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		< Previous \| Main \| Next > October 22, 2005 NY Times Making Progress on Miller Mess?/Trusting Libby? The wheels of The New York Times turn slowly, but perhaps they are moving in the right direction. On Friday, executive editor Bill Keller sent out a memo in which he offered a "first cut" at the "lessons we have learned" from the Judy Miller mess. The memo was no defense of Miller and the Times. To his credit, Keller starts with the original sin in the Miller scandal: her problematic prewar reporting on Iraq's WMD, which relied too heavily on administration and Iraqi exile sources and which, consequently (and perhaps purposefully) hyped a nonexistent threat. Keller, who was not the top editor when Miller ran amok on this story, wrote, I wish we had dealt with the controversy over our coverage of WMD as soon as I became executive editor. At the time, we thought we had compelling reasons for kicking the issue down the road. The paper had just been through a major trauma, the Jayson Blair episode, and needed to regain its equilibrium. It felt somehow unsavory to begin a tenure by attacking our predecessors. I was trying to get my arms around a huge new job, appoint my team, get the paper fully back to normal, and I feared the WMD issue could become a crippling distraction. So it was a year before we got around to really dealing with the controversy. At that point, we published a long editors' note acknowledging the prewar journalistic lapses, and--to my mind, at least as important--we intensified aggressive reporting aimed at exposing the way bad or manipulated intelligence had fed the drive to war. (I'm thinking of our excellent investigation of those infamous aluminum tubes, the report on how the Iraqi National Congress recruited exiles to promote Saddam's WMD threat, our close look at the military's war-planning intelligence, and the dissection, one year later, of Colin Powell's U.N. case for the war, among other examples. The fact is sometimes overlooked that a lot of the best reporting on how this intel fiasco came about appeared in the NYT.) By waiting a year to own up to our mistakes, we allowed the anger inside and outside the paper to fester. Worse, we fear, we fostered an impression that The Times put a higher premium on protecting its reporters than on coming clean with its readers. If we had lanced the WMD boil earlier, we might have damped any suspicion that THIS time, the paper was putting the defense of a reporter above the duty to its readers. This is a serious admission. Might Keller feel his leadership at the TImes is in jeopardy? Or is he simply being a mensch? I do wonder why there has been no disciplining of Miller for her botched coverage of the WMD issue. Keller is acknowledging these "journalistic lapses" were significant and that they had a negative impact on the newspaper. So why were the people responsible for these mistakes not held accountable? After all, they caused more harm to the paper than did Jayson Blair. Keller does not write about Miller's lead role in the WMD fiasco. But he does criticize her--and himself--for actions taken (and not taken) during the leak investigation. Keller notes that he was negligent by not fully examining Miller's involvement in the leak story and that he missed "significant alarm bells." He also says that Miller was not forthcoming with the paper and that she even misled an editor: Until Fitzgerald came after her, I didn't know that Judy had been one of the reporters on the receiving end of the anti-Wilson whisper campaign. I should have wondered why I was learning this from the special counsel, a year after the fact. (In November of 2003 [Washington bureau chief] Phil Taubman tried to ascertain whether any of our correspondents had been offered similar leaks. As we reported last Sunday, Judy seems to have misled Phil Taubman about the extent of her involvement.) This alone should have been enough to make me probe deeper. Indeed. He should have probed deeper. But what will Keller do, if anything, about Miller misleading Taubman? He doesn't say. And he insists that fighting Fitzgerald in court was still necessary, with this caveat: if I had known the details of Judy's entanglement with [Scooter] Libby, I'd have been more careful in how the paper articulated its defense, and perhaps more willing than I had been to support efforts aimed at exploring compromises. And Keller seconds an email sent by Richard Stevenson, a Washington correspondent for the newspaper, who wrote: I think there is, or should be, a contract between the paper and its reporters. The contract holds that the paper will go to the mat to back them up institutionally--but only to the degree that the reporter has lived up to his or her end of the bargain, specifically to have conducted him or herself in a way consistent with our legal, ethical and journalistic standards, to have been open and candid with the paper about sources, mistakes, conflicts and the like, and generally to deserve having the reputations of all of us put behind him or her. The implication here, of course, is that Miller did not hold up her end of that bargain. And Keller seems to be agreeing with that. So what might be her future at the paper? Keller provides no hint, and he notes that he and the top editors of the Times will continue to wrestle with the remaining issues "in the coming weeks." For anyone rooting for the Times to remedy the Miller problem, Keller's memo was more encouraging than the articles the paper published a week ago. But, curiously, Keller did not address one of the key credibility issues created by the Miller controversy. In her first-person account--which ran last weekend and which her attorney, Robert Bennett, now says the Times forced her to publish against his advice to her--Miller noted that she agreed to Libby's request to be identified as an anonymous "former Hill staffer" when he was passing her negative information on former Ambassador Joseph Wilson. That is, Miller colluded with a senior White House official--Dick Cheney's chief of staff--to camouflage a White House attack on Wilson, a critic of the administration. This violated the Times' rules for anonymous sourcing. (Reporters are supposed to identify an anonymous source with as much information as possible so readers can determine if the source is pushing an agenda.) Put aside Miller's sloppy and misleading mission-driven WMD coverage, her inability to remember which source told her about "Valerie Flame," her suspicious discovery of a notebook referencing a conversation with Libby she had not originally told the special prosecutor about, and the gap between her absolutist, fighting-for-a-principle rhetoric about her imprisonment and the fact that she had tried to negotiate a compromise to avoid going to jail, the episode in which she offered to mislead her readers about a White House source to facilitate an administration assault on a policy critic, is the most clear-cut example of Miller's bad behavior. Yet, as far as I can tell, Keller and the Times have not acknowledged this piece of the Miller mess. Still, Keller's memo is evidence that he finally comprehends what a jam Miller created for the newspaper and that he understands the troubles began before Fitzgerald came knocking. This is progress. And it's no accident that the day after Keller circulated his memo, The Washington Post ran a piece by Howard Kurtz--headlined, "A Split The Times & Miller"--that quoted Bennett, Miller's lawyer, bitching about the Times. The article notes that Miller would not cooperate with the Times reporters working on the paper's account of the Miller case until 24 hours before the deadline for the story. And Bennett downplayed the significance of Miller's inability to remember the first conversation she had with Libby about Joseph Wilson (in which Libby may have mentioned Wilson's wife, the undercover CIA official, weeks before she was outed in a July 14, 2003 Bob Novak column.) The fact that Bennett (and apparently Miller, too) felt it was necessary for Bennett to defend Miller after Keller had disseminated his memo is a sign that the kinship Keller and Miller displayed in public when they were presenting her as a Joan of Arc for modern-day journalism has deteriorated. (And see Maureen Dowd's acerbic slam at Miller in Saturday's Times, in which she opines that if Miller returns to the newspaper after her book leave is done untold damage will ensue.) Perhaps this will allow Keller to remedy further the problems that Miller has caused for his paper. Perhaps denial has transformed into acceptance, and Keller and the paper are ready for hard work of recovery. ***** TRUSTING LIBBY.** Thanks to Michael Isikoff for the shout-out. On HuffingtonPost.com, he writes, Forget the aspens turning in clusters--or, for at least the next couple of days, the prospect of indictments. (Nothing, it now seems, until next week.) The real story of last weekend's Judy Miller revelations is not what Scooter Libby may have told her about Joe Wilson's wife. It is how Libby clearly, and unequivocally, misrepresented the contents of the classified National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) about Iraqi WMD. Save for the estimable David Corn of the Nation, nobody has picked up on this. But it's huge. At a time when questions about the Bush administration's case for war were beginning to mount, Libby assured Miller: Don't worry, there's still secret stuff out there that will prove we were right all along. As a Washington reporter who frequently writes about intelligence matters, I can assure you, this is the way it always works: "Trust me," the high level government official will tell you, "if you knew what I knew--if you could read the top secret reports I've read--you'd know why we're doing this." Only in this case, we know what Libby told Miller at their two hour breakfast at the Ritz Carleton Hotel on July 8, 2003, wasn't true. For Isikoff's full examination of how Libby tried to mislead Miller (who seems to have been rather willing to be misled) about the prewar intelligence, see his "Terror Watch" column (written with Mark Hosenball) here. Posted by David Corn at October 22, 2005 03:29 PM Comments 1 This is great reading! I just hope numerous inditements come next week. Posted by: Marshall at October 22, 2005 03:48 PM 2 (And see Maureen Dowd's acerbic slam at Miller in Saturday's Times, in which she opines that if Miller returns to the newspaper after her book leave is done untold damage will ensue.) It is behind the TimesSelect firewall. Another reason to be pissed at the NYTimes, even for those of us who grew up holding the grey lady in high regard. ********* Some regular posters here may know that I like to play with words, especially when there are multible definitions, so I couldn't pass this one up. The number one definition of estimable is: "capable of being estimated" according to Mirriam-Webster online. The number three definition is: "worthy." Probably that's the one that Isikoff had in mind of course... Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 04:03 PM 3 Damn, some days I can't get things right..."worthy of esteem." Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 04:07 PM 4 Halliburton's New Low in Treachery By Dave Zweifel The Madison Capital Times Uhh, wasn't the British Navies' kidnapping of US sailors to man their ships one of the reasons for the War of 1812? Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 04:19 PM 5 Mr. David Corn, Of course:"Save for the estimable David Corn of the Nation, nobody has picked up on this. But it's huge." Seems to me you ALWAYS have a good take on things. High fives! Thanks Kirk Posted by: capt at October 22, 2005 04:20 PM 6 In the background of the current scandal, thoughts go back to the Dan Rather/ National Guard story. What was its origin and how did the Rebublican bloggers jump onto it so quickly? Rule Out Virtually Everything R O V E and it all falls into place. Posted by: jerry dice at October 22, 2005 04:27 PM 7 Why do we sell them our souls? By Charles Sullivan 10/22/05 "ICH" -- -- It is painfully obvious that America is a land that worships the market economy. Big money is God here. Big money is all powerful, omnipotent. All solutions, as perceived by the captains of business, therefore, must be market based. Moreover, in the moribund perceptions of the ruling elite, the market must be totally unfettered. It must exist beyond the pale of conscience, bearing no responsibility to the people, or to the earth that sustains it. It must answer only to the bottom line and reject all other input—° function that it has executed only too well. Any economic system that is based upon market values, not ecological science, is an exercise in self delusion; and it is doomed to catastrophic failure. On a broader temporal scale, that system can be nothing more than a brief flash in the pan. It will be very short lived and will precipitate widespread destruction and ecological calamity. Likewise, any culture that is based upon economic fable is doomed to suffocate in its own waste and excrement. The impact of this endless stream of waste is already being felt on a global scale. Its ramifications are beginning to intrude upon the public conscience. Some of its symptoms are global warming, irrevocably altering the atmospheric chemistry, melting glaciers and rising oceans, more intense, longer and more frequent hurricane and typhoon seasons; unprecedented loss of habitat and associated species; widespread deforestation; depleted fisheries and viral pandemics on a global scale. As a nation, we have faith in a system of economics that is neither just nor justified. It is based upon a faith that is blind—° faith that is deaf and dumb and numb to the suffering it causes. In order to continue on its self destructive path, it necessarily ignores the reality that is evolving all around it. It feeds upon the lies of capitalism and the unequal distribution of wealth and power. In the process, it fosters the class system, the military industrial complex; planetary resource depletion; and the specter of endless war and all of its attendant costs, both human and ecological. Like a marauding cancer, Capitalism is destroying its own ecological underpinnings. It is devouring the host organism—¥he earth—°nd a vast array of species and ecological processes upon which it too depends. And, as with terminal caner, it is self arresting. Like imprudent adolescents flush with the belief in our own immortality, we are foolishly denying the existence of the laws of gravity; while we are subject to their influence every moment of our existence. Like every other species on earth, we are in perfect conformity to natural law, regardless how vehemently we seek to deny that truth. Cause and effect is always in play. Every tree bears the fruit of its own kind and no other. Like the cancer cell, capitalism requires endless growth; an ecological concept that is not possible in a closed system of finite dimensions. The only possible outcome of unrestrained growth is certain death. Is this the path that we really want to pursue? If so, the question must be asked: Why? ***end of clip*** This is a real problem that exists without regard to party or the person in power. capt Posted by: capt at October 22, 2005 04:33 PM 8 #7 Wow, Capt, that was a good one. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 04:52 PM 9 The World Can't Wait! Drive Out the Bush Regime! Mobilize for November 2, 2005! Your government, on the basis of outrageous lies, is waging a murderous and utterly illegitimate war in Iraq, with other countries in their sights. Your government is openly torturing people, and justifying it. Your government puts people in jail on the merest suspicion, refusing them lawyers, and either holding them indefinitely or deporting them in the dead of night. Your government is moving each day closer to a theocracy, where a narrow and hateful brand of Christian fundamentalism will rule. Your government suppresses the science that doesnÕt fit its religious, political and economic agenda, forcing present and future generations to pay a terrible price. Your government is moving to deny women here, and all over the world, the right to birth control and abortion. Your government enforces a culture of greed, bigotry, intolerance and ignorance. People look at all this and think of Hitler — and they are right to do so. The Bush regime is setting out to radically remake society very quickly, in a fascist way, and for generations to come. We must act now; the future is in the balance. Millions and millions are deeply disturbed and outraged by this. They recognize the need for a vehicle to express this outrage, yet they cannot find it; politics as usual cannot meet the enormity of the challenge, and people sense this. There is not going to be some magical "pendulum swing." People who steal elections and believe they're on a "mission from God" will not go without a fight. There is not going to be some savior from the Democratic Party. This whole idea of putting our hopes and energies into "leaders" who tell us to seek common ground with fascists and religious fanatics is proving every day to be a disaster, and actually serves to demobilize people. But silence and paralysis are NOT acceptable. That which you will not resist and mobilize to stop, you will learn — or be forced — to accept. There is no escaping it: the whole disastrous course of this Bush regime must be STOPPED. And we must take the responsibility to do it. And there is a way. We are talking about something on a scale that can really make a huge change in this country and in the world. We need more than fighting Bush's outrages one at a time, constantly losing ground to the whole onslaught. We must, and can, aim to create a political situation where the Bush regime's program is repudiated, where Bush himself is driven from office, and where the whole direction he has been taking society is reversed. We, in our millions, must and can take responsibility to change the course of history. To that end, on November 2, the first anniversary of Bush's "re-election", we will take the first major step in this by organizing a truly massive day of resistance all over this country. People everywhere will walk out of school, they will take off work, they will come to the downtowns and town squares and set out from there, going through the streets and calling on many more to JOIN US. They will repudiate this criminal regime, making a powerful statement: "NO! THIS REGIME DOES NOT REPRESENT US! AND WE WILL DRIVE IT OUT!" November 2 must be a massive and public proclamation that WE REFUSE TO BE RULED IN THIS WAY. November 2 must call out to the tens of millions more who are now agonizing and disgusted. November 2 will be the beginning — a giant first step in forcing Bush to step down, and a powerful announcement that we will not stop until he does soÑand it will join with and give support and heart to people all over the globe who so urgently need and want this regime to be stopped. This will not be easy. If we speak the truth, they will try to silence us. If we act, they will to try to stop us. But we speak for the majority, here and around the world, and as we get this going we are going to reach out to the people who have been so badly fooled by Bush and we are NOT going to stop. The point is this: history is full of examples where people who had right on their side fought against tremendous odds and were victorious. And it is also full of examples of people passively hoping to wait it out, only to get swallowed up by a horror beyond what they ever imagined. The future is unwritten. WHICH ONE WE GET IS UP TO US. These next days are crucial. The call you are reading has to get out to millions right away — on the internet, passed out as flyers in communities, published as ads in newspapers. DO NOT WAIT!! GET ORGANIZED!! If you agree with this statement, add your name to it!!! And do more than that: send it to friends, get them to sign it, organize a meeting, take it to your church, your school, your union, your health club, your barber shop, to concerts and libraries and family gatherings, everywhere you go. Raise money, lots of money. Get people together, make plans to be there on November 2, and to build for it. The world can't wait! Drive out the Bush Regime! Mobilize for November 2! Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 04:59 PM 10 Maureen Dowd's Piece from behind the firewall Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 05:06 PM 11 Tired of the drum beat of bad news surrounding TreasonGate and the outing of CIA officer Valerie Wilson. How about some good news from Iraq? Sorry, nothing to report. Before you remind me about the apparent success of the recent election, keep reading. Larry Johnson Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 05:24 PM 12 Robert Schwartz, I can say, without any reservation, that I have enjoyed nearly every word you have posted. Before your return a few spoke very highly of you and your contribution, you have not disappointed. tips hat capt Posted by: capt at October 22, 2005 05:39 PM 13 I do not believe for a minute that miller was "misled." And I want to know who gave her the info regarding the alledged conversation between 2 so-called Al Quaida members in July, 2001. That sounds very suspicious to me. Posted by: Saladin at October 22, 2005 05:42 PM 14 blushes And some days I just think I'm talkin' to myself. To think I was mentioned in my absence. turns a deeper shade of red Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 05:53 PM 15 David, here is a different take from yours, and one I find a lot more plausible. This is from the International Labor Communications Association. The whole article is very good. Judy Miller, the Armstrong Williams of WMD By Dave Lindorff ...Miller did so many things a real journalist should not do that it's incredible, which raises questions about the role of the paper's senior management, some of whom must have known how compromised she was as a reporter. She had a security clearance from the Pentagon, which barred her from discussing her sources with her main editors, and gave the government control over what she published. Senior management at the Times knew about this and accepted the idea of government control over their reporter. She reportedly was known as a charter member of the White House Iraq Group, a disinformation unit established in 2002 by White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card to "market" an invasion of Iraq to the American public. She even falsely identified a source, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby. Posted by: Saladin at October 22, 2005 05:58 PM 16 This Can't Be Happening! By David Lindorff Recommended reading. Mr. Lindorff's writing is smart and rational. His article "Oiling Up the Draft Machine" was a Most Censored 2003 story, and a very good one. Posted by: Saladin at October 22, 2005 06:06 PM 17 This clip made me laugh out loud. What a bunch of LOSERS!! Web snooping vital, spy agency boss says MICHELLE SHEPHARD STAFF REPORTER OTTAWA The head of Canada's eavesdropping agency says it needs to own the Internet to combat terrorism. Posted by: Saladin at October 22, 2005 06:12 PM 18 An anti-police brutality march just passed by my office window. Followed by an almost as large police presence. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 06:13 PM 19 TBR News SEC SECRET PROBE OF STOCK DEALINGS BEFORE 9/11 Between August 26 and September 11, 2001, a group of speculators, identified by the American Securities and Exchange Commission as Israeli citizens, sold short a list of 38 stocks that could reasonably be expected to fall in value as a result of the pending attacks. These speculators operated out of the Toronto, Canada and Frankfurt, Germany, stock exchanges and their profits were specifically stated to be in the millions of dollars. Given all of this, at a minimum the CBOE and government regulators who are conducting the secret investigations have known for some time who made the options puts on a total of 38 stocks that might reasonably be anticipated to have a sharp drop in value because of an attack similar to the 9/11 episode. The silence from the investigating camps could mean several things: Either terrorists are responsible for the puts on the listed stocks or others besides terrorists had foreknowledge of the attack and used this knowledge to reap a nice financial harvest from the tragedy. -------------- I have always wondered about this. If the terrorists or their colleagues did this, why didn't the SEC and Govt. put it out there for all to see? Why all the secrecy? And, who were those Israeli's busted dancing and cheering while the towers collapsed? Why is it that no one in the MSM ever said anything about it after the initial arrest? Why were they sent back to Israel where they said on TV that they were there to film the collapse? WTF is going on anyway?? Posted by: Saladin at October 22, 2005 06:22 PM 20 Robert, the pictures I saw of Military tanks rolling down the streets in N.O. really gave me the creeps. Did you read the story I posted on the last thread about the people who spent a day in the FEMA camp? Maybe Martial Law has begun, we just haven't noticed it yet. Posted by: Saladin at October 22, 2005 06:24 PM 21 Poll Shows Iraqis Back Attacks on UK, US Forces By REUTERS Published: October 22, 2005 Filed at 5:45 p.m. ET LONDON (Reuters) - Forty-five percent of Iraqis believe attacks on U.S. and British troops are justified, according to a secret poll said to have been commissioned by British defense leaders and cited by The Sunday Telegraph. Less than 1 percent of those polled believed that the forces were responsible for any improvement in security, according to poll figures. Eighty-two percent of those polled said they were ``strongly opposed'' to the presence of the troops. [...] ******************* Out Now! Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 06:25 PM 22 That is true democracy, American style, completely ignore the will of the people. Posted by: Saladin at October 22, 2005 06:31 PM 23 Maybe Martial Law has begun, we just haven't noticed it yet. - Saladin Yeah, I saw the post about the FEMA camps, maybe that's where we are all headed. But, in a large sense, the criminalization of peaceful activities such as cannabis consumption, has been a bludgeon which the powers that be have used to keep large segments of the population out of the mainstream. And in places like Florida, out of the voting booth. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 06:44 PM 24 I just keep paying attention to the regulars here. Seem like a good bunch. "Does the song of the river end at her banks or in the hearts of those who have known her". I appreciate the thoughts that go into many of these opines. joe Posted by: buffalojoe at October 22, 2005 06:44 PM 25 Robert S., I had the same idea as you... looking up the word "estimable". haha For me, that other definition you didn't list is the one that applies here. That would be #2--- VALUABLE Main Entry: es·ti·ma·ble Pronunciation: 'es-t&-m&-b&lFunction: adjective 1 : capable of being estimated 2 archaic : VALUABLE 3 : worthy of esteem Another "attaboy" and pat on the back to you David Corn. and some props all around to the "People of the Corn" great articles lately, no? Posted by: Alan at October 22, 2005 06:58 PM 26 Ok, Robert S., I DO agree with you. I didn't see your next post. "worth of esteem" indeed describes our benefactor here. Go DAVID CORN !! Posted by: Alan at October 22, 2005 07:00 PM 27 Joe, I hope you will contribute as often as possible. Every two cents against the psychos that be helps! Welcome. Posted by: Saladin at October 22, 2005 07:01 PM 28 October 22, 2005 -- Late in the day on Friday, October 21, President Bush nominated the US Attorney for Eastern Virginia, Paul McNulty, to replace departed James Comey as Deputy Attorney General. Bush's first pick, Timothy Flanigan, withdrew over his past ties to indicted GOP lobbyist Jack Abramoff. McNulty has been the chief prosecutor in the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) espionage case involving ex-Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and Pentagon analyst Larry Franklin, two former AIPAC officials, and Israeli spies. McNulty's case continues to look at other principal players in the espionage ring, including officials close to Karl Rove and John Bolton. Dutiful as always to his paper's masters, The Washington Post's Dan Eggen, in reporting on McNulty's nomination as Deputy AG, forgot to mention that McNulty has been the chief prosecutor in AIPACgate* As reported previously by WMR, McNulty has shared evidence with CIA Leakgate Special Prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald. The evidence primarily concerns forged Niger government documents that were laundered by Pentagon neocons through Rome. Also of interest to both McNulty and Fitzgerald are a number of names common to both investigations, including former Deputy Defense Secretary for Policy and Plans Douglas Feith. Before he departed Justice, Comey appointed career Justice prosecutor David Margolis as Principal Associate Deputy Attorney General to serve as a firewall between recused Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and Fitzgerald. Comey's decision was based on the potential presence of Bush loyalist Flanigan as Deputy Attorney General. PREDICTIONS: With Fitzgerald, McNulty, and Margolis now all on the same Justice Department team, the appointment of McNulty and his assistants into the number two spot at Justice spells real trouble for people like Rove, Libby, Cheney, and others, including Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his closest advisers who remain under investigation for their possible roles in the forged Niger documents as well as falsifying other intelligence in the lead up to the war in Iraq.[...] - Wayne Madsen *************** Click on the link and scroll down to some juicy bits on Marvin Bush. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 07:01 PM 29 Robert, draconian drug laws, while producing panic in the targeted population, are also useful in creating a slave class. They are also a financial boon to the corrupt govt.'s of the world, in two ways, slave labor and illicit drug profits. I would be jealous if I were Big Pharma! Maybe they will change the patent laws. Or, maybe not. There is a "killing" to be made the way it is. Posted by: Saladin at October 22, 2005 07:05 PM 30 Alan, I didn't go with #2 because of its archaic status, but, I do recognize that words carry their histories with them, if people are willing to look. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 07:06 PM 31 WOW Robert! Could it be that the Israel firsters crazies might finally be run out on a rail? Might we actually get our country back? Do I dare hold my breath? Or will I turn blue first? I just don't trust any of this, but will hope for the best. Posted by: Saladin at October 22, 2005 07:09 PM 32 #29 - Too true, alas, too true. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 07:10 PM 33 I read somewhere that Blackwater personell meployed at great cost in in New Orleans included some ex-IDF people. Anyone know more? Posted by: skip at October 22, 2005 07:10 PM 34 If Bill Keller had problems with Miller then why didn't he fire her. I'm sure even you, Korn, have been fired before. Next he will be saying that Miller extorted him. Keller gets the northend of a southbound donkey award this week. Hee Haw! Hee Haw! Posted by: Prof. B G D'Gre at October 22, 2005 07:11 PM 35 Federal Government Debt breaks 8 TRILLION 8,005,312,038,001.74 as of 10-22-05 The estimated population of the United States is 297,503,618 so each citizen's share of this debt is $26,908.28. The National Debt has continued to increase an average of $1.62 billion per day since September 30, 2004! It's official: as of October 18th, the National Debt has risen to over eight trillion dollars. Incidentally, it was back in December 2003, less than two years ago, that the Debt surpassed a "mere" seven trillion dollars. -------------- The USA, going for broke. Posted by: Saladin at October 22, 2005 07:15 PM 36 #33 - Well, Skip, take a look here and tell us what you think. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 07:24 PM 37 The latest deaths reported by the military: -- A Marine was killed Friday in an explosion near Haqlaniyah. -- A soldier died Thursday of a non-hostile gunshot wound in Baghdad. -- Two Marines were killed Friday by a roadside bomb near Amiriyah, 25 miles west of Baghdad. ********** A non-hostile gunshot wound? A new euphonism for friendly fire? Or more likely, another suicide. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 07:40 PM 38 a Beirut television station reported that 4,000 Israeli employees of the WTC were absent the day of the attack. Posted by: James Ha at October 22, 2005 07:44 PM 39 Go 'Stros!! Game one of the W/S is 'bout to start. I'll catch up with the posts later. Keep 'em coming though! I've been reading my azz off lateley, cause you guys are the bestestttt. hey Posted by: Alan at October 22, 2005 07:49 PM 40 James, that was also in the the TBR piece that Sal posted at #19. If someone can provide real documentation for that, such as names, firms of employment, and where are they now, I'd be very interested. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 22, 2005 07:51 PM 41 Robert, how does a running auto slip into gear, roll up the driveway and pin the maid to the wall until dead and then end up down the driveway and across the road? Check out the address on google earth. It's a corner lot across the highway from a golf course. Very interesting. Especially since his last job was involved with security at the WTC on 911. The other part of your post is also intriguing. McNulty moved into the top justice spot in the same neighborhood. Shouldn't the FBI be investigating this death, after all it happened at the president's brother' home. And the connection of McNulty to the investigation of the AIPAC scandal, and the SEC investigation of Israelis operating a short sell scam with inside info on the WTC collapse. Interesting. McNulty and Fitzgerald should be as concerned about their security as Saddam's defense attorneys. Was McNulty moved because fo his work on another case or to replace another embarrasement. "We couldn't connect the dots" Well they seem to be connected now, and the connections go backward from the Plame leak, to the WMD allegations, to congress writing the president a balnk check on Iraq, to 911, to the White House planning in January 2001, to PNAC discussions in the early 90's, to the Cheney War machine, to our man in Baghdad shaking hands with Rumsfeld and denying him a controversial pipeline to Aqaba. (The fate of the middle east always has crossroads at Aqaba) I love my TIVO. Just play it backwards. Switch channels and play it forward. Cheney makes 7 million on Hallibuton stock. Paul Bremer brokers away the economic future of Iraq and then retires. The US writes a constitution for Iraq and missing Ohio voting machines probably counted the votes, after being flown around in US helicoptors for two days. And Saladin, it isn't martial law that we are seeing in N'Orleans, its just Kill, Burn and Loot on leave from Baghdad. And today NPR is comparing Saddam's trial with Nurenburg and Milosovic. Can't they see that unless the US joins the international community that this court is the farce that Saddam suggests? Bush won't acknowledge the International Criminal Court so he keeps his man away from it opting for a tribunal of irrelevance. Garrison Keillor is the only MSM venue that seems to understand. Bush will take another vacation, appoint a few more cronies and pardon his pals. Posted by: geof01 at October 22, 2005 07:57 PM 42 Robert and James #40. I'd read that several years back, that there was an e-mail campaign telling people to not go to work on 911. I save a great many links but that isn't as relevent as your suggestion - where are they now? Saladin. That doesn't matter. We'll get the illegals to pay it back. Bush is the 20 trillion dollar president. The money he is making for the oil companies dwarfs the debt. You will pay $26,000 in increased fuel costs over the next seven years. This is a much bigger scam than the debt. The debt is for our grand babies. The energy crisis is for us. Posted by: geof01 at October 22, 2005 08:11 PM 43 I farted. It smells. Anybody wanna sniff? Posted by: Harry Ass Truman at October 22, 2005 08:34 PM 44 It looks like to me now more and more that Bush is actually innocent of guile. Cheney's the evil bastard and the WHIG were moving policy/disinformation leading up to the grand neo-con design. God bless our legal system and hopefully Fitzgerald is going to nail this modern-day Machiavelli and aides. Bush is disconnected and disinterested and incompetent - and believes in his Christian God. A perfect foil for Cheney and co. But as chief executive, he is responsible. His hands-off management style and trust/loyalty in and towards his people have been part of the whole problem. We've got a Shakespearean tragedy playing out here. They are getting pressed into a corner. Even though Bush has pardon power, IMHO he dare not use it. If he did, the republicans would have to answer for it in the congressional elections of '06. And they won't stand for that which means that they would support impeachment. Something I read earlier either on this blog or linked noted that Fitzgerald is our last best hope. I think that's right and if he nails them, it will be up there with the Boston Tea Party in our nation's lore. If not, we might not have much of a future. Posted by: brent at October 22, 2005 08:50 PM 45 brent, I don't trust fitzy, he was a republican appointee, sorry, maybe I'm paranoid. And bush is FAR from innocent. He is a braindead patsy, and he knows it. Why else would there be all these reports of his despondency? He is going down way before he expected. geof01, I disagree, the deficit will be our demise, the energy costs are right now, but I always make fiscal plans far into the future, bushco has undermined that for a reason. I also think they are testing martial law, via FEMA, to see how it goes over. How many people are aware of what is happening in N.O. do you think? NPR is a useless entity, they lie by omission. I know some will bash me for saying that, but look at their record. Robert, what do you consider "real" documentation? I'm not sure who to trust anymore. Also, I liked your link at #36, more creepiness. Did you see the swat team insignia? Posted by: Saladin at October 22, 2005 09:09 PM 46 For me it is not so much about faith or confidence in Fitzgerald but my trepidation with reality in general. Not being coy or hyperbolic but there has been so much really crazy stuff happen so fast, nothing will floor me. I hope yo see something come from the Plame leak investigation but if they decided to give Libby and Rove medals and fire Fitzgerald I would not be blown away. It has finally gotten weird enough to say anything could happen. I will dance a jig if Fitzgerald indicts but will not be floored is the exact opposite slaps me in the face as this side of the looking glass is very weird, completely bass ackwards in too many ways. capt Posted by: capt at October 22, 2005 09:33 PM 47 Sal - I share your concern about Fitz - but everything I hear suggests he is all about doing his job and is apolitical. Also I read today that he went after and got the un-redacted conclusions of the Italian Government's investigation into the Niger documents. That is very exciting. And by the way, I don't not hate Bush because he is disengaged etc. He will and should go down with the ship. My point is that he is naive and being led by the Cheney cabal - he's not really sure what's going on. BUT HE IS ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS MESS BECAUSE HE'S THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE. Posted by: brent at October 22, 2005 09:34 PM 48 first time writer, long time reader (daily) corn- your book, your blog and writings in the nation are top rate you long ago became a must read for me ive wtote in my blog often, where is that one prosector willing to take on the top crime mob in the country (the Bushies) we will know soon if its fitzgerald Posted by: gary nater at October 22, 2005 09:41 PM 49 Robert Schwartz -- hmm, I delved a little deeper into the 4000 Israelis Absent @ WTC on 911, and I believe that it's probably nonsense made up by arabs... Posted by: James Ha at October 22, 2005 09:53 PM 50 I don't understand what the fuss is about. If anyone in my employ was an accessory to unjustified war they would get a pink slip in a NYT heartbeat. Has anyone here heard today's REAL news on this case? Fitzgerald has expanded his probe into the area of pre-war "intelligence" and found - omigod - that "Curveball" is the source of the phony balony yellowcake "documents". Bush's house of cards is teetering back and forth. His Lie Machine is suddenly going to be scrutinized from top to bottom. This is fun, eh? W.W.W. Posted by: William W. Wexler at October 22, 2005 10:41 PM 51 brent, as attractive as that thought is, I don't believe ANYONE is apolitical. How could it be? I also posted the article about his access to the unredacted papers, what's next? Everyone seems to have an agenda. And bush is a long time criminal, I could never believe he isn't fully aware of what is happening around him. The tales of him swilling the Jim Beam are telling. Capt, I tend to agree with you. This is such a twilight zone stage, what happens doesn't ever seem to gel with reality. I will believe nothing until I see it with "mine own eyes." James, is that a facetious note I detect? :-) Posted by: Saladin at October 22, 2005 11:09 PM 52 Saladin: Some people are apolitical. I hope and think Fitzgerald is one of them. And Bush doesn't matter. Whether he's drinking or not doesn't matter. It's becoming clearer and clearer to me that this administration is being run by the chickenhawks out of Cheney's office. They are using Bush as a puppet. Posted by: brent at October 23, 2005 12:16 AM 53 American Soldiers 2,238 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan for Bush’≥ evil lies. Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 12:27 AM 54 Brent, is anyone in charge apolitical? I do agree that bush doesn't matter, but neither is he innocent. Posted by: Saladin at October 23, 2005 12:31 AM 55 brent did not say bush was innocent. Posted by: just saying at October 23, 2005 12:36 AM 56 Not trying to say that Bush is innocent. Just realizing that he may be an idiot savant (minus the savant) and that Cheney (=evil) together with Rumsfeld is running our country. Posted by: brent at October 23, 2005 12:37 AM 57 Capt: Your post on the previous thread of the Hardball account of the Fitzgerald reaching out was dynamite. Considering the many relevant queries, may I suggest you post it again? Thanks. Don Smith Posted by: Don Smith at October 23, 2005 12:38 AM 58 Thanks, "just saying", nice to knoew someone is listening. Posted by: brent at October 23, 2005 12:40 AM 59 perhaps what brent is saying is that he hopes that fitzgerald will take an apolitical stand in a very political situation, with real political consequences. can't speak for brent, but it is possible that that could happen. not everyone is corrupt. not everyone is bought. O, ye of little faith. Posted by: just saying at October 23, 2005 12:45 AM 60 Will someone please tell me what's wrong with the Right? I just finished reading the editorial page of Saturday's Atlanta Journal Constitution, and some goober STILL believes it's all the fault of the "Liberal Media" why George Bush is having all this bullshit fall around him! Their obvious need to continue to delude themselves about this Administration is purposely sinister. They relentlessly avoid their responsibility for placing that moron in office. I'm new to this blog, so can anyone tell me if Colin Powell has ever been discussed as a potential target for indictment? His performance at the U.N. was as criminal as anything this gang of idiots have commited. Posted by: lefthookjab at October 23, 2005 12:48 AM 61 posssibly brent also believes that fitzgerald knows the difference between politics and civics. fitzgerald knows the rights and duties of citizens and their relationship with government -- that's civics. one of his sworn responsibilities as a federal prosecutor is a duty to ensure that those who are entrusted with positions of responsibility must be held accountable, no matter what their political party affiliation -- that's being apolitical. Posted by: just saying at October 23, 2005 01:05 AM 62 lefthookjab, colin powell has no moral compass. he is a total sell-out. you are right to think that his performance was criminal. but, we americans make heroes out of moral midgets. he made some noise that he would not read "this bullshit" at the UN, then read it. he should be indicted, too. will he be? probably not. Posted by: just saying at October 23, 2005 01:10 AM 63 Just Saying, I believe Powell was once again carrying the Bush family's water like he did when he was with the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He's like a lap dog for that creepy family! He shows them total loyalty, but it was Jimmy Carter that pushed through his first star when he languished at the Colonel rank. Anyway, it's amazing how the administration actually believed that outing Plame would somehow make her husband's (Ambassador Joe Wilson) Op/Ed piece about their false claims of Iraqi pursuit of yellowcake uranium in Niger less credible. Hell, I can only assume credibility dilution was their short-sighted goal. INDICTMENTS FOR ALL! Posted by: lefthookjab at October 23, 2005 01:56 AM 64 The man behind the mirror is............in the wind? Let's just see where this rudderless ship goes. Bush sans Brain................holy crap. We need to be really careful or Rice will be our next President. Anyone of ANY color wan't this brown noser at the helm? Didn't think so. Wouldn't be a bad time to revisit a General or three. They seem to be getting vocal. Hell, lets suggest Fitz for the supreme court. Personally, Id like to see some high ranking Dems raising hell. Not much so far. "Where have all the soldiers gone, long time passing, where have all the soldiers gone, long time ago, where have all the soldiers gone, gone for __________ everyone, When will they ever learn, when will they Ever learn?" Posted by: titchaba at October 23, 2005 03:07 AM 65 Billmon has a piece (Oct. 21st, so scroll a lil)on John Dean that basically says "don't get your hopes up" and that "Executive Priveledge" might be used successfully to derail Fitzgerald's case. He doensn't agree with Dean, but points out his uhm, experience in these things, so gave him a lil respect by posting his point of view. Billmon Posted by: Alan at October 23, 2005 03:08 AM 66 titchaba, where's Corky? He's ok, right? Posted by: Alan at October 23, 2005 03:10 AM 67 This one has a list of witnesses that Starr brought in trying to nail Clinton, that by comparison with Fitzgerald's going after real** crimes, points out how hypocritical the righties are by crying about the criminalization of politics An added bonus it has the Rove/frogmarched picture at the top. Posted by: Alan at October 23, 2005 03:46 AM 68 Don Smith, #57 You need never ask to repost, to me that is a compliment! Good or funny or snarky, good stuff can never be posted enough! capt Posted by: capt at October 23, 2005 05:47 AM 69 "Painting is poetry which is seen and not heard, and poetry is a painting which is heard but not seen." ~ Leonardo da Vinci I failed to mention how much I enjoyed the limericks and prose posted here recently. And a big shout out to all of the GREAT posts on the board, especially some of the new ones! None of us agree with each other 100% and that is the beauty of this board. We would all lose if this board became some kind of an echo chamber with all in lock-step. Thanks and welcome to all! capt Posted by: capt at October 23, 2005 06:19 AM 70 Hughes Misreports Iraqi History Envoy Vastly Overstates Fact in Justifying War to Indonesian Students By Alan Sipress Washington Post Foreign Service Saturday, October 22, 2005; Page A15 JAKARTA, Indonesia, Oct. 21 -- Bush administration envoy Karen Hughes visited Indonesia on Friday as part of her campaign to repair U.S. standing with the world's Muslims and defended the invasion of Iraq by telling skeptical students that deposed president Saddam Hussein had gassed hundreds of thousands of his own people. Her remark was an impassioned answer to familiar criticisms of U.S. policy raised by her audience at one of Indonesia's leading Islamic universities. But it was also wrong. State Department officials later acknowledged that Hughes, tapped by President Bush and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to set the record straight on U.S. policies in the Muslim world, had misreported history. ***end of clip* I thought Karen was suppose to be helping the image of failed policies not exposing the policy makers as just plain dumb. capt Posted by: capt at October 23, 2005 06:41 AM 71 Media at a Huge Crossroads, 25 Years After Reagan's Triumph October 22, 2005 by Norman Solomon By a twist of political fate, the Oct. 28 deadline for special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald to take action on the Plamegate matter is exactly 25 years after the only debate of the presidential race between Ronald Reagan and incumbent Jimmy Carter. How the major media outlets choose to handle the current explosive scandal in the months ahead will have enormous impacts on the trajectory of American politics. Today, words like "feckless" and "lawless" seem like understatements when applied to the current president. A pattern of mendacity, callousness and appalling priorities has brought deadly consequences from Baghdad to New Orleans. The administration appears to be nearly drowning in scandals. Yet the news media –†again with notable assists from Democratic leaders in Congress –†are doing much to keep the Bush regime afloat. Nothing is more dangerous than a cornered wild beast. And if the day comes that its political survival appears to be at stake, the Bush administration will counterattack with extreme ferocity. Judging from the past, there are solid reasons to doubt that the press corps –†and leaders of the overly loyal opposition –†are inclined to pursue key issues of White House deception to the point that the administration will be truly backed into a corner. As usual, the tasks of demanding truth and affecting the course of history for the better will fall to independent journalists and grassroots activists. *end of clip* The failure of the MSM to do their job is shameful. It is not a personal failure by the individual reporters but a systemic institutional problem born of the board room ruining the news-room for profit and political gain to make more profit. IMHO capt Posted by: capt at October 23, 2005 09:05 AM 72 Saladin,#51 - no, not facetious - look at the link @49, it's a google of the 4k Israelis - out of all the links at that link, I couldn't find any verification of the story - I think that if it was true, it would've been picked apart from top to bottom until at least the names of the companies were revealed - maybe even the names of the individual Israelis - it's probably just another urban myth Posted by: James Ha at October 23, 2005 09:50 AM 73 however, the weehawken 5 & the selling short of the stocks by israelis is another smoking gun IMO - Posted by: James Ha at October 23, 2005 09:54 AM 74 G'morning all! James, thank you for that. Sal, I'll admit it is extremely hard to say what is real documentation these days - I saw it in the NYTimes doesn't cut it these days, of course. The official WTC story seems to be so bogus, but that doesn't mean that every rumour that comes down the pike is accurate either. I will repeat what I've often said, what I don't know about 9/11 far eclipses what I do, and it is not for lack of trying. On 9/11, my sister was a high school teacher in Staten Island, her students were attending funerals and memorials for months, my nephew still has nightmares; my father has a good friend who speaks to friends in Israel several times a week who personally escaped from the lower floors of one of the towers. (I didn't ask which tower.) And then on a much smaller, personal level, the attack destroyed some of my handiwork - I used to work at a sign shop in NY at which I handmade "In Case of Emergency" elevator signs out of mirror finish stainless steel for the WTC. I'm not dispassionate about this subject. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 10:18 AM 75 Karl and Scooter's Excellent Adventure By Frank Rich Another opportunity defeat the TimesSelect firewall. After the war drum beat they hammered out, it is the least I can do. Funny they didn't try to collect internet fees for Miller's Bull. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 10:32 AM 76 #61 I agree with Justsaying and brent. Fitzgerald is a prosecutor first. And probably only. The good ones do the job. They studied the law to follow the law. Posted by: Jeanne at October 23, 2005 10:41 AM 77 George Bush knows what Miers has in her heart. Now we do. She's just like him. Report: Texas Overpaid Miers in Land Sale WASHINGTON (AP) - Texas officials paid Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers' family more than $100,000 for a small piece of land in 2000 - 10 times the land's worth - despite the state's objections to the way the price was determined, Knight Ridder Newspapers reported Saturday. Posted by: Jeanne at October 23, 2005 10:45 AM 78 Fitzgerald knew early on what he was up against. He asked for clarification on his ability to expand the case in 2004. This fact tells me he had no desire to protect anyone. He must have know it went to the top and he persued it anyway. Letter Shows Authority to Expand CIA Leak Probe Was Given in '04** "Weeks after he took over the investigation 22 months ago into the unauthorized disclosure of a CIA operative's identity, special counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald got authority from the Justice Department to expand his inquiry to include any criminal attempts to interfere with his probe, according to a letter posted Friday on Fitzgerald's new Web site. Fitzgerald is nearing a decision on whether he will prosecute anyone when the federal grand jury term ends Friday. The letter specified that he could investigate and prosecute "perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence and intimidation of witnesses."" Posted by: Jeanne at October 23, 2005 10:49 AM 79 "It looks like to me now more and more that Bush is actually innocent of guile." #44 Brent, I'm sorry if I misunderstood this statement. Since guile means deceitful I thought you were saying bush hasn't been deceiving us all this time. It may be true that he's been led along by the rest of his cabal, but his lifelong record shows just how evil and deceitful he is. I can't help but feel suspicious that Fitz was chosen by republicans, you know the saying, 100 times bitten... I do hope he turns out to be one of the few, like Ron Paul and John Conyers, along with a handful of others, that have real decency, honesty and integrity, those seems to be the most endangered traits among politicians and lawyers of all stripes these days. James, I did look at your link but couldn't figure out if you were joking or not. But I agree, all the secrecy surrounding the put options and those 5 Israelis that were deported means they have something to hide. Robert, I have come to the conclusion that roughly 1/2 of the 9/11 info. out there is probably bogus, and very possibly planted on purpose to make the whole truth movement suspect. I read a good article on David Griffin, that elderly gentleman has more courage in his little toe than all of congress put together. He has raised many important and relevant questions, especially regarding that joke of a kean report. But none of the powers that be will give answers. But how can they when the answers run opposite of the BS they've been shoveling out all this time? Even so, the people are waking up, and I hope when enough do, America will become that angry giant that used to be our reputation when it came to justice. Hoping, hoping, hoping! Posted by: Saladin at October 23, 2005 11:10 AM 80 he could investigate and prosecute "perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence and intimidation of witnesses."" every one of those and more could apply to 911 - it's too bad there's no prosecutor for that Posted by: James Ha at October 23, 2005 11:13 AM 81 I hate to put the blame for things on Israel, but it sure seems like every time something bad happens, there they are right in the middle of it. Posted by: James Ha at October 23, 2005 11:17 AM 82 From: oped news THE COMING HURRICANE FITZGERALD... There is a storm of historic proportions headed for the United States, one that will make Hurricane Wilma (also en route) look like a small splash in the pond by comparison. It's been building and gathering strength in the increasingly hot waters of the Special Counsel's office for almost two years, and in a matter of days it may lay waste to the entire political infrastructure of Washington, D.C., from one end to the other. We start with the understanding that the crime of the century (so far) has taken place in Iraq. Lies and forged evidence duped the American people into waging preemptive war against a country that posed no threat to us -- all for the cynical and greedy purpose of enriching a handful of the Bush administration's closest cronies. In the process, over 100,000 people have been senselessly murdered and maimed, including many thousands of our own service people. Hundreds of billions of dollars have been looted from the treasuries of two countries, mostly our own. Even worse, many believe that the attack of 9/11 was not only foreseen by the inner circle of our government, but that orders for a deliberate "stand-down" allowed it to occur. Why? So that the horrific resulting tragedy would justify all that followed. The magnitude of these crimes is so monumental that their perpetrators were obsessed with suppressing any evidence of it. They ruthlessly smeared all critics, purging and intimidating any dissenting voices. For them the treasonous acts of exposing (and thereby destroying) one of our most critical intelligence assets (a front company secretly working to prevent the spread of WMD), were just another day's collateral damage. Having lied successfully for so long, having corrupted their mainstream corporate media lap dogs, and having made eunuchs of many in the "opposition" party, they considered themselves unassailable. Such arrogance has seldom been equaled. What they did not count on was Patrick Fitzgerald. The letter which appointed him as Special Counsel granted to him the "authority of the Attorney General . . . independent of the supervision or control of any officer of the Department." ------------ Many people are confident that this will be the end of bushco. Posted by: Saladin at October 23, 2005 11:23 AM 83 James, putting blame on Israel is appropiate when they commit crimes, though the crimes are committed by those in charge, not the people in general, just like the blame for the Iraq disaster is on the US, because we started it, not the people in general, but the leaders that we trusted to do the right thing. I would like nothing better than to see bush, blair and sharon hauled before the world court in leg irons for a lengthy trial where all of their crimes can be made known, then sentenced to the gallows, death is what they deserve since that is what they have sentenced so many innocents to over the years. Posted by: Saladin at October 23, 2005 11:29 AM 84 [R]oughly 1/2 of the 9/11 info. out there is probably bogus, and very possibly planted on purpose to make the whole truth movement suspect. Saladin Sounds about right to me. Disinformation campaigns are a stock in trade of covert operations. The 4000 Israelis story makes it so much harder for me to even bring up the stories that appear to have a ring of truth about them to members of my family. And the lonely voice of 'youth' asks, "What is truth." - The Man in Black Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 11:32 AM 85 #82 Saladin thanks for the article. It's interesting to be sure, but the writer seems to believe that a sitting president can be indicted -- most Constitutional scholars would disagree with that. Aside from that, I think if there are indictments and bush decides to pull out his "presidential pardons" pen, he'd have to pardon everyone who was indicted. Otherwise, the non-pardoned would squeal like stuck pigs. Posted by: micki at October 23, 2005 11:42 AM 86 Robert, I have learned to talk only of what is known for sure, ie: the collapse of #7. Most of the people I've brought that up to didn't even know a third building was involved! I direct them to good websites with excellent video footage of that building going down for no apparent reason and they start looking into the whole 9/11 thing on their own. I don't talk about pods on the planes, but I do ask them if they ever actually saw any footage of a jumbo jet crashing into the pentagon or any pictures of wreckage that could be definitively described as the plane they claimed was involved. It's amazing to see the shock register when they realize, just like I did, that what they thought were facts are actually empty rhetoric perceived as truth simply because the TV kept saying it over and over again. I also try to get them to read Griffins book. Except for the totally closed minded people, I can usually get them to at least start asking questions. Posted by: Saladin at October 23, 2005 11:42 AM 87 micki, I've read both opinions. But it is likely that bush would have to be impeached before any indictment, and god knows he certainly qualifies for that! Posted by: Saladin at October 23, 2005 11:46 AM 88 Prelude to a Leak Gang fight: How Cheney and his tight-knit team launched the Iraq war, chased their critics—°nd set the stage for a special prosecutor's dramatic probe. By John Barry, Michael Isikoff and Mark Hosenball Newsweek [...]At the time of Wilson's debunking, the vice president was the Bush administration's leading advocate of war with Iraq. Cheney had long distrusted the apparatchiks who sat in offices at the CIA, FBI and Pentagon. He regarded them as dim, timid timeservers who would always choose inaction over action. Instead, the vice president relied on the counsel of a small number of advisers. The group included Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and two Wolfowitz proteges: I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, Cheney's chief of staff, and Douglas Feith, Rumsfeld's under secretary for policy. Together, the group largely despised the on-the-one-hand/on-the-other analyses handed up by the intelligence bureaucracy. Instead, they went in search of intel that helped to advance their case for war.[...] *************** Bold highlight mine. This is an indictment. To wit: WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, [..] We have signed this document. It is the law of the land. We cannot legally search for excuses for conflict, we must, by law, try to avoid conflict. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 11:48 AM 89 Every good man is free From the Nonviolent Jesus blog!!! Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 11:55 AM 90 For five thousand years people piled up trinkets against the coming night and finally, after years of searching for a safe pair of eyes, invented a friend who could not be defeated, someone who at sometime, in some place, is the one friend you can really count on, invention or not. Who could have predicted, through all those eons, that following this path of following the dictates of an all-powerful God would lead to a situation for a species that first conquered the wilderness but then became its own wilderness. Look at the planet. See where the wilderness really is. It is where humans have been. The rest of the planet thrives without us. John Kaminski ------------ Robert, I find your indictment incredibly familiar! Posted by: Saladin at October 23, 2005 11:57 AM 91 There once was a gang known as bushco Who authorized much torture at Gitmo. They plundered Iraq for its booty Aided and egged-on by Miss Judy. They're all rotten skunks from the git-go. Posted by: micki at October 23, 2005 12:05 PM 92 David: Exactly what the hell are you thinking by getting involved with Pajamas? Besides the fact that they are paying you, I mean really, what's it worth? Just to be the token "liberal"? It's Faux News all over again.... I'm severly disappointed. Posted by: TFD at October 23, 2005 12:07 PM 93 You may recall that on October 22 I went to a wedding wake. The wedding was a pleasant experience. I had an opporuntity to talk to a second cousin. She said to me that Desert Storm was a fathers' war. Men wanted to show their macho characters. The Iraq war is a mothers' war and mothers do not their son or daughter fighting in this war. Different times and different ideas!!! I have often said that women are the persons who need to step up and put an end to hatred and killing by voicing their objections to war. True women are special because they possess nurturing and sensitivity. True women care and love and they know that we cannot continue hate and be indiffernt to the needs of people.. Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 12:11 PM 94 There once was a lawyer named Patrick Who often got indictments that did stick. He queried the nefarious Miss Miller Thus turning the hunt into a thriller. And bloggers banged away as though psychic! Posted by: micki at October 23, 2005 12:15 PM 95 MOTHERS DO NOT WANT THEIR SON OR DAUGHTER FIGHTING IN THIS WAR. Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 12:18 PM 96 British military investigator found hung in Basra by Julie Hyland October 22, 2005 A senior British military police officer in Iraq, Captain Ken Masters, was found hung in his military accommodation in Basra on October 15. Masters was commander of the Royal Military Police Special Investigations Branch (SIB), charged with investigating allegations of mistreatment of Iraqi civilians by British soldiers. According to the Independent newspaper, in this capacity Masters had examined almost every single serious allegation of abuse of Iraqi civilians by British troops, including the cases of the fusiliers convicted of abusing prisoners at Camp Breadbasket near Basra and a paratrooper who has been charged in connection with the death of Baha Mousa, a hotel receptionist. In recent weeks, Masters was thought to have been involved in the investigation into the events of September 19, when Iraqi police arrested two British undercover Special Air Service (SAS) officers in Basra. According to the BBC, the SAS men were disguised as Arabs and were travelling in an unmarked car containing weapons, explosives and communications gear when they were challenged at an Iraqi security checkpoint. The two opened fire, reportedly killing one person and wounding several others, including police officers, before they were taken into Iraqi custody. In response, the British Army launched a military assault on the facility in which the SAS men were being held, demolishing parts of the building. Several Iraqis were killed and wounded during the attack. In a statement on Masters death, Britain's Ministry of Defence said the circumstances were not regarded as suspicious. The only explanation offered as a justification for suggesting that Masters took his own life is that he was suffering due to the stresses of his job. Such explanations are problematic in any circumstances, but more so given the politically sensitive nature of Masters work. Masters, aged 40, had 24 years experience in the British Army. Married with two children, he was due to return to Britain in just two weeks. Reports indicate that he had displayed no signs of stress or illness and that no suicide notes were found at the scene. The Mirror newspaper cited senior military sources and colleagues in Basra saying that his death had been a devastating surprise. Moreover, Masters death is only the latest in a series of suspicious incidents in Basra surrounding the September 19 conflict provoked by the arrest of the two SAS officers. Numerous sources have questioned whether the two men were acting as agents provocateurs. Writing for the Globalresearch web site, Michel Chossudovsky states, “ìeveral media reports and eyewitness accounts suggested that the SAS operatives were disguised as Al Qaeda terrorists and were planning to set off the bombs in Basra central square during a major religious event. [...],more **************** We have met the enemy and they is us - Pogo Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 12:18 PM 97 From: ABS CBN Interactive US state dept warns of bioterror attack All countries need to improve their defenses against terrorist attacks using biological and chemical weapons because terror groups have threatened to use them, a senior US counterterrorism official said Saturday. "I am concerned about potential terrorist efforts to use chemical, biological weapons," Henry Crumpton, the US State Department’≥ counterterrorism coordinator, told reporters in Manila on the last leg of a Southeast Asian tour to discuss regional efforts against terror. "I have concerns not only about the Philippines but about all countries’†preparations for chemical, biological attack," he said. "It’≥ extraordinarily difficult to detect in many respects, and our defenses need to be improved." He said al-Qaeda and its Southeast Asian affiliate, Jemaah Islamiah, have made their intentions to use biological and chemical weapons "abundantly clear" in their statements and training manuals. He cited the discovery of alleged anthrax laboratories in Afghanistan in 2001-02. ------------- And they oughta know. Just in time for indictments! Do they actually believe that people will keep falling for this Al CIAda bullshit? Posted by: Saladin at October 23, 2005 12:19 PM 98 from #82: Even worse, many believe that the attack of 9/11 was not only foreseen by the inner circle of our government, but that orders for a deliberate "stand-down" allowed it to occur. Why? So that the horrific resulting tragedy would justify all that followed. ^^^^^^^^^^6 see how careful they are not to even suggest that bushco might have been the actual perpetrators? - Posted by: James Ha at October 23, 2005 12:19 PM 99 Can Patrick Fitzgerald save Americans for themselves? We should know soon. I have to believe that he would need to extend the investigations for several more months in order to investigate the many leads that he has uncovered. Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 12:24 PM 100 James, I think that even suggesting that they allowed it is good enough. The truth can come out from there. Besides, letting it happen is just a baby step from causing it. Posted by: Saladin at October 23, 2005 12:27 PM 101 While Fitzgeral continues his queary We're becoming increasingly weary From invading Iraq To Afghani Smack Whatever his finds we'll be leery Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 12:27 PM 102 The scales of justice do not accept makeweight, Question remains: will there be a "Checkmate!" Fitzgerald's broad authority is plenary But the thugs will cry "national security!" PS Robert S -- great limerick! Weary, we are. Posted by: micki at October 23, 2005 12:32 PM 103 Next we will hear that we must nuke Iran and Syria to save the world!!! America is the LEADING TERRORIST NATION ON PLANET, EARTH!!! America is the mother of all the terrorists in our world. Terrorists have received their ideas from the School of the Americas in Fort Benning, Georgia. Fort Benning is the birthplace for American actions regarding hatred, killing, and torture. Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 12:33 PM 104 Next we will hear that we must nuke Iran and Syria to save the world!!! America is the LEADING TERRORIST NATION ON PLANET, EARTH!!! America is the mother of all the terrorists in our world. Terrorists have received their ideas from the School of the Americas in Fort Benning, Georgia. Fort Benning is the birthplace for American actions regarding hatred, killing, and torture. Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 12:34 PM 105 sal 100 - I agree... although I believe it was a bushco/PNAC op from top to bottom, I guess it's enough of a start for someone to admit that at the LEAST, it was allowed to happen... Posted by: James Ha at October 23, 2005 12:49 PM 106 Modo got Judas Miller's number, Playing us for fools, only dumber, With her lies and her cheats And her war drumbeats She turned the world much glummer. Posted by: micki at October 23, 2005 12:52 PM 107 No One No one is above the law. We heard this statement from the repugnants regarding Clinton and the historic blowjobs in the oval office. No one is above the law. Bush can be indicted. If Bush committed murder of let us say to his mistress if he had a mistress, he could be indicted and he must be indicted. No repugnant will ever impeach another repugnant for any reason. How do you remove a murdering president? Bush is not above the law. I am convinced that Bush and Cheney committed treason in the Plamegate case. We have traitors at the highest level in our federal government. These traitors must be removed from office. Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 01:05 PM 108 Torture in Iraq By Human Rights Watch The following article is an excerpt, in somewhat modified form, from "Leadership Failure: Firsthand Accounts of Torture of Iraqi Detainees by the US Army's 82nd Airborne Division," a report issued by Human Rights Watch on September 25, 2005. The full report is available at hrw.org /reports/2005/us0905. "On their day off people would show up all the time. Everyone in camp knew if you wanted to work out your frustration you show up at the PUC tent.[1] In a way it was sport. The cooks were all US soldiers. One day a sergeant shows up and tells a PUC to grab a pole. He told him to bend over and broke the guy's leg with a mini Louisville Slugger that was a metal bat. He was the fucking cook. He shouldn't be in with no PUCs." —∏2nd Airborne sergeant,describing events at FOB Mercury, Iraq "If I as an officer think we're not even following the Geneva Conventions, there's something wrong. If officers witness all these things happening, and don't take action, there's something wrong. If another West Pointer tells me he thinks, 'Well, hitting somebody might be okay,' there's something wrong." —∏2nd Airborne officer, describing confusion in Iraq concerning allowable interrogation techniques 1. Summary Residents of Fallujah called them "the Murderous Maniacs" because of how they treated Iraqis in detention. They were soldiers of the US Army's 82nd Airborne Division, 1st Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, stationed at Forward Operating Base Mercury (FOB Mercury) in Iraq. The soldiers considered this name a badge of honor.[2] One officer and two noncommissioned officers (NCOs) of the 82nd Airborne who witnessed abuse, speaking on condition of anonymity, described in multiple interviews with Human Rights Watch how their battalion in 2003–≤004 routinely used physical and mental torture as a means of intelligence gathering and for stress relief. One soldier raised his concerns within the Army chain of command for seventeen months before the Army agreed to undertake an investigation, but only after he had contacted members of Congress and considered going public with the story. According to their accounts, the torture and other mistreatment of Iraqis in detention was systematic and was known at varying levels of command. Military Intelligence personnel, they said, directed and encouraged Army personnel to subject prisoners to forced, repetitive exercise, sometimes to the point of unconsciousness, sleep deprivation for days on end, and exposure to extremes of heat and cold as part of the interrogation process. At least one interrogator beat detainees in front of other soldiers. Soldiers also incorporated daily beatings of detainees in preparation for interrogations. Civilians believed to be from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) conducted interrogations out of sight, but not earshot, of soldiers, who heard what they believed were abusive interrogations. [..] more Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 01:07 PM 109 Well, everyone else and their dog is weighing in with predictions, so here's mine FWIW: http://greyhairsblog.blogspot.com/2005/10/fitzmas-eve_23.html Posted by: Mike at October 23, 2005 01:08 PM 110 Leo Buscaglia Look around you! Leo Buscaglia, the late professor at USC, taught a Love class. He was called the Love Doctor. He was also a well known speaker and lecturer around the country. At one conference he gave a speech and it probably was on love and helping people. After his speech a woman came up to him and said that she would like to do more but she did not know what to do. Leo said to her, "Look around you." There are probably many people who say what they should do. All they have to do is to look around and see what they need to do. There really is a lot that we can do. Hurricane Katrina was an eye opener for Americans. There is so much pain and suffering in the world that there is never lack of any work for good to be completed by people. Look around you and you will know how much you will need to do to help your brothers and sisters. No Super Humans Leo Buscaglia gave a speech at a conference and someone asked him if he knew of any super human beings? Leo said that he did not know of any one whom he would consider a super human being. He went on to say that whenever someone tries to consider himself or herself a super human being, he should picture the person on a toilet and they become very human. Remember there are no super human beings. Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 01:13 PM 111 Gerald, that reminds me of the part in Finnegins Wake where the Russian General is taking a crap in the crosshairs, and is spared until he pulls up his pants. rejoyce Grace Slick (1967) Chemical Change Like A Laser Beam You've Shattered The Warning Amber Light Make Me Warm Let Me See You Moving Everything Over Smiling In My Room You Know You'll Be Inside Of My Mind Soon. There Are So Many Of You. White Shirt And Tie, White Shirt And Tie, White Shirt And Tie, Wedding Ring, Wedding Ring. Mulligan Stew For Bloom, The Only Jew In The Room Saxon's Sick On The Holy Dregs And Their Constant Getting Throw Up On His Leg. Molly's Gone To Blazes, Boylan's Crotch Amazes Any Woman Whose Husband Sleeps With His Head All Buried Down At The Foot Of His Bed. I've Got His Arm I've Got His Arm I've Had It For Weeks I've Got His Arm Steven Won't Give His Arm To No Gold Star Mother's Farm; War's Good Business So Give Your Son And I'd Rather Have My Country Die For Me. There Are So Many Of You. Sell Your Mother For A Hershey Bar Grow Up Looking Like A Car There Are; All You Want To Do Is Live, All You Want To Do Is Give But Some How It All Falls Apart! Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 01:26 PM 112 Neocon Ideology Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 01:36 PM 113 Leak Case Renews Questions Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 01:41 PM 114 OIL FOR FOOD SCANDAL ha ha - evil U.N. Posted by: James Ha at October 23, 2005 01:45 PM 115 Can Leak Case Be Expand? Give Fiztgerald authority to investigate every low life scum bag in Hitler Bush's regime!!!!! Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 01:47 PM 116 RS, Leo Buscaglia is an interesting person. I have maybe 2 of his tapes and maybe 3 or 4 of his books. Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 01:53 PM 117 I have a confession to make. If Fitzgerald indicts Bush, I will piss in my pants. Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 01:57 PM 118 Gerald, I'm familiar with him. What intrigued me here was the congruence of your comment with what I feel was one of Joyce's central themes; the common humanity of us all. While he was taking a crap he was just another person. It wasn't until the Russian General pulled up his pants that he become an enemy target. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 02:01 PM 119 WTC - 9/11 I (and many others) have a gut feeling that we have not been told the truth. Period. Now, as far as who stood to benefit? WAY TOO OBVIOUS it was not OBL or Al Qaeda any more than the SLA or boy scouts. I have heard over and over from Christian friends that the bible has vast validity because many of the predictions and prophesy have come to pass. That the ability to predict the future gives the books and passages from the bible unquestionable credibility. So, when I see a plan (Northwoods documents) and extremely specific blueprint(s) from a group of ideological nuts and chicken-hawks from PNAC who not only occupy our high offices but use the exact plan they have been promoting for over a decade and all their predictions come to pass in perfect succession AND they are really the ONLY group to truly benefit from 911, it all is very clear to me. I believe there is a prima facia case for the reason I do not feel I have been told the truth. It comes in the form of a mountain of circumstantial evidence some of which is just un-answered valid and substantial questions. There is no reason for the continued withholding of video and eyewitness testimony, there is no reason for the continued stone-walling and gag order on Sibel Edmunds and others, there is no reason for the obvious whitewashing by the omission commission, there is no reason the soft spoken David Griffin should have valid and sensible questions that continue to be just ignored. TWA flight 800 occupies a warehouse to this day, in pieces that were brought from the sea-floor, all laid out for the whole world to see but in the case of the worst failure of our air defenses and lack of intelligence in the history of our nation we hurriedly shipped the steel out of the country for scrap value? Sure I am suppose to believe that? I believe in my heart and soul that anybody that buys the official version might as well believe in the tooth fairy, I think the case for the tooth fairy is far more believable than the idea that a handful of terrorists owned the airspace and pulled off a "well planned" attack on our nations capital and New York. That’s my opinion and only the truth will ever change my opinion. A truth we all yearn to hear, whatever the truth is, it is not even close to the "official" tripe these political and MSM mouthpieces keep repeating. "Qui bono" who benefits? I have NEVER heard any benefit to anybody or any group except PNAC and some warmongering jerks drunk on the delusion of power. So drunk are they in the delusions that they believe they can get away with ANYTHING. That is where I see the Fitzgerald investigation serves to prove the 911 was PNAC and not OBL. That’s my point of view so if you believe the tripe these neochronic jerks have been peddling I ask: why you would ever think they lie about anything? It simply boils down to either supporting their point of view (all lies) or opening your critical mind enough to question the lies. Nobody has anything to answer for EXCEPT the government. So do not ask me to prove anything, ask the liars that have hijacked our country to prove even one of their obvious lies. You will not get any answers from the only people that know. Do not ask "where are the death bed confessions," there are people alive and well that have questions, that offer evidence and can tell what they saw and what they knew. If live people are not enough for you check the plan from PNAC. In his radio show in July of 2001 Alex Jones was RAILING about the government creating a fake terrorist attack on our soil to justify the elimination of those pesky civil rights that impede the actions of a totalitarianism driven corporate conversion of our government into a pure fascist state with one purpose PROFIT. The results speak far louder than any kind of plan or "happy coincidence" resulting from Al Qaeda or OBL. My conclusions are based on many small details and circumstance so please do not bother to try to convince me of the error of this or that fact or assumption. IMHO capt Posted by: capt at October 23, 2005 02:05 PM 120 GOP Senator Links Indictment, Resignation By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 02:08 PM 121 Leo Buscaglia was a great philosopher and offered much to the spiritual mind. Sadly, today, the Leo Buscaglia's of this world are silent. If ever there was a time it is now. Good work David. Something tells me Libby is surely in trouble, Rove and DeLay will squirm out of the messes they are in, however. I'm just a regular guy making a prediction. Posted by: Joe Tully at October 23, 2005 02:11 PM 122 WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Cindy Sheehan, the military mother who made her son's death in Iraq a rallying point for the anti-war movement, plans to tie herself to the White House fence to protest the milestone of 2,000 U.S. military deaths in Iraq. Skip to next paragraph ``I'm going to go to Washington, D.C. and I'm going to give a speech at the White House, and after I do, I'm going to tie myself to the fence and refuse to leave until they agree to bring our troops home,'' Sheehan said in a telephone interview last week as the milestone approached. ``And I'll probably get arrested, and when I get out, I'll go back and do the same thing,'' she said. [...] ********************** Jim Bouton (Ball Four others) is about to be on Air America Radio. Once upon a time, I was a marshall at peace march (April '73? NY Peace Action Coalition) and I was talking to Mr. Bouton near Bryant Park - when John Lennon & Yoko Ono came onto the stage w/Elephant's Memory. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 02:19 PM 123 Recorded "The Torture Question" (Frontline) and have watched most of it. I will have to see it a couple of times but . . . WOW~! I cannot remember who posted a recommendation to watch it, Alan, Robert, Yelnats? Whoever it was thank you, it is a very powerful piece. Thanks all! capt Posted by: capt at October 23, 2005 02:24 PM 124 Journalist Convicted of Blasphemy in Afghanistan By ABDUL WAHEED WAFA and CARLOTTA GALL KABUL, Afghanistan, Oct. 23 - For the first time since the fall of the Taliban's Islamic government four years ago, a journalist has been convicted by a Kabul court under the country's blasphemy laws. Ali Mohaqiq Nasab, the editor of "Women's Rights," a monthly magazine for women, was sentenced on Saturday to two years in prison by Kabul's primary court. The sentence will automatically be reviewed on appeal. [...] ******** We went to war for this? Certainly it wasn't to get Osama bin Forgotten. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 02:27 PM 125 Journalist Convicted of Blasphemy in Afghanistan By ABDUL WAHEED WAFA and CARLOTTA GALL Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 02:29 PM 126 Robert Schwartz and Joe Tully, There is a common humanity in all of us. Maybe if negotiations were carried on in a communal bathroom where everyone was taking a crap at the same time, more work for justice and peace would be accomplished. Forget the newspaper while we take a crap so we can talk to people. Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 02:30 PM 127 #93 Gerald, your comment about "true women" made me wonder. If "true women" are nurturing and caring, there must be innumerable "non-true/un-true women." Who raised all of these lying warmongers? Posted by: micki at October 23, 2005 02:35 PM 128 #126 Gerald, you may have hit on a great idea for, "Forget the newspaper while we take a crap so we can talk to people." To chat: "to shoot the st." Posted by: micki at October 23, 2005 02:40 PM 129 micki, I cannot say for certain who raised all the lying warmongers but we know who raised George W. and for all of us he has been a nightmare. Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 02:52 PM 130 David writes: That is, Miller colluded with a senior White House official--Dick Cheney's chief of staff--to camouflage a White House attack on Wilson, a critic of the administration. This violated the Times' rules for anonymous sourcing. (Reporters are supposed to identify an anonymous source with as much information as possible so readers can determine if the source is pushing an agenda.) David!!!!! This never made it into print. Miller herself said she was just leading Libby on. The editors at the Times would NOT - I hope - let this get through. I'm on the border of hating Miller at this point so I'm not one to defend her, but let this one go as other than revealing Miller's lack of ethics there is no harm done by the Times. Posted by: stephen mccamman at October 23, 2005 03:00 PM 131 No harm done?! What planet are you on? Posted by: anon at October 23, 2005 03:15 PM 132 ...one tear, I thought it would stop the war, but someone is killing me... Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 03:16 PM 133 There once was a journo named Corn, Who wrote all night through the 'morn, He knew his story was no game The one of the festering "flame." Will he end up this week all forlorn? Posted by: micki at October 23, 2005 03:49 PM 134 Calling all linkers! The Representative Jerrold Nadler website has the press release of the day. It is a letter to the AG asking that person to give authority to US AG Patrick Fitzgerald for continuing his probe into the Bush Admin's lies and deceits. The purpose is to determine if certain members of that admin are culpable of high crimes in lying to Congress and the American people for the purpose of going to war. I do not have linking capabilities. But that letter should be posted on this site. Capt? Posted by: Don Smith at October 23, 2005 04:13 PM 135 stephen, you might want to read the link at #15. there is no way on earth the Times didn't know what she was up to, and she knew too. They have done more harm than we may ever know. Posted by: Saladin at October 23, 2005 04:14 PM 136 http://www.house.gov/nadler/ http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ny08_nadler/ FitzgeraldwarMemo102005.html Posted by: anon at October 23, 2005 04:20 PM 137 Nadler: Fitzgerald Must Broaden Investigation Don, I couldn't find his website, but I did find this at After Downing Street, is this it? Posted by: Saladin at October 23, 2005 04:20 PM 138 Don, we all have link ability, click here for a quick html guide but just this once, Jerrold Nadler's letter. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 04:24 PM 139 Saladin #137: That'll work. This is an important development. I've sent e-mail to Senator Boxer and Rep. Mike Thompson, asking their support for Nadler. I believe I saw one of your way previous posts saying you were hoping, hoping, hoping. This is it, Sal. This one can break the bank. Thanks for your participation. Don Posted by: Don Smith at October 23, 2005 04:26 PM 140 Robert #138: Thanks much for the direct link to the website. I've Googled the html business, and I must admit to not being computer literate. I can type and I can think, but operating a computer is a serious difficulty. Don Posted by: Don Smith at October 23, 2005 04:33 PM 141 The War in Iraq has just reached a new dimension. What now? Colonel quits as fears grow for the safety of his men "A senior army officer serving in Iraq, who voiced concerns over a lack of armoured vehicles for his men, has resigned. Details of the resignation emerged just days after another of Lt Col Nick Henderson's soldiers was killed in a bomb attack in Basra." Posted by: Jeanne at October 23, 2005 05:36 PM 142 Oh, those ever-changing rules! Repugs now interpret perjury as a "technicality?" http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1242367 Lawyers see charges this week in CIA-leak case Reuters Oct 23, 2005 — By Adam Entous "...In a preview of how Republicans would counter charges against top administration officials by Fitzgerald, Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas brushed aside an indictment for perjury — rather than for the underlying crime of outing a covert operative — as a "technicality."... Posted by: micki at October 23, 2005 05:52 PM 143 I guess I have a faulty memory. Wasn't that why they wanted to impeach Clinton? Posted by: Jeanne at October 23, 2005 06:08 PM 144 Jeanne, Lying about sex ain't lyin' about war. You can show war movies on TV... Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 06:17 PM 145 Pentagon program costing taxpayers millions in inflated prices By LAUREN MARKOE and SETH BORENSTEIN Knight Ridder Newspapers WASHINGTON - The Pentagon paid $20 apiece for plastic ice cube trays that once cost it 85 cents. It paid a supplier more than $81 apiece for coffeemakers that it bought for years for just $29 from the manufacturer. That's because instead of getting competitive bids or buying directly from manufacturers like it used to, the Pentagon is using middlemen who set their own prices. It's the equivalent of shopping for weekly groceries at a convenience store. And it's costing taxpayers 20 percent more than the old system, a Knight Ridder investigation found. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 06:20 PM 146 Just saw the 10/19 discussion between Scott Ritter and Sy Hersh on C-SPAN. That was the most honest and insightful discussion of our defeat in Iraq that I've ever heard. Congratulations to the Nation for sponsoring it. I think I'll buy Ritter's new book. Sounds like he may have some interesting things to say about the campaign of intelligence deceit that led us down the road to this disastrous failure. Ritter urges us to vote out of office any politicians who voted for the war. Hillary Clinton was singled out (Sy Hersch added that it was "shameful" that her husband has been silent on Iraq). I agree. I know Maria Cantwell won't be getting my vote next time. I'll vote for ANY third-party candidate who runs. If none does, I'll vote for a write-in (may be each constituency should agree on a single write-in name to clearly indicate the size of the anti-war vote). During the discussion, an audience member implied, through their question, that some who voted for the war should be forgiven because they were misled. Ritter didn't address that specifically, but simply said uncategorically that ANYONE who voted for the war ought to be booted. He could have reminded the questioner that there were plenty of people -- credible people -- who said loudly and clearly before the war that Bush's claim that Iraq posed a threat was bullshit. Ritter himself was one of them. Ray McGovern was another. I heard them. Why didn't Maria Cantwell? Or Hillary Clinton? Or . . . ? If the pro-war politicians weren't paying attention to these voices, they deserve to be fired at the next elections. Ritter's right -- again. Posted by: Drewp at October 23, 2005 06:25 PM 147 #145 You know, this has been going on for years. I'm sick of this crap. If the "business" administration can't run a government with any freaking business sense then what can they do? We're going to clean up government. Ha Ha. Ha What a bunch of lying horse thieves. Posted by: Jeanne at October 23, 2005 06:28 PM 148 Scott Ridder and Sy Hersh were also on Democracy Now. Haven't seen it yet but I'm sure it's also good. www.Democracynow.org. They have transcripts too. Posted by: Jeanne at October 23, 2005 06:31 PM 149 Drewp, as a fellow Washingtonian, I wonder what you'd think about the idea of Jay Inslee challenging Senator Cantwell's? He is not my Congressman, but I am very familiar with his record and I'm hoping and wishing that he challenge her in a primary. I think he'd win in a heartbeat. Posted by: micki at October 23, 2005 06:36 PM 150 The only thing I want to know from Ritter is why he could never get a 3-way with Krissy and Janet. Everything else is irrelevant. Posted by: ripple at October 23, 2005 06:59 PM 151 Iraq Insurgency Shows No Signs of Abating By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published: October 23, 2005 Filed at 6:42 p.m. ET BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- With the grim milestone of the 2,000th U.S. military death looming in Iraq, many wonder about the direction of the insurgency that killed most of them. Experts think the country's increasingly regional-oriented politics will fuel the insurgency and even spread it further inside Iraq. Others put forward a simple, disquieting scenario: So long as U.S. and other foreign troops remain in Iraq, the insurgency will continue. [...] ************** Last throes my ass! Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 23, 2005 07:00 PM 152 drewP and micki, I saw Democracy Now today. Scott Ritter gave chilling details how Bolton has a speech typed and ready for the UN preparing for war with Iran. Even when our capabilities are stretched beyond our limits...a plan is under way by this adm to invade IRAN. Some months ago Saladin gave links to the UsS having preliminary maneuvers inot Iran....But I do not recall the links. Saladin?? * Insanity? Who could know the reasoning of this neo con bunch. Global domination?? Yes...but more likely.. sabbotage the milieu of this nation such that it blocks any party from effectivly regaining power in 2008. Who could fix the mess created by this bunch of fanged toothed devils. Now you all know why I HATE coming off the mountain and catching up on the news. But in order to preserve some small portion of what is truly magnificent, I must keep abreast in order to keep up the good fight. Blogs such as this help. Thanks for letting me blow steam.....again. I hope you all get to view this piece on Democracy Now. I am still quaking. My stomach is in knots. Later, th Posted by: th at October 23, 2005 08:19 PM 153 Robert, We are in a country that never asked us to help them and who does not want us there. And yet Bush believes we should be there and Condi Rice is talking about Syria. ------------------ Secret poll: Iraqis back attacks A "secret military poll commissioned by senior officers" from the Ministry of Defence reveals that the majority of Iraqis support the insurgent attacks against British and American troops, according to an exclusive story in The Sunday Telegraph. Among other findings, the poll also concludes that 82 percent are against the continued occupation and that millions of Iraqis believe that suicide attacks are justified. The survey's results are "markedly different" than a poll conducted in March of 2004 by the BBC which found that "whilst the overwhelming majority of respondents thought any violence was unacceptable, some 17% said attacks on coalition forces would be acceptable." The article notes that the poll "appears to contradict claims made by Gen Sir Mike Jackson, the Chief of the General Staff, who only days ago congratulated British soldiers for "supporting the Iraqi people in building a new and better Iraq." Earlier today, President Bush gave a short speech at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California during the opening ceremony of the Air Force One Pavillion, in which he claimed that "we're draining the militants of future recruits by replacing hatred and resentment with democracy and hope and freedom across the broader Middle East." These are the major findings from the secret MoD poll as published in The Daily Telegraph: # - Forty-five per cent of Iraqis believe attacks against British and American troops are justified - rising to 65 per cent in the British-controlled Maysan province; - 82 per cent are "strongly opposed" to the presence of coalition troops; - less than one per cent of the population believes coalition forces are responsible for any improvement in security; - 67 per cent of Iraqis feel less secure because of the occupation; - 43 per cent of Iraqis believe conditions for peace and stability have worsened; - 72 per cent do not have confidence in the multi-national forces. Posted by: Jeanne at October 23, 2005 08:23 PM 154 th, I'm about to start the program now. Thanks for the recommendation. Posted by: Jeanne at October 23, 2005 08:24 PM 155 Drewp and micki, I wathced Democracy Now this afternoon. The interview with Scott Ritter was excellent, but more importantly he discussed the chilling news that Bolton has a spech typed and ready to present to the UN for invasion of IRAN. Some months ago I believe Saladin provided links to the US maneuvers and mininukes saimed at IRAN. There are no one individuals that he could point ot but a broader "neo-con" scheme. Global domination? Yes, but here is what I believe. Is it possible that they have intended to sabbotage things shere and abroad so much that it becomes impossible for any party to gain effective control in 2008. By causing such a mess here at home no party could fix the mess...neocons stay in control. Now you now why I HATE coming off the mountain to catch up on the news. But blogs such as this help . Thanks for letting me vent. Posted by: th at October 23, 2005 08:30 PM 156 If Fitzgerald's investigation is not as complete as we all hope for. If he is unable to hold all of those accountable for the Plameleak and hopefully many of those who are responsible for faulty pre-war intelligence. It is critical that we demand that PHASE II OF THE SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE be implemented immediately. The OSP and the WHIG were "off limits" to all other pre-war investigations. I have been writing, calling Cspan, Diane Rehm, Talk of the Nation, Hardball and other media outlets requesting that they cover the "promised" Phase II. Rep. Senator Pat Roberts from Kansas said Phase II would be implemented after the election. All of those responsible for this illegal war and for feeding the american public the LIes....must be held accountable. Call, write, hammer your representatives and the media demanding that PHase II be implemented. Posted by: kathleen at October 23, 2005 08:35 PM 157 This is from the headlines from Democracy Now ------------------ U.S. Marshals Interrogate Reporters at Saddam Trial A Fox News reporter has revealed that US Marshals are overseeing security at Saddam's trial in Baghdad and have conducted interrogations of journalists, asking them a bizarre series of questions. Among the questions correspondent Dana Lewis says he was asked: "Am I friends with insurgents?" "Have I ever experimented with drugs?" "What is my religion?" "Are my teeth real?" At the end of the interview, Lewis says the Marshals asked him if he would be willing to take a polygraph. He was then led to a room for an iris scan and fingerprints, which will be used as a physical identity check entering the courtroom for the trial. Posted by: Jeanne at October 23, 2005 08:45 PM 158 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE OCTOBER 20, 2005 11:40 AM CONTACT: Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich Doug Gordon (202) 225-5871(o); (202) 494-5141(c) Email Your Congress Member. From: Samantha Spinney, Legislative Assistant, Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich Date: October 21, 2005 Re: H. Res. 505 On Thursday, October 20, Rep. Kucinich introduced H. Res. 505, a resolution of inquiry that would require the President and Secretary of State to transfer documents relating to the White House Iraq Group, or WHIG, to the House of Representatives. Andrew Card formed this taskforce in August 2002 - seven months before the invasion of Iraq - with the mission of marketing a war in Iraq. The group consisted of high-level Administration officials and strategists including: Karl Rove, I. Lewis Libby, Condoleezza Rice, Karen Hughes, Mary Matalin, Stephen Hadley, Nicholas E. Calio and James R. Wilkinson. The WHIG produced white papers detailing so-called intelligence of Iraq's nuclear threat that later proved to be false. This supposed intelligence included the claim that Iraq had sought uranium from Niger as well as the claim that the high strength aluminum tubes Iraq purchased from China were to be used for the sole purpose of building centrifuges to enrich uranium. Unlike the National Intelligence Estimate of 2002, the WHIG's white papers provided "gripping images and stories" and used "literary license" with intelligence. The WHIG's white papers were written at the same time and by the same people as speeches and talking points prepared for President Bush and some of his top officials. The WHIG also organized a media blitz in which, between September 7-8, 2002, Bush and his top advisers appeared on numerous interviews and all provided similarly gripping images about the possibility of nuclear attack by Iraq. The timing was no coincidence, as Andrew Card explained in an interview regarding waiting until after Labor Day to try to sell the American people on military action against Iraq, "From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August." September 7-8, 2002: · NBC's "Meet the Press: Vice President Cheney accused Saddam of moving aggressively to develop nuclear weapons over the past 14th months to add to his stockpile of chemical and biological arms. · CNN: Then-National Security Adviser Rice said, regarding the likelihood of Iraq obtaining a nuclear weapon, "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud." · CBS: President Bush declared that Saddam was "six months away from developing a weapon," and cited satellite photos of construction in Iraq where weapons inspectors once visited as evidence that Saddam was trying to develop nuclear arms. Congress and the American people deserve to know exactly how the WHIG marketed a war using fabricated intelligence. The white papers produced by this group cut right to the heart of the lies and deceptions spouted by Administration officials in the lead up to the invasion of Iraq. For more information or to cosponsor H. Res. 505, please contact me at 5-5871. Samantha Spinney Legislative Assistant Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich 202-225-5871 (p) 202-225-5745 (f) Posted by: proud@democrats.org at October 23, 2005 08:53 PM 159 I am painfully divided over this Fitzgerald/Plame business. On one hand I see it as a chance to make the administration have to face the consequences of its dirty tricks and even treasonous misrepresentation of the need to go to war. Three cheers for whomever can put limits on them (as many of them as possible)! But, I do not like the circumstances of this investigation. I can not sympathize with need of a CIA agent to work behind a para-legal secret screen. Too many of them are engaged in abhorrent activities behind similar screens such as disappearances, extraordinary rendition, and a wide variety of torture and abuse practices. I believe all of them should be outed. There should be no secrecy in the government. No license to kill a la James Bond. Finally I have found an article that expresses similar doubts: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1023-26.htm. Posted by: Karen at October 23, 2005 09:33 PM 160 Karen, I see your point and understand your point. I agree that the office of CIA has done illegal and immoral things. The problem I have however is that it looks like Rove and Libby and probably Cheney were willing to break the law to find a satisfactory solution. If we were to be honest about this at the administrative level we would change the policies. But this administration was in the thick of things in the Iran Contra dealings. They are part of the problem. This group thinks they are above the law. We can never have anyone in power who thinks they are above the law. We can't tolarate a group who eliminates those they see as the enemy. We can't have an agency or group squash a person or family simple to stop them from undermining the agenda. Posted by: Jeanne at October 23, 2005 09:51 PM 161 Agreed, Jeanne. They broke the law and did so for despicable reasons. As you say, they have to face the consequence of their acts. But, and still, I cannot drum up any moral outrage for having outed a CIA agent. My outrage comes from their arrogance, their disregard for the life of their own soldiers and that of the Iraqis, and their disrespect for all democratic practice. It is a pity that they cannot be indicted for their more important crimes. Posted by: Karen at October 23, 2005 10:06 PM 162 Don't I wish. Last week I heard about lawyers in Canada wanting to go after Bush for war crimes. Now Scotland is getting into the act. The walls of the mighty neocon castle are crumbling. I hope. -------- Police to probe US 'torture flights' landing in Scotland By Neil Mackay, Investigations Editor SCOTTISH police are to launch an investigation into CIA 'torture flights'which fly in and out of Glasgow and Prestwick airports, ferrying kidnapped war on terror suspects around the world. The police action is a result of last week’≥ disturbing investigation by the Sunday Herald into the so-called 'extraordinary rendition flights' which see suspects kidnapped overseas by the CIA, drugged and then flown to 'friendly' states, such as Egypt, Uzbekistan and Morocco, where they are tortured on behalf of British and American intelligence. Following our reports , the Green Party wrote to the chief constable of Strathclyde Police, Sir William Rae, asking for a full inquiry into the torture flights. A police spokesperson confirmed that the force would now launch an investigation. Last week, we revealed that the British government was to be sued by human rights lawyer Clive Stafford Smith for complicity in the torture of his client Benyam Mohammed al-Habashi. Also exposed was the fact that international human rights experts and lawyers believe the UK is breaking the Geneva Conventions by collaborating with the USA on the transit of the flights through Britain. Further, the UK allows British airports to be used for refuelling by the CIA's jets ferrying suspects around the world. Glasgow and Prestwick airports are the two most favoured CIA stop-overs. Chris Ballance, the Green Party MSP who represents the Prestwick area, said he lodged the complaint with Strathclyde Police after reading the Sunday Herald's investigation because it appeared that "Scotland is complicit in these gross acts of torture" Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, said : "Once these planes land on British soil, they have no immunity. If they touch down at a civilian airport they are under civilian jurisdiction. This would allow the police to do their job fully and to board the plane and question those on board." Beyond saying that an investigation would take place, Strathclyde Police said it could not comment on how the inquiry would proceed. The CIA refused categorically to comment. One CIA official merely laughed when told that Scottish police were to investigate. 23 October 2005 Posted by: Jeanne at October 23, 2005 10:28 PM 163 Interesting article, Jeanne. Maybe the Scottish will avenge Flodden Fields by standing up to their English masters. -Karen Posted by: Karen at October 23, 2005 10:48 PM 164 Attacking Iran would be insane but does anyone doubt that Bush is insane? If he is not insane, then he is the most evil creature on earth. Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 11:45 PM 165 Miki: Drewp, as a fellow Washingtonian, I wonder what you'd think about the idea of Jay Inslee challenging Senator Cantwell's? He is not my Congressman, but I am very familiar with his record and I'm hoping and wishing that he challenge her in a primary. I think he'd win in a heartbeat. He's got my vote if he wants to run. He's my congressman, and I've always been impressed with him. He's amazingly responsive to his constituents. My one beef with him is that he opposed a law that would require stock options to be reported as expenses on corporate earnings reports. In other words, he opposes honest accounting. I don't think it's any coincidence that his top financial supporters are in the high-tech industry, which strenuously opposes this type of honest reporting. I know that sounds like a minor flaw compared with the horrors perpetrated by the pro-warriors, but it does smack of support for corporate corruption, which just a few years ago ruined a lot of good, hardworking people and probably will again. Still, I‚Äôm proud to have Jay and Jim McDermott representing us. Posted by: Drewp at October 23, 2005 11:48 PM 166 We must have the courage and the power to say no to more wars. Bush wants to divert our attention from his treasonous behavior. Every Good Man Is Free Posted by: Gerald at October 23, 2005 11:57 PM 167 During his discussion with Scott Ritter, Sy Hersh mentioned that the neocons seem perfectly satisfied with chaos in the Middle East. He may be onto something. Continued chaos justifies a continued U.S. military presence there, which ensures continued access to Middle East oil, which is, after all, what this is all about. A land invasion of Iran, or anywhere else, is impossible, given the stress the U.S. military is already under. But a continued policy of belligerence toward Iraq or Syria would further justify maintaining bases in Iraq, even if things in Iraq stabilize (which I think is highly unlikely to happen soon). Surely, though, even these morons know that the U.S. is running awfully low on meat for the military meatgrinder and that a full-blown war with Iran would cause the supply of warm bodies to dry up completely. So air strikes may be in the offing, as many have speculated, and the bases in Iraq would no doubt provide a convenient launching pad for those. But a land invasion would break the whole machine. Hersh also said that 3 million Iranians live in the U.S., so a war against Iran would result in terrorist attacks here that would make 9/11 look cute (I'm paraphrasing). Talk about deterrence. Posted by: Drewp at October 24, 2005 12:12 AM 168 There once was a guy known as Karl Who was never reluctant to snarl, Watch for him to blame Scooter Who he hopes to effectively neuter, But "Irv" might strike back with a gnarl! Posted by: micki at October 24, 2005 12:36 AM 169 #165 Hey, Drew -- Jay Inslee is incredibly responsive, not only to HIS constituents but to Washingtonians in other districts -- he really impresses me with his broader perspective. I think he's a very honest citizen. I'd have to look into the stock options question to be able to comment on it. Posted by: micki at October 24, 2005 12:45 AM 170 Drewp, Admittedly, I am not an expert in things financial, but the proposal you mentioned for which Inslee voted YES, has one redeeming factor: It does require that the options held by a company's five highest-paid executives be counted as an expense -- so that is not being hidden. I know it's not perfect, but it's not as though the fattest cats aren't under some scrutiny. (HR 3574) I looked up the vote on this -- every rep in Washington, except McDermott voted YES. Good old reliable Jim! Posted by: micki at October 24, 2005 12:59 AM 171 Micki, I'm sure no financial expert either, but the people who are, the U.S. and international accounting standards boards (FASB and IASB), said that all stock options could and should be reported. In a letter he sent to me, Jay said the problem was that the value of options could not be accurately determined. But as I recall, some economist won a Nobel prize for devising a method of doing exactly that, and FASB also said it could be done. I was never able to get Jay to tell me why he thought it couldn't. But as I said, that all seems minor compared with the murder and mayhem wrought by the vicious freaks now in power, with Maria's help. Sen. Inslee would be a welcome change indeed. Posted by: Drewp at October 24, 2005 01:38 AM 172 Micki, And while it's true that the current law requires that the options of the top 5 execs be reported, that's actually a drop in the bucket at some of these tech companies. It's been estimated (I forget where) that high-tech corporate earnings would drop by 30% if options were included in the bottom line. Seems to me that's the kind of thing small investors should know about if they're to make informed investment decisions. That's why I harp on this. Posted by: Drewp at October 24, 2005 01:48 AM 173 I can't wait till CSPAN comes out with video and transcripts of the Ritter-Hersch talk that Drewp and others have mentioned. Ritter comes off as sincere, smart, and very passionate about his status as a military man (and a GOoPer) against the war in Iraq. Hersch still gives me the impression of a hyena. I don't know exactly why. I guess because he has soooo many secret un-named sources. He did tell a funny anecdote about what one of his sources said of Condi Rice (paraphrasing here till the official transcript is available): we all heard that when she became secretary of state she'd have the president's ear, we didn't realize all she'd do is lick it. I read on DKos that Novak has cooperated with Mr. Prosecutor. And I came across this funny map. Mr. Corn, Mort Kondracke is reporting that (according to retired Army Maj. Gen. Robert Scales) things are going so swimmingly in Iraq that the road to the BIAP is open and clogged with shiny happy cars. Is this true. Are we winning? Posted by: Pandemoniac at October 24, 2005 01:56 AM 174 I can't wait till CSPAN comes out with video and transcripts of the Ritter-Hersch talk that Drewp and others have mentioned. Ritter comes off as sincere, smart, and very passionate about his status as a military man (and a GOoPer) against the war in Iraq. Hersch still gives me the impression of a hyena. I don't know exactly why. I guess because he has soooo many secret un-named sources. He did tell a funny anecdote about what one of his sources said of Condi Rice (paraphrasing here till the official transcript is available): we all heard that when she became secretary of state she'd have the president's ear, we didn't realize all she'd do is lick it. I read on DKos that Novak has cooperated with Mr. Prosecutor. And I came across this funny map. Mr. Corn, Mort Kondracke is reporting** that (according to retired Army Maj. Gen. Robert Scales) things are going so swimmingly in Iraq that the road to the BIAP is open and clogged with shiny happy cars. Is this true. Are we winning? Posted by: Pandemoniac at October 24, 2005 01:56 AM 175 Ooops. I got so excited I ghost-posted. Posted by: Pandemoniac at October 24, 2005 02:00 AM 176 Hell yeah, that map was excellent! The 'Novak' article was a good one too. I keep hearing that Hannah (sp ck) might've helped alot too (flipped?). K, so I didn't like the last article so much, but then, who would? Ya still have to read 'em to keep up. It's like a scorecard of the next inning, of how they will play it. I'm glad you have the dispostition to sludge through the mud to keep up with the reacionaries like you do Pande. Thanks didya see that game? "sheeeesh!" Posted by: Alan at October 24, 2005 02:42 AM 177 Everyone should stop getting off on the idea that these douchebag republican corporate puppets are going to pay any price for their treasonous ways. Justice does not apply to them. You know even if they are found guilty of emailing Bin Laden to attack America so we can attack Iraq, not one of them will pay. Pardons across the board. It will come to that too. Just think for one minute, would our great and moral leader President Bush stoop so low as to circumvent the American way of life and its "rule of law". This is the same guy who trusts the machines to count the votes, not the people. This is the guy who prefers Chalibi intelligence and vague sports references like "it's a slam dunk" to weapons inspectors. This is the same guy who tells you he is a great steward of the environment. He is the same one who asserts Ann Richards is a lesbo, McCain is brainwashed by Charlie, and Kerry doesn't stand for anything. He is the same man who was AWOL during his generation's debacle of a war. He is a joke. You think an indictment or a guilty verdict of his buttbuddy Rove would for a moment give him pause to consider what would be the right course of action. If he has not yet proven to you how self-serving and pathetic and anti-American and anti-Christ he is, then maybe you'll be convinced by the blanket pardons he graces upon those colostomy bags that are in "serious legal jeopardy". I hate to point out the obvious, but short of revoultion, this is America. Corporate controlled, morally bankrupt, and paid for by the blood of innocents. Posted by: ripple at October 24, 2005 03:19 AM 178 Everyone should stop getting off on the idea that these douchebag republican corporate puppets are going to pay any price for their treasonous ways. Justice does not apply to them. You know even if they are found guilty of emailing Bin Laden to attack America so we can attack Iraq, not one of them will pay. Pardons across the board. It will come to that too. Just think for one minute, would our great and moral leader President Bush stoop so low as to circumvent the American way of life and its "rule of law". This is the same guy who trusts the machines to count the votes, not the people. This is the guy who prefers Chalibi intelligence and vague sports references like "it's a slam dunk" to weapons inspectors. This is the same guy who tells you he is a great steward of the environment. He is the same one who asserts Ann Richards is a lesbo, McCain is brainwashed by Charlie, and Kerry doesn't stand for anything. He is the same man who was AWOL during his generation's debacle of a war. He is a joke. You think an indictment or a guilty verdict of his buttbuddy Rove would for a moment give him pause to consider what would be the right course of action. If he has not yet proven to you how self-serving and pathetic and anti-American and anti-Christ he is, then maybe you'll be convinced by the blanket pardons he graces upon those colostomy bags that are in "serious legal jeopardy". I hate to point out the obvious, but short of revoultion, this is America. Corporate controlled, morally bankrupt, and paid for by the blood of innocents. Posted by: ripple at October 24, 2005 03:20 AM 179 that was weird, told me I couldn't post that because of abusive content, then I tried again and there it is twice. I know once is enough, but read it twice if reality has not yet sunk in. Posted by: ripple at October 24, 2005 03:22 AM 180 #159 We all got our dislikes about what our government does. But we came together to form a more perfect union... meaning we have to work together to continuily pursue a more perfect government. There are great debates in store on CIA reform for those who hold a commonwealth view, in other words when we are all looking out for our common good somewhat as equals. Maybe what might help is to realize that Plame was a nuke counter... her job was to keep reasonable estimates on the nuclear capability of other countries and order to help US policy including non-nuclear proflieration alliances (something we used to be about). If spying could be look at positively, her job was the time honored role of counting the strength of possible future enemies. What I think should ease your decision that the outing of a CIA agent was worse than the role of the CIA is the hypocrisy level including divisiness, double standards, "above the law" or "us vs them" language. Hypocrisy can indicate a dualistic situation and that there is no common good being agreed upon. If we have moved from asking whether we are being clumsy, stupid, or misguided toward questions about whether we are we being abused, oppressed, or betrayed by what seems like an uncontrollable outsider then that is a greater concern for it smacks of what one would fear from dictators, monarchs or other toltalitarian rulers. The CIA has many hypocritical historical moments (against our common good), but the institution itself and its purpose seems to have a place for the common good. Whereas political leaders using government institutions against the common good and even betraying them for political power and agenda is clearly in the hypocritical category. Two years ago when this story broke out... all I could think was that if this was the previsious administration all I would hear would be "treason", "treason" and "treason" from all the right wing nuts. But we can see how far the common good has eroded in the WH admin and much of the GOP when they want to take the hypocritical path and talk about technicalities of how somehow this different. It is the same logic by Delay in saying that his judge can't be democract in order to get a fair trial. Posted by: yelnats at October 24, 2005 03:32 AM 181 Corky is fine. He's thinking. He is keeping all those around him calm and focused. Bless his heart, he is the most centered person I know. Nothing can derail him. Corky is my rock. P.S. It amuses the hell out of me that the only interest in My posts is my connection to corky, lol. So glad others see his strength and integrity. Don't get me started. Im lucky, Im surrounded by strategic thinkers, survivor types. I love my husband deeply, but he knows that if the excrement hits the fan, Im following Corky. I know and respect his mind. When he was a baby, I knew he was ready to drink from a cup when he tore the nipple off a platex nurser and had himself a nice drink of milk. I watched, and laughed. Little did I know. He flatly refused to go to his elementary school graduation, nor did he attend his highschool graduation. Corky shows up when he feels he needs to. Thanks for asking. Posted by: titchaba at October 24, 2005 03:54 AM 182 An unspun Bush has little hope of garnering any support. He is a twit. Id be happy to debate him on any topic on any given day, but I didn't go to Yale. I learn what I wan't and need to learn. All Shrub boy ever learned was Nobles Obige Light. Laura did her let them eat cake speach. This Presidents dissconect with his constituancy is eppic. Who will pay for Katrina???????????..........The poor and the elderly. Where the hell is AARP, where the HELL for that matter is the freeking DEMOCRATIC PARTY????????????????? NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL GOOD MEN TO COME TO THE AID OF THEIR PARTY. He is on the ropes and (forgive my pun) bleeding Liberally, Where is the final blow? Got Rocks? THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS NO STONES. And the Emperor is without clothes. HOW DUMB IS THIS?? What it all comes down to... Posted by: titchaba at October 24, 2005 04:20 AM 183 Ill say it once more with feeling: WHERE THE HELL IS THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY???????????? Do we need to replace this party? Step up or kiss off. Now is the time. As much as I admire and appreciate the efforts of some Dems like Conyures, Boxer, Kennedy, et al..... Im profoundly dissapointed with the PARTY as a whole, this bothers me. Finally there is a lack of unity in that which we oppose.. If we can't get it together now when we have the advantage...........then I for one need a NEW party. For now ; Im calling it: FUW and our mascot is a...skink. We will be the color we need to be to serve the largest constituancy. We will be determined by need and by ideology. I sure hope Dems will step up, Im WAY to lazy to start a political party, I could Cater one though. Food for thought. Posted by: titchaba at October 24, 2005 04:35 AM 184 NO, sorry, this Nation HAD one of the best intellence sources in the world until Chaney took over the Pentigon. At the analyst level, all jobs were well done. Analysts can only put forth thier considered opinion. I worked with these dudes, they knew their stuff and none took the intel lightly. Chaney ran the prewar, and the War out of the Pent. And only credited data that supported the war. . This Administration has done disasterous damage to our intell capabilities. The Plame leak was merely an example. Look at attrition at CIA,DIA, NSA,FBI, ask why? These were/are really dedicated intel professionals who gave up. This Administration applied a filter that excluded anything that did NOT support the case for invading . Look at the traffic, look at the data, and if still unconvinced watch Bush reading My Pet Goat with the book upside down and the deer in headlights expression. Look at how fast the Bin Ladens got out during seriously restricted airspace time. All packed and ready to roll. Could the press PLEASE ASK THEM WHY? What the HELL has become of the Free Press? Not so free anymore...........is it? "Get up, stand up........stand up for your rights" B. Marley. Posted by: titchaba at October 24, 2005 04:51 AM 185 David Corn gets credit for the first to report on the significance of the Plame outing... How Did Peter Fitzgerald Become the U.S. Attorney in Charge of the TreasonGate Investigation? October 24, 2005 A BUZZFLASH NEWS ANALYSIS "How did Peter Fitzgerald become the U.S. Attorney in charge of prosecuting TreasonGate? It's perhaps a good time to ask that question, as we will learn this week if there will be indictments and, if so, how many of them there will be. How did an administration so good at establishing investigations and commissions that whitewashed its lies and incompetence end up with a prosecutor it doesn't seem able to squash like a bug? Heck, after turning FEMA over to hacks and acting dazed and confused as New Orleans citizens were literally dying for federal assistance, Bush appointed himself head of an investigation as to what went wrong! BuzzFlash is in a good position to evaluate how Peter Fitzgerald got to this point in perhaps holding the Busheviks accountable to the rule of law. Firstly, after David Corn of "The Nation" became the first columnist to write about the potential significance of the infamous Bob Novak outing of Valerie Plame, BuzzFlash became the first Internet website to start a drumbeat demanding accountability for endangering the national security of the United States. Secondly, BuzzFlash is located in Chicago, where Peter Fitzgerald is still the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois. (Yes, contrary to public perception, Fitzgerald is holding down two positions. He is still actively functioning as the U.S. Attorney in Chicago, in addition to his TreasonGate investigation.) "... Posted by: flan at October 24, 2005 08:33 AM 186 The Republican Rift* Issue of 2005-10-31 Posted 2005-10-24 This week in the magazine, Jeffrey Goldberg writes about Brent Scowcroft, the national-security adviser under President George H. W. Bush—and the former President’s best friend—who has been at odds with the current Administration. Here, with Amy Davidson, Goldberg discusses Scowcroft and the divide within the Republican party over Iraq ***end of clip* Seems the "real" conservatives know the difference between neocon and just plain con. capt Posted by: capt at October 24, 2005 09:08 AM 187 Vicesimus Knox: Minister of Peace by Laurence M. Vance Christian, is your preacher a minister of war or a minister of peace? It is a horrible blight on Christianity that many of the preachers in America today who claim to be conservative Christians waste their time defending the president and upholding the Republican Party instead of defending the Bible and upholding Christianity. Instead of indoctrinating their congregations in the Christian faith, they propagandize them in government falsehood. Instead of exalting the name of Jesus Christ, they exalt the name of George Bush. Instead of diligently studying and giving their church members the truth, they indolently watch Fox News and give their church members government lies. Instead of helping their parishioners grow in their Christian life, they help them grow in their admiration for the state. What an embarrassment that some preachers parrot Fox News instead of preach the gospel! What a shame to hear a sermon that glorifies the sacrifices of U.S. troops in Iraq instead of the sacrifice of Christ on Calvary! What a disgrace that some preachers are ministers of war instead of ministers of peace! *end of clip* I think that would replace the title "Man of God" with the more accurate title "Man of the state." WWJD? capt Posted by: capt at October 24, 2005 09:54 AM 188 Verbally Abusive Jesus Posted by: apustule at October 24, 2005 10:34 AM 189 UPDATED WH STRATEGY: Circle the wagons and shoot anything that moves! _____________________________________________ http://www.nydailynews.com W pals bushwhack CIA leak prosecutor BY THOMAS M. DeFRANK and MICHAEL McAULIFF DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU WASHINGTON - As the White House and Republicans brace for possible indictments in the CIA leak probe, defenders have launched a not-so-subtle campaign against the prosecutor handling the case. "He's a vile, detestable, moralistic person with no heart and no conscience who believes he's been tapped by God to do very important things," one White House ally said, referring to special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald. Posted by: micki at October 24, 2005 10:38 AM 190 titchaba, Isn't it funny how you become someone's mom when you have a child? Then when they get to school you REALLY become someone's mom. You don't even have a name anymore. I used to get called "Tommy's mom" "Meghan's mom" and "Rachel's mom". I even get called "John's wife". My mom once told people, when I was little, she was going to change her name to dad so she wouldn't have to do anything. Posted by: Jeanne at October 24, 2005 10:47 AM 191 th, I think this was one of the articles I posted. Since it was written by Scott Ritter I took it seriously. It is from June of this year. He shows very clearly the deception bushco uses and slams congress for giving him a blank check to fight this phony war on terror. US war with Iran has already begun By Scott Ritter ...Americans, and indeed much of the rest of the world, continue to be lulled into a false sense of complacency by the fact that overt conventional military operations have not yet commenced between the United States and Iran. As such, many hold out the false hope that an extension of the current insanity in Iraq can be postponed or prevented in the case of Iran. But this is a fool's dream. The violation of a sovereign nation's airspace is an act of war in and of itself. But the war with Iran has gone far beyond the intelligence gathering phase. The reality is that the US war with Iran has already begun. As we speak, American over flights of Iranian soil are taking place, using pilotless drones and other, more sophisticated, capabilities. The violation of a sovereign nation's airspace is an act of war in and of itself. But the war with Iran has gone far beyond the intelligence-gathering phase. Posted by: Saladin at October 24, 2005 10:49 AM 192 #191 OH PLEASE!!! You have got to be kidding. Did these idiots look at the map Pande posted? Their juvenile smears aren't going to work. All it tells me is that their clients are GUILTY and they don't have a LEG TO STAND ON. I thought they were describing Rove when they wrote "vile, detestable, moralistic person with no heart and no conscience who believes he's been tapped by God to do very important things." Or Bush of course. I mean who of us has been tapped by God? The only person I'm aware of is Bush. Posted by: Jeanne at October 24, 2005 10:53 AM 193 Sorry about the wrong # post. That is #189. Posted by: Jeanne at October 24, 2005 10:55 AM 194 Good morning, Sibel Edmunds update: Whistleblower Has Elite Interests Running Scared by Christian Nicholson [...]Sibel Edmonds is the most gagged person in the history of the United States, at least according to her ACLU lawyers. If gag orders were nickels, she'd be rich. Since her dismissal from the FBI in March 2002, Edmonds has borne the burden of state censorship with relative aplomb, working constantly within the law to make her story heard. After she gave a brief spate of interviews, John Ashcroft invoked the "state secrets" privilege, silencing her before the press and denying Edmonds her day in court. Apparently, her lawsuit involves secrets so secret that not even Edmonds' lawyers are allowed to know the reasons why her case cannot be tried. Aside from an independent investigator, the Supreme Court is her only remaining option, and the Court will decide whether or not to hear her case in mid-October. After the FBI fired her, Sibel Edmonds sued the bureau for negligent endangerment, negligent investigation, conversion of property, and infliction of emotional distress, among other things. During her six-month stint as a translator in the FBI's Washington, D.C., unit, she had stumbled upon what she alleges were serial acts of espionage on the part of one of her colleagues, Melek Can Dickerson, who worked with Edmonds evaluating all sorts of missives and communications, and translating into English those communications pertinent to ongoing FBI investigations. Dickerson, it turns out, was a former employee of the American-Turkish Council, a Turkish organization under investigation for espionage and bribing public officials, and she considered most of her former colleagues' communications to have no pertinence whatsoever. Edmonds thought otherwise and reported her colleague. Getting no response, Edmonds reported her again and again, moving up the chain of command until Edmonds herself was finally fired. Shortly thereafter, Dickerson and her husband fled the country. [...] [...]In the Edmonds case, it's not just "sensitive foreign relations" that are on the line, it's the Americans who are doing the sensitive relating. Indeed, a glance at the bigwigs involved in the American-Turkish Council reveals a panoply of hawks, former ambassadors and generals, and numerous lights of the three Bush administrations: the ATC Board of Directors chair is Brent Scowcroft, erstwhile national security adviser to Bush p?re; Dick Cheney himself is a former member, and many of his former colleagues at Halliburton remain on board, as do higher-ups at Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, Sikorsky, Northrop Grumman, Boeing, and Eli Lilly.[...] [...]Interestingly, Turkey seems to be engaged in more than just joint military exercises with Israel –†America's two quasi-allies are also both embroiled in espionage scandals, having spied in much the same manner. While ATC employees discussed corrupting civil servants and political appointees in Washington and Chicago, American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) staffers were sitting down with Lawrence Franklin, the Defense Department Iran analyst who was recently indicted for disclosing classified information about U.S. forces in Iraq, to glean sensitive information that they allegedly passed on to Israel. Clearly, in Sibel Edmonds v. Department of Justice, there's a great deal more involved than a wrongful dismissal. Also at stake are the ideological and material interests of the American Right, from the neoconservative intellectuals in the service of the military-industrial complex, to the erstwhile Cold Warriors still bent on denying Russia that warm-water port it has sought for much of the 20th century. These projects depend on a stable relationship with Turkey, a country whose loyalties were shaken before, during, and after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, which wrought enormous damage to the Turkish economy. Turkey, and the archipelago of Turkic and Muslim states that span Eurasia, are instrumental to U.S. foreign policy and are major clients for American arms. And so, with the same tired rhetoric that justified the excesses of America's authoritarian allies throughout the Cold War, Washington apparently would rather turn a blind eye to the ways in which these states (and America's own politicians) prosper in order to keep them appeased. If it costs the liberties of one former FBI translator –†or the security of a few thousand everyday citizens –†well, that's America: love it or leave it. Full article. ************ Let me begin by saying that I share many of Karen's concerns (#159) about the CIA, and indeed, all clandestine services, foreign and domestic. The history has been nothing less than horrific, with many of our current problems being blowback for past disasters. This is poignantly illustrated by Operation Iraqi Fubar - Saddam was an asassin for the CIA, after all, targeting Communists as the Ba'ath Party came to power. As well, many of us can rattle of the names of the foreign leaders overthrown by coups, such as Lumumba, Mossedeq and Allende or those who've been targeted and survived, such as Castro and Chavez. Then there is the whole domestic surveillance issue which is in the fore again today. But, these agencies do exist, and we learn an awful lot from folks like Ray McGovern, Larry Johnson, Daniel Ellsberg, and Sibel Edmunds, many of whom risk much to reveal the truth. Also, it must be said that these agencies are anything but monolithic - and the Directorate of Operations is probably the most insular of all. Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 24, 2005 11:10 AM 195 Two years ago a project set up by the men who now surround George W Bush said what America needed was "a new Pearl Harbor". Its published aims have, alarmingly, come true. : John Pilger :12 Dec 2002 "No stages," This is total war. We are fighting a variety of enemies. There are lots of them out there. All this talk about first we are going to do Afghanistan, then we will do Iraq... this is entirely the wrong way to go about it. If we just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely and we don't try to piece together clever diplomacy, but just wage a total war... our children will sing great songs about us years from now." Richard Pearle PNAC member and one of it's founders. ----------------- So, this was published in 2000 and we are supposed to believe that congress had absolutely no idea what these psychos were up to and what their goals were? Even though, on the morning of 12 September 2001, without any evidence of who the hijackers were, Rumsfeld demanded that the US attack Iraq, they didn't find that idea in the least bit strange? It's not like the PNAC was keeping their vision of America's place in the world a secret. And even today, they keep funding this madness while America sinks further and further into debt. Now they are all crying that they were deceived, the president misled them, boo hoo. I agree with Ritter, boot them all, they are traitors and stink of corruption. Posted by: Saladin at October 24, 2005 11:11 AM 196 I wonder what the distraction will be? A terrorist attack, take down the electrical grid, start a war (or admit we started a war) with Syria, Iran, or North Korea? My money is on Thursday for the distraction Friday for the indictments. If Fitzgerald wants to get some crazy street cred he will drop the bomb before Friday. It would show he is not worried about playing the media "bad news Friday" game. Makes for an interesting week. capt Posted by: capt at October 24, 2005 11:12 AM 197 Saladin, To the best of my knowlege, the "New Pearl Harbor" quote was originally from Zbigniew Brzezinski in "The Grand Chessboard." Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 24, 2005 11:37 AM 198 #187 capt, Amen!!! #189 micki, it sounds like W's pals are talking about W! Posted by: Gerald at October 24, 2005 01:04 PM 199 #196 It was supposed to be hurricane wilma but they got the intel wrong (again). So now they are planning a major earthquake in California for Tuesday. Head for the door jambs and stay clear of windows, capt. Posted by: Yelnats at October 24, 2005 08:49 PM

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