slick. Hopefully they aren't that expensive though. I drive an 88 Blazer S10 but I'm on the waiting list for an 06 Prius.

Posted by: eyes_open at December 28, 2005 01:02 PM

38

eyes,

I got mine at "Trolls Be Us'N Shit". They've got a great "Bushco's Roof, the Roof, the Roof is on FIRE sale!"

-T

Posted by: Hajji at December 28, 2005 01:05 PM

39

Uber Happy has struck again. It's not hard to scroll past his posts since I need Pande's interpretation to figure out what they say.

As for Enron, it's nice that Happy can skip away...well...happy. He only lost a little money. There were many, many people who lost thousands of dollars they depended on for retirement. Enron was supposedly a stable, unwavering stock. It was a business involving energy. It was a stock investment analyst thought was a good pick and were touting it as a buy.
The financial ruin bled from there. People involved with Anderson had stock in the company they worked for. They lost the stock and were laid off. Nice.
And then there's the damage he did to California. I won't go into it because I don't know enough about it. I just know the damage was great. The people involved, including Dick Cheney need to go to prison. Preferably one that has a chain gang reform policy. Maybe we could have Dick help NO rebuild it's levee.

Posted by: Jeanne at December 28, 2005 01:06 PM

40

"Nature magically suits a man to his fortunes, by making them the fruit of his character."

"People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character."


~ Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 - 1882)

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 01:11 PM

41

#38 Hajji

...got mine at "Trolls Be Us'N Shit".

Thanks! You do agree that the Right is the entrepreneurs in this country, then?

You keep on baiting me! When time permits (you will see a lot this phrase), I intend to have fun w/you anti-trolls. If you get smart, if it is even possible, after what, losing 30 rounds, then I will watch more than comment. Occassionally, if I see an intelligent posting, I may come in and provide counterpoint! I absolutely HATE snobs who are apparently a dime-a-dozen here!

Posted by: Happy at December 28, 2005 01:12 PM

42

Eyes open,
My brother would be nodding in approval of your Prius choice. He has one and we hear about it all the time. He sent me several pictures by email. He calls the color, deep red wine.

Posted by: Jeanne at December 28, 2005 01:14 PM

43

Some may remember my little story, but I figure it's worth repeating. It was xmas eve, two years ago. I was in downtown Houston with some buddies. The city was empty. We decided to stop in front of the building of the recently collapsed Enron. In the alcove, piles of rags were huddled in front of the doors. Closer inspection revealed them to be homeless people shivering in the cold. For those who may not see the irony: one of the top ten corporations in the country, once a mountain of wealth (?) and power, and at the foot of the palace of this once-great economic empire slept the forgotten poor and destitute no one cared about. The difference between the money and means of the Enron executives who swindled, cheated, and coerced their millions and the (probably mentally-ill) powerlessness and undernourished poor is staggering.

"Primitive" cultures have natural wealth distribution mechanisms, built into the social structure. Two-thirds of all human speech is about other people, gossip. Well, in primitive cultures, people speak ill about those that are greedy and well of those who are generous as a means to promote wealth distribution. The Bushmen share meat and other foods, even if the hunter did not help kill the animal. But in larger societies, rich folks stay away from the poor folks, bypassing the gossip. In other cultures, prestige is gained by being generous and distributing wealth, which in turn grants people authority (limited though it may be). In our society, rich folks stay in gated communities, isolated, away from the gossip. Prestige is maintained, but not for a price... unless you consider all that money they spend on the bling bling - chromed Hummers, etc. So we end up with faceless corporations with reflective-windowed buildings, at the base of which sleep the victims of this unnatural and perverted economic system.

Empathy is an innate ability of all humans and social animals. A lizard does not express emotion because other lizards don't care what it is experiencing. We rely on emotional expressions to maintain group solidarity, to let others know how we are feeling, to have THEM experience what we are experiencing. Training someone to be dispassionate about the suffering of others is going against these natural and inherent tendencies. But this economic system we have that allows such great disparities between rich and poor is built on the idea that the condition of others is not our concern, that their lack of means is not our fault, but theirs. A corporation does think and feel like a human, it does not register the needs and feelings of humans, it cannot see that its activity often has a detrimental effect on society and the environment. I watched the trials of those crooks on TV, and was glad to see them brought to justice. A human without empathy is more of a lizard than a monkey. I will be glad again to hear another greedy villian has been brought to justice.

Posted by: goob at December 28, 2005 01:14 PM

44

#39 Jeanne

A timeout! I believe you were the one w/the bad experience w/John Gibson while you were young back (or perhaps now) in Sacramento. I am sorry for your experience!

I passed Sacramento several times transiting to Lake Tahoe from San Jose, and visited the State Capitol and your city twice!

Posted by: Happy at December 28, 2005 01:16 PM

45

Israel Ex-commandos Training Kurds in North Iraq: Report

(IslamOnline.net) - Dozens of former Israeli commandos have been training Kurdish security forces in northern Iraq, supplying them with equipment worth millions of dollars, Yedioth Aharonot newspaper reported Thursday, December 1.
^^^^^^^^^^6
I can't help but wonder; who else is receiving Israeli training and equipment? why does mr. sneaky man sniper insurgent in Iraq have state of the art Israeli equipment? is it possible that the global war on terror is being perpetuated at both ends by the middle?
^^^^^^^^^^6
Juba the SNIPER may be Israeli

scroll down and watch targets being picked off thru the eyes of the sniper's rifle

Posted by: James Ha at December 28, 2005 01:17 PM

46

Crooked books? We were keeping crooked books? It was all Skillings' fault!!!


Ken
ken@enron.gov

Posted by: Ken at December 28, 2005 01:18 PM

47

#44
Goob,
I loved the post.

Posted by: Jeanne at December 28, 2005 01:18 PM

48

One of our Docs owns a Ford f=350 diesel and a Prius. He drives about 50miles each way every work day.

I'll get about 25mph in the Jeep.

-'bout a $70 round trip.

-T

Posted by: Hajji at December 28, 2005 01:21 PM

49

"founding members of the DOT at one point claim he was here to teach us?..."

All way too obvious.

Same piffle different day.

"The less their ability, the more their conceit." ~ Ahad HaAm

capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 01:22 PM

50

Ken,
It will be ok. He He, yeah. Everything will be ok.

Posted by: Jeanne at December 28, 2005 01:22 PM

51

and I'm off!

Posted by: Hajji at December 28, 2005 01:23 PM

52

Hajji,

We all know you are a little off? We do not hold it against you. (I hope the jeep gets 25 MPG and goes faster than 25 MPH)

HA!


capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 01:29 PM

53

Re: #10...Count my hand. Others may just do the bump...bump de bump.

Re: #43....Nicely stated.

Later,
th

Posted by: th at December 28, 2005 01:35 PM

Posted by: James Ha at December 28, 2005 01:50 PM

55

James, so thats what flying monkeys look like with their masks off, de-dede-de, oh how we love the old one!

Posted by: DEN at December 28, 2005 01:56 PM

56

This is way off topic but interesting nevertheless. Operation Open Eyes Reality? You decide.

Posted by: DEN at December 28, 2005 02:00 PM

57

Jeanne, I ordered mine in black. The long wait time is very frustrating however. If I heard correctly there will be even fewer next year because Toyota will be focusing on the hybrid Camry.

Posted by: eyes_open at December 28, 2005 02:02 PM

58

columbine as the result of a psy-op - very interesting indeed - -
I can only say that if I had a handful of guns of various types they would be unregistered and stashed where no one would find them to take them away

Posted by: James Ha at December 28, 2005 02:14 PM

59

Den, Interesting article, but the findings by forensic psychologists who studied Columbine make sense and are much more likely than a complicated psy-op. One of the two kids was a bona fide psychotic. It was a matter of when, not if, he would end up killing. The other was manic depressive, following the first. Home movies exist that are said to display these behaviors fairly clear.

Posted by: eyes_open at December 28, 2005 02:36 PM

Posted by: Gerald at December 28, 2005 02:38 PM

Posted by: Gerald at December 28, 2005 02:44 PM

62

Debauchery and other evils

America has insatiable appetites for indentured servitude, slavery, and torture. America is an evil empire. America chooses to be separate from the International Criminal Court because to be part of the International Criminal Court would mean that America could be tried for crimes against humanity, murders, and war crimes. Since America in not part of the International Criminal Court, she can remain in denial for crimes against humanity, murders, and war crimes. America will never grow toward true greatness as long as she remains in denial.

Posted by: Gerald at December 28, 2005 02:47 PM

63

Let's get Jesus back

Bill Moyers' speech was one of the best speeches I have ever read. It was a powerful speech. As I read his speech, I wrote notes to help me highlight his words. There are many powerful ideas and so I can only share what gave me important ideas and thoughts.

Let's get Jesus back!

There are different kinds of religious denominations but even each denomination has their difference. Religion is both healing and killing. Each denomination acts like sibling rivals for God's favors. Are we killing for the glory of God? We seem to be applying military principles to evangelism. We invade countries and we say we are carrying out spiritual battles for the souls of this nation and the world. Can killing human beings save your soul? Killing human beings in the name of God will not save our souls. We are fighting current wars in the name of Jesus (that is blasphemy). General Boykin has said, "Bush was appointed by God" (blasphemy).

William Penn, a Quaker, said, "To be furious in religion is to be furiously irreligious."

The healing side of religion must overcome the killing side of religion. There are two Americas today. Laws are passed that says leave no rich child behind! Yet, we have poverty among married couples and single parent families. We have to run harder to just stay even. We cannot keep running.

Rich Americans have hardened their attitude toward poor people and middle class persons. The American system is rigged against the poor and the middle class. The Commonwealth Foundation Center for the Renewal of American Democracy has documented research that working families and the poor are losing ground under economic pressures that deeply affect household stability, family dynamics, social mobility, political participation, and civic life. Private control is taking over land, water, natural resources, media, scientific discovery, medical breakthroughs, and politics. Money is changing America. People are pre-occupied with money and the quest for money. Money has democracy in a stranglehold and is suffocating it. Money influences Washington, D.C.

Learned Hand said, "If we are to keep our democracy, there must be one commandment. Thou shall not ration justice." The rich do not have the right to buy more democracy than anyone else. Class war is going on from the rich upon the poor and the middle class (who has said that there is no class war). The rich are shredding the social safety nets. They want more and more control and wealth. Here is a fact. Most people will have to do with less so that big business can have more. Big business has built alliances with religious right and contrived a cultural war as a smokescreen to hide the economic plunder of the very people who enlisted as foot soldiers in the war.

William Buffet said, "There was a class war, my class won." Business wins for Bush. 50% of the tax cuts go to the 1% wealthiest Americans. Domestic social programs have been cut. The rich want to starve Americans into submission. America is home to the greatest inequality of wealth in the history of mankind. Government is being stripped of any power so the rich can be rewarded and the government's only function is to wage wars so the rich can get richer. Tax cuts will force cutbacks in Social Security. This may be the first class war in history where the victims will die laughing.

Our democracy is degenerating into a shell of itself in which the privileged and powerful sustain their own way of life at the expense of other and the United States becomes another Latin America with small crest of the rich at the top governing a nation of serfs.

Poor are getting poorer, the health care crisis worsens, wealth and media become more and more concentrated, and Christianity lost its voice. The religious right has drowned everyone else out. Jesus was hijacked. This Jesus was hijacked by the religious right and became the guardian of privilege instead a champion of the dispossessed. Hijacked and made into a militarist, hedonist, and lobbyist (blasphemy) seeking tax breaks and loopholes for the powerful, costly new weapon programs that do not work, and punitive public policies.

Let's get Jesus back!

We need a Jesus who inspired
1. Edward Rogers to crusade across New England for an eight hour work day
2. Frances William to rise up against the sweatshops
3. John Ryan to champion child labor laws, unemployment insurance, a minimum wage and decent housing for the poor, ten years before the New Deal
4. Dorothy Day to challenge the Church to march alongside auto workers, fishermen, textile workers, brewery workers, and marble cutters
5. E.B. McKinney and Owen Whitfield to challenge a Mississippi system that kept sharecroppers in servitude and debt
6. A Presbyterian minister Eugene Carson Blake to protest racial injustice in Baltimore
7. Martin Luther King to join the sanitation workers for decent wages in Memphis

Now comes the resurrection all over again. Our times cry out for a new politics of justice. We need faith that takes on corruption of both parties. We need a faith that challenges complacency at all power. Jesus drove the moneychangers from the temple. We must drive them from the temples of democracy.

Let's get Jesus back!

But, let's do it in love!

Love gets thrown out casually these days. But the love I mean is the love described by Reinhold Neibuhr in his book of essays, Justice and Mercy, where he writes: "Basically love means being responsible, responsibility to our family, toward our civilization, and now by the pressures of history, toward the universe of mankind." Let us love our enemy, even as we resist his aggression. We cannot defeat terrorists if we become like them. We cannot stand up to the religious right if we imitate them.

Love is action, not sentiment. Who gave us the authority to change the meaning of the Church? How did we let creed override compassion? When the Church was young and fair, and the people passed by her doors, they did not comment on the difference or the doctrines. Those stern and taciturn pagans said of the Christians: "How they love another!" Peter said of the first Churches, "Above all things have unfailing love toward one another." Love covers a multitude of imperfections.

Glenn Tinder reminds us that "none are good but all are sacred." Life is not fair and it is never equal. The founders were speaking of powerful spiritual truth that is the heart of our hope for this country. They saw America as a great promise but America is a broken promise and we are here to do what we can to fix it. St. Augustine shows us how: "One loving soul sets another on fire." (Let us have loving souls so we can set America on fire with our love for each other.) To move beyond sentimentality, what begins in love must lead to justice. Your Call to Renewal is the fight of our lives. (More Christian blood will flow in the twenty-first century than the previous twenty centuries.)

Parentheses are my personal comments.

Posted by: Gerald at December 28, 2005 02:58 PM

64

Consumer Confidence Soars in December
Wednesday December 28, 1:23 pm ET
By Eileen Alt Powell, AP Business Writer
Consumer Confidence Surges, Nearly Recovering From Beating From Katrina, Other Storms

As long as we are wondering everywhich way but loose!

Posted by: Happy news at December 28, 2005 03:30 PM

65

I March

I march to the beat of a different drummer. There are some blog articles that really do not excite me. It is not that they are unimportant but I have a different focus. Here are some topics that are important to me:

1. rigged electronic voting machines
2. the hijacking of Jesus by the irreligious right
3. the conversion of Americans to bushianity
4. wrong and immoral wars
5. a wrong and immoral emperor for America
6. battles taking place for American souls
7. we are brothers and sisters in God

Come to me and I will protect you. Jesus of Nazareth

Posted by: Gerald at December 28, 2005 03:35 PM

66

Re: #10

If anybody wonders about my vote, I wonder if they have read a post of mine! HA!

My better half, my cats and I have all hands, paws and a few creative appendages in the air - proudly!


HA!


capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 03:36 PM

67

FYI! I have added Helen Thomas to my list of foxes. Helen is now one of fourteen foxes.

Posted by: Gerald at December 28, 2005 03:37 PM

68

More Jobs and Better Pay in 2006

By Peter Coy
BusinessWeek Online

With a growing economy, increased production, and inflation easing, U.S. workers should enjoy the new year

#66 capt
You must be retarded! Do you want me to dig out David's comment on his view on ignoring `insignificant' personal attack? What's with you? You are like a little gnat. Round 31 and counting!

Posted by: Happy news at December 28, 2005 03:44 PM

69

Consumer confidence plunges

Soaring energy prices, war fears, cold weather send key index to lowest in more than 9 years.


February 25, 2003: 6:42 PM EST
By Mark Gongloff, CNN/Money Staff Writer

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - The confidence of U.S. consumers, whose spending fuels more than two-thirds of the nation's economy, crumbled to the lowest level in more than nine years in February, a research group said Tuesday.

Though the drop, which was far worse than economists expected, doesn't necessarily mean consumers will stop spending, it's a sign that the economy's recovery from a recession in 2001 is being seriously tested by unusual events, including war, terror fears and bad weather.

The Conference Board, a business research group based in New York, said its closely watched index of consumer confidence sank to 64 from a revised 78.8 in January. Economists, on average, had expected a reading of 77, according to Briefing.com.

It was the lowest reading for the index since October 1993. It was the fifth-largest one-month drop on record and the biggest one-month drop since the 17-point drop in September 2001, which followed the Sept. 11 terror attacks.

"Lackluster job and financial markets, rising fuel costs, and the increasing threat of war and terrorism appear to have taken a toll on consumers," said Lynn Franco, director of the Conference Board's Consumer Research Center.

The Conference Board's expectations index, which measures how consumers feel about the future, dropped to 65.6 from 81.1, while the present situation index fell to 61.6 from 75.3.

"This month's confidence readings paint a gloomy picture of current economic conditions, with no apparent rebound on the short-term horizon," Franco said.

On Wall Street, stock prices fell after the report but rebounded to end with modest gains. Treasury bond prices rose.

President Bush, addressing reporters Tuesday shortly after the report was released, pressed again for passage of his $1.3 trillion proposal for tax cuts and spending, which he says will help the economy.

"Our policies are aimed at encouraging investment and job creation, as well as consumer confidence and spending," the president said.

Democrats responded by saying the president's proposals don't do enough to stimulate the economy, while adding to budget deficits for the next several years. They pushed their own $136 billion plan, which relies more on short-term stimulus measures.

"Unless we address this with fiscal stimulus that will give us more confidence than we have today, these problems will compound," Sen. Tom Daschle, D-S.D., told reporters.

Separately, the National Association of Realtors said sales of existing homes, the biggest sector of the housing market, jumped to a record annual rate of 6.09 million units in January from a 5.86 million-unit pace in December. Economists, on average, expected a 5-million-unit pace, according to Briefing.com.

*****end of clip*****

Four months of consumer confidence does not bring us back to where we were more than ten years ago.

Kind of tempers the good news with a little reality check.

The bushbots can claim to have a great and growing economy but the numbers expose their lies and confusion.

When any number or comparison can be made to the Clinton administrations numbers - 22 milllion NEW jobs, 11,000 DJIA strong growth and stable numbers, then we can put a yellow happy face on the Bush un-economy, not before.


capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 03:47 PM

70

USATODAY.com
Snowballs and the magic of compounding
Tuesday December 27, 11:01 pm ET


Q: I want to start investing, but I only have $500 to $1,000 to start with and can only invest about $100 a month. How much can that be worth in 30 years and what should I invest in?


You Cornesters can start here!

Posted by: Happy news everywhere at December 28, 2005 03:48 PM

71

Dear David:
Just a brief request. For your own good, get the hell out of P. J. Media with all due dispatch.

RC

Posted by: Retired Catholic at December 28, 2005 03:51 PM

72

Markets closing soon! Gotta Go!

Posted by: Happy at December 28, 2005 03:52 PM

73

Let me share with you a personal experience. Our son was home for Christmas. He has now returned to his primary home in another state. He is more outspoken than the other sons.

He said when he was home, "Dad, you look a little pukey."

Little does he know how right he is. Events, such as Christmas wars, Bill Moyers speech, Let's get Jesus back, spying on Americans without warrants, etc., build up inside and their surfaces a torrent of puke that must escape through the mouth like a geyser escaping from the ground. Sometimes this puke experience is so bad that you feel the puke is escaping from the nostrils as well.

After wiping away the residue from your face, you take you index finger and place it up to the third digit in the nostrils to clear any residue that lingers inside the nose.

My son is right but I choose not to let him know how right he is.

Posted by: Gerald at December 28, 2005 03:54 PM

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 04:00 PM

75

Take care of yourself Gerald.

Posted by: Jeanne at December 28, 2005 04:10 PM

76

#74
YIKES!!!

Posted by: Jeanne at December 28, 2005 04:11 PM

77

#10
I think it should be called 'The Manic Phase'.

Posted by: Jeanne at December 28, 2005 04:12 PM

78

I still believe certain people are sent to blogs such as this one to disrupt and antagonize posters. Why else would they be here? People generally do not stay where they are not wanted unless they have an agenda. Rather odd that one leaves and another takes their place. Current issue is very similar to baf, both so-called business owners referring to employees and both have the bully attitude. HMMMMMM

Posted by: DEN at December 28, 2005 04:16 PM

79

I agree Den. I think it's to change topics too. I know some are paid. My son knew a kid who was offered a job creating websites for a product that told how good the product was. The product has a consumer action against it. This guy was supposed to create it and then I think get a ton of hits on it so that when you went into google his site came up first. Anyway, the point is, people are paid to be dishonest. Uber Happy is too unreal to be real.

Posted by: Jeanne at December 28, 2005 04:21 PM

80

Gerald, You seem like an intelligent person please follow The Serenity Prayer which I believe is intended for those going through what you are. Take care!

Posted by: DEN at December 28, 2005 04:25 PM

81

Key Enron figure pleads guilty

HOUSTON (Reuters) - Enron Corp.'s former chief accountant, Richard Causey, on Wednesday pleaded guilty to securities fraud in exchange for a possible seven-year jail sentence for his role in the 2001 collapse of the power-trading giant.

Causey had been scheduled to face trial next month with former Enron chief executives Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling, but now is likely to cooperate with federal prosecutors against his former bosses as part of his plea bargain.

Causey pleaded guilty to count 19 of the superseding indictment in the case. In the indictment, counts 14 through 20 charge Causey and Skilling with securities fraud in relation to the filing of financial statements. Count 19 specifically deals with the filing of the company's quarterly report for the first quarter of 2001.

Whether he will testify in their trial is uncertain, but his deal with prosecutors calls for them to request a seven-prison sentence that could be reduced to five years if he cooperates fully....

...He said he would ask Lake to delay the trial for up to two months.

Attorneys following the case said Causey's turn was generally bad news for Skilling and Lay.

"Less rope is needed for two necks, as the government's noose tightens," former federal prosecutor Jacob Frenkel said. "The government always benefits from the addition of high-level insiders who would have been party to conversations with most senior executives."

Lawyer Jamie Wareham said Causey would make a good witness if called by prosecutors to testify.

"It's a bad development for Lay and Skilling in the main because Causey is a likable, chubby, hail-fellow-well-met kind of guy," said Wareham, global chairman of the litigation department at Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker.

------------------
Not any better then horse thieves.


Posted by: Jeanne at December 28, 2005 04:27 PM

82

You may recall, Ms. Jeanne, the last one who insisted on "educating" all the "liberals" on this blog. Legend has it she lost her head. Literally.

Posted by: Robb at December 28, 2005 04:30 PM

83

Jeanne, There is a real problem with accountability on the web. People can pose as anybody and there is no way to prove or disprove anything. However regulars posting to a blog kinda get to know each other a bit, their quirks and personalities. When "Theres a stranger in town" it is quite difficult to acertain their motives. I think the motive here is quite plain, disrupt and denegrate others while hiding themselves from plain view. Exploitation of others is a disgusting trait. Pity his employees, if they exist at all.

Posted by: DEN at December 28, 2005 04:35 PM

84

#82
Tooooo funny.

Posted by: Jeanne at December 28, 2005 04:36 PM

85

#83
I pity the employer because it had been taken over by pod people. I think the employer is the Republican Party. It used to be a respectable party. It used to have merit. Now it's just a cesspool.

Posted by: Jeanne at December 28, 2005 04:39 PM

86

Must be one of the bobbers then.

Posted by: DEN at December 28, 2005 04:54 PM

87

Interesting thing about blogs is that you can be anyone you want to be. For instance I am a handsome millionaire with scads of money. Or I could be lying about that. Go figure.

Posted by: What the F**k at December 28, 2005 05:00 PM

88

Den #78

Happy is way to polite to be compared to me. I've been keeping my eye on you trolls, so watch out jughead. I have been away finishing up 2005 with a bang. Business is great! Thanks George!!

I have found that the sparring was fun for a few days but gets old after awhile because you trolls are so damn boring!! Same old hippocritical bullshit day in and day out.

I feel sorry for Capt, Jeanne, Robert S, Den, James Ha, Gerald & What the F__k for being sickly addicted to wasting their lives on a web site posting comments that they would'nt speak of in public because they know they would be ridiculed to death for these wacky lame brain thoughts.

But hey here's to 2006 being a great year to all of us in reality land.

Posted by: baf at December 28, 2005 05:01 PM

89

The proof arrived, I rest my case.

Posted by: DEN at December 28, 2005 05:08 PM

90

Den 89

The pwoof awwived, I west my cwase.

Dumbass!!!!

Posted by: baf at December 28, 2005 05:21 PM

91

No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority: Thomas Jefferson: American 3rd US President (1801-09).

=
He is not strong and powerful who throweth people down; but he is strong who witholdeth himself from anger: Muhammad

=
Do not say, that if the people do good to us, we will do good to them; and if the people oppress us, we will oppress them; but determine that if people do you good, you will do good to them; and if they oppress you, you will not oppress them: Muhammad

=
To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace: Bible

=
Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.: Buddha - Hindu Prince Gautama Siddharta

===

Thanks ICH Newsletter!

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 05:25 PM

92

#74 capt, Bush wants all American jobs outscourced and all men and women in the military armed forces to fight his endless wars. Bush's performance has been pathetic for Americans.

#80 DEN, thank you for the Serenity Prayer! I have added it to my computer benchmark.

Posted by: Gerald at December 28, 2005 05:26 PM

93

Former Chief Accountant for Enron Pleads Guilty to Fraud


By David Streitfeld
Times Staff Writer

3:07 PM PST, December 28, 2005

The chief accountant for Enron Corp. pleaded guilty today to securities fraud, part of a last-minute deal that secures his cooperation with government prosecutors in exchange for a lighter prison sentence.

Richard Causey's sudden about-face is a potential source of great trouble for the fallen energy company's top two executives, founder Kenneth L. Lay and former Chief Executive Jeffrey K. Skilling. Both were scheduled to go to trial Jan. 17 Ñ as was Causey until his plea deal was announced in a Houston courtroom.

The trial of Enron's top executives, now delayed until Jan. 30 at the request of defense attorneys, is seen as a capstone to the series of prosecutions that followed the corporate scandals that rocked American business in the early years of the decade.

For more than a year, Causey's lawyers have been working with attorneys for Skilling and Lay on a joint defense against charges of fraud, conspiracy, lying to auditors and approving of misleading financial statements. Now Causey, 44, who is depicted in most accounts of Enron's downfall as a somewhat hapless sort who didn't orchestrate the fraud but did nothing to stop it, may be offering prosecutors a road map to his former colleagues' alleged misdeeds.

His plea deal calls for a seven-year sentence that would be reduced to five if he cooperates. In addition, Causey will hand over $1.25 million to the government.

"It's hard to believe they'd offer this generous a deal unless he could deliver the goods," said former prosector Kirby Behre.

Enron's collapse into bankruptcy in late 2001 deprived thousands of employees of their jobs and pensions, destroyed tens of billions of dollars in market value and pulled back the curtain on a dizzyingly complex fraud scheme.

*****end of clip*****

This mean curtains for Kenny-boy and a few others. The deal must include allocution and that means names and dates.

(queue: Elton John Good Bye Yellow Brick Road)


capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 07:08 PM

94

Lenders Target State Laws


An industry that makes home loans to people with poor credit wants uniform federal rules that could undo tougher consumer protections.


By Jonathan Peterson
Times Staff Writer

December 28, 2005

RALEIGH, N.C. Ñ A booming industry that makes home loans to people with fragile credit is lobbying Congress for nationwide rules that regulators and consumer advocates warn would roll back tougher state protections.

The debate comes as millions of Americans have taken out loans with higher fees and interest rates than the mortgages granted to people with solid credit. As these "sub-prime" loans have proliferated, so have complaints from borrowers who say they've been slammed by surprise fees and high-pressure salespeople.

More than two dozen states, led by North Carolina, have moved into a vacuum created by weak federal regulation, imposing their own laws targeting abusive practices. The industry's five biggest players are based in California, and one, Orange-based Ameriquest Mortgage Co., is nearing a $325-million settlement with 33 states over allegations of bait-and-switch tactics, inflated appraisals and other issues.

Amid increasing scrutiny of their operations, lenders have rallied behind a bill sponsored by Reps. Bob Ney (R-Ohio) and Paul E. Kanjorski (D-Pa.) that would impose uniform national rules on the industry, which last year issued $530 billion in higher-cost mortgages.

Supporters say the measure is needed to replace a hodgepodge of state and local lending laws. Some of those laws, lenders say, make it costlier to extend credit to higher-risk borrowers. In at least one case, a lender says it cannot offer North Carolina customers the lowest possible interest rate because of restrictions in state law.

*****end of clip*****

These vultures prey on people with poor credit and they want to reduce consumer protection?

These are the lowest rat bastards in the lending industry and they make millions of dollars from thin air and they want to take away consumer protections? Just look at who they have in their corner Bob Ney of coingate?


capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 07:16 PM

95

You're.. OK, Corn. But you're old enough where playing it coy- professionally speaking- makes you look silly.

Posted by: Sonoma at December 28, 2005 07:17 PM

96

New Domestic Spy polling numbers are very bad for Bush

Some right-wingers have been crowing over a new poll that shows:
Sixty-four percent (64%) of Americans believe the National Security Agency (NSA) should be allowed to intercept telephone conversations between terrorism suspects in other countries and people living in the United States. A Rasmussen Reports survey found that just 23% disagree.
I've got news for you. That's an abysmally low number for Bush.

Even I would probably approve of the NSA listening in on phone calls between suspected terrorists and "people living in the US" - notice the survey question didn't even say "Americans," it said "people living in the US," a description that would get EVEN MORE support for spying (i.e., people are more apt to approve NSA spying on foreigners in the US rather than US citizens in the US).

That number should have been in the 90 percentile and up, Americans who support the NSA eavesdropping on conversations with suspected terrorists. Yet it was only in the low 60s. Something's up.

And may I also add that the poll question has nothing to do with the current scandal. It says nothing about whether the administration should be able to break the law in doing such eavesdropping, nor whether the administration should be permitted to do such eavesdropping without having first obtained a court order. Again, each of those added facts would presumably lower the poll number considerably.

Again, that number should have been in the 90s. The fact that only 6 out of 10 Americans are willing to agree to such a broad question, to me, says that Bush is not on solid ground on this issue at all.
-------------------
I'm a liberal and people who know me know I'm a liberal. So I probably won't get a contrary answer to my questions. I don't know anyonw who seriously thinks detainees, including Padilla, should be locked up without a trial and due process. Should Bush and Co be allowed to spy? Not when it takes away the rights of an individual. How many cases have been destroyed because of this spying? How much lawyer - client priviledge has been violated. To me it's just creepy.

Posted by: Jeanne at December 28, 2005 07:18 PM

97

David,

Don't forget that Abramoff is an equal opportunity palm greaser. I am sure he can rat on just as many Dems as Reps. Why do you fail to mention that? Showing your bias?

Posted by: TRH at December 28, 2005 07:21 PM

98

Gerald,
I let events get me down a few months back. Big mistake. Why should I give my health up to the swine? Stay strong. Remember...Don't let the bast*&ds get you down.

On the up side of the news round up, the dealings of the right wing are now more in the open. Media is slowly figuring how to sort out a scent and stick with it.

The misdealings of Enron, the lies, deception and misuse of power of the administration are under more scrutiny. Congress seems to be rousing from the past grog, at least enough to start some investigations. It may be weak, but it is an improvement over a year ago.

Cheers, and thanks for hangin in there.
Later,
th

Posted by: th at December 28, 2005 07:30 PM

99

It isn't so much luck that gets george w. bush over the bumps in the road as it is stalling, more specifically stonewalling. If one stalls long enough, an intervening event occurs and the subject is changed...for instance, an unfolding scandal can take a backseat because the dynamics have changed.

Some may have forgotten that cheney's secret energy task force pre-dates 9/11â„¢ -- the bush administration began stonewalling Congress, GAO, and the media on the secret energy meetings prior to 9/11â„¢ then they got lucky when the subject was changed. After 9/11â„¢ it became almost unseemly for anyone to question the administration because we were "at war" -- the busheviks, in effect, trademarked 9/11â„¢ for their imperial purposes.

One reason for the glacial pace in getting Lay and Skilling to trial is that Enron, Abramoff, the secret warrantless spying, the busheviks's defiance of Congress's investigative authority, novel interpretations of executive privilege, disregard for the environment, unprecedented secrecy is all intertwined and part of a pattern. The busheviks/cheneyites needed to hide any incriminating information about their relationship with their heavy-hitter campaign contributors from the energy business and the corruption industry to help ensure reelection in '04.

They stalled and stonewalled to get past the 2004 presidential election, IMO. They will come up with other stalling tactics as the new year begins -- and they will use those "tactics" to keep secret as much information as they can leading up to the '06 midterms.


Posted by: micki at December 28, 2005 07:33 PM

100

Bush seeks to link Jack Abramoff to Democrats

Despite Bush's views, the scandals in Washington have touched Republicans so far. In addition to the indictments of DeLay, Cunningham and a former White House official who represented tribes, Michael Scanlon, a former Republican aide to DeLay, pleaded guilty last month in a scheme to bribe another Republican congressman and defraud tribes out of tens of millions of dollars.

And the majority of Abramoff's money went to Republicans, not Democrats. According to a Washington Post analysis, Republican politicians and political action committees received 63.7 percent of the $5.3 million in contributions made by Abramoff's former tribal clients and associates from 1999 through 2004.

News reports also indicate the Department of Justice is looking at the actions of a half of dozen Republicans in the House and the Senate who accepted money from Abramoff, whose former aides went to work for Abramoff or whose spouses received work as a result of their connections to Abramoff.

Two top GOP operatives -- Grover Norquist of Americans for Tax Reform and Ralph Reed, a key Bush fundraiser -- took millions from Abramoff's tribes as well, the Senate Indian Affairs Committee's investigation has shown.

As the committee closes its probe and DOJ investigators sharpen their cases, Republicans like Bush have sought to bring Democrats into the picture. The first major target has been Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-North Dakota), who accepted $67,000 in donations from Abramoff's former clients.

Dorgan, the vice chairman of the Indian Affairs Committee and the top Democrat on the Interior Appropriations subcommittee that controls Indian funding, has lashed out at the campaign. "It's not surprising that from the sleazy world of those who defrauded the Indian tribes, we have seen bogus charges against those of us who are doing the investigating," Dorgan said last month at a press conference at the United Tribes Technical College in Bismarck, North Dakota.

Dorgan has since returned the money to four tribes who had hired Abramoff.

Some Republicans have turned their sights on Sen. John McCain (R-Arizona), the committee chairman who initiated the Abramoff probe. They have accused him of using the investigation to go after people who opposed him in the 2000 presidential primary against Bush. McCain has ridiculed the charges and has since said he expects "lots" of indictments of people who were involved.

The committee held five hearings on the matter, four of which were held with McCain as chairman and Dorgan as vice chairman. The first occurred under former chairman Ben Nighthorse Campbell (R-Colorado), who was equally hard on Abramoff and his associates before retiring at the end of 2004.

"For 400 years, people have been cheating Indian tribes, so you're not the first one," Campbell told Scanlon at a November 17, 2004, hearing. "You're the problem, buddy, with what is happening to American Indians."
--------------------
Abrahmoff was in the business of making money. He was dishonest and unethical. He went to where the money was and he went to people who didn't care where the money came from. Very sleazy. Don't connect the Democrats to this snake unless they deserve it.

Posted by: Jeanne at December 28, 2005 07:35 PM

101

#97 -- early reports show the repugs got way more than the lion's share of the loot -- besides, who said anywhere that it was solely a Repug problem?

Not answering for David...just observing

Posted by: micki at December 28, 2005 07:37 PM

102

Micki,
I can only imagine what books are going to be written in the coming years. I can't imagine the scandal that has yet to come out. I keep thinking we are seeing the tip of the iceberg and then something else comes up. That iceberg must be touching the ocean bottom.

Posted by: Jeanne at December 28, 2005 07:39 PM

103


The Constitutional crises of 2006
De facto dictatorship looms if America doesn't act now

Just today I was thinking how we're living in momentous times and how the survival of the U.S. will soon be determined one way or the other. Then I read Geov Parrish's latest article. He said it all.

Posted by: Carol at December 28, 2005 07:48 PM

104

December 15, 2005
Abramoff Was A Republican

Was Jack Abramoff "giving money to both political parties," as President Bush suggested yesterday? No.

The lobbyist himself was a Bush Pioneer and directly wrote more than 200K in checks from '92 to '05 to Republicans. Abramoff never gave a penny to Democrats or Democratic committees.

True -- he encouraged or "directed," as the Washington Post says, his clients to give generously to politicians of parties, which they did. And several associates who worked closely with Abramoff were, indeed, "equal money dispenser[s]" as Bush said.

But not Abramoff himself -- he gave personally only to Republicans.
++++++++++
The answer is to get the dirty $$$$ out of politics.

Posted by: micki at December 28, 2005 07:50 PM

105

#70
I would put my $$, if I had any, in the oil companies if that is possible - they have made record profits of late

Posted by: James Ha at December 28, 2005 07:53 PM

106

100 & 101

David just conveniently left out some names of Dems tied to Abramoff. I agree more Reps were beneficiaries of his "donations." Most lobbyists come with a particular political leaning but believe me, if they can see where money can be spent to their benefit, they will do so, no matter the political leaning of the politician.
I also wish to inject my personal opinion into this matter. All politicians are slime when it comes to fund raising. They will do, say and take money from anyone who can donate to their, cause, specifically, their own re-election. John McCain said it himself when arguing for McCain-Feingold, "We are all corrupted by the money in politics." I have yet to see one resignation of anyone for this confession of being corrupt. I at least will admit they are all corrupt. Others refuse to see the forest for the trees by saying, "It's not my person, it's all those others."

Posted by: TRH at December 28, 2005 07:54 PM

107

104

No doubt Abramoff is a rep. I was just merely pointing out that if all the dots are connected, there are just as many ties to Abramoff on the rep side as there on the dem side. David failed to mention this which gives me pause as to why he would even mention it in the first place. If DeLay is corrupt for his association with Abramoff, are not the others as well?

Money has always been involved in politics and will always remain so. I can overlook the sleeziness of the campaign and look to hold them accountable for the "taxpayers" money which they are entrusted with once they get elected. I made a comment to a family member who lived in Morgantown, WV in 2002 that Senator Byrd was looking might frail. He said that he met him at an event earlier and asked him about all the spending going on in Washington. He said that Byrd replied, "Sonny, we are all there to do that. I am there to make sure this state gets its' fair share." My response was that I don't doubt that is the reason they are there, I just want them all to fight over least amount of money to begin with.

That is where the real corruption lies.

Posted by: TRH at December 28, 2005 08:35 PM

108

Suspect gives deputy his license, then leaves crash scene, sheriff says


ASHBURN, Va. Running away from an accident scene after giving your license to police officers makes it pretty easy for them to find you. But that's just what authorities say a Loudoun County man did.

According to the sheriff's office, Richard Dumm was driving on Route Seven in Ashburn on Christmas night when his pickup rear-ended a Mazda stuck in the right lane with a flat tire. Of the four people in the Mazda, two were seriously hurt, while two others were treated and released.

But while firefighters and deputies were helping the injured, authorities say Dumm walked away. Of course, having his license, deputies knew where to find him. He was arrested at his home early yesterday on a charge of felony hit and run.
*********************
I think the last name of the perp says it all!

Posted by: TRH at December 28, 2005 08:42 PM

109

Is it possible that Pags has a semi-literate half-brother that goes by the name of Happy?

Posted by: golucky at December 28, 2005 09:09 PM

110

There is no such thing as democrat and republican criminals. Just criminals. Do you ask a murderer what party? Get real.

If the best you can do is try to deflect blame to others you have already lost. Because to do so is a tacit admission of guilt, no?


capt

Posted by: capt at December 28, 2005 09:15 PM

111

110

Did I not say that they are all corrupt? David mentioned the fe