I think Bush is damned if he did know, and damned if he didn't. Neither way does he come out as a credible President.

We need to keep this going back to the reasons for going to war. He cooked the intelligence, and now he is getting burned!

Rove smeared the wrong person using the wrong people, and now he's going down. It's kind of fun to watch greasy pigs twist and squirm, almost as if they have human feelings. *dances around effigy* Keep them coming Mr. Corn.

One thought: It's time to flush the turdblossom.

"...That is not the way this President or this White House operates...," said Scott McClellan at a press briefing on July 22, 2003.

So, why is not everyone saying that contra McClellan, outing and smearing is standard operating procedure?

David, I read an interesting comment stating that the outing of Plame, for the reasons stated, didn't make sense. The undercover company she was with was in charge of keeping track of nukes, making sure none went astray. If it were just Plame who was exposed it wouldn't be as bad, though exposing a CIA agent is bad enough, the company she was with was also exposed, destroying the entire cover they were working under, which effectively shut them all down. So, who's keeping track of the nukes now? And, who benefitted from this treacherous act? Sure is a coincidence that larry franklin and AIPAC are embroiled in this mess as well. Now why would anyone want to ruin the mission Plame was on? HMMMMM.

From :antiwar.com

Dems Scrap Plans To Look Into Claims White House Manipulated Intel On Iraqi Threat

by Jason Leopold
Democrats in Congress have abandoned their efforts to investigate the White House's use of questionable intelligence information about Iraq's alleged stockpile of weapons of mass destruction, saying the issue has been "eclipsed" by President Bush's request for $87 billion from Congress to continue funding the war.

David Helfert, a spokesman for Congressman David Obey, D-Wisconsin, who criticized the White House for relying too heavily on murky intelligence to get support for the war, said Friday that Congressional Democrats would no longer pursue hearings on the intelligence matter.

"We're past that," Helfert said, referring to the intelligence issue. "Those questions were eclipsed by the supplemental request by President Bush for $87 billion" to fund the Iraq war. "Congress is focusing on asking questions about the $87 billion, what it will be used for and whether it's worth it. It would be a good characterization to say that the intelligence questions on Iraq and how the President came to believe that it had weapons of mass destruction are no longer an issue."
------------
And there you have it, bush lying is not an issue because we need to think about how to fund those lies. UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE!! The dems have struck out. The time has come for the tar and feathers!

US panel mulls caps on tax deductions
Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:49 AM ET

By Mark Felsenthal

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A panel appointed by U.S. President George W. Bush on Tuesday backed limiting tax breaks for housing and health care, in hopes of making the tax system simpler, fairer, and more friendly to economic growth.

The panel also agreed to give further thought to adding a partial value-added tax -- a sales tax collected at every stage of production -- to the existing tax system.
----------
So, taking more money away from us is supposed to make it more fair and be good for the economy? I don't know what kind of drugs these people are taking, but I sure wish they would share!

And there you have it, bush lying is not an issue because we need to think about how to fund those lies. UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE!!

What she said! A'ight folks, let's get to writing them letters! Unfortunately, my reps are all RED and it won't help much.
I'm listening to Scott Ritter from the Diane Rehm show as I read 'n type. He could be at the top of a new political party, in my opinion.

You can't AFFORD those drugs!

Don't ever manage squat

and just to be fair

Really evil polluting ugly bastard scophants

"What did the President know, and when did he know it" Get used to these words. We're going to be hearing them again. I think the Pres was in on it. Probably found out over a beer and barr-beee-que with the boys while camping out at the ranch. To me, the question will ultimately be this. Will everyone fall on their swords to protect Bush? Or not. And if there's a smoking gun, will Congress do anything about it.

"...in hopes of making the tax system simpler, fairer, and more friendly to economic growth."

*throws up hands* How do you fight against shyt like this? Like "Clear Skies" and all the others. Call it something that it's completely opposite of, and Americans just soak it all in. ugh!!

Damn, forgot the y which makes me think "Why can't we find someone better!?"

k, it's 27 minutes into the Diane Rehm Show when our Cornblogger Kathleen is the first call.
You go girl !!

Larry Franklin, Tom Delay, Bill Frist, Scooter Libby, Karl Rove, [Dick Cheney?], [George W. Bush?]...

There's something here that needs to be noted. These people are falling, not because of some partisan campaign by the Democrats. They're falling down all by themselves.

While some interpret this as a sign of weakness in the Democratic Party, that's a cynical view of our political process. A more hopeful reading is that there's still some life in our system; that it's working like it's supposed to work; and that the "free press" is an integral piece of the pie.

Thanks for playing your part.

What a herd of losers we have in Washington.
As far as Rove is concerned...what can I say? The guy has no inkling of what the word moral means. Very depraved and doesn't have the understanding how depraved he is. As long as the world bends for him everything is right and just.
If that isn't frightening enough, Cheney is the same way. And Bush is a puppet.

I am deeply disappointed in Rove becuase he is my mentor and I have tried to emulate him in my posts.

I have more respect for Michael Deaver who worked for Reagan when he pleaded being drunk after certain allegations were made against him. I would have more respect for Rove and a plea of drunken behavior.

Insubordination is a ridiculous plea, especially for a kiss ass like Rove.

I was listening to NPR today and heard Dobson. Ish. He was trying to explain away his statement about being assured Miers was hunkey dorey. The problem you see is that the Democrats made such a stink that now he has to explain himself. Again. For being such a 'weak, ineffective and dying' party they sure cause a lot of problems.

Your sense of coy does not reflect well on you. I frankly find it condescending.

Those sonsofbitches Big Lied this nation into war with Iraq. Why pull your punches?

Finally, finally, questions being asked and answers demanded.
---------

WHIGging Out

This story has never been fully aired to the public for reasons the mainstream press has to answer for. If the Iraq Group (WHIG), which implicates all the big players in this, possibly even the president, becomes a part of a federal criminal case, it will likely also become the subject of intense media scrutiny.

Finally.

I wonder if Miller exposed an "anonymous source" to Libby.? Wasn't Wilson being used as one in article critical of Bush at the time of this new found conversation with Libby? And wasn't the same newspaper that she worked for? just wondering. Keep up the good post!

Kids, when you come to my house, I hand out candy. I mean lots of candy. Sometimes, if I like the kid, I hand out 5 bars.

I will not be handing out this.

Halloween Wingnuttia Continued: Carman and the Monsters

#6 That article you cited was written in September 2003 -- granted, it is disconcerting that Congress focused on the $87 billion "supplement" and not on the murky intel, but THAT was then, THIS is now. Two years later...

We know a helluva lot more about the cooked intel than we did back then in 2003. Also, it was Senator Roberts (Refucklican-KS) who stopped the investigation back then -- then the Refucklican-controlled House followed suit, if I remember correctly.

Saladin, sorry, but the Dems (not all) are not pissing away our democracy and doing nothing as you routinely claim.

Jeanne, the Washington Dems deserve the bad rap they have. They have passed up countless chances to raise a holy stink in the public forum that could have brought this administration down. Unanswered questions about 9/11, noticable voting irregularities, a gay prostitute in the "moral" White House, ect, ect... The tip of the knife may still be good for a few jabs but for the most part the blade has become very dull.

Alan, I think it is past time for letter writing, it didn't work, they aren't listening to us. And, they don't read them anyway. What options do we have when US reps are paid off by lobbyists and corp. interests. What can we do to FORCE them to pay attention? When they come right out and admit that they aren't interested in pursuing the lies that have killed so many thousands of innocent people and have exposed our young men and women to DU poisoning, and have cost so many lives and limbs, what the hell do you do? while we inflict a faux democracy at gunpoint in the middle east, ours has crumbled into oblivion.

ACTION ITEM IF YOUR SENATOR SITS ON COMMERCE COMMITTEE:

#20 -- Good points made there, Jeanne. As an adjunct to the story: regarding the phony news that the WH and WHIG routinely pulls out of their asses...

Senators Lautenberg and Kerry have introduced S.967 Truth in Broadcasting Act of 2005 which would make it illegal to use taxpayer (citizens!) money to pay for government-produced and disseminated video news releases.

If your senator (Dem or Repub) is on the Commerce Committee, contact him/her and urge their support for this important legislation.

micki, they had a chance to bring this whole thing to a screeching halt two freaking years ago, they didn't even try. Disconcerting sure is an understatement. And you may believe that they were ignorant about the facts, but I will never believe that. And even if they were ignorant that is all the more reason to get the facts before handing over 87 billion dollars for a war that was based on flimsy evidence at best. That much they did know. Considering how they accepted that bullshit 9/11 commission whitewash without even batting an eye is proof that they most certainly have been pissing away our democracy by their inaction, along with every one of them signing off on that facist Patriot act without without even F**KING reading it! If that isn't pissing it away, I don't know what is.

Saladin, I'm not interesting in fighting with you. You see it your way. I see it a little differently. So be it. I try to put things into context -- but I think that makes me "tainted" in your mind. So be it to that, too.

I also prefer facts to assumptions.

Prelude to war

Amen Corner

President Defrocked

I'm guessing the "hands-off" Bush never asked Rove to explain his actions regarding the outing of Valerie Plame-Wilson. I believe the personal dynamic is such that GW understands that it is Rove and Cheney who figure things out and his job is to do what they tell him. In the privacy of the White House, it seems likely that Bush and his two "brains" drop the public pretense that George is in charge. (Recall what Ron Suskind said in his book about fired Treas. Secy Paul O'Neill, that Cabinet meetings with Bush seemed like scripted affairs orchestrated in advance--no spontaneous give and take.)So I'd be suprised if it ever comes out that Bush knew early on and was orchestrating what Turd Blossom was saying to reporters. It makes eminent sense, however, that Cheney's been in it up to his ass from day one. I am one of those who believe it exceedingly likely that Cheney was behind the fraudulent document "confirming" that Saddam was getting uranium from Niger; Cheney is a master of dark arts.

Once Rove and possibly Cheney get indicted, Bush will be lost. I honestly don't think he has a clue. It should be interesting.

I just got back from the future and bring with me Rush Limbaugh's defense of Bush's comments.

[I have told....people in my administration to be fully cooperative.]

RL: He didn't say he told everyone to be cooperative. Obviously he didn't tell Karl, or Karl would have been cooperative.

[I want to know the truth.]

RL: And Karl tells him the truth every day. But the President does say here what he wants to know the truth about.

[If anybody has got any information inside our administration or outside our administration, it would be helpful if they came forward with the information so we can find out whether or not these allegations are true.]

RL: It would be helpful. This is not a command or a directive, just a suggestion that Karl is perfectly free to ignore.

[If somebody did leak classified information, I'd like to know, and we'll take the appropriate action.]

RL: Still not an order, just stating a preference.

[And if people have got solid information, please come forward with it]

RL: Karl's information was never solid. His defense has been liquid, and most of what comes out of his mouth is gaseous. Nothing solid.

[And we can clarify this thing very quickly if people who have got solid evidence would come forward and speak out. And I would hope they would....I want to know who the leakers are.]

RL: Not a direct order in there anywhere. We all hope things. We all want things. This is not the same as requesting things.

RL: Show me where Bush said: "I've spoken to Karl Rove, the same Karl Rove who put me in office, and I have asked him point-blank if he has any information whatsoever on the Valerie Wilson-Plame matter that I don't know, and I ordered him, Karl Rove, to tell me--directly and immediately and completely--any information that he possesses or receives regarding the Plame leak allegations." Anything less than that is just partisan posturing by desperate Democrats.

-- That's Rush's defense of Bush. The MSM was busy that week with a much more important story concerning the breakup of Jessica Simpson and Nick Lachey.

Since I have the benefit of knowing how all this turns out, I'll bet you're all dying to know. OK, I'll tell you:

Jessica and Nick got back together.

One of your most well written pieces.
Thank you for putting forth the effort to write a quality article.

cornbloggers, i been lurking for weeks since last i spoke. just want all to know, I learn from some good points here. The repub problems can fix us, propel us(to ?),or not change a thing. The Dems are very weak publicly but maybe can take some credit for the current pressure. I'll give the internet major points over the MSM. In fact , I think Rove would walk if not for blogs. My religion is that we interpret the good book back asswords. We should be striving to achieve the garden of eden not evolving away from it.Keep the dialog up there!!!!Buffalo

Although it heartens me immensely to witness the exposition of this administration's beltway pile-up of scandals and corruption, I still retain a strong, foreboding sense that we, the American public, will never discover the FULL TRUTH of any of them.

At least perhaps, not until years after this administration ceases to exist.

And at which time truth will have been pre-empted by more of the same - regardless of party affilliation.

Such is politics. Such is truth.

micki, you are in no way tainted in my mind, that alone is a ridiculous assumption in no way based on fact. You want to put things in context, so please enlighten me, what is the context? Signing into law something that hasn't even been read because of lies that provoke panic, what is the context here? I never thought our dialogue was considered fighting, I don't know why you would. You have placed your faith in a political system that has done nothing but let us down in the past 5 years, this is right and left. Some of the most sane voices I have heard are repubs from Texas for gods sake! We have Conyers and McKinney on the left, where are the rest? Screaming for more troops in Iraq! I admire your dedication and concern, but your faith is ill placed IMHO. But we all do what we feel is right. I will never trust or respect any politician until they earn it, and they don't seem very concerned about what we think, as far as I can see. I am waiting for the party that will scream bloody murder until we get change, and the dems aren't it.

Rove is this administration's junkyard dog.

He suggested to Bush that something must be done about Wilson.

Bush gave the green light.

Rove conspired with Cheney, Cheney conspired with Libby, and together they set the ball rolling.

This administration is nothing if not LOYAL, so it is no surprise to see them circling the wagons.

The genius of it all is that the Gang of Four (Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld, Rice) for all intents and purposes, runs this country, (and even they answer to outside others) and they convice Bush that HE runs the country, and as he is being played by them, they are being played by the outside others.

*convince

You have no idea where I "place my faith."

EOM

Astroboy,
The truth will come out. I never in a million years thought the truth about Iran Contra would be common knowledge and the facts are there. History Professors are teaching it. (fire them say the neocons- hell no say the students)
It's the same with evolution, the Christian Right can stamp their feet and try to rewrite the history of the planet but the fossils do tell tales.

micki, I read all your posts, I have a pretty good idea where you place your faith. This is from your post #91 on the last thread, "Here, in random order, are just a few of these regularly producing writers who keep alive hope and intelligent resistance; this Honor Roll includes: Arianna Huffington, Sidney Blumenthal, John W. Dean, Jonathan Turley, Bill Moyers, Evelyn Pringle, Greg Palast, Howard Zinn, Amy Goodman, Ray McGovern, Naomi Klein, David Podvin, Scott Ritter, Robert Parry, Jim Hightower, Ralph Nader, Karen Kwiatkowski, Jason Leopold, Georgie Anne Geyer, Paul Craig Roberts, Chalmers Johnson, David Swanson, Tom Engelhardt, Bill Van Auken, David Lindorff, Alex Cockburn, Jim Lobe, Ted Rall, Elaine Cassell, Thom Hartmann, Gary Leupp, Jennifer Von Bergen, Bob Fertik, David Corn, Ted Kahl, Will Pitt, Jeff St. Clair, Rob Kall, Ivan Eland, Norman Solomon, Paul Lukasiak."

They forgot one of my favorites, Molly Ivans.

Tell me micki, what is the one thing most of these people have in common?

Faith is a good thing. Gerald has faith, that doesn't mean what he believes is the truth. None of us can make that claim.

BTW, what does EOM mean?

New poll commissioned by Downing street minutes

Poll: Americans Favor Bush's Impeachment If He Lied about Iraq

"By a margin of 50% to 44%, Americans want Congress to consider impeaching President Bush if he lied about the war in Iraq, according to a new poll commissioned by AfterDowningStreet.org, a grassroots coalition that supports a Congressional investigation of President Bush's decision to invade Iraq in 2003.

The poll was conducted by Ipsos Public Affairs, the highly-regarded non-partisan polling company. The poll interviewed 1,001 U.S. adults on October 6-9.

The poll found that 50% agreed with the statement:

"If President Bush did not tell the truth about his reasons for going to war with Iraq, Congress should consider holding him accountable by impeaching him."

44% disagreed, and 6% said they didn't know or declined to answer. The poll has a +/- 3.1% margin of error.

Among those who felt strongly either way, 39% strongly agreed, while 30% strongly disagreed.

"The results of this poll are truly astonishing," said AfterDowningStreet.org co-founder Bob Fertik. "Bush's record-low approval ratings tell just half of the story, which is how much Americans oppose Bush's policies on Iraq and other issues. But this poll tells the other half of the story - that a solid plurality of Americans want Congress to consider removing Bush from the White House.""

------------
Power to the people.

Writing, emailing or calling your representatives does work. Even if you're stuck with cons, at least they'll know you're keeping an eye on their dirty deeds. If nothing else, they can't say that they were unaware of our opinions.
Whenever I sign a petition and my congressman is notified, he sends me a letter. The last one was, shall I say, less than flattering to Great Leader which is a good sign, that the Dems no longer feel the need to kow tow for political reasons (or fear of revenge).
Anyway, if you're a political junkie (and if not, why are you reading this) then I suggest you write your reps just so you have a nice frameable letter for your office wall. It will cover that hole you punched in the wall when Smirky "won".

Cheney's role in outing of CIA agent under examination, sources close to prosecutor say

Raw Story
Those close to Fitzgerald say they have yet to uncover any evidence that suggests Cheney ordered the leak or played a role in the outing of Mrs. Wilson. Still, the sources said they are investigating claims that Cheney may have been involved based on his attendance at meetings of the Iraq group. Previous reports indicate Cheney was intimately involved with the framing of the Iraq war.

We have real heros in this country. They can't be forgotten. Or denied. Joe Wilson is one of them. He would not give up. He would not shut up. He would not go away. Thank you Joseph Wilson.

#42 Molly Ivins is on the list, but in a separate category that I didn't cut and paste -- read the article by Weiner. It's great.

#44 Terri in S. FL -- Oh! I am so glad that you believe that contacting elected officials is worthwhile! Well, maybe not worthwhile...but at least worth taking the time. ;-))

I firmly believe that keeping elected reps feet to the fire is just as valuable as voicing opinions on a blog.

In my blue state, with two Fem Dem Senators and a Dem Congressman, I can say that I get reaction from them -- especially my Representative in the House. He has let me down on some issues and I give him hell, but I know he listens to constituents because he or his chief-of-staff has called me and asked for input, feedback, ideas, etc.

Or am I supposed to be jaded, and figure he's just fucking me over for his own benefit?

It ain't easy being a journalist or a politician these days.

EOM = End of Message

Does letter writing make a difference? There are Republican congressmen and senators who are not running for re-election. Why? Because they know what their constinuents think. The wheels are slowing turning in this country because the people have been heard. I always tell my kids, change doesn't happen overnight. Not always. Sometimes things like Katrina happens and reality comes into focus but change was happening. Katrina speeded it up.

David, I am sure President Bush wishes he would have taken some "bold action" a while back in regard to this investigation. Like actually putting some action behind some of his words.

# 23 Micki Thanks for finding the date for the article Saladin posted, I knew it was from several years ago. ( I could not find it). We do know more now. Although there was a great deal being written several years ago..telling the story just the way it turns out. Justin Raimando at antiwar. com. Mother Jones "Lie Factory" was full of the details, Lt.Col Karen Kwaitowski "The new Pentagon papers" the film Move On put out called "The Truth uncovered". Was it Justin Borger at the Guardian who was writing about the false intelligence before anyone else. There was so much written even 2 years ago. Let us not forget Iaea's Mr. El Baradei statements in March of 2003 at the UN telling the world the Niger documents were false documents and bad ones at that.

There was so much being written. So many forewarned of exactly where we are. So many dead and injured as a result.

I will not give up even though as Saladin has accurately pointed out, our representatives are not doing their job. WE NEED TO PUSH AND PUSH HARD..THEY NEED TO HEAR AND SEE US.

If Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation does not include the who where and why of (ALL OF) the fabricateD intelligence. THEN WE MUST DEMAND PHASE II OF THE SENATE SELECT COMMITTE ON INTELLIGENCE BE IMPLENTED IMMEDIATELY AFTER WE FIND OUT THE RESULTS OF THIS INVESTIGATION.

IF THESE FOLKS ARE NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE.. WE WILL SOON BE BLOGGING ABOUT SYRIA AND IRAN..WE KNOW THEY ARE LAYING THE GROUND WORK FOR MILITARY ACTION IN BOTH SYRIA AND IRAN. LISTEN TO THE NEWS.....EVERYWHERE IT IS BLAIR AND IRAN...BUSH AND SYRIA.....
Many of the characterS who brought us the invasion.. John Bolton has been very busy at the Un, moving Iran closer to being put on the hit list. Wolfowitz, Perle, Woolsey, Rumsfeld, Wurmser's,,Ledeen have also been busy planning their next move, to "secure the realm". It is our responsiblity to hold these killers accountable. We owe this to the tens of thousands of people who have died. These people have committed crimes against humanity.

OH, thanks goodness Miss Miers had the White House Christmas card rewritten because she
*judged* it was not well-written! What qualifications! Get thee to the Supreme Court!

This article in WaPo made be GAG!
________________________________

For Miers, Proximity Means Power
As President's Confidante, Court Nominee Is Noted as Student of the Process

By Amy Goldstein and Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, October 13, 2005; Page A01

Tonight's "Nightline" topic..."LOOSE NUKE on MAIN STREET!!!"

F'n Fearmongers!

Saladin, the more I learn about what they're tellin' local cops and (especially) the Fed Security guys (Jill's back in NOLA with 'em, where they're being told not to appear in public with their FEMA ID's or DMAT uniforms, because of the ill-will they've encountered b/c of their bosses' F-Ups!) The more I'm coming around to your "Gun Registration only helps 'em know who to take them away from" way of thinking.

I guess I'm just TOO naive!

Comin' out west 10/21st!

-T

The first article that I read in the MSM about the fabricated intelligence was Jullian Borger's article "THE SPIES WHO PUSHED FOR WAR" in the July 17th 2003 issue of the Guardian.
Well that is after hearing Madeline Albright, Scott Ritter, General Zinni, Robert McNamara. many Cia analyst, Iaea's Mr. El Baradei forewarn before the invasion....of exactly where we are....In a quagmire. I sincerely hope and pray...we will not be going into Iran and Syria....

Kathleen, yes we do know more now. And, yes, many of us - based on what was known 2 years ago were skeptical - but, whether we admit it or not, we didn't know everything.

I was totally convinced that the bushevik version of WMD intel was, at the least, manipulated to their advantage...but I do not know to this day what kind of hyped-up classified (by the busheviks, granted) bullshit they fed to members of Congress that could have made it difficult for them to act counter to their own instincts.

Am I naive? I don't think so.

BTW,

The strangest thing happened when I took Jill to GSP to fly out to Lafayette (from where she drove to NOLA) yesterday. Without any asking on my part, they gave me a special "Security Cleared" pass, so I could escort her right up to the gate. We breezed through security (I was wearing scrubs and sandals) and right to the plane. I guess my name's not on the "tackle, beat to a pulp and anal probe repeatedly" list. (well, at least not THIS week)

It was weird, but then I talked to some people who told me that TSA has been taking lots of flack for slowing down a lot of FEMA folks...

All the same, I wonder what might be slipping through out there...

-T

History tell the real story. It doesn't flinch. It doesn't forget.
On Democracy Now today there are two women who report of the systematic torture and the killing of entire villages by military men on the CIA payroll.
The torture we saw in Abu Ghraib is nothing new. Many of the same techniques were used in Latin America.
As more becomes known about the actions of our governemnt it is necessary to work actively to end it. That means letter writing, calling, emailing. If citizens let their representatives know that they know it has happened then those elected officials can no longer claim ignorance. Anything less on our part will encourage it. We cannot allow this to continue through our silence.

Jennifer Harbury on Why Guatemalan Villagers Refuse Military Aid in Mudslide, Remembering Decades of Torture and Massacres

This is from the transcript.

"JENNIFER HARBURY: Certainly. What I do in the book is show that the types of torture, the very horrible things that we're seeing in the photographs out of Abu Ghraib, like the use of dogs, holding people in water pits in the Afghan file, the water boarding things, the stress and duress positions, the excruciating positions, sleep deprivation, etc., etc., that those are very standard CIA torture techniques that were used all over Latin America, including Guatemala. In my husband's case, for example, was the water pit. That's in his files. People in Retalhuleu Military Base were held in water pits with the water so deep they had to hold on to overhead bars to keep from drowning.

But what I also show in the book is not only that the exact same techniques were used, but that very often there were North Americans walking in and out of the torture cells themselves, which, of course, is a very different thing from what we were told during those decades, which was that we were just trying to professionalize the army, make sure they had good weaponry, etc., etc., but we had no participation in the death squad activities or the torture or massacres that were occurring."

Jennifer Harbury, author of Truth, Torture and the American Way, Director of the Unitarian Universalist Service Committee’≥ Stop Torture Permanently campaign.

Kathleen and Saladin -- when it gets down to the basics, we're in this big friggin' mess because we Americans were raised on a steady diet of thinking we're the biggest, the best, the smartest, the brightest, the shining beacon on the hill, the invincible.

The Greatest Generation fell for it, and they fed their kids the same crapola after WWII -- we became mesmerized by our "greatness." Americans never asked questions. We just sat back and believed our own press notices. We didn't participate in the process -- and now we're at the 11th hour.

Even now, most Americans don't know what the fuck is going on. You could ask 25 Americans "Who is Harriet Miers?" And 24 of them would not have a clue.

We're a major part of the problem. You should be bitching just as much at your community citizens, as you are at politicians, journalists, and other targeted groups who have let you down.

From the Attywood blog:

The President's day: One high crime and two misdemeanors

Since Attytood is now officially a "liberal journalist" according to Slate.com, we feel it's our duty to report that many on the farther left have been agitating in recent days for the impeachment of President Bush, primarily on the grounds of deliberately lying to the American people about Iraq. But why stop there. Just today alone, Bush committed at least one "high crime" and two "misdemeanors," by our casual tally.

Let's review:

The act: President Bush said Wednesday that Harriet Miers' religious beliefs figured into her nomination to the Supreme Court as a top-ranking Democrat warned against any "wink and a nod" campaign for confirmation.

"People are interested to know why I picked Harriet Miers," Bush told reporters at the White House. "Part of Harriet Miers' life is her religion."

Misdemeanor No. 1: In using religion as a key basis for offering Miers a job, the president would appear to have violated the spirit, if not the letter, of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. According to the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, Title VII of the law "prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin."

Misdemeanor No. 2: More specifically, one could make the case that Bush's actions are also in violation of the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978, which specifically covers federal employees. According to the same EEOC primer: "The CSRA prohibits any employee who has authority to take certain personnel actions from discriminating for or against employees or applicants for employment on the bases of race, color, national origin, religion, sex, age or disability."

High crime: As you might expect, the "high crime" here is more serious, and is also the area where it's hardest to argue that the president did not cross the line. We are referring to Article VI, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution, which states that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

Do you honestly believe that Harriet Miers -- with all her other qualifications exactly the same -- would have been nominated to the Supreme Court if she had been Jewish, or an atheist, or Muslim? Of course not, because the president and Karl Rove, or Andy Card, or whoever's really running things these days, knew that such a choice would not pass muster with the radical clerics who sit on "the board of directors" of Bushco.

A mid-level bureaucrat who treated a job vacancy in this manner would surely be fired. Shouldn't we hold the president of the United States to an even higher standard?

George W. Bush has an easy choice now. He can withdraw Miers' nomination. Or he can be impeached.

micki, you are right, we have been living under an illusion. And believe me, I HAVE been working hard to enlighten my friends and fellow citizens, and have actually made some pretty good progress. I firmly believe it is up to us, the people, to bring about change. If we, who are not privy to the intel politicians have, were very suspicious of the story they were feeding us, then why is it that the politicians themselves have been playing dumb all this time? Even though they have all the current information most are still beating the war drums. Why is that? Someone is receiving protection, and I think that if we follow the money, we will find out who that someone is. Hopefully Fitzgerald is doing just that.
Hajji, please keep me updated on your trip. If you can't make it up my way I will arrange to meet you somewhere in the L.A. area.

Investigator of CIA leak seen as relentless
Colleagues, rival lawyers describe prosecutor as aggressive, apolitical

By Judy Keen
USA TODAY

WASHINGTON ? When defense attorney Ron Safer heard that Patrick Fitzgerald would lead an inquiry into the leak of a CIA operative's name, his first thought was that, from the Bush administration's perspective, ?they could not have picked a worse person.?

Safer, a Chicago lawyer who has watched Fitzgerald since he was named U.S. attorney there in 2001, says the prosecutor ?will bring to this the same energy and aggression that he does to every other project he undertakes.?

Fitzgerald's official biography says he was named special counsel in December 2003 to investigate ?the alleged disclosure of the identity of a purported employee of the Central Intelligence Agency.?

?To say that he is extremely aggressive is, I think, a gross understatement,? Safer says. When he's arguing a motion, Safer says, Fitzgerald is ?not disrespectful, but he's a lot less deferential than I bet most judges are accustomed to.?

*****end of clip*****

It is hard to be teased with these stories. I am WAY too cynical. I read a piece like the above and wonder if it is just a set-up. *perish the thought*

I hope Fitzgerald does what is right. I have my doubts.

capt

If there is any justice in the world today Rove will be toast and rightly so as the doughboy worries about his weight. Un-re-touched "before" photo HERE.

They say Bush's brain but I say Dummy string puller and some of those voices Dubya hears.

I am glad Rove took a clear position when questioned. He might have done us all a favor.

capt

Is it time to think BB - Beyond Bush...
just maybe his all time low drops in the polls will not recover much, what should be the BB strategy because as the influence of the Bush admin weakens and his closest allies/advisors go in to less visible roles if not some resign what will happen...
the indiana supply-side type repubs will push for further dismantling of federal government and weakening further its oversight of corporations, environment and energy... other coalitions will form in the repubs (an 'evangelical' one).... and will the demos get an act together, can they form a stronger body than the potentially divided repubs and make a move in '08... or will they let Dean scream and Clinton run? Ugh, where is the party that can restore confidence in "we the people as a government" versus "we the people against the government"... no more dynasties and monarchs from the Bush family or elsewhere please... and no "USA, Inc" either please!

*nuttin' really new here, but it's verification and more that we can rub their noses in

Report Says White House Ignored C.I.A. on Iraq Chaos

WASHINGTON, Oct. 12 - A review by former intelligence officers has concluded that the Bush administration "apparently paid little or no attention" to prewar assessments by the Central Intelligence Agency that warned of major cultural and political obstacles to stability in postwar Iraq.

The unclassified report was completed in July 2004. It appeared publicly for the first time this week in Studies in Intelligence, a quarterly journal, and was first reported Wednesday in USA Today. The journal is published by the Center for the Study of Intelligence, which is part of the C.I.A. but operates independently.

The review was conducted by a team led by Richard J. Kerr, a former deputy director of central intelligence, working under contract for the C.I.A. It acknowledged the deep failures in the agency's prewar assessments of Iraq's weapons programs but said "the analysis was right" on cultural and political issues related to postwar Iraq.

Mr. Kerr's review did not describe those findings in detail. But The New York Times first reported last year that two classified reports prepared for President Bush in January 2003 had predicted that an American-led invasion of Iraq would increase support for political Islam and would result in a deeply divided Iraqi society prone to violent internal conflict.

Those reports were by the National Intelligence Council, the highlevel group responsible for producing the government's most authoritative intelligence assessments.

UN paints grim picture of condition of women

Oct 13, 2005
By Christian V. Esguerra
Inquirer News Service

Editor's Note: Published on page A5 of the Oct. 12, 2005 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer

AT LEAST one in every five women will become a victim of rape or attempted rape, and one out of three will be "beaten, coerced into sex ....by a family member or an acquaintance" in her lifetime, according to the State of the World Population 2005 report.

The report, released yesterday by the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), painted another grim picture of women’≥ condition worldwide.

"Gender-based violence is perhaps the most widespread and socially tolerated human rights violations," said the UNFPA report.

"Violence kills and disables as many women between the ages of 15 and 44 as cancer," it said.

In the Philippines, police records show an average of 20 cases of violence against women every day, said lawyer Evelyn Dunuan of the National Commission on the Role of Filipino Women.

*****end of clip*****

This will get some play but not a ratings subject. It should get WAY more attention than the avian flu.

How we treat each other is more important than anything. Without regard for gender, race, or anything else we need to teach people to live in harmony with themselves and others.

"Most people receive very little training on how to live effectively and harmoniously with themselves and others. This I believe is an unfortunate outcome of our parenting beliefs and methods, as well as society's educational systems. It seems to me these beliefs and systems empathize academic and vocational skills and place little or no emphasis or value on providing a person with the essential skills to live a life of personal fulfillment, contribution and self actualization. I believe it would be a safe assumption that the great majority of people work at jobs in which they find very little personal satisfaction. Without proper training on how to make wise choices in one's life, the chances are very slim anyone will make them." ~ Sidney Madwed

capt

"...or will they let Dean scream and Clinton run?

Stanley, I caught Dean earlier on the Letterman show and he was pretty good, actually. Dave got him on the "hide the sausage" comment he made on Hardball. haha But yeah, he got spontaneous clapping several times for his answers to Dave's questions. Letterman must be a repug tho, cause he kept trying to clean up the answers some, or be 'fair' or sumshyt by pointing out dem fk-ups too. Oh well...

Did y'all see Keith Olbermann's video at Crooks... 'bout the timing of all these 'terror threat warnings'? It's a good piece.

Hmm...

Cheney's presence at meetings is of interest to Fitzgerald

O'Reilly sees Rove indictment leading to downfall of Bush

Egads the rats are trying to get the scoop... gee all we need is Novak to give a mea culpa... oh actually he already kind of did that awhile back.

If there is an indictment that includes Cheney... we might just see Bush trying to be president all by his lonesome... that would be a downfall, and it is time to start thinking "Beyond Bush" or BB... even if George is still there who enters the obvious power vacuum... does he call Dad or Uncle Jim (Baker), or maybe his Brother Jeb... or does he cave to Delay (well that could have been a plan), maybe he'll call Frist (well that could have been a plan)... who do ya call when most of your party leaders are trying to fight their own investigations... maybe call Trent?... VP Jim Dobson, Secretary of State Pat Robertson (go get Venezuala), National Security Advisor Chuck Reed... hey he still got Gonzalez and maybe he'll pull back Miers into FBI director or something... well we are talking BB

Sorry but still fixated on torture. And who condoned this. Starting with Bush but including the current attourney general.

Ill be on this like ugly on an ape. Aint about to back off.

When we practice torture we condone it.

It comes back to haunt...........our troops.

They are way too exposed as it is.
I don't see the need to keep making the troops victim to the hems and haws of the media.

The wheels are coming off this admin. The writing is on the wall. It offended it's base.......how stupid.

How predictable

’Character' Vanishes From Public Discourse

by Robert Steinback

So why isn't character on the table this time?

Character, we were all so piously told seven years ago, was what elevated Bill Clinton's lie about an extramarital dalliance to an issue of national gravity and justified his impeachment. It was a lie that, to those of us who were not hyperventilating with rage, seemed trivial compared to matters concerning the ship of state, even if it was a lie told under oath in a trumped-up civil trial.

No, no, no, we were scolded; it goes to the character of the man. If you can't rely on a leader to confess before the entire ogling world that he dropped his pants for the wrong woman, how could you trust anything he said? Our children would abandon all respect for honesty, integrity and propriety, using the excuse, ``Well, the president did it. Why can't I?''

These dire predictions of social anarchy struck me as absurdly exaggerated, but the standard was set. Or so we thought.

In rode a new administration and party promising to raise the bar on character. As I see it, they've splintered that bar into toothpicks.

And yet, isn't it curious how in the public discourse today one rarely hears references to character as a material issue with respect to political leadership? If an extramarital affair was proof of a vacant character, wouldn't questionable actions that actually affect people -- soldiers, covert agents, Congress, storm victims and the like -- be exponentially more serious?

Apparently not. The word from the character crowd today is that we mustn't involve ourselves in the ''blame game.'' We're told that we must wait until people are actually found guilty at trial before we dare venture an opinion on whether their actions were unseemly.

*****end of clip*****

We do not have to wonder what the GOPhers would do if the tides were changed, we got that example with president Clinton.

One pretty big difference: President Clinton kept doing his job, Bush has NEVER even started.

capt

What God Really Told Bush Apparently, it wasn't just "invade Iraq and Afghanistan in my name." A special report

By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist

Wednesday, October 12, 2005

Scene: White House private residence, night, not long ago. President Bush present in his most favoritest guns 'n' bunnies PJs. Laura asleep, knocked out by a combination of too much Good Housekeeping and excessive hair-spray fumes. Suddenly, a burst of black smoke. A deep, resonant voice speaks:

"Psst! George! God here, taking a break from supervising the well-being of eight billion troubled souls along with infinite galaxies of unimaginable vastness to speak with you directly one more time because, well, you're special, aren't you, George? Yes you are! Yes you are! OK, stop giggling. I have more commands. Get off the damn hobbyhorse, George, and get a pen and a notepad. No, not a crayon. I don't care if blue is your favori-- George! Get a pen! OK? Good. Here we go:

"As you know, I'm not quite what everyone thinks. I am not all benevolence and love and light. In fact, I have a downright dark side, mean and nasty and cunning, and I want you, George, to continue to be my special right-hand man. My special little guy. In fact, you shall help enact my wrath, Dubya. Doesn't that sound fun?

"There are three things I love, George: war, revenge, suffering. Oh, and smiting the heathens. OK, four things. And kickboxing. Five things. There are five things I love, Dubya. You with me? And you and your demon monkeys are enacting the first four admirably, George. Don't be shy, go ahead and tell those Palestinian officials you were commanded by God to 'restore peace' in the Middle East by bombing nearly defenseless, pip-squeak Iraq and Afghanistan to smithereens. They love that stuff.

"But let's put the delicious war stuff aside for a moment. I need to round out my oeuvre. Here's the plan: I'm gonna wreak some major havoc on one of your poorest, most racially mixed, underfunded cities by hurling a massive hurricane at them, flooding the place and killing hundreds of poor people you don't even know exist because you thought they all lived somewhere in Africa. It's all right, the biggest city, New Orleans, will be full of Kerry-loving Democrats. Yeah, I thought you'd like that.

*****end of clip*****

A morning with a little humor and coffee!

capt

Companies have not been in such shape since the Depression

$88 billion in debt may become junk

By CAROLINE SALAS
Bloomberg News

Investors face greater risks, while companies once considered safe and now classified as so-called "fallen angels" may see borrowing costs rise.

Not since the Depression of 1929 has corporate America received so many black eyes. General Motors, the world's largest automaker, Sears Holdings Corp., the biggest U.S. department store chain, and Eastman Kodak Co., the largest photography company, led 27 borrowers whose $499 billion of outstanding debt obligations suffered the ignominy of being downgraded to junk.

And if history is any guide, there will be no rebound soon. "You don't see companies get downgraded and work their way up, by and large," said Greg Peters, head of U.S. credit strategy at New York-based Morgan Stanley.

Peters should know. His firm helped the finance unit of Ford Motor Co., the second-largest U.S. automaker, sell $750 million of bonds in March that S&P lowered to BB+, or junk, on May 5. Bonds rated below BBB- at S&P or below Baa3 at Moody's Investors Service are considered junk.

*****end of clip*****

Some say the economy is rolling along? The truth is, not so much. Bunnypants’ failed fiscal policies can be seen everywhere you look.

capt

Capt, dubya can't even balance his OWN checkbook, I don't know why his base thought he could keep America's financing in line. Maybe it's called, "faith based checking!"

Speaking of "Junk"...

_______________

FRIST SUBPOENA'D

SEC Issues Subpoena To Frist, Sources Say
Records Sought On Sale of Stock

By Carrie Johnson and Jeffrey H. Birnbaum
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, October 13, 2005; Page A01

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) has been subpoenaed to turn over personal records and documents as federal authorities step up a probe of his July sales of HCA Inc. stock, according to sources familiar with the investigation.

The Securities and Exchange Commission issued the subpoena within the past two weeks, after initial reports that Frist, the Senate's top Republican official, was under scrutiny by the agency and the Justice Department for possible violations of insider trading laws....
______________

Sorry for the registration, but.....

-T

At least it is either good news, or entertaining distraction, to know that these Criminals aren't completely "Above the Law"...

"Ah AM the Lieu!"

-Inspector Clouseau

Hajji, I sure wish they'd tell us who was responsible for all those lucky pre-9/11 put options. 2 million, I believe, in profit. I heard no one stepped forward to collect the bloody loot.

Saladin,

We'll get up there. My sister has expressed a strong desire to go as far north as Tahoe, so you'll be on the way...OH MY GODS!!!

I just heard a thumping at the back door. Ezzy had gotten her silly goat head stuck in a plastic beach pail and was bangin' repeatedly into the SLIDER!!! Freekin' HILLARIOUS!!!

The day just got better!

-T

Hajji, you're cutting it close for a trip to Tahoe! I will keep my fingers crossed for 2 more weeks of beautiful fall weather. The quaking aspens are absolutely gorgeous right now.

ISRAELIS were 9-11 short sale stock buyers, betting on WTC terror strikes, story killed...

"Between August 26 and September 11, 2001, a group of speculators, identified by the American Securities and Exchange Commission as Israeli citizens, sold "short" a list of 38 stocks that could reasonably be expected to fall in value as a result of the pending attacks. These speculators operated out of the Toronto, Canada and Frankfurt, Germany, stock exchanges and their profits were specifically stated to be "in the millions of dollars.""

Saladin, it's like the stolen Elvis shirt that is too hot to fence. It sounded like a good idea at the time to them but then they realized collecting would expose too much.

Saladin,

Nothing new for intel-types to raise funds by playing with the market on insider knowledge. One of Tom Clancy's book I just read (I forget the title, but the sons of Jack Ryan and some cousins are featured) puts a Ultra-Secret Black Ops program in the middle of FBI CIA and NSA communication, playing the market according to secure communications intercepts...

I'm sure there's not just a few in EVERY service making untold millions from what they know is not only likely but CERTAIN to happen.

-T

James, I read that article awhile back. No one dares say anything about that, you can't EVER question Israeli integrity!
Eyes, you are right. Amazing how they didn't think about that before they did it.

the blood on bush's hands. A picture is worth a thousand words

Saladin,

We'll be flexible. If the weather looks tough, we'll find something to do on a more southern route. Gonna be, like $500 in gas just to get back home, so we're gonna make it worthwhile!

"Cutting it Close" is what we seem to do best!

I heard an NPR report on the demise of huge areas of aspens due to overpopulation of elk. Sounds like a good reason to stock a freezer!

# 14 Alan..I have been calling in many radio shows for 6 years now. (Diane Rehm, Talk of the Nation, Ring of FIre I even try to get through to some of the right wing Christian shows and Limbaugh (tough to get through these shows).
I believe the american public needs to use whatever means to ask the questions, many jounalist are not asking.

I encourage others to do the same. I often change my name..Kathleen..Kat..kate.. Katy....anna (my middle name). I also move around a great deal when I call in, so that I can get through. I do stay in my neighborhood which is south eastern ohio. I am often from Trimble, Chauncey, Glouster, Kilvert.
What I have learned by calling in is that you can pose your respectfully asked question in a way to pave the path for the guest to address the issues that are not discussed. I have done this with David Corn and many, many others on numerous shows.

I have also been able to ask questions of many many military advisors and policy advisors and so many more that I do not agree with, folks like Richard Perle, Frum Michael Ledeen. I know now that I have gotten on over 150 times in the last 5 years. C-Span is also worth calling into, there are 90 million viewers and a great deal can be learned and asked by calling in.
They are also willing to consider your suggesstions for shows.

With Scott Ritter the other day on Diane Rehm I was trying to give him the opportunity to address what he has written about. That these same folks(that brought us the invasion of Iraq..the WHIG AND THE OSP) are continuing to lay out reasons for military action in Iran and Syria.

As you heard I also tried to get the information out there that many are unaware of. That the OSP and the WHIG have yet to be thoroughly investigated. That if Fitagerald's investigation does not include the folks who brought us the war or the NIger document. That it is critical that PHASE I OF THE SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE BE IMPLEMENTED..NOW NOT LATER. Scott did not believe Phase I will take place ...but I am not giving up.

I firmly beleive we should use whatever means possible to hold these folks accountable, and in the process further our own understanding of these complicated issues, and pressure our representatives, and the media to do their jobs

I ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO CALL RADIO PROGRAMS..THEY ARE A GREAT WAY TO GET INFORMATION OUT THAT YOU WOULD ASSUME THE PUBLIC IS AWARE OF...AND ARE NOT

CALL EARLY ON IN THE PROGRAM.. RESEARCH THE TOPIC THOROUGHLY...SO THAT YOUR QUESTION HITS THE NAIL ON THE HEAD....BE RESPECTFUL AND CLEAR. SOME OF THE SCREENERS HAVE AGENDA'S SO BE AWARE OF THAT. POSE YOUR QUESTION IN A CLEAR WAY, CHANGE IT ON THE AIR IF YOU THINK THEY WILL NOT LET YOU THROUGH WITH WHAT YOU REALLY WANT TO ASK..I GET THROUGH ON AT LEAST 3 PROGRAMS A WEEK.

I REALLY BELIEVE IT IS AN EFFECTIVE WAY TO ASK THE QUESTIONS...THAT MANY ARE NOT ASKING.

hey capt,
#73 2 funnyy! Snorted coffee thru my nose! Where do you find this stuff? Love it!

Haji, Years ago, my son had a goat for a 4H project. That billy was into everything. He had cat-tails stuck to him when he went munching around the sewer lagoon and came out looking like Swamp Thing. Tooo funny.

Gotta run, keep the good posts coming.

Later,
th

Found a summary of the argument that Fitzgerald's scope is as large as he decides that it is and that Comey tried to establish his role such that he could not be fired here.

#20 Jeanie..If WHIG and the OSP have not been part of this investigation (I still have my fingers crossed). It is critical that we push and demand that our representatives and the media ( who have been negligent about this topic) seriously address this issue. Although some of us have been hammering away on this for 2 and a half years. We need to keep it up.
PHASE I OF THE SENATE SELECTION ON INTELLIGENCE..CHAIRED BY REP. SENATOR PAT ROBERTS AND CO-CHAIRED BY DEM. SENATOR ROCKERFELLER (WHO VERY MUCH WANTS PHASE I BEGIN).

# 41 Jeanie responding to Astroboy. "The truth will come out." We can not wait for the history of these events to be written about. the truth is out now.

The same group of radicals that brought us the invasion of Iraq, started immediately laying the ground work for military action in Iran and Syria. They continue to be busy (JOhn Bolton at the UN) "securing the realm".

It is critical that they be held accoutable for their crimes against humanity now.

Just an example of how skewed you are being Mr. Corn,
"By Rove's own admission--or that of his attorney--Rove did pass classified information (Valerie Wilson's employment status at the CIA was classified) to at least two reporters (Cooper and Novak)."
Identifying that someone works at the CIA is not a crime nor is it classified. Remember the LAW, not the rhetoric. If someone "knowingly" identifies a "covert" CIA agents identity that is the crime. The fact that someone works "over at the CIA" is not since you can get a partial list of employees through a FOA request.
Much of the rest of your article contains similar misleading statements. Perhaps if you stuck with actual "facts" instead of inuendo and rhetoric you might be taken more serious.

Yeah, J.Webb,

Like the "law" has anything to do with the slime and lies spewing forth from these bastards. It is a most dispicable thing to infer that just because something is of questionable legal standing, it should be ignored.

-t

#55 Micki..your response.."yes, many of us-based on what was know 2 years ago were skeptical-but, whether we admit it or not, we did not know everthing".

Micki we will never know everything. What many of us did know not "two" years ago but "three" years ago. Some knew the storms were gathering far earlier, knowing clearly who Bush Jr's "base" was and still is. Knowing that this same cast of characters had slid from Reagan's administration into Bush Sr. into his sons administration, they had business to finish.

Many folks three (not two) years ago were not just "skeptical" they were OUTRAGED based on what we were hearing from..Madeline Albright, General Swarzkopf, Mr. El Baradei, cia analyst, Scott Ritter etc.etc. So many of these individauls did everything they could to alert the public to the truth or at the very least what they suspected.
.
I know you remember (even though mainstream media did not let the world see) In October 2002, (three years ago) tens of thosands of mainstream americans (I audio taped over 400 people at that march, many thought 50% of the crowd was over 40), and not not so mainstream marchedin Washington D.C. attempting to pre-empt this illegal war. WWII, Korean, Vietnam Vets, families pushing their young children in strollers, families pushing their grand parents in wheelchairs, students, soccer moms, and a few people with black hoods over their heads, etc.etc.

Now guess who you saw on the evening news, the few people with the black hoods over their heads. Many in the (not all) media failed the public miserably before the war. What Bob Woodward referred to as "group think", (what a lame excuse Bob woodward... Mr. Watergate, what a lame excuse.)

Before the war youmust know that millions of people wrote letters, sent e-mails, went to see their reps, marched, protested, and got arrested and went to jail, based on not our skepticism..we marched based on what we were all ready being told by a list of qualified analyst and experts who had absolutely nothing to gain or lose by telling us what they knew.

Micki I am sorry I know we are on the same side of this issue. But I am so tired of hearing in the media business, from some citizens, and from people within the Bush administration..."OH IF ONLY WE KNEW THEN WHAT THEY KNOW NOW"....THIS IS COMPLETE AND ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT....THERE IS NO OTHER WORD FOR IT....BULLSHIT..

EXCUSE ME BUT I JUST NEED TO VENT....I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON HEALTH AND ENVIROMENTAL ISSUES FOR OVER 30 YEARS AND LOOK WHERE THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS GONE..I AM 53 DO I WANT TO KEEP WORKING ON THESE ISSUES WHEN THEY HAVE ATTEMPTED TO UNDUE SO SO MANY PEOPLES WORK. CHRIST ALMIGHTY WE HAVE 40 MILLION PEOPLE WITHOUT HEALTH CARE, OUR LIFESTYLES ENDANGER PEOPLES LIVES AROUND THE WORLD. MILLIONS OF AMERICANS JUST DO NOT SEEM TO CARE. O.K. I FEEL A LITTLE DISCOURAGED.

THIS INVESTIGATION THAT PATRICK FITZGERALD HAS BEEN CONDUCTING SEEMS AT THIS POINT THE ONLY "HOPE" TO PULL THIS COUNTRY BACK FROM THE CLIFF. THE CLIFF THAT MANY AROUND THE WORLD, I AM SURE HOPE WE JUMP OFF OF, ESPECIALLY, ECONOMICALLY .

Sorry back to your earlier statement when you said ,"but whether we admit it or not, we did not know everything". Of course we didn't..but we sure knew enough.

HOw could a 53 year old soccer mom in southern Ohio, by listening to BBc and Npr before the war, have heard all of these experts forewarn of exactly where we find ourselves..in a QUAGMIRE IN IRAQ. I am so pissed off about this..I am so pissed off that people have died because of what my govenment has done...LIED... I am so pissed off I would like to kick our representatives "collective asses" if I could.

Instead of attempting to kick their "collective asses"... I continue to respond in a civilized manner by writing, e-mailing, marching, along with millions of people around the world, who can still empathize with others.

I do believe as you stated that our representatives were more than likely handed more "hogwash" than us. When I was watching the John Bolton hearings on C-span. I heard Senator's Kerry, Voinovich, Chafee, Kennedy make statements about some of the false intelligence. Senator Chaffee referred to some of this false "hogwash" with steam coming out of his ears and eyes flashing. He caught himself before he spilled too many beans, but it was obvious he was pissed.

Kathleen - BRAVO !!!

I too, find it incomprehensible the throngs of people deluded into believing in their disbelief concerning the direction this adminstration has been taking us - from DAY ONE.

At the very beginning, I was screaming from the rooftops - and until more recently - was precieved as a conspiracy theorist, a paranoid, and a ultra-leftwing propagandist. And this was coming from my comrades.

And so, the chickens are coming home to roost and my comrades have a bit of egg on their face.

Has anyone read this yet? SIMPLY AMAZING!!!!

Let This Leak Go

By Richard Cohen

The best thing Patrick Fitzgerald could do for his country is get out of Washington, return to Chicago and prosecute some real criminals.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/3614

Be patient everyone, the Dems are being accused of not making enough noise over the Rove, Delay, Frist, and shrub stories. The above mentioned slugs think they are digging foxholes for their defense. If we just wait awhile and let them do the work, all we will have to do is fill in their graves.

Hey fellow libs.

Bush didn't pick Roberts and Miers to overturn Roe vs Wade.

He picked them because he knew that when he was indicted he would have five sure votes on the Supreme Court to keep him out of jail.

I have just one question, (as discussed here many times): "Why is Carl Rove still on the job. More inportantly why the president's lead advisor, who has proven to be decietful regarding matters of the nation's highest security matters, still have a major role in the control of our country?"

Why

We have to be committed to finding the truth, and not let other matters of national and world interest distract this very important issue.

When this Adminstration starts facing flack, we have a TERROR ALLERT......1-3 days later.

Who knew?

That two recently were busted as bogus is a known thing. What isn't so much known as who the perps were.

From what I hear and read the big Kahoona at the Coast guard emailed warnings to family; who in turn emailed friends.

When this leaked, NYC showed it's teeth. Three days later.

The Baltimore debacle was know for two weeks prior, action once again taken DUE to leaks.

Anyone feel more Secure yet?

Homland Security my ass, these leaks generated there.

Homeland Security is an oxymoron of Epic perportions.

Chaney and his ilk single mindedly dismantled our intel services.

Outing one agent, is the tip of a rather daunting iceberg.

We fast approach Orwellian. GOD help us all.

Just like the Osama relatives flying away when the rest of us had to stay where we were, was a small hint about how the rich get their info way up front.

We sent Martha to jail for this.

What shall we do to BUSH & company? Matching ankle bracelets? Dior could whip something up with a presidental icon. Would get big bucks on Ebay.

NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL GOOD MEN TO COME TO THE AID OF THEIR PARTY.

nuff said.

When this Adminstration starts facing flack, we have a TERROR ALLERT......1-3 days later.

Who knew?

That two recently were busted as bogus is a known thing. What isn't so much known as who the perps were.

From what I hear and read the big Kahoona at the Coast guard emailed warnings to family; who in turn emailed friends.

When this leaked, NYC showed it's teeth. Three days later.

The Baltimore debacle was know for two weeks prior, action once again taken DUE to leaks.

Anyone feel more Secure yet?

Homland Security my ass, these leaks generated there.

Homeland Security is an oxymoron of Epic perportions.

Chaney and his ilk single mindedly dismantled our intel services.

Outing one agent, is the tip of a rather daunting iceberg.

We fast approach Orwellian. GOD help us all.

Just like the Osama relatives flying away when the rest of us had to stay where we were, was a small hint about how the rich get their info way up front.

We sent Martha to jail for this.

What shall we do to BUSH & company? Matching ankle bracelets? Dior could whip something up with a presidental icon. Would get big bucks on Ebay.

NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL GOOD MEN TO COME TO THE AID OF THEIR PARTY.

nuff said.

What is up with all the double posts?

asshole