Mr. David Corn,

Thanks, Happy Thanksgiving!

Kirk

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

capt

David,

Happy Thanksgiving!

It sounds like the CIA could have taken a page out of Scooter's book on torture.

Somebody should tell Pudhurts and Libby that we're not doing that "cussing" thing here, anymore!

Give Thanks, Happily (and not just tomorrow!)

-T

Hajji,

I never thought the "cussing" thing would go as far as it did. I just don't think it is necessary to make a point. Of course, I will be the first to admit I had done it in my previous posts and shouldn't have. I can understand a curse word or two in a post but some of the posts by "anita" were nothing but profanity with a few regular words thrown in. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Happy Thanksgiving! Does it look like any of the soldiers in your family will make it home for the holidays?

Did matter-antimatter mix yield molecules?

Positronium pairing points to a new kind of chemistry.

Philip Ball

Physicists suspect they have created the first molecules from atoms that meld matter with antimatter.

Allen Mills of the University of California, Riverside, and his colleagues say they have seen telltale signs of positronium molecules, made from two positronium atoms1.

Positronium is an other-worldly mimic of hydrogen. In a hydrogen atom, a negatively charged electron moves around a proton, which has a positive charge. The electrical force of attraction between the two subatomic particles holds them together.

*****end of clip*****

WOW, lots of work on hydrogen. I believe we are on the brink of some very major scientific breakthroughs. How cool would it be if 20 years from now oil and fossil fuels were as obsolete as dial phones?

Imagine a world where oil is no longer an issue.

There are so many millionaires to be made without having to trash the planet.

We can and will do so much better in the future.

capt

Nope.

I'm a'wurkin' and a'lurkin.

I start trainin' JB to run this place on Monday!

Emergency Healthcare doesn't know what it is in for!

Kisses to the Missus!

-T

Capt,

It'll be interesting to see how hard the existing energy companies try to buy up the patents, or if the Alen Mills, et al., start dropping or dissapearing faster than the virologists have been the past few years.

But, of course, I lack faith.

-T

Officials Optimistic About Troop Draw Down

By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer
Wednesday, November 23, 2005

(11-23) 14:51 PST WASHINGTON, (AP) --

The Bush administration and military leaders are sounding optimistic notes about scaling back U.S. troops in Iraq next year, as public opposition to the war and congressional demands for withdrawal get louder.

Contingency plans for a phased withdrawal include proposals to further postpone or cancel the deployment of a Fort Riley, Kan., brigade and an option to put a combat brigade in nearby Kuwait in case it is needed, said a senior Pentagon official.

While military leaders would not confirm the size of possible withdrawals, conversations with defense officials and analysts suggest troop levels could drop below 100,000 next year, contingent on the progress of the Iraqi government and its security forces. There are currently about 155,000 U.S. troops in Iraq.

The official, who asked not to be identified because plans are not final, said stresses on the National Guard and Reserves are also factors.

*****end of clip*****

I am willing to wager this really means an up-tick in the numbers. They have consistently talked up a draw-down before increasing the number of our troops in Iraq.

I really do wish I am wrong.

Anybody willing to wager?

capt

Capt,

Mixed feelings...

While I want nobody's sons or daughters at such risk there, I want Spec. Spanky to have as much support as possible...

THE STRAW MEN OF IRAQ: Ten Pro-War Fallacies

by Peter Daou

Friday's hastily staged congressional vote on withdrawal from Iraq may have been designed to embarrass John Murtha, but the raucous session offered valuable insight into the various rationales for war and the tactics used to attack Democrats who oppose Bush's Iraq policy. A parade of House Republicans went after the Dems and laid out a surprisingly weak case for the invasion and continued occupation of Iraq. Here, in my view, are ten of the leading pro-war fallacies...

1. VIRTUALLY EVERYONE WHO SAW THE INTELLIGENCE BELIEVED SADDAM HAD WMD, THEREFORE BUSH IS BEING UNFAIRLY SINGLED OUT FOR CRITICISM

The typical framing is: "Democrats got the same intelligence and reached the same conclusion, so blaming Bush for misleading America is purely political." The argument is also presented in 'gotcha' form by people like Sean Hannity, who use a lengthy blind quote about the threat posed by Saddam that turns out to be from Bill Clinton, John Kerry or some other Democrat. The conclusion is that if Bush was lying, they must have been lying too.

There is a false assumption underlying this argument, namely that Dems received the same intel as Bush (they didn't), but setting that aside, here are two reasons why this is a straw man:

POSTSCRIPT: Washington is suddenly convulsed by a debate that should have taken place three years ago, and the sleeping giant known as the American public is finally awakening to the deceptions that led to war. Emotion, instinct, and other proclivities may be the driving force behind support or opposition for war, but reason and logic are the means by which we try to prove the correctness of our views. No matter how heartfelt, the arguments in favor of the Iraq war are almost always specious and riddled with fallacious reasoning. On a matter so grave, that should be unacceptable to the American people. Judging from the polls, it is.

*****end of clip*****

A good read, preaching to the choir for most of us and 63% of the public.

capt

Hajji,

Good luck with the training. Do I really have to do that kissing thing?

Capt,

It will happen one day but it will not go down without a lot of kicking and screaming from the oil industry. Look how long civilization existed without the internal combustion engine.

Re drawdown. I don't want to bet you because I hope you are right. I think the telling point will be the December elections in Iraq and how serious the newly elected government will be in taking over the security of their own country. Here's hoping that the drawdown takes place.

BTW:

"Why, hello Clarisse" Profilet so bad of the boss to make you read such trash as Libby's not-so-novel efforts. You deserve hazard pay.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.

capt

After two years of grand jury, zippo, excepting for the set-up GOTCHA charge to justify the waste of tax payer money, not woodward unleases the mad dog again, no doubt will up another juicy bone to throw up folks for another waste of funds. Go get tiger, ggrrrrrrrrrr

"when you're not keeping the economy afloat by visiting the mall"

I only go this those shops with a merry christmas sign, the others I dont recognize as being the HOLY-DAY spirit.

David,
Happy Thanksgiving. Enjoy the time with family.

Now to get to the meat of the article.
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, Louise. Holy Smokes. Yikes! Ewwwweeee! Ick. Paaatuueee.

No more Libby excerpts, I beg of you. I will tell you anything you want to hear.

Do the conservative champions of the Bush White House defend or endorse this position?

Well, I am not sure if physical torture has actually occur, but I can give guidance. The inquision used tortured, but it was against citizens, and that practice was banded against US police against citizens. The islamo-facist terrorist are not US citizens. OK, Geneva convention, soldiers respecting rules of war in uniform are given certain protections. The islamo-facists are not entitled to geneva protection. Then we go the MORALITY of torture. I am impressed that that political party bent on pandering those seek to destroy US morality would not use Morlaity against the conversative administration. So, there being no legal basis, lets look at the morality. Killing with weapons in war must be considered political brutality, but what is the difference between bombing a safe house, causing death, and the torture, another act of violence. Is a shoot to kill order against OBL torture? No trial, just shoot to kill. Now, as a general proposition, torture of low ranking individual, with little to gain, seems over bearing in view of the information that could be gain, not so with leaders of the terrorists. Also, there seems that there should be some urgency to it, that is, timer on bomb ticting, and got to get the info. With a bomb about to go off in new york, I would say, screw to the thumbs of an international terrorist, without hesitation. I thing that is what the Adm wants to keep, the option to use any torture in limited circumstances, which would probably one of extreme. That seems acceptable to me. You all trying to use US domestic laws and principles to terrorist dont square. Our constitution never granted foreigner's rights, that you all seem to want to apply globally. Now, if the adm is saying one thing, we dont torture, but they do, I condemn them that for the lie, but would otherwise encourage the use of any means available to protect the nation from those who do not conduct war fair according to acceptable norms. When these terrorist bomb markets and churches, they remove from me any sense of moral quilt, and I say, turning them over to hatchet guys in foreign gov is great. Dang, I hope they renovated some of Saddam's torture rooms and put them to good use.

Jeane, I have a question for you. During court proceedings, witnesses are given documents to "refresh" their memory. Now special prosecutor should have obtained VP cheney's notes where Libby supposedly learned that Plames was a CIA operative. Now, after Libby testified he learned it from Russert et al, WHY NOT DID THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR put these notes in front of Libby to refresh his memory??? It seems to me that the special prosecutor was more interested in a GOTCHA charge, than obtaining the turth. Any Clues?

jesush DMR! What does shopping in a mall have to do with ANYTHING "holy?" And what does shopping have to do with the "spirit" of Christmas? You hypocritical SOB.

On a lighter note, best wishes to you, David, and to your family on this most American holiday.

We have an abundance of goodwill and much to be thankful for in this country...my hope is that we will use our goodwill and our broad minds to find a way out of this mess we are in. I will be very thankful for that.

#18
Derrick,
You wrote-
Well, I am not sure if physical torture has actually occur, but I can give guidance. The inquision used tortured, but it was against citizens, and that practice was banded against US police against citizens. The islamo-facist terrorist are not US citizens. OK, Geneva convention, soldiers respecting rules of war in uniform are given certain protections. The islamo-facists are not entitled to geneva protection....

...Our constitution never granted foreigner's rights, that you all seem to want to apply globally.
-----------------------
Huh? What?
Seriously guy, do you have shit for brains?

"We've been losing face for 10,000 years"

BEIJING, Nov. 24 -- The human face is shrinking. Research into people's appearance over the past 10,000 years has found that our ancestors' heads and faces were much larger than now.

Changes in diet are thought to be the main cause. The switch to softer, farmed foods means that jawbones, teeth, skulls and muscles do not need to be as strong as in the past.

The shrinkage has been blamed for a surge in dental problems caused by crooked or overlapping teeth.

"Over the past 10,000 years there has been a trend toward rounder skulls with smaller faces and jaws," said Clark Spencer Larsen, professor of anthropology at Ohio State University.

"This began with the rise in farming and the increasing use of cooking, which began around 10,000 years ago."

His conclusions are based on measurements from thousands of teeth, jawbones, skulls and other bones collected from prehistoric sites around the world.

He said: "Many men then would have had the shape of Arnold Schwarzenegger's head while women might have looked more like Camilla (the Duchess of Cornwall). By contrast, Tony Blair and George Bush are good examples of the more delicate modern form."

Other studies are confirming Larsen's findings. George Armelagos, professor of anthropology at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia, has made extensive measurements on people from Nubia in modern Egypt and Sudan to see how their appearance has changed.

Dr Simon Hillson, of the Institute of Archaeology at University College London, has studied humans living from 26,000 years ago to about 8,000 years ago. He measured 15,000 prehistoric teeth, jaws and skulls collected by museums around the world and found the same pattern of shrinking faces.

*****end of clip*****

ID would have to include shrinking heads and crooked teeth. Hmmmm

So the less evolved would have diastema through which they can spit and whistle past the graveyards.

capt

#15
Jerry Falwell would be proud.

Jeanne, I think Derrick Michael Reid is celebrating Thanksgiving with Wild Turkey or something even more potent and has damaged his shit for brains. WTF does this post of DMR's mean?

"The inquision used tortured, but it was against citizens, and that practice was banded against US police against citizens."

Caroline, "You hypocritical SOB" I hope you dont have high blood pressure, I would hate to charged by the far-left for intentional infliction of mental distress and resulting "wrongful death". I know there are secularist in here, and wanted to lay the guilt trip, apparently it worked. But really, I wont buy a "christmas" gift at any shop demeaning the holiday. I think there use to be a relationship between the buying gifts in shops for christmas, and the holiday christmas, apparently that has changed, as you seem to be correct in many regards, there is no longer anything HOLY about the Happy Holidays.

But I am curious, what mess are you referring? It seems to me that humanity continued its forward march, so do tell, as I dont want to poop in your mess kit and get trashed.

#22
Capt,
That's an interesting article. My daughter does some forensic facial stuff and her anthro teacher, a forenic anthropologist told her that the overbite many Americans have did not really exist even one hundred years ago. We are changing our facial structure with the processed food we eat.

Ah, referring to the Spanish Inquisistion that used torture to obtain confession from citizens. that practice was baned in the US, in that, the state could not use it against citizens, as part of the 5th amendment.

Jeane, there is a difference between an ALEIN and a US citizen, especially under equal protection, the rights have never been coextensive, under the constitution.

Derrick,
Lay off the Shirley Temples. You've had one too many.

Pandemonic,
I wanted you to know how much I enjoyed the breathtaking array of character you entertained us with in yesterdays posting.
I'm being serious. I know you're going to think I'm kidding but you remind me of Mark Twain. You should be writing fiction.

I'm at Crooks... listening to Andrea Mitchell eating her words. She's so full of it.
But the point is... I got my WMP working!
Don't ask me how, just smile and run with it! That's wtf I'm doing. haha
Going back to the old thread to finish 'em off.

The Trust is Gone

By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, November 23, 2005; 12:45 PM

Within official Washington, politicians and journalists keep going round and round about whether or not the Bush administration deliberately misled the public in the run up to war in Iraq.

But out there in America, it appears the general public has already made up its mind. In fact, a very solid majority of Americans apparently feels that the Bush administration is being consistently deceptive, on a wide array of issues.

*****end of clip*****

There is the rub for this WH. Hard to regain lost trust. It can be done. I think the easy way out of this is for the whole group to just come clean. That would show some integrity.

"Do not remove a fly from your friend's forehead with a hatchet." ~ Chinese Proverb

capt

I was walking through the surgery waiting room today and was stopped in my tracks by the story being displayed on FAUXSnooze...

Has the government of Great Britain actually threated legal action against any outlets reporting the latest leaked memo that shows that the (p)Resident of the United States of "Murcka" expressed the desire to bomb the headquarters of Al Jezeera in Quatar?

I re-watched "Orwell Rolls in his Grave" again the other day. Somebody hook up a generator to that boy, quick! Nobody'd ever have to drill ANWAR with a power source like the incredible spinning Orweil!

-I'm home on the dial-up, so my research into this will have to wait until tomorrow....But JESUS H. on a bike! I hope somebody shows them all the memos, so they'll know what it is they're NOT supposed to be reporting!

Oceana has ALWAYS been at war with Terror-istan!

with that, I wish all a happy food-coma and football!

-T

Haijji,
Raw Story reported on it. UK press gags news outlets over minutes of meeting discussing al Jazeera bombing

The Mirror, a UK publication which reported Tuesday on an alleged US plan to bomb an Arab TV station seen as anti-US, has been gagged from reporting any further on the memo and its contents by Attorney General Lord Goldsmith, RAW STORY has learned.

The publication reported on the contents of a five page memo, stamped Top Secret, alleging that President Bush had threatened to undertake military action against al-Jazeera, a TV station located in the country of Qatar. While al-Jazeera is seen by some in the Bush administration to be largely anti-West, Qatar is an American ally.

According to sources familiar with the case, it was the recent attack on Fallujah that had Bush concerned about what al-Jazeera might report...

...According to sources familiar with the case, the classified government memo, consisting of minutes of an April, 2004 meeting between UK Prime Minister Tony Blair and President Bush, described a disagreement between the two leaders over plans to silence anti-US sentiments in the middle-east.

The memo alleges that President Bush expressed his frustration with al-Jazeera, which is the equivalent of a large broadcast news company such as CNN and has a viewership of 50 million, and wanted to bomb their headquarters using US bombers stationed nearby.

Blair, according to the memo, dissuaded the President from this action because Qatar is an ally of the US and such an action would result in severe backlash.
-----------
Incidentally, isn't it sad that the people in the surgery lounge have to watch Fox News?

Cheney's trouble with the truth by Robert Scheer

You've got to hand it to Dick Cheney; no other modern politician has come so close to perfecting the theater of the absurd. Even as he protests his innocence of lying about matters of state, he lies about matters of state.

In two major speeches Friday and Monday, the vice president who has long insisted Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda were allies, Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, we would be greeted as liberators in Baghdad, and that the Iraqi insurgency is in its "last throes," again evidenced his trademark inability to speak the truth...

...First, he shamelessly repeated the absurd notion that a bum-rushed Congress, most of which does not have high security clearance, was privy to the same intelligence as he and his war-salesmen allies. In fact, not only was Cheney and his staff poring over the classified testimonials of an array of known liars, forgers, drunks, opportunists and desperate exiles we now know supplied White House speechwriters with their best lines, he also had access to the intelligence community's combined disclaimers, rebuttals and outright denunciations of these sources and their conveniently tawdry tales....

...The reality, however, is that while the Yalie president may not be the brightest star on the horizon, the owlish Cheney is nobody's dummy. What he is and has always been, is the most bald-faced of the administration's war hustlers, shamelessly peddling, for example, the cloak-and-dagger tale of a Hussein operative meeting with 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta in Prague long after U.S. intelligence had dismissed it.

Similarly, it was Cheney who was instrumental in getting Colin Powell to make the astonishing claims of the intelligence source code-named "Curveball" the centerpiece of the secretary of state's prewar presentation to the United Nations. Now, thanks to a definitive investigation by the Los Angeles Times published Sunday, we find out that top German intelligence sources in charge of interrogating Curveball had already declared him an unreliable source.

"You can't spin this. You've got to have a real solution. This is not a war of words, this is a war." said Congressman Murtha.

Yes, Cheney's war.
------------------------------------
Unlike the Bush Administration, the American public has to live in the real world. The ordinary citizens have to deal with the crimes committed, and the debt, and the sorrow inhabiting the homes of dead and wounded soldiers.

The Bush administration's psychopathic rational doesn't make any sense. Maybe people have decided to finally listen to what Bush and Cheney and Condi have to say and lo and behold it's a bunch of lies. Maybe that's why the support is plummeting. They are listening and realizing they voted for a monster. I'd be out there scraping off the bumper sticker off too if I voted for this crew.

Jeanne, I like Twain and his quotes. I read somewhere that he said History may not repeat itself but it seems to rhyme. As I read more and more about the goobers that currently control Congress and the White House, I find parallels in Nixon.

As for my contribution here, it's all meant to be humorous. I've been accused of hating George W. Bush, even by my wife. I don't hate, dislike, or harbor even the slightest ill will towards him. I wish him all the best as he is in charge of the most precious country in the world, in my opinion.

Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured.
--Mark Twain

Chimpy's a clown. He's funnier than a pile of 3 dollar bills. I remember first checking this site out and reading about Rove and Junior being freekin' geniuses. Being from Texas, I knew just what kind of dimwits these guys really were. It's just sad to see so many hard-working folks get sucked in and literally drowned by the inept management and sheer stupidity of the Cheney Administration.

Every once in a while, we get a Bushbot that can read and think his way out of a wet paper bag. They get sick of the jibes and the links and they bug out. As the Mayberry Machiavellians have dug themselves into a hole, legally, ethically, morally, politically, fewer and fewer of the GOP elite are willing to defend the idiocy. It's just plain sad to see the Bushbots get stupider and stupider. The only folks left defending the honor and integrity of the GOP are ill-informed teenagers like baf and doddering old fools like TimL. They are iron ore to the core.

Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold.
--Mark Twain

Gotta go get my mom-in-law from the airport. Happy Thanksgiving to all (even the Bushbots).

HAPPY THANKSGIVING you turkeys!

Err, make that a large "the works". And hurry up!

Leading Economic Indicators

Chief executive officers at 367 top U.S. corporations were paid, on average, $431 last year for every $1 paid to their companies' average production worker, according to publicly available information jointly compiled in September by Institute for Policy Studies and United for a Fair Economy. In 1990, the ratio was about $100-to-$1. (If the federal minimum wage had increased since 1990 by the same rate as the multiple for CEOs' pay, it would have risen from $5.15 an hour to $23.03, but, of course, it's still $5.15.) [New York Times, 9-4-05]

*****end of clip*****

Sounds fair?

capt

Double Standards in Assessing War Crimes

When used by Saddam, White Phosphorous Bombs are considered as Chemiical Weapons

When Saddam Hussein allegedly used white phosphorous bombs against the Kurds [see Department of Defense document below], he was accused of using illegal chemical weapons.

When the US uses white phosphorous bombs in Fallujah, they were not identifed as an illegal weapon. Document HERE

"The use of White phosphorus ("WP") may also be a war crime under other international treaties and domestic U.S. laws. For example, the Battle Book, published by the U.S. Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, contains the following sentence: "It is against the law of land warfare to employ WP against personnel targets." Indeed, it is interesting to note that the U.S. previously called white phosphorous a chemical weapon when Saddam used it against the Kurds."

*****end of clip*****

We are an aggressor nation that melts people with WP, tortures by extraordinary rendition, and take misguided preemptive actions in error.

capt

#39 should be:

Double Standards in Assessing War Crimes

capt

There you go again Capt with your moral equivalency, well, we condenm the use of chemical, biological or nuclear weapons by TERRORISTS, then we shouldn't use it either! lol

See Capt, you progressives have an extremely WARPED way of thinking. You're moral relativists, meaning, you don't make judgement calls on ANYONE. You DON'T see America as a force for good. And you progressives live in an idealistic peaches & cream world, where everyone is at peace and harmnony with each other. Sorry, but that's not how the world works.

Other than Pandemoniac, do you bush-hating progressives even acknowledge there is an ongoing war on terror against the Islamofascists, i.e al Qaeda?? Or is everything that's bad that happens in the world George W. Bush's fault?

Well, don't watch this on a full stomach, it'll likely make ya sick.

Rummy bobbin' and weavin'

Judge Rejects Challenge to Bush Education Law

WASHINGTON, Nov. 23 - A federal judge in Michigan on Wednesday dismissed a major challenge to the Bush administration's signature education program, No Child Left Behind, saying the federal government had the right to require states to spend their own money to comply with the law.

Bush informed in 2001 of lack of Iraq-Qaeda ties

Wed Nov 23, 3:39 PM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - US President George W. Bush was reportedly informed 10 days after the September 11, 2001 attacks that US intelligence had no proof of links between Iraq and that act of terror.

Citing government documents as well as past and present Bush administration officials, The National Journal said the president was briefed on September 21, 2001 that evidence of cooperation between Iraq and the Al-Qaeda terror network was insufficient.

Bush was also informed that there was some credible information about contacts between Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda that showed that the Iraqi dictator had tried to establish surveillance over the group, according to the report.

Saddam Hussein believed the radical Islamic network represented a threat for his secular regime.

Little additional evidence has emerged over the past four years that could contradict the CIA conclusion about a lack of a collaborative relationship between Al-Qaeda and Iraq, the Journal quotes a high-level government official as saying.

The magazine believes the evidence raises yet more questions about the administration's use of intelligence in the run-up to the war in Iraq.

*****end of clip*****

So Bush knew the illegal and unwise invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, that Iraq had not attacked us, that Iraq was not capable of attacking us. He knew Al Qaeda and Iraq were enemies. He knew, and he knows he lied.

Sixty three percent of Americans know he lied. Everybody knows who invaded whom and that the reasons for starting the Iraqi invasion was all based on lies.

capt

Iraq conflict still in early stages, report says

By Fiona Symon
November 23 2005 10:50

The war in Iraq is still in its early stages and US and British troops are likely to be bogged down in the conflict for decades, a report by the Oxford Research Group said on Wednesday.

The independent think tank’≥ report will make unwelcome reading for the British and US governments, both of which have indicated that they hope to begin reducing the number of troops in Iraq after the next Iraqi parliamentary elections in December.

It points to the growing numbers of civilian casualties, as well as the failure to control the insurgency, even with the use of overwhelming firepower, as with the assault on Fallujah last November, and concludes that the war in Iraq has been a ‘ßift’†for al-Qaeda.

Iraq has become a magnet for young jihadists, replacing Afghanistan as a combat training zone, even to the extent that jihadists from that country now travel to Iraq to gain combat experience, taking their skills back to Afghanistan to use against western forces there, it says.

Contrary to some claims, the insurgency is not diminishing and it is likely to prove very difficult to withdraw all the British troops from Iraq unless there is a major change of policy by the British government, risking a break with the United States, says the report.

*****end of clip*****

So they are lying AGAIN. The "happy talk" and draw-down scenario is just that "happy talk" intended to quell the exodus of one-time Bush supporters jumping ship like so many rats.

capt

Doubts grow over US Afghan strategy

Andrew North
BBC News, Kabul

It is four years since the fall of the Taleban regime. The United States has spent billions of dollars on its operations in Afghanistan - but what does it have to show for it?

With no end in sight to the insurgency led by remnants of that regime and insecurity still holding back development in large parts of the country, it is a question that many more people are asking.

There has been significant political progress, with the election of President Hamid Karzai last year and a new parliament due to convene next month after September's vote.

But it is almost as if this is happening in a parallel universe, some say. There is no sign of it translating into peace.

As the year nears an end, bombings and shootings continue almost daily in the south and east.

Such incidents have claimed at least 1,400 lives in the past year - the highest toll since 2001.

*****end of clip*****

Sure, things are going to swell we are negotiating with the Taliban.

capt

Majority Believe White House Misleads Public, Poll Shows

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE
November 23, 2005

A majority of U.S. adults believe the Bush administration generally misleads the public on current issues, while fewer than a third of Americans believe the information provided by the administration is generally accurate, the latest Harris Interactive poll finds.

While the telephone survey of 1,011 U.S. adults indicates about 64% of Americans believe the Bush administration "generally misleads the American public on current issues to achieve its own ends," opinion on the topic is clearly divided along party lines. A large majority (68% to 28%) of Republicans say the Bush administration generally provides accurate information. However, even larger majorities of Democrats (91% to 7%) and Independents (73% to 25%) think the information is generally misleading.

*****end of clip*****

Less than a third believe this WH is generally accurate?

capt

Scenes From A Bush Thanksgiving

Dubya pouts, Cheney scowls, no one brings pie -- and why is Rove looking at Barb that way?

By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist
Wednesday, November 23, 2005

Ah yes, it is that time again. The smell of roasting turkey and cigar smoke and Polo cologne, perfume like florid gasoline. Copious forced laughter that sounds like geese mating in a broom closet. It is Thanksgiving dinner at the Bush White House, where the guests mingle as though their genitals were being squeezed by manic elves, as if they were all coated in vanilla pudding being licked off by Pat Robertson. Which, truth be told, some of them seem to enjoy. A lot.

The banquet room reeks and coils and sighs. It is full of bleak energy and missed opportunities, spiritual paranoia and repressed desire and dishonest laughter. The turkey comes out dry. There is not enough pie for Dubya. Rumsfeld slurps his scotch, drunkenly. Dick eyes the dark thigh meat. Condi has to pee. There is little to be thankful for, inside this room.

Outside, however, among the nation's awakening throngs, gratitude and hope are beginning to swell and grow anew. Only three years left. It's long but not that long. Every person in that gloomy room will be gone. History. Nothing left but an ugly stain, oily residue, scar tissue. The room will be refreshed. The turkey will be moist. There will be more cranberry sauce. This dark, warmongering chapter will finally end. Pie all around.

It is not, the world realizes, too early to be thankful for that.

*****end of clip*****

A funny little romp.

capt

Hey DMR. Somebody better get you a dictionary for Kwanzaa/Xmas/Hannuka because you are atrocious. If you're the best the right wing stupid-heads could send here, then I feel bad.

As for the 'refresh your memory' gotcha for Libby. From what I have read, it appears that Libby has basically stumbled and bumbled his way through many different moments by sticking to a lie that he thought no one would catch him on. From what I've read, Fitzgerald and his staff have been quite surprised that he has stuck with the lie for so long. It's not a memory lapse. It's not a gotcha moment. It's hard core lying or it's someone who actually believes that what he is saying is true when all evidence points the other way.

Happy Holidays DMR. I know Santa is skipping your house this year because coal prices are up up up and you are not worth even one lump.

Texas Anti-War Protesters Still Determined

By ANGELA K. BROWN, Associated Press Writer
Nov 23

CRAWFORD, Texas - War protesters say they are determined to demonstrate outside President Bush's ranch during the Thanksgiving holiday despite the arrests of a dozen people on Wednesday.

The group had pitched six tents along the road in defiance of new local bans on roadside camping and parking. Many in the group held up signs, including one that said "Give me liberty or give me a ditch."

More than two dozen McLennan County sheriff's deputies arrived and asked if they wanted to walk out on their own or be carried. Two chose to be carried.

A dozen others left after deputies warned them they would be arrested.

The 12 arrested for criminal trespassing were released later in the afternoon on personal recognizance bonds and ordered to appear in court in January.

Among them was Daniel Ellsberg, the former Defense Department official who leaked the Pentagon Papers during the Vietnam war, who estimated it was his 70th arrest for various protests since the 1970s.

"Those of us who finally saw through the Vietnam war saw through this war, and all the actions that were necessary to end the Vietnam war will be necessary here," Ellsberg said Wednesday. "I think the American people will get us out of this (war)."

*****end of clip*****

Yes, the American people will get us out of this mess but the WH will have to be dragged kicking and screaming.

capt

Thanks Anti-DMR,

I hope you have a good thanksgivings.

Graduated from UC Berkeley engieering shcool in 2.5 years, never passed bone-head english, though, had to take a test to get out of it. Had the worst GPA possible in law school, as well, in night school, they kept telling me I could not write. Now a patent lawyer, though still have difficultly proof reading my own work, and there no freaking spell check on this cite. That's corny. Oh well, no one is perfect, and neither is W.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=0&p=1&f=S&l=50&Query=derrick+and+michael+and+reid%0D%0A&d=ptxt

Come on Cornnuts, help out here.

Jeane, I have a question for you. During court proceedings, witnesses are given documents to "refresh" their memory. Now special prosecutor should have obtained VP cheney's notes where Libby supposedly learned that Plames was a CIA operative. Now, after Libby testified he learned it from Russert et al, WHY NOT DID THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR put these notes in front of Libby to refresh his memory??? It seems to me that the special prosecutor was more interested in a GOTCHA charge, than obtaining the turth. Any Clues?

Anti-DMR:It's hard core lying or it's someone who actually believes that what he is saying is true when all evidence points the other way."

Witnesses often convince themselves through distorted reasoning that what believe is in fact what happened. This happens all the time, and can appear as prima facie perjury. Well I am not ready to conclude "BUSH LIED" or "LIBBY LIED", just yet, but that aint the issue. When ever I get a BOGUS answer during a deposition, I put the documents in front of the witness right away, TO GET TO THE TRUTH, then and there. So I am curious why that was not done. Special prosecutor seems more interested in getting a charge, rather than the truth. Maybe the alleged Russert conference occurred before the notes.

By-the-By as libby is nothing more than one of those belt-way whores, that panders the highest bidder, with an ESQ title, and if he did lie, I hope he fries. GD lawyers.

I could go to the OReilly chat room, and do some backslapping, as is often done in here, with all you cornnuts. Rather, I like direct confrontation to important issues. If we can by-pass the volgarity, I like to mix it it up, with opposing views, form hard-core lefties.

My big issue was militant Islam, and Bush's bold move to crack open the middle east towards civility while liberating 50,000,000 will always make W a hero in my book. Now, as far of the deficits and the border is concerned, I AM PISST at the Adm deleriction of duty.

Capt: Less than a third believe this WH is generally accurate?

As long as we grade on a curve, that aint so bad, look at what they said about lincoln.

It does now appear that you lefties are having some affect. The Bush team is now saying that draw down is likely next year, rather than merely saying stand-down stand-up. My Jan/05 prediction was that Iraq would settle down by end of 06, (just in time for the mid-term election). Mere coincidence or plan political maneuvering? Poll numbers can change quickly, and it seems that the Dems will have wait until 08 to possibly crack Reps hold on congress and prez. If between 07-08, Iraq settles down, and US deaths are minimal, which is expected, it seems that Rice will strounce (53-47) Hillary in 08. My dream ticket for 08 is Rice-Cox.

Also, if OBL is captured, if Iran signs off on the Russian deal, if Zawaqri is killed, if movement is made on the border to shut it down, it looks like to me that the next opportunity for the cornnuts is 2012 as the dem leadership moves towards the center. Can you all wait that long?

Christmas is a celebration of two distinct and separate occurrences. One is the birth of the baby Jesus, which is a religious celebration. One is the celebration of Saint Nicholas, Santa Claus, et al, which is basically secular in its' observance. No business has any obligation to promote a religious observance any more than any religion has any obligation to promote a secular observance. Last Christmas, my son participated in the Christmas mass. Santa Claus was no where to be found. I don't expect the three wise men or the Holy Father to greet me at the nearest Wal-Mart or Home Depot. If I want that, I go to church.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Capt, well only 10% of Americans think Bush orchestrated 9/11, so does that mean YOU'RE WRONG???

Capt, only 30% of Americans support partial-birth abortion, so does that mean YOU'RE WRONG???

Capt, only 40% of Americans support gay marriage, so does that mean YOU'RE WRONG???

Capt, only 10% of Americans are against Christianity, so does that mean YOU'RE WRONG???

Capt, only 10% of Americans think the terrorists that America is fighting are "freedom-fighters", so does that mean YOU'RE WRONG???

Capt, only 10% of Americans hate this country, so does that mean YOU'RE WRONG???

Capt, well only 10% of Americans think Bush orchestrated 9/11, so does that mean YOU'RE WRONG???

Capt, only 30% of Americans support partial-birth abortion, so does that mean YOU'RE WRONG???

Capt, only 40% of Americans support gay marriage, so does that mean YOU'RE WRONG???

Capt, only 10% of Americans are against Christianity, so does that mean YOU'RE WRONG???

Capt, only 10% of Americans think the terrorists that America is fighting are "freedom-fighters", so does that mean YOU'RE WRONG???

Capt, only 10% of Americans hate this country, so does that mean YOU'RE WRONG???

Time to talk: US engages the Taliban

By Syed Saleem Shahzad

KARACHI - Despite deposing the Taliban regime in Afghanistan in quick time at the end of 2001, the United States has not been able to rid the country of the Islamic hardliners, who four years later lead an Afghan resistance that shows no signs of abating, let alone buckling.

US efforts to combat the Taliban include outright military action (there are 18,000 US troops in the country, in addition to 12,000 members of North Atlantic Treaty Organization in the International Security Assistance Force), and attempts to embrace "good" Taliban.

And now, most significantly, come efforts to deal directly with the real "problem" - Taliban leader Mullah Omar, the only person with the ability to influence decisions of import related to the Taliban and their future activities in the country.

Reports emerged in the Pakistani media at the weekend that the US had contacted the Taliban leadership with the aim of establishing a truce in Afghanistan. The reported linkman is a Pakistani, Javed Ibrahim Paracha, but he has denied the story, saying he had never met any US officials, only US businessmen.

There is more to this story, though, according to information acquired by Asia Times Online.

In fact, the latest peace initiative was started a few months ago when the US realized, finally, that it simply was not making significant progress in stabilizing Afghanistan, despite the relatively successful conclusion of presidential and parliamentary elections.

*****end of clip*****

"the US realized, finally, that it simply was not making significant progress in stabilizing Afghanistan"

No success like failure.

capt

"And apologies for misspelling Jack Abramoff's name in the previous posting. One should be more respectful of the man who might bring down the GOP establishment."

David, you ARE joking, right? Is this the same abramohoff with ties to the alledged hijacker atta?

"If an American pilot is captured in the Middle East, then beaten, held naked in a cold cell and subjected to simulated drowning, will Mr. Goss say that he has not been tortured?

How, then, can CIA director Porter Goss--as well as his boss, George W. Bush--keep insisting that the US government does not engage in torture?"

Have you ever watched the Fox drama 24? If you have then you will know it's only torture if they do it to Americans. When we do it to others it is a matter of national security! You really must get the double standards correct!

Univ. of Kansas Takes Up Creation Debate

A course being offered next semester by the university religious studies department is titled "Special Topics in Religion: Intelligent Design, Creationism and other Religious Mythologies."

"The KU faculty has had enough," said Paul Mirecki, department chairman.

"Creationism is mythology," Mirecki said. "Intelligent design is mythology. It's not science. They try to make it sound like science. It clearly is not."

Earlier this month, the state Board of Education adopted new science teaching standards that treat evolution as a flawed theory, defying the view of science groups.

Although local school boards still decide how science is taught in the classrooms, the vote was seen as a major victory for proponents of intelligent design, which says that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power.

Critics say intelligent design is merely creationism — a literal reading of the Bible's story of creation as the handiwork of God — camouflaged in scientific language as a way to get around court rulings that creationism injects religion into public schools.

*****end of clip*****

Myth-heads so want to believe in their mythology that they would like to eliminate science. They do not have the "intelligence" to comprehend the more complex scientific concepts so the have to go with their simple misunderstandings in spite of science.

It is just too complicated for science. Sure.

capt

Capt,

We defeated the Taliban and elections have taken place in Afghanistan. We did not wipe the Taliban off the face of the planet, therefore, we must deal with what is still present in the country. The Taliban that remain are much like the Sunni in Iraq. They know well that they have no power or say so what-so-ever in the current government, unless they become involved in the political process. The Taliban and Sunni will always be a part of their respective countries, but their future will be determined by their participation in the political process.
Standing on the outside looking in will get them nowhere. Engaging them is only a way to invite them into the political process. Should they decline, I doubt there will be any effort to "kiss their behinds." There would be no reason to do so. The Taliban no longer holds the key to decision making in Afghanistan any more than the Sunni has in Iraq.

Alan 43, another brick yanked out of the wall!
TRH 58, that may be what Christmas is today, but go back a couple thousand years, the foundation is the Saturnalia, the celebration of the winter Solstice and the return of the sun to the northern skies which brought back the spring is where it began. That, to me, is at least a true celebration. Claiming Jesus was born in the winter time is lame at best!
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Confidence in Iraq Stability Falls to 32% in U.S.

(Angus Reid Global Scan) – More Americans are expressing unease about the future of Iraq, according to a poll by Harris Interactive. 32 per cent of respondents are confident that Iraq will be successful in developing a stable and reasonably democratic government, down nine points since June.

The United States-led coalition effort against Saddam Hussein’s regime was launched in March 2003. At least 2,097 American soldiers have died during the military operation, and more than 15,500 troops have been injured.

*****end of clip*****

Under a third. Like I said.

Like science, numbers are very confusing to the myth-heads.

We are now 2,100 deaths. How many more should die for a lie?

capt

DMR, I am thankful that you are no longer on my blog clogging it up with all of your bullshit and bullet points from the RNC.

When do you go to the NYPD Police Academy?

PS At least the Cornposters haven't been deluged with your incessant rants about logic! That's a reason to be thankful in itself! Happy Thanksgiving.

That's right TRH, we made sure that Bridas Corp. pipeline deal got yanked right out from under them! Another happy coincidence brought to you by that New Pearl Harbor known as 9/11.

arianna, my Christmas wish will be that people ignore him for the bush babbling idiot that he is so he will go back to the freepers like a good bushbot!

I don't understand what Anything Clinton may have said in 1998 has to do with the Administration's bait & switch sales job in 2002 and 2003? Did Iraq go into some sort of deep freeze or hibernation in between 1998 and 2002? Were there no inspections between 1998 and 2003? Had no one who had been in Iraq mentioned the lack of WMDs and nuclear arms in that country? If you knowingly feed someone bogus information and they repeat it, are they guilty of creating the bogus info or just of being duped?

Lets give up the notion that Bush, Cheney & Co. are honest upright individuals. They were liars then. They are liars now. Denying a lie does not make you honest. Refusing to acknowledge mistakes does not make you inerrant.

This country needs to move on and look a to a future where all citizens can prosper, not just those who can afford to hire lobbyists and bribe elected officials.

Mullah Omar and Hekmatyar can return home

KABUL, November 20 (Online): Sebghatullah Mujaddidi, chairman of the independent commission for peace and national reconciliation, has told a news conference that about 1,000 Taleban have already surrendered to the government.

He added that three cabinet ministers from the former Taleban regime were already in Kabul, and that he was asking Taleban supreme leader Mullah Omar and his ally Hizb-e-Islami Gulbuddin Hekmatyar to return to their homeland.

Mujaddidi said it would be up to parliament to decide whether pardon these two men for their past and current actions. While Mullah Omar was a toy in the hands of the ISI [Pakistan intelligence agency], which continues to organise and resupply the Taleban to cross the border and kill our soldiers and policemen, Hekmatyar is a rebellious soul and a highly Machiavellian individual.

When he was prime minister in the mujahedin government [of the Nineties], he made and broke a number of agreements with other factions. However, he was not alone in destroying areas of the Afghan capital - other mujahedin leaders were also involved.

We hope cooperation between the two neighbouring Muslim states will be enhanced by the work of the tripartite [with the US] commission, so that more Taleban can surrender and live in peace with their compatriots.

End.

*****end of clip*****

Mullah Omar was the enemy, he hid OBL and still supports his hiding.

No biggie, just give him back a city to run. Were we bringing freedom and spreading democracy and have we mentioned that to Mullah Omar?

You apologists ought to read something before you speak on subject you obviously know little or nothing about. The Mullah is responsible for the deaths of American soldiers.

Maybe we should include a medal of freedom to oppress with the key to the city?

You pro-war freaks crack me up!

This whole mess started with Mullah Omar.

capt

No Space At The Table
From: Tom Paine

Liz Stanton
November 23, 2005

Liz Stanton is the research director of United for a Fair Economy, an independent, national non-profit that spotlights the growing economic divide in the U.S.

President Bush agrees that creating good jobs is a priority. He has repeatedly promised that his large-scale tax cuts will grow the economy and create new jobs. So should families planning their Thanksgiving feasts be giving thanks to the tax cuts for having created a plethora of new jobs?

Resoundingly, no. The Bush tax cuts did not produce new jobs. In 2003, the President's Council on Economic Advisers promised 5.5 million new jobs by 2004, but only 2.6 million jobs were actually created. The jobs created failed to even match the 4.1 million new jobs expected in a normally functioning economy, let alone one supposedly supercharged by tax cuts. Yet that hasn't stopped conservative forecasters from chanting the "tax cuts create jobs" mantra in 2005.

The quality of jobs, measured by income, health insurance and retirement benefits, has also declined appreciably since the 2001 tax cuts. Between 2000 and 2004, inflation-adjusted family income declined, and the number of U.S. workers covered by employer-provided retirement benefits and health insurance contracted.

One of many reasons that tax cuts are a shaky formula for increasing jobs is that tax cuts mean less government revenue and therefore fewer public-sector jobs. Some tax revenues are spent hiring government workers (direct job creation), as well as purchasing goods and services from private businesses (indirect job creation). Tax cuts may eventually stimulate investment that may generate some new jobs, but less government revenue will eliminate jobs at the same time, offsetting any positive job growth.

Tax cuts are an unsound prescription for job creation and economic good health, and more and more people recognize that relentless tax cutting, far from creating new jobs, has instead created a staggering deficit that threatens our children. Asked in an April 2004 CNN poll to choose between the 2003 tax cuts and a job creation program, 76 percent of respondents chose jobs; 50 percent chose deficit reduction over tax cuts; and 60 percent said they had not benefited from tax cuts.

The wisdom of the people's choice is reflected by the conservative chairman of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan, who said on Nov. 4: "We should not be cutting taxes by borrowing...We do not have the capability of having both productive tax cuts and large expenditure increases, and presume (sic) that the deficit doesn't matter."
--------------
greenspan is an idiot and is, in large part, why we are in this mess. But then, that was part of the plan wasn't it? It's impossible to rape and pillage when everyone's secure and happy!

Taliban Leader Mullah Omar Calls For Mujahideen In Afghanistan To Unite

Nov 03, 2005
By Ahmad Al-Marid, JUS Afghan Correspondent

Taliban Supreme Leader and Commander of the Faithful Mullah Omar has issued a statement urging the Mujahideen to unite and warned of an increase in Taliban operations, while their Mujahideen killed five police in a mountain ambush in southern Afghanistan.

The statement, in Omar’≥ native Pashto-language was e-mailed to news agencies on Tuesday by Abdul Hai Mutmahin, one of the newly appointed spokesmen for the Taliban following Abdul Latif Hakimi’≥ arrest.

"I call upon the Muslim nation to be united against the clever occupation force until the aggressors leave our soil. Fighting jihad is an obligation. Abandoning jihad is a big sin and a cause for humiliation of Muslims. Stand with us with your resources, with your lives."

Omar also warned that the group will "intensify their attacks against the occupiers."

Meanwhile, Taliban Mujahideen killed five Afghan policemen after a fierce four-hour battle in the Bahramcha area of Helmand province on the border with Pakistan late Tuesday. Taliban spokesman Qari Mohammed Yousuf Ahmadi, told AFP in a telephone call the their Mujhideen had arrested five policemen on patrol and beheaded them.

*****end of clip*****

This is from three (that is 3) weeks ago?

I guess we are surrendering?

I cannot understand how the pathetic apologists can make excuses for ANYTHING. Never even considering the miserable failure steering our ship of state into the rocks.

"Stay the course" - of course. The binary thinking is too apparent and too incompetent to see through the fog of lies and miscalculations that have us negotiating with EFFIN MULLAH OMAR.

capt

Iraqis miss oil fortune: report

AFP | November 24 2005

Up to $US194 billion ($263 billion) in Iraqi oil revenues are going to multinational oil companies under long-term contracts, and not to the Iraqi people, a social and environmental group said.

In a report, the group known as Platform said that oil multinationals would be paid between $US74 billion and $US194 billion with rates of return of between 42 per cent and 162 per cent under proposed production-sharing agreements, or PSAs.

"The form of contracts being promoted is the most expensive and undemocratic option available," Platform researcher Greg Muttitt said.

"Iraq's oil should be for the benefit of the Iraqi people not foreign oil companies."

Muttitt added: "Iraq's institutions are new and weak. Experience in other countries shows that oil companies generally get the upper hand in PSA negotiations with governments.

"The companies will inevitably use Iraq's current instability to push for highly advantageous terms and lock Iraq to those terms for decades."

The report, titled Crude Designs: The Rip-Off of Iraq's Oil Wealth, said the majority of Iraqis were against the large-scale involvement of foreign companies in the post-Saddam era.

"Iraqi public opinion is strongly opposed to handing control over oil development to foreign companies," it said.

"But with the active involvement of the US and British governments a group of powerful Iraqi politicians and technocrats is pushing for a system of long-term contracts with foreign oil companies which will be beyond the reach of Iraqi courts, public scrutiny or democratic control."

Under PSAs, foreign companies provide capital investment, including drilling and the construction of infrastructure, and a proportion of oil extracted is allocated to the companies.

But Platform's report alleged that financing oil development could be done instead though government budgetary expenditure, using future oil flows as collateral to borrow money, or using international oil companies through shorter-term and less lucrative contracts.

Louise Richards, chief executive of aid charity War on Want, said: "People have increasingly come to realise that the Iraq war was about oil, profits and plunder."

"Iraq's oil profits, far from being used to alleviate some of the suffering the Iraqi people now face, are well within the sights of the oil multinationals."
------------
The oil companies get the upper hand in EVERY pie! No Thanksgiving for Iraq, ever again.

Neocon guests went for a walk. Here is Karen's ten political blessings on this Thanksgiving Day. Pray for our soldiers in harm's way. We see the disintegration of American foreign policies because war is outmoded.

Ten Political Blessings

Hope you have a nice holiday Gerald, in spite of the unpleasant guests!

Power Uber Alles

by Paul Craig Roberts

The next time Bush declares that "they (Muslims) hate us for our freedom and democracy," someone should ask him how there can be freedom and democracy without habeas corpus.

The Bush administration has also resurrected that second great feature of tyranny –†torture. "We have the right to torture," say President Bush, Vice President Cheney, and Attorney General Gonzales.

What a hypocritical spectacle the Bush administration and the Republican Party have made of America. They boast of "freedom and democracy" while they destroy habeas corpus and practice torture.

Americans must recognize the Bush administration and the Republican Party for what they are. They are tyrants. They are bringing evil to the world and tyranny to America.

*****end of clip*****

If the Muslims hate our freedom why are we delivering the prize to them by taking away our rights and freedoms?

They are winning because Bunnypants is an evil force against freedom.

capt

Gerald,
Take deep breaths Gerald. No throwing food. We're counting on you to behave and we are sending you good thoughts. Feel the beam.
Happy Thanksgiving!!!!

Alan,
Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

Now off to make vegetarian dressing. YES it is good. Stop being mean.

Speaking of what a good thing it is to torture..

_____________

"One review, completed in spring 2004 by the C.I.A. inspector general, found that Mr. Mohammed had been subjected to excessive use of a technique involving near drowning in the first months after his capture, American intelligence officials said."
____________

From Today's NYT
________________

The focus of the article is on how Jose Padilla cannot be charged with the most serious crimes he's been accused of (and imprisoned for 3 years for) because the only thing that links him to those (alleged) crimes are statements made by "witnesses" who were being tortured.

Additionally, any information gained from him WHILE he was in military custody (pretty much since his arrest) is likewise inadmissable.

Yet Cheney still lobbies congress to grant exemptions for the CIA and Miltary Intelligence (sic) to do those very things that keep justice from occuring.

So, even old nazi Torturers (as opposed to the "Neoconazis") say that information extracted by torture is rarely, if ever, useful. The DOJ can't use any of that info for prosecution. The very acts will prove detrimental to any case linked to them...

Such acts and the institutionalization of American torture gives rise to international complaints of the US using other Nation's airspace to commit acts international illegality.

Yet still they deny, althewhile trying to change the laws to retroactively create an enviroment for the acceptance of the very horrors they're lying about! (Orwell completes another revolution)

Today, I'm thankful for the slow awakenings and the beginnings of the opening of the eyes of Americans to what our Government is and has been doing in our names.

I only hope enough people are as horrified as I am, and motivated to speak out.

-T

American Soldiers

2,348 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan for Bush’≥ evil lies.

16,000+ American soldiers have been maimed in Iraq and Afghanistan for Bush’≥ evil lies.

40,000+ American soldiers are suffering from PTSD.

Over 100,000+ Iraqis have been killed in Iraq since Bush declared shock and awe bombings on March 19, 2003.

Are you feeling more safe and secure with Bush in the WH and Cheney as his chief hatchet man overseeing America and her people.

American elections are rigged to favor the repugnants.

We will have to see how events play out. Seymour Hersh (when he was asked to comment about the 2004 election)

Bush will declare martial law in 2008 and the elections will be suspended.

Our military men and women are used as cannon fodder for a terrorist American government.

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we. George W. Bush, August 5, 2005

THE GLORY OF BUSH IS MAN FULLY DEAD!!!

This war in Iraq really pisses me off!!!!!

Rigged elections doom American democracy. American soldiers are being killed and maimed TO PROMOTE AN AMERICAN NAZI STATE.

THE GLORY OF GOD IS MAN FULLY ALIVE. St. Irenaeus

I shall pass this way but once. Any good that I can do let me do it now for I shall not pass this way again. St. Ambrose

We must work tirelessly for man to be fully alive.

Reply to #77

Good point, capt. Al Qaeda wins every time our freedoms are hampered by the Patriot Act. In fact, this was and is part of their agenda. Osama bin Laden said this. His latest fatwa is to destroy our financial system. I think he has a fat chance but it was a fat chance that he would destroy tall buildings. He warned us of this as well and we didn't listen. Sadly, we're wasting our time and resources in Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11. Again, Al Qaeda is winning.

"War is out-mooted", really, where was that published, NY times. Actually, you are correct, in the out years. In 30 years of so, after the middle east chills out, (from Bush's bold leadership), attention will turn to Africa, taking down bad boys there, as the world colleses in a united front, the UN becoming RELEVANT once again. So, out-mooted, not just yet, but we are getting there.

"No business has any obligation to promote a religious observance any more than any religion has any obligation to promote a secular observance." Well I guess that says it all, so why dont just face reality, and remove christmas from the calendar? If is not celebrated for what it is, why play along with the farce, if christmas is dead. The "business" would have a fit, as they count on the "giving" spirit OF CHRISTMAS to make the year end buck. Oh, I get it, dont take away the holiday, just call it something else, so not to offend the secularists. You all are great with your "merry christmases" yet think that store "have no obligation" to call it what it is. How about FRAUD, DECEPTION, or the DEVIL's day, or the Athesists' day, should not it be called "winter break", or something else. You all like tradition, pretent to wish all a merry christmas, yet dont recognize it as such and think commercial practices away from chrismas is ok. Confused? I guess there is really a war on christmas, but then, I thought war was out-mooted.

Iraq Conflict

Have a great day! I can survive because I do my own thing with guests. I can either talk or remain silent. I find things to do to keep away from disagreements.

DO NOT REMOVE A FLY FROM YOUR FRIEND'S FOREHEAD WITH A HATCHET. Chinese proverb

Iraq Conflict

Have a great day! I can survive because I do my own thing with guests. I can either talk or remain silent. I find things to do to keep away from disagreements.

DO NOT REMOVE A FLY FROM YOUR FRIEND'S FOREHEAD WITH A HATCHET. Chinese proverb

Islam and the Western Media
Stereotypes and misconceptions about Islam in the media are rooted in prejudice, and ignorance, says Bassil Akel.

A negative image of Islam is becoming more inherent in the Western culture from inaccurate media coverage. The media helps to make an image of Islam to unsuspecting audiences. The Western public often is misinformed about Muslims through the images on television, motion picture screens, magazines, radios, and comic strips in newspapers, which promote strong messages among their audiences. Western reporters often say that Muslims are terrorists. This becomes a common image to the general person that all Muslims are terrorists. Edward Said's book, Covering Islam, talks about how the media and experts determine how we see the rest of the world.
-------------
Another very good article speaking truth. Gerald, I hope you in particular will take time to read it. The lies and misrepresentations are the reason for the misery in the middle east. Note to bushbots, not for closed minded, bigoted haters.

1-800-USA-ARMY

Let me start by saying for all of you who love Bush as your god, join the military services at 1-800-USA-ARMY.

I hate this war with Iraq because it is a wrong and an immoral war. As the death toll of American soldiers rise, I am more furious because these soldiers have been killed for the Bush lies, for oil, for us to bring down Saddam Hussein and replace him with a more corrupt government. In my readings Iraq is a very corrupt government. We have American soldiers killed not to spread democracy but to establish a corrupt government. How do the parents and loved ones feel about their sons, daughters, husbands, and wives being killed for a corrupt government?

Bush, cheney, rumsfeld, and a host of other regime officials are nothing more than scumbags, slime balls, and low life sludges. These people are perverse, demented, depraved, and deranged creatures.

Anyone who voted for these murderous thugs are accomplices in the murder of American soldiers and the Iraqi people.

1-800-USA-ARMY

Let me start by saying for all of you who love Bush as your god, join the military services at 1-800-USA-ARMY.

I hate this war with Iraq because it is a wrong and an immoral war. As the death toll of American soldiers rise, I am more furious because these soldiers have been killed for the Bush lies, for oil, for us to bring down Saddam Hussein and replace him with a more corrupt government. In my readings Iraq is a very corrupt government. We have American soldiers killed not to spread democracy but to establish a corrupt government. How do the parents and loved ones feel about their sons, daughters, husbands, and wives being killed for a corrupt government?

Bush, cheney, rumsfeld, and a host of other regime officials are nothing more than scumbags, slime balls, and low life sludges. These people are perverse, demented, depraved, and deranged creatures.

Anyone who voted for these murderous thugs are accomplices in the murder of American soldiers and the Iraqi people.

Joe Tully: we're wasting our time and resources in Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11. Again, Al Qaeda is winning.

If you take a narrow perspective, Saddam's Iraq was not an immediate threat, and that 9/11 was a mere criminal act, they you limited in your thinking, and hence, limited in your response, and are doomed to cowardly retreat as in the Neanderthals. If you take a broad perspective, the war on terror will never be won until democracies are stood up with governements that will sit on the crazies, and 9/11 is not a criminal act but part of a comprehesive global struggle between the civilized world and the islamo-factists, then you act boldly in the middle east, (as did bush), and you provide a comprehensive attack on the islamo-facists having a end game of long term peace, and would not then have to hide in your cave in perpetuity. You all claim foul re the patriot act, yet think that losing right to conduct world trade can be given up, at the drop of a hat, or a plane into the WTC.

Sure it is perspective. I take broad view, and dont want to be a self-limiting neanderthal. This is of course, policy, and you all should at least acknowledge that the forward defense policy is a legitmate one. Bush won the election, and that was general acceptance of that broad view. Sure I wish it as simple as you all make it out to be, but it aint. Capturing OBL and placing him in prison on a criminal charge would not end the islamo-facist mentality, would you not agree. When the WTC went down, I wanted WAR!!! and think the prosecution in Iraq is necessary and must be completed satisfactory, or we will live in our cave under constant fear of Attack. No, I dont buy into Fortress America, and the cowardly retreat into our caves, but rather, fully support the forward defense and the eventual civilization of militant Islam, so my children dont have to live in constant fear.

Thanks for the insults but I think you have to understand the even the term Islamofacsist doesn't reflect reality. The reality is that Iraq is a breeding ground for future terrorists. In the meantime, Al Qaeda continues to plot and plan and nothing is being done about that.

You can have your broader view. Iraq hardly should have fit into the picture.

"His latest fatwa is to destroy our financial system. "

Of course it is pretty easy to do so with the failed policies driving our economy into the ground.

They are famous for making fatwa as a prediction of the future as much as trying to cause influence by the same.

That way when it happens they can claim to be the driving force.

The economy tanking has been headed south for many years under many administrations, I think they see Bush as the coup de grace.

capt

Here is a helpful hint for you dems, next time US is at WAR, dont nominate an anti-intel, anti-arm, anti-war peace guy. Get it? I still can not believe how stupid were the Dems to put up Kerry and mother teresa wanting to be the mom to all the gays. When you rant and rave from the far left, you push away the reasonable center support. Hillary is no dummie, and is moving towards the center, which is the correct response in a democracy, so why dont you all get real and practicable, and get with the program.

capt,

Exactly. It is in Al Qaeda's interest to view the USA negatively. They relish in our troubles.

In the end, I believe we will win out. I just can't stand to see Iraq diverting us from the real problem.

Joe: The reality is that Iraq is a breeding ground for future terrorists. In the meantime, Al Qaeda continues to plot and plan and nothing is being done about that.

Joe, no insult intended, just to view opposing view in perspective. If you say that Iraq is a breeding ground, would not you want to destroy that breeding ground, and who not free expressions limit need to resort to terror to make the political point?

Are You Brainwashed? Part 1 By Lonnie Wolfe

Are you brainwashed? What about some of your neighbours, are they brainwashed? Before you answer that, let us ask you a few preliminary questions: Do you believe that the United States was struck by a terrorist attack on Sept. 11? Do think that the people behind that attack were Arabs and that its Mastermind was this fellow Osama bin Laden, operating from a cave in Afghanistan? Do you believe that the way to stop terrorism is to hit them hard, to hit them at their Bases in such places as Afghanistan, and to hit the nations who might sponsor them, like, say Iraq?

...So, the question is, really, how did you get this way? How did you come to believe things like those statements in the first questions were true? Well, I heard it on.... Well, I saw it on.... Well, I read it in....

You needn't bother finishing those statements; we can do it for you: You, and your neighbours were told the truth by the mass media. The American News media, which is so proud of calling itself Free, and has been patting itself on it back for the wonderful job it has done for all us during and after Sept. 11, is the largest, most expensive, mass-brainwashing machine ever assembled in human history. It is a machine that so completely brainwashes the nearly 300 millions Americans, that the Nazis' infamous Propaganda Minister Josef Goebbels would be envious.
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Make absolutely sure you do not, under ANY circumstances, give thought to the alternative.

DMR,

I'd be more afraid of having your children's minds infected by your "Ends justifies the means" mentality of getting what you desire at any cost.

I fear for the children of those who'd try to capitalize on the fears of the masses to foward an agenda of their own twisted view of some "future perfect" (not that you understand tenses) at the expense of the slaughter of hundreds of thousands (tens of millions, likely, if your view forward is correct) of innocent men, women and children.

I fear for the minds of ANYONE's children that would be infected with such.

In the end, I believe we will win out. I just can't stand to see Iraq diverting us from the real problem.

I agree Joe, and I consider the middle east a done deal, in the out years, but disagree that Iraq is a diversion, as Iraq still think 40% its ok to kill americans. Now, do you want that to Breed. Your cave, ala WTC, is not that safe, you know.

Hajji, we all dont want war. So I ask you, how many more 9/11s would you be willing to absorb until you became a war hawk? 2 5 10 none?

If you can project, you would have to agree there is a serious threat. The white flag aint going to stop them. So what is your solution? Please do tell.

NEW IDEA FOR ABORTION PARTY: AID THE ENEMY By Ann Coulter
Wed Nov 23,11:23 PM ET

In the Iraq war so far, the U.S. military has deposed a dictator who had already used weapons of mass destruction and would have used them again. As we now know, Saddam Hussein was working with al-Qaida and was trying to acquire long-range missiles from North Korea and enriched uranium from Niger.

Saddam is on trial. His psychopath sons are dead. We've captured or killed scores of foreign terrorists in Baghdad. Rape rooms and torture chambers are back in R. Kelly's Miami Beach mansion where they belong.

The Iraqi people have voted in two free, democratic elections this year. In a rash and unconsidered move, they even gave women the right to vote.

Iraqis have ratified a constitution and will vote for a National Assembly next month. The long-suffering Kurds are free and no longer require 24/7 protection by U.S. fighter jets.

Libya's Moammar Gadhafi has voluntarily dismantled his weapons of mass destruction, Syria has withdrawn from Lebanon, and the Palestinians are holding elections.
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blahblahblah. This explains the bushbots. They are actually spouting the same lying rhetoric as the psychotic coulter. GAG!

Joe: "Ends justifies the means" mentality

I would say its more like, the means fits the crime.

The point is that the terrorists were never Iraqis. They were Saudi Arabians and Jordanians. Why not bomb them according to your line of thought. I don't think we can win the war against terrorists militarily.

I believe that we are creating new terrorists not related to Al Qaeda in Iraq today. The insurgency isn't that different from what would happen rig