WAS THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION AND THE PRESS LYING IN 1998, 1999, AND 2000 ABOUT IRAQ HAVING WMDS!?!?!?!?
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It Wasn't Just Miller's Story

By Robert Kagan

Tuesday, October 25, 2005; Page A21

The Judith Miller-Valerie Plame-Scooter Libby imbroglio is being reduced to a simple narrative about the origins of the Iraq war. Miller, the story goes, was an anti-Saddam Hussein, weapons-of-mass-destruction-hunting zealot and was either an eager participant or an unwitting dupe in a campaign by Bush administration officials and Iraqi exiles to justify the invasion. The New York Times now characterizes the affair as "just one skirmish in the continuing battle over the Bush administration's justification for the war in Iraq." Miller may be "best known for her role in a series of Times articles in 2002 and 2003 that strongly suggested Saddam Hussein already had or was acquiring an arsenal of weapons of mass destruction." According to the Times's critique, she credulously reported information passed on by "a circle of Iraqi informants, defectors and exiles bent on 'regime change' in Iraq," which was then "eagerly confirmed by United States officials convinced of the need to intervene in Iraq." Many critics outside the Times suggest that Miller's eagerness to publish the Bush administration's line was the primary reason Americans went to war. The Times itself is edging closer to this version of events.

There is a big problem with this simple narrative. It is that the Times, along with The Post and other news organizations, ran many alarming stories about Iraq's weapons programs before the election of George W. Bush. A quick search through the Times archives before 2001 produces such headlines as "Iraq Has Network of Outside Help on Arms, Experts Say"(November 1998), "U.S. Says Iraq Aided Production of Chemical Weapons in Sudan"(August 1998), "Iraq Suspected of Secret Germ War Effort" (February 2000), "Signs of Iraqi Arms Buildup Bedevil U.S. Administration" (February 2000), "Flight Tests Show Iraq Has Resumed a Missile Program" (July 2000). (A somewhat shorter list can be compiled from The Post's archives, including a September 1998 headline: "Iraqi Work Toward A-Bomb Reported.") The Times stories were written by Barbara Crossette, Tim Weiner and Steven Lee Myers; Miller shared a byline on one.

Many such stories appeared before and after the Clinton administration bombed Iraq for four days in late 1998 in what it insisted was an effort to degrade Iraqi weapons programs. Philip Shenon reported official concerns that Iraq would be "capable within months -- and possibly just weeks or days -- of threatening its neighbors with an arsenal of chemical, biological and even nuclear weapons." He reported that Iraq was thought to be "still hiding tons of nerve gas" and was "seeking to obtain uranium from a rogue nation or terrorist groups to complete as many as four nuclear warheads." Tim Weiner and Steven Erlanger reported that Hussein was closer than ever "to what he wants most: keeping a secret cache of biological and chemical weapons." "To maintain his chemical and biological weapons -- and the ability to build more," they reported, Hussein had sacrificed over $120 billion in oil revenue and "devoted his intelligence service to an endless game of cat and mouse to hide his suspected weapons caches from United Nations inspections."

In 1999 Weiner reported that "Iraq's chances of rebuilding a secret arsenal look good." Hussein was "scouring the world for tools to build new weapons." He might "be as close to building a nuclear weapon -- perhaps closer -- than he was in 1991." In 2000 Myers reported that Iraq had rebuilt 12 "missile factories or industrial sites" thought to be "involved in Iraq's efforts to produce weapons of mass destruction" and had "continued its pursuit of biological and chemical weapons."

The Times's sources were "administration officials," "intelligence officials," "U.N. weapons inspectors" and "international analysts." The "administration officials" were, of course, Clinton officials. A number of stories were based not on off-the-record conversations but on public statements and documentation by U.N. inspectors.

From 1998 through 2000, the Times editorial page warned that "without further outside intervention, Iraq should be able to rebuild weapons and missile plants within a year" and that "future military attacks may be required to diminish the arsenal again." Otherwise, Iraq could "restore its ability to deliver biological and chemical weapons against potential targets in the Middle East." "The world," it said, "cannot leave Mr. Hussein free to manufacture horrific germs and nerve gases and use them to terrorize neighboring countries."

Times editorials insisted the danger from Iraq was imminent. When the Clinton administration attempted to negotiate, they warned against letting "diplomacy drift into dangerous delay. Even a few more weeks free of inspections might allow Mr. Hussein to revive construction of a biological, chemical or nuclear weapon." They also argued that it was "hard to negotiate with a tyrant who has no intention of honoring his commitments and who sees nuclear, chemical and biological weapons as his country's salvation." "As Washington contemplates an extended war against terrorism," a Times editorial insisted, "it cannot give in to a man who specializes in the unthinkable."

Another Times editorial warned that containment of Hussein was eroding. "The Security Council is wobbly, with Russia and France eager to ease inspections and sanctions." Any approach "that depends on Security Council unity is destined to be weak." "Mr. [Kofi] Annan's resolve seems in doubt." When Hans Blix was appointed to head the U.N. inspectors, the editors criticized him for "a decade-long failure to detect Iraq's secret nuclear weapons program before the gulf war" and for a "tendency to credit official assurances from rulers like Mr. Hussein." His selection was "a disturbing sign that the international community lacks the determination to rebuild an effective arms inspection system." The "further the world gets from the gulf war, the more it seems willing to let Mr. Hussein revive his deadly weapons projects." Even "[m]any Americans question the need to maintain pressure on Baghdad and would oppose the use of force. But the threat is too great to give ground to Mr. Hussein. The cost to the world and to the United States of dealing with a belligerent Iraq armed with biological weapons would be far greater than the cost of preventing Baghdad from rearming."

The Times was not alone, of course. On Jan. 29, 2001, The Post editorialized that "of all the booby traps left behind by the Clinton administration, none is more dangerous -- or more urgent -- than the situation in Iraq. Over the last year, Mr. Clinton and his team quietly avoided dealing with, or calling attention to, the almost complete unraveling of a decade's efforts to isolate the regime of Saddam Hussein and prevent it from rebuilding its weapons of mass destruction. That leaves President Bush to confront a dismaying panorama in the Persian Gulf," including "intelligence photos that show the reconstruction of factories long suspected of producing chemical and biological weapons."

This was the consensus before Bush took office, before Scooter Libby assumed his post and before Judith Miller did most of the reporting for which she is now, uniquely, criticized. It was based on reporting by a large of number of journalists who in turn based their stories on the judgments of international intelligence analysts, Clinton officials and weapons inspectors. As we wage what the Times now calls "the continuing battle over the Bush administration's justification for the war in Iraq," we will have to grapple with the stubborn fact that the underlying rationale for the war was already in place when this administration arrived.

Wait A Minute!?!? Wasn't Clinton in office BEFORE Bush??? Damn, everyone calls Bush a Doofus, but he must be brilliant if he could LIE about intelligence that was THERE BEFORE HE TOOK OFFICE!!!!

And you see one of the reasons why "Bush Lied" didn't work for you too well, now did it??

Senator Hutchison! Senator Hutchison! (reporters madly waving hands in air at press conference)

Senator, can you tell us how, exactly, your words were "misconstrued?"

Heehee. These freaks are shameless, absolutely shameless.

I don't think the White House will dare try to pin this on Tenet, though, David. I suspect he's already on the verge of turning on Bush and writing his $4.5 million tell-all. Playing the Plame game with him might just be the final straw.

David,

I believe you were the first to out Valerie as being undercover. How did you learn of it?

Perhaps it was one of her neighbors? Or Mr. Wilson?

Wouldn't the Wilson's be in legal trouble if they outed themselves?

Murad, Valermie Plame was so covert, that infact, she was on the cover of Vanity Fair a few months after she was supposedly outed!! I would think someone who just got their cover blown would be trying to distance herself from the public eye.

Tim L and murad. you silly hacks.

There weren't weapons inspectors on the ground in 1998. Clinton wasn't saying 40 minutes to a mushroom cloud, and 500 tons of chemical weapons.

Bush never believed there were weapons either.

Just think about how the war started. Bush gave an ultimatum to Sadam and his sons to leave Iraq if war was to be diverted. His demand wasn't turn over the weapons, or have fair elections, or give us the terrorist. It was a personal brawl that our dear leader wanted to have. He's a putz, everyone knows it. Even you 2 know

500,000 tons of chemical weapons.

500,000 tons of neocon bullshit.

Q=what'S the difference?

A=2000 dead US soldiers

another online poll on AOL...

Which has most affected Bush's popularity?
Iraq war 92%
CIA leak 4%
Miers nomination 4%
Total Votes: 221,288

Which of these issues concerns you most?
Iraq war 83%
CIA leak 9%
Miers nomination 8%
Total Votes: 221,305

How would you characterize this year for Bush?
A major failure 72%
A minor success 12%
A minor failure 8%
A major success 8%
Total Votes: 228,163

How do you predict you'll characterize his final three years in office?
A major failure 70%
A major success 15%
A minor success 10%
A minor failure 5%
Total Votes: 100,909

Do you think the public is underestimating Bush?
No 73%
Yes 27%
Total Votes: 101,123

Saddam was history because of his history. The policy of replacing Saddam was a Clinton policy, supported and encouraged by the Congress. Stockpiles of WMD were not indicative of Saddam's ruthlessness; His history of building and using WMD WERE indicative.

Murad

Of course it was indicative. After all we did push Sadam into the war with Iran. We did supply him with weapons. Then the Mayberry Machiaveli crew that was indicative of Reagan's admin (same as Bush's) began selling weapons to Iran to fund another false war. Isn't it indicative of every country to stockpile weapons? Isn't that what madmen do? Just ask your BushGod how "indicative" it is of us to pull out of international treaties so we can build bunkerbustin nukes.

Tim L. and Murad,
C'mon guys, the gig is up. Y'all really need to quit tryin' to defend this idiot. Take every article you listed, and all the excuses you think they provide, and toss 'em where they belong. It doesn't matter what Clinton thought (or what you think he thought) because he didn't believe it enough to INVADE, now did he? Knowing Clinton, he was probably working both sides of the aisle on that, for a little 'common ground' and 'bi-partisanship', against a tyrant. Not a big leap, there. 'Course he was our tyrant, but nevermind that. The deal is tho... he wasn't PNAC, so he never even thought of making invasion plans. Have you googled PNAC yet? But fk that, just listen to anything Scott Ritter says, at any time before or after Bush's War, and you'll hear the TRUTH. Yes, he cuts down Clinton alot too, but he reserves a special place for Doofus-in-Chief. Scott Ritter Scott Ritter Scott Ritter (that's your guys tactics... keep repeating till it soaks in, so I'll try it with you two) Oh, and google Scott Ritter and listen to at least one of the hits. *gotcha again with the repeating thing haha

Alan,

How many tons of nuclear weapons do you think it would take to flatten NYC? How many tons of VX would it take to kill everybody attending an indoor football game? Saddam realized what Scott Ritter and the LEFT fail to see; he didn't need stockpiles of WMD to annihilate his enemies.

Lemme just throw one more thing at you two guys. Being there was no WMD's found, why aren't you mad at Doofus too, for wasting our military on a whim? "whim" is being waaaayyy too generous, but to make a point... He could've went for the sure-thing in N.Korea if WMD's was his real concern. Aren't you mad at him for possibly letting Iran slip into the "nukes club" while we were sidetracked? Ya think he might've been a little harder on Pakistan for selling the technology to any and all? Alot happened while we've been in the "mousetrap" he's put us in, stuck where we can't do a thing about it. You should be pissed. Syria might be slightly scared that we're coming, but I'm betting Iran aint, and certainly not N. Korea. Gosh, if it was just this one 'topic', but he's fk'd up EVERYTHING. Foreign/domestic/economic/environmental/science-medical... But Traitor-gate (I like that one best too Children of the Corn) and lies us into a war is what's on the 'radar' at the moment.
*wonder what intelligence from months ago will be brought up wednesday or thursday, as "urgent" and scare us all again... to of course change the subject for MSM. ugh!

"How many tons of nuclear weapons do you think it would take to flatten NYC? How many tons of VX would it take to kill everybody attending an indoor football game? Saddam realized what Scott Ritter and the LEFT fail to see; he didn't need stockpiles of WMD to annihilate his enemies."

I have no idea what your point is. *throws up hands*
Let's see, if you want to enrich uranium, you need TONS to process. Then of course, a delivery system that'll reach the target. Chemical or biological? Well, you need labs to make it, and I'm pretty sure they have a shelf-life, and again a delivery system. What the fk are you trying to say?? Saddam was going to kill mass numbers of us by hand?? He couldn't even get outta the box our 'no-fly' zone had him in. How the hell is he going to threaten America??

Speculation is easy.

Patience is not.

Fitz seems to be on the right track and with absolute bulldog persistance.

I say............wait and see.

What seems very clear to me though, is that the Bush Administration's wheels are coming off.

Best case; we will be dealing with the lamest of all ducks...........a sitting one.

If the Dems can't use this............screw them . Ill freeking start a new party, or better yet.......Corky will.

It aint about to be spun.

NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL GOOD MEN TO COME TO THE AID OF THEIR PARTY..

Food for thought.

C'mon, post another excuse, I'm going for the trifecta. I'll give ya one more shot of David's bandwidth (err, thanks Mr. Corn) before I "take ya off my Buddy List". *laughs*

Speculation is easy.

Patience is not.

Fitz seems to be on the right track and with absolute bulldog persistance.

I say............wait and see.

What seems very clear to me though, is that the Bush Administration's wheels are coming off.

Best case; we will be dealing with the lamest of all ducks...........a sitting one.

If the Dems can't use this............screw them . Ill freeking start a new party, or better yet.......Corky will.

It aint about to be spun.

NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL GOOD MEN TO COME TO THE AID OF THEIR PARTY..

Food for thought.

sorry about double posts.

Bro-Tex, I caught your post a couple threads back, at #77. Keep in touch so I know when you're coming down. "Scooters" out Telephone Rd a couple lights past the city/county line is good for me.
'Stros blew a buncha chances tonight, now they're scrooood.... down 3-0 in the W/S. I doubt any team has ever won 4 straight after being down by 3. *not amused look*

Alan,

From my point of view, stockpiles of WMD was never a reason for going into Iraq. For the reasons given in my previous post.

One nuclear bomb, disguised as a filing cabinet, and carried to the top of the Empire State Building could flatten NYC.

"One nuclear bomb, disguised as a filing cabinet, and carried to the top of the Empire State Building could flatten NYC."

Again, your point??? Is that your argument for why we should have invaded N. Korea?... cause Saddam DIDN'T HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

Mr. Corn must have pushed some buttons to get the trolls here. I like how they bring up Clinton and events of the last decade. Would it help convince the left to back Fitzgerald if he made some initial report, outlining what the evidence is and what he plans to pursue further? It would also serve as a test for Bush. If he follows through with his promise to take necessary action, he may gain back some lost respect, or "political capital".

Oh yeah, da Bushbots is back in action. Funny little critters.

Murad sez,
"From my point of view, stockpiles of WMD was never a reason for going into Iraq"

Too bad that wasn't Chimpy's rationale (which is kinda what counts). Chimpy's lies focused on WMD.

Then Murad wants us to honor the military the Grand Ol' Torturin' Party way:
* lie them into a war
* shift the lie from WMD to Democracy to creating a Muslim Theocracy (yeah, THAT'S EXACTLY what they signed up for)
* send them to war without properly arming them
* putting the NRA before the troops in the legislative process
* Kill veteran's families' benefits and Veteran's health benefits
* Encourage them to mistreat the enemy, never mind the uniform code of military justice (then leave them hanging while the Pentagon snickers up their sleeves)
* Destroy the ability of the Military to recruit more soldiers to upgrade the Army.

Yeah, great plan.

The military is soooo thrilled with the Grand Ol' Torturin' Party that the Reds can't get any Iraqi vets to run for Congress. The Fighting Dems know who REALLY honors the Military. DAmned liberals signing up to defend their country and realizing it was all a lie. Why do they hate America, murad?

Tmmiee! Dude, when are you gonna tell us about John Bolton's stooges in WINPAC lying us into the war? Only one part of the CIA thought that Saddam still had weapons after Chimpy took office. Read the Senate Whitewash Report. WINPAC handed Bolton the lies. Who hired Bolton to LIE? Yes, Chimpy and President Cheney. They like liars. So do the Republicans in congress.

Why did the Clinton Administration insist that Saddam had WMD? Not to force the US into war. How else could they reasonably expect the UN and the rest of the world to continue to contain Saddam if Saddam was completely disarmed? They HAD to press the WMD issue to continue the inspections and keep the Iraqis contained as those in the White House admitted he was.

They may have been lying the UN into inspecting Iraq; but they weren't try to lie us into a war. Ritter is right. Chimpy lied. Pelosi's right, Chimpy wanted to go to war in the worst possible way and he did.

TImmiee sez,
"Murad, Valermie (sic) Plame was so covert, that infact, she was on the cover of Vanity Fair a few months after she was supposedly outed!!"

Why would an outed agent need to hide? Their identity is blown. The whole world knows it.

"I would think someone who just got ...."

This is Timmiees version of "if I only had a brain . . . "

Huh-larry-us.

So, murad, Timmiee, how many indictments? 2? 7? What about Rovie? Or are you guys defending the Traitors? Chimpy's daddy sez outing a CIA agent is treason. (Gasp) And the CIA sez Plame was a covert agent. ("Harlow said that after Novak's call, he checked Plame's status and confirmed that she was an undercover operative. He said he called Novak back to repeat that the story Novak had related to him was wrong and that Plame's name should not be used. But he did not tell Novak directly that she was undercover because that was classified.")

But don't worry about Chimpy operating without Rove as his brain. He's done just fine without a brain all these years. As have all you Bushbots.... LOL

Mr. David Corn,

I hear you on AAR, I see your Nation blog and the Corn blog is linked all over the place and many clear thinking people chatting it up about your work! All but the most blind pro-Bush ideologues enjoy every word you put to print.

Too Cool for school!

Thanks for all of your work.

Kirk

murad said:

THE AL QAEDA PROPAGANDA MACHINE IS ALIVE AND WELL AND THE CORNIES ON THIS BLOG ARE VERY WILLING TO CARRY IT AS HONEST REPORTING - IT WILL BELIEVE THE TERRORIST THUGS OVER THE US MILITARY ON ANY GIVEN DAY! BUT NOW IT CRIES FOR THE DEAD SERVICEMEN - PHONEY DISGUSTING POLITICAL CRAP.

murad, why don't you give an example of what you believe to be an honest report of the war - that shouldn't be hard for you since you told us once that you "work for the pentagon, and were late for your job protecting us all" -

murad also said:

One nuclear bomb, disguised as a filing cabinet, and carried to the top of the Empire State Building could flatten NYC.

ya, maybe if marvin bush was in charge of security for the empire state building, as he was for the WTC -

War Critic Sets Her Sights on Mrs. Clinton

By RAYMOND HERNANDEZ
Published: October 26, 2005

Cindy Sheehan, who has crusaded nationally against the war in Iraq since her son was killed there, called on antiwar activists yesterday not to support Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, who is seeking re-election next year. "I believe that any candidate who supports the war should not receive our support," Ms. Sheehan told The Associated Press in an interview. "It doesn't matter if they're Senator Clinton or whoever."

Though Ms. Sheehan has criticized Mrs. Clinton's position on the war in the past, this is the first time she has urged people to withhold support from the senator.

Senator Clinton voted to authorize the president to wage war in Iraq, but she has been critical of the way his administration has conducted the war. Still, she has not called for either a withdrawal of American troops or a timetable for their withdrawal. Mrs. Clinton's office declined to comment on Ms. Sheehan's remarks.

Ms. Sheehan made headlines over the summer when she camped outside President Bush's vacation home in Crawford, Tex., to demonstrate her opposition to the war.

Since then, Ms. Sheehan, whose son Casey was killed in Iraq in 2004, has traveled around the country with a band of antiwar protesters, including other parents who lost their children in the war, relatives of soldiers overseas and veterans back from Iraq.

*****end of clip*****

I am not sure why Cindy should bother. The pro-war position looks as ridiculous on democrats as it does on trolls and regressives.

Notice the verbiage? "WAR CRITIC" as if anybody against the illegal and unwise, now proven to be built on a foundation of whole cloth, hobby war where thousands have died for an obvious lie, is just a "war critic?" Please. The MSM deserve to be shot by the same firing squad that should put the liars out of OUR misery.

The NYT cheerleading section has no credibility anyway. This is the SCLM we hear about so often? HA!

capt

All this last minute checking? Fitzgerald has to present this stuff to his grand jury. I'm sure all the questioning of neighbors and White House denizens is to answer questions raised by the jurors themselves. Since the last minute stuff focuses on Rove, I'm betting they're voting right now on the Rove indictments.

Accident Brings U.S. Toll in Iraq to 2,001

Wednesday October 26, 2005 2:16 PM

By THOMAS WAGNER

Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - A U.S. soldier died in a vehicle accident in southern Iraq, the U.S. military announced Wednesday, bringing the American military death toll to 2,001. The soldier died near Camp Bucca, a U.S. detention center, on Tuesday, the same day the U.S. death toll in Iraq reached 2,000.

Some Iraqis sympathized with U.S. forces over the somber milestone. But others noted that many more Iraqis had died in the conflict and said they hope the U.S. ``occupiers'' will soon go home.

*****end of clip*****

One more glorious death for the trolls to celebrate.

One more death for those that actually support the troops to morn.

How sad for the armchair generals, so much blood on their hands they cannot type straight.

2,001 for a lie. An unnecessary and obviously unwise and illegal military action. Set upon the Iraqi people for no good reason except that Bunnypants wanted to be a "wartime president" and there were no good targets in Afghanistan.

How many is enough? 2,002? 20,000?

Support the troops and Bush’≥ private army, bring them home.

Enough is enough.

Stop the insanity.

capt

"...built on a foundation of whole cloth,..."

what exactly is whole cloth? is that what they make false flags out of?

^^^^^^^^^^6

I'd like to point out that the bushwars in Iraq and Afghan and the phony war on terror as well as the unpatriot act were all results of the greatest false flag operation of all time 911u.org

Who is going to march today? What are your signs going to say?

Here is mine.

America
Bombs
Bullets
Bullshit

Bush LIED Bring the troops home now.

From - http://www.m-w.com

Main Entry: whole cloth
Function: noun
: pure fabrication -- usually used in the phrase out of whole cloth

capt

THE WIZARD OF BUBBLELAND
PART 3: How the US money market really works

Oct 27, 2005

By Henry C K Liu

In order to understand the systemic risk implications of the astronomical growth of the repo (repurchase agreement) market, it is necessary to have some basic knowledge of the dollar money market, of which the repo market has become a major component.

The telling information is that repos now chalk up an average daily trading volume of about US$5 trillion in the United States, accounting for half of the money supply ($9.97 trillion as of September). Conventional perception notwithstanding, the repo market is no longer as risk-free as presumed because the money-creating proceeds from repos are mostly channeled toward speculation that contributes to systemic risks. The risk of contagion, a term given to the process of distressed contracts dragging down healthy contracts in the same market as speculators throw good money after bad to try to stem the sudden tide of temporary losses, can be magnified by the widespread use of repos.

*****end of clip*****

I recommend this series. Henry C K Liu is able to make the "system" understandable. A little wordy but informative just the same.

capt

Follow the drugs: US shown the way

Oct 27, 2005

By Ramtanu Maitra

Drug traffickers loaded with Afghan opium and heroin have virtually overrun and pulverized internal security in Tajikistan, particularly since the Taliban came to power in 1996. As most of the Afghan drug output finds its way to European nations (in addition to Russia), it might be expected that the European Union, and the United States, would make concrete efforts to help secure the Afghanistan -Tajikistan border.

There is no dearth of lamentation by Western political leaders about how the opiates have endangered security and about the damage caused to the youth. But, so far, no plan to address the problem has been put forward.

After the Taliban were ousted from Kabul in late 2001, opium production skyrocketed again, breaking all-time production records in 2004. Hundreds of tons of Afghan heroin are now transported annually to Europe, corrupting the continent's systems further - and much of it passes through Tajikistan.

Afghanistan is estimated to produce 87% of the world's supply of opium (4,519 tons this season, down 2% from 2004), with nearly half of the country's US$4.5 billion economy coming from opium cultivation and trafficking.

*****end of clip*****

Here is the Bush legacy. A crime family that does not run drugs and the black market are not a real crime family after all.

Like they never thought about the drug trade? HA!

"breaking all-time production records in 2004"

See Bunnypants does not just break our great nations doctrine of defense, he is personally responsible for the record breaking production of heroin.

What a guy? I guess we could add every overdose and every death related to the use of his black tar?

He measures his success by a body count? Or is that just the trolls?

capt

The bushbots are the most pathetice creatures I've EVER seen! I guess they live in a cave and watch nothing but faux news all day long. How anyone could possibly spend one minute worrying about some tinpot dictator on the other side of the planet threatening the only country on said planet that has actually nuked someone, I will never know. Why don't you guys go back to your cave and fret over Iran's and Syria's WMD's. We could have a mushroom cloud any second!
James #25, HAHAHA! Idiots!

War By The Numbers

By DOUG THOMPSON
Oct 26, 2005, 07:54

Two thousand. Nice round number. Not-so-nice tragic one. The death toll for American military personnel in the Iraq war reached 2,000 this week.

Two thousand men and women died for their country in a war that two-thirds of the American people believe is wrong. They died in a war that we now know was based on manufactured intelligence and falsified claims.

They leave behind at least 3,293 surviving parents, 4,672 grandparents still alive, 5,912 brothers and sisters, 3,772 children and 193 grandchildren. Not to mention an unknown number of aunts, uncles, cousins and in-laws along with uncounted fiancés, girlfriends, boyfriends and just plain friends.

A study some years ago said an average young man or woman in this nation has direct contact with, and influence on, at least 1,894 people by the time they turn 21. That means some 3,668,000 who also feel the loss in a more personal way.

We must honor those who died in this war. There is no greater sacrifice that any man or woman can make than laying down their life for their country. But we cannot canonize the dead at the expense of a nation’s soul.

Sadly, the America that these men and women died for is not the America it once was. They died not in defense of their nation or freedom but for a political agenda built on deceit and dishonor. They died because George W. Bush decided to launch a war without just cause, without truth, justice or the American way.

Unfortunately, the failed war in Iraq is not the first time America went into battle under false pretenses. The lessons of Vietnam fell on deaf ears on Pennsylvania Avenue and on Capitol Hill where an unscrupulous President bamboozled a shell-shocked Congress into another war we cannot win fought on principles we cannot justify.

The war in Iraq cannot, and will not, be won. Like Vietnam, we will most likely leave behind a country devastated more by our own military than the enemy we claimed to fight, abandoning the country to postwar ravages that could surpass any horror they faced under the tyrannical rule of Saddam Hussein.

The military men and women who make it home will return to a nation divided by anger over being deceived by its own government – a level of anger not seen since Vietnam. They will come home to a country trying to recover economically from a war it could not afford, fought for reasons that did not exist.

Even worse, they will come home to a country that is less safe than the one they left because the real enemies of this nation had time to regroup while a cowboy President on a mission that not even God could understand diverted time, money and resources to a failed, irrational war in Iraq.

By the time the last American soldier leaves Iraq, the toll of those who didn’t come home alive will be much higher than the milestone of 2,000 reached this week. So will the number of parents, grandparents, brothers, sisters, wives, husbands, relatives, girlfriends, boyfriends who must face the sad, horrible truth that their loved ones died in vain.

*****end of clip*****

The ONLY way to be pro-troops is to be pro-peace.

Bring the troops home.

capt

An anonymous star was added to the wall between named stars that can be dated to deaths on February 5, 2003 and October 25, 2003. The anonymous star thus fits the timing of the Plame leak. Wayne Madsen, a reporter and former NSA employee, has claimed, CIA sources report that at least one anonymous star placed on the CIA's Wall of Honor at its Langley, Virginia headquarters is a clandestine agent who was executed in a hostile foreign nation as a direct result of the White House leak.

Now, there's no definitive way to know if that anonymous star has anything to do with PlameGate - but we do know that every judge and U.S. Appeals Court panel that has ever looked at Patrick Fitzgerald's evidence - when trying to compel Time reporter Matthew Cooper and Bush Administration Propagandist Miller mean New York Times reporter Judith Miller to testify - has ruled unanimously in Fitzgerald's favor.

Could this be the reason? That it wasn't just a case of the Bush Administration endangering the life of Valerie Plame and her associated assets - but that real - actual - damage was done. Assets were killed. People were killed.

And why? Because Valerie Plame's husband decided to be vocal about the flimsy evidence that was being sold the American people about the reasoning behind going to war with Iraq.

************

I'm wearin' all black today - goin' to the Federal Building - 5:30 this evening - still thinkin' 'bout the sign, but I'm leaning towards, "Chronic Militarism is a Treatable Disorder."

Capt. That is an excellent reason to keep the archaic drugs laws in place. You can't have a successful crime family without a profitable crime, now can you ?!

Capt.

I've been at that border crossing. Ai Hanoun (sp? I don't have my passport with me to look at the stamp.) There is a river with a barge that has a tractor motor which operates a winch that spins on a cable to ferry the barge back and forth across the border. It is (or was when I was there, 2002) known as the time machine, because to cross into Afghanistan is like going back to another era.

What must be recognized is that since the fall of the Soviet Union the Russian Guards on the Tajik side of the border live on what they can get in bribes, they don't get paid. I paid a bribe to bring humanitarian relief supplies across. They sleep in container cars. Anyone in that situation will allow the crossing of contraband, it is a matter of survival.

yelnats, referring to your query: numbers of dead and wounded are inaccurate because they are UNDER reported.

PlameGate, AIPAC
Probes Connect To
Nuke Black Market
CIA Sources - PlameGate, AIPAC Probes
Connect To Nuclear Black Market
By Wayne Madsen
10-25-5

Libby and Cheney links to global weapons smuggling cartel resulted in exposure of Brewster Jennings and Associates non official cover (NOC) network. CIA Leakgate also tied to AIPAC probe. CIA sources familiar with the Brewster Jennings and Associates NOC operation that worked for some ten years to counter the proliferation of nuclear weapons claim that the operation's cover was partially blown because of its success at removing Soviet era nuclear weaponry and materials such as high grade plutonium from the international weapons smuggling market.

Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby was once the lawyer for Marc Rich, the Swiss-based American fugitive who was pardoned by President Clinton and is linked to a number of Russian and Ukrainian organized crime figures who have exiled themselves to Israel to avoid prosecution.

Brewster Jennings and the CIA Directorate of Operations Counter Proliferation Division (CPD) had established a program to purchase a range of nuclear weapons components, including Inter-continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) parts, nuclear warhead nose cones, and high grade plutonium and uranium bomb cores from Russian sources who were also selling to members of Russian Mafia networks who were, in turn, selling to the A. Q. Khan network in Pakistan and other WMD smuggling operations.

Brewster Jennings and CIA's CPD involved in purchasing Soviet nuke material from black market -- pitting them against the Russian Mafia and Scooter Libby.

When the Mafia oligarchs discovered the CIA purchase program was driving up the prices of the Russian surplus nuclear materials making them unprofitable for organized crime, they used their connections inside the Bush White House and Pentagon to expose the operation to eliminate the chief American interlocutors and give themselves a lucrative virtual monopoly by removing their competition and driving up the resale price of the nuclear material even further. A CIA source said the Mafia established a nuclear "hedge fund" on the Russian nuclear materials. A CIA source confirmed that Libby and his former client Rich are connected to Russian Mafia figures involved in nuclear smuggling.

After the Mafia discovered the identities of key Russian and other players involved with the CIA WMD purchase program, some of them were executed gangland style.
------------
As I said before, this is about WAY more than outing one agent. That whole operation was a thorn in bushco's side, they had to take the whole thing out. The depths of this treason are bottemless.

Well Capt. I tried to read that article and it was mind numbingly boring, but it seems that we are screwed by the fed giving out money and keeping the interest rates low for so long. Oh well, nothing I can do about it and nothing anyone can do, the system is moving on it's own now, and any little trigger will send this economic train off the tracks, and just think if money suddenly became worthless would anyone go to work? Or would they try to survive anyway they can.

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to who controls the meth trade in Key West. We know the Hells Angels and others roll it out. But who brings it in, through the T-shirt shops? Hint: A "special ally", and I don't mean the Brits. ATS

IT'S ALL ABOUT LIES, LIARS, LYING BASTARDS AND TRAITOR-GATE...

Camilo Mejia is an Iraq combat veteran who served a year in prison for refusing to return to the war in Iraq.

He is also a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War. He said today: "The clock has stopped ticking for 2,000 Americans in Iraq, and once again there is a ... reason for people to pay closer attention to the human cost of a lie, but for how long this time? Should we only count by each thousand? Perhaps it's time for the American public to realize that each death counts, American, Iraqi, or otherwise.

Perhaps it's time for us to keep counting until the war stops. In all our idleness and complacency that's the least we owe to the families of those fallen for this lie; God knows their suffering never ends."

ATS, Don't know why you would speak in riddles, but methamphetamine is fairly easily manufactured, converted from cold medications, and is very decentralized in production.

There is a candlelight Vigil in MPLS St. Paul, MN tonight and I will be there with my family. PRO PEACE!
Anybody in the area -
7 PM Lake Street/ Marshall Avenue Bridge

We have meth labs all over this country. Why do you think they stopped selling sudafed?

I mean over the counter.

White Boots Marching in a Yellow Land
Phil Ochs

The pilots playing poker in the cockpit of the plane
The casualties are rising like the dropping of the rain
And a mountain of machinery will fall before a man
When you're white boots marching in a yellow land

It's written in the ashes of the village towns we burn
It's written in the empty bed of the fathers unreturned
And the chocolate in the childrens eyes will never understand
When you're white boots marching in a yellow land

Red blow the bugles of the dawn
The morning has arrived you must be gone
And the lost patrol chase their chartered souls
Like old whores following tired armies

Train them well, the men who will be fighting by your side
And never turn your back if the battle turns the tide
For the colours of a civil war are louder than commands
When you're white boots marching in a yellow land

Blow them from the forest and burn them from your sight
Tie their hands behind their backs and question through the night
But when the firing squad is ready they'll be spitting where they stand
At the white boots marching in a yellow land

Red blow the bugles of the dawn
The morning has arrived you must be gone
And the lost patrol chase their chartered souls
Like old whores following tired armies

The comic and the beauty queen are dancing on the stage
Raw recruits are lining up like coffins in a cage
We're fighting in a war we lost before the war began
We're the white boots marching in a yellow land

American Soldiers

2,243 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan for Bush’≥ evil lies.

I would love to see Bush and 20 other defendants hauled into the International Criminal Court for war crimes.

A mother wrote and said that her son has completed his second tour of duty in Iraq and he should not return for a third tour of duty. The fate of our nation rests with mothers and Patrick Fitzgerald.

Will Judas Miller's next job be at Fux News? Or The Washington Times? Just wondering...

One "option" on the table for her at the NYT is a severance package.

"and is very decentralized in production"

And there is a very organized effort that is both centralized and is a huge business, lots of money and not your local wigs.

As the government outlaws or restricts precursors the result is a black market. (and different methods)

The organized and unorganized crime components coexist and support the alternate economy of misery through all ways illegal.

You hear more about kitchen labs because those are the only ones being arrested. As is always the case, the ones not being arrested or operating under a facade of legitimacy that are the real concern.

Just sayin'

capt

It doesn't matter how bad the Republicans screw up, the American people just don't like you wacko nut jobs on the left and never will.

Ok, lets see if I get this straight. Yesterday I read an article about Wal-Mart's change of heart. They were now worried about ecology and employee benefits and wages. I rubbed my eyes when I read it.

Today?
Wal-Mart Memo Suggests Ways to Cut Employee Benefit Costs

By STEVEN GREENHOUSE
and MICHAEL BARBARO
An internal memo sent to Wal-Mart's board of directors proposes numerous ways to hold down spending on health care and other benefits while seeking to minimize damage to the retailer's reputation. Among the recommendations are hiring more part-time workers and discouraging unhealthy people from working at Wal-Mart.

In the memorandum, M. Susan Chambers, Wal-Mart's executive vice president for benefits, also recommends reducing 401(k) contributions and wooing younger, and presumably healthier, workers by offering education benefits. The memo voices concern that workers with seven years' seniority earn more than workers with one year's seniority, but are no more productive.

To discourage unhealthy job applicants, Ms. Chambers suggests that Wal-Mart arrange for "all jobs to include some physical activity (e.g., all cashiers do some cart-gathering)."

------------
Isn't this discrimination?

[T]he secret base for Coca-Cola is made by Stepan Chemical Company, of Northfield, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago, through their Maywood Chemical Division in New Jersey.

I once interviewed, on tape, a top official of Stepan, who admitted that cocaine was a by-product of their processing of coca leaves for the secret Coca-Cola base, They supply, he added, cocaine for the pharmaceutical trade.

*************

This is from Sherman Skolnick...he makes a lot of claims, read him with a pinch of salt, or whatever....

...but, how much cocaine does the legit pharmaceutical industry consume, compared to the amount of Coca-Cola produced?

Black Budgets

Please excuse the repeat of this post but it seems to fit well with the other posts.

I enjoy listening to George Noorey on Coast to Coast from 1:00 to 4:00 am. He had Catherine Austin Fitts on his program. She worked for bush I and Clinton. Her website is www.solar.com. She talked about the black budgets. I took down four pages of notes but I will try to condense them into my typing skills of picking and pecking.

Government corruption is rampant. There is no one to audit the books and $4 trillion cannot be accounted for. We are being manipulated by covert criminal organizations. The government corruption became big time with passage of the National Security Act in 1947 and the CIA Act in 1949. Money is going into these organizations but we do not know how it is being spent. There is no accountability. Legal and executive orders give people a license to steal. The Iran-Contra Fraud was approved at the HIGHEST LEVEL. Covert organizations are siphoning off billions of dollars that are not accountable to anyone.

America's rise to power is funded by drug money and organized crime money. Dirty money keeps America going. Stock markets would go down if we stopped this dirty money from propping up the stock markets. Executive orders in 1989 helped to siphon off the money with no accountability. People in government are involved in drug trafficking. Christian organizations take the dirty money and they shut up about the fraud. Are faith-based money given to have the Christian organizations to shut up? The CIA is involved in drug trafficking.

American money is moved to Asia and this money comes back to buy American land and resources. 9/11 slammed the door on the investigation of the $4 trillion that was lost or laundered. 9/11 made money for these covert criminal organizations. Muslim fundamentalists may have been a tool in 9/11 in order to stop the criminal investigation of laundered money.

Americans need to ask questions. The SEC knows who sold stocks short from 9/11 but they won’¥ let anyone know who sold their stocks short and made mega bucks from their transactions. Americans want their paycheck and not the truth. 9/11 was planned to cover up the illegal laundering of $4 trillion. The people who planned 9/11 were involved in the most successful piracy in American history.

Drug money and organized crime money are propping up the stock markets. Jobs and money are being shipped aboard. The middle class and our Constitution are being destroyed. Catastrophic events happen to stop the depression. Small numbers of people are profiting and our planet is being destroyed.

Where does evil come from? No one really knows why there is evil. We are prisoners of the system of corruption and fraud. The people who engage in evil don't care about people and they are demonic in nature. If you go along with the system, you won't be killed.

War and covert interventions have kept economies going. Corruption and fraud also keep our economies going. We have a consumer vote and not just a political vote. We have a very manipulated stock market. Alternative energies have been suppressed. Money is not being used to optimize our planet. We are destroying our planet. Popular support is important to change the system but corrupt officials win elections. America is the most powerful nation in the world and we are not cleaning up our act.

I was able to take notes from Catherine Austin Fitts' interview on the George Noorey show. The notes are from questions that callers asked Ms. Fitts. I did not write down the questions but only some of her answers. Ms. Fitts said that money is being siphoned from social security in order to destroy social security. 9/11 was an inside job. Globalists want global government, money, control, and population control. Ms. Fitts said that America and the world need a spiritual change where everyone is accepted and not deny the good things on our planet.

There is no money in the social security fund. Privatization of social security will destroy small businesses. There is too much money wasted in our present system. Drug money is being laundered by both parties. The rich are taking advantage of the middle class and the poor. Modern media has not helped the people by investigating and by giving us the truth about our government. Our economy is ripping off the average citizen. Americans are financially drained and now they are being drained emotionally and psychologically. Iraq is a very dangerous place for our soldiers because Iraq is very corrupt and we cannot receive the information that we need to make decisions.

The American government wants Americans to be stupid. Stupid people can be controlled. If you have an education and information, the people will have power. Our government wants to keep Americans powerless and stupid.

China is thinking of converting to the Euro. If China does convert to the Euro, our dollar will fall and interest rates will rise and we will have serious economy problems. It was publicized that Iraq was planning to convert to the Euro and that was one of the reasons why we attacked Iraq. In Gordon Thomasՠbook, ғeeds of FireӠhe says that China will have nuclear weapons parody with America in 2015. America can never permit this to happen. America desires to be the only superpower because she will be able to dictate what countries can and cannot do. Will America attack China in a preemptive war before 2015?

Gerald,

Catherine Austin Fitts is a very interesting figure. Her website is Solari.com or just click here.

Poll: Bush would lose an election if held this year

----------------
NOOOO Kidding!

Many of us anxiously await Patrick Fitzgerald's findings with hope that the U.S. Justice System is in working condition. Mr. Fitzgerald holds the key to any faith that remains in our democracy that the american public and others around the world may have in this system.

Holding those accountable for the Plame leak and hopefully those responsible for the faulty intelligence used to lead our nation into an illegal and catastrophic war, is critical.

One does not have to look very far to validate why some in the american public seem to be out of touch that a political Tidal wave is about to hit the the Bush administration.

I am in a Dayton Ohio library (visiting) looking over the Washington Post, USA Today, and the Dayton Daily News. There is barely a mention of the upcoming indictments in these papers. When one looks into the coverage a few years back by these same papers, they were filled with what they considered important information for the american public. Endless coverage about Clinton's lie about a blow job.

Is it any wonder why the american public is still out of touch most of the time. The majority of the media are still not doing their jobs. Informing (not entertaining the lowest common denominator)the public with accurate and well-balanced coverage of critical issues to individuals and our nation. The MSM continues to come up short.

What are other people reading in local papers about the Fitzgerald investigation???? short.

Gerald, a few years back a Professor of Economics at Ohio University told a group of us who were regularly meeting about the impending illegal invasion of Iraq. That Saddam Hussein was leaning towards operating the oil industry via the euro, and that this is was yet another reason for the invasion.

kathleen, I think that was the MAIN reason. Iran is preparing to do the same.

Coulter is right where she belongs as one of the Stepford bunnies at Fox.

It is time Americans stop aligning themselves to bipartisan agendas and to see the truth regardless of party affiliations. There are many question we should all be asking and demand answers? As of yesterday the death toll was 2012 dead not taking into consideration all those who have been mamed, psychologically traumatized or even have lost their lives after reaching stateside. I also find it sad that nothing will happen to Libby for being the one who most likely has fallen on the sword. He will end up with som cush job at Haliburtons when all is said and done. Why can't Americans begin to pay attention and stop waiting for people to educate them on what they should know or want to know. America is in big trouble and that is the bottom line. We have become complacent and expect the media to spoon feed us angles, solutions, and explanations for everything as we continue in our daily life naively existing until another catastrophic event occurs. Wake up America!

I saw you this morning on Cspan - I tried to get a call in.

You know, when you responded to the man caller from South Carolina, in your smug, I am better than you manner, you reminded me why I am not a democrat. So far as the dems are concerned, they know better for ALL of us. If our opinions originate in the South, well, it can only be hicks!!! opining.

You and the rest of your types don't fool most of the people that I know. Yes, of course, you had some very eloquest, measured, accurate, responses; however, do not insult OUR intelligence by including in your dialogue, "respected Replubicans. . . . " That right there is the KEY difference between dems and reps. Republicans don't scurry around to protect liars, spouse cheaters (uhm, wonder who - by the way HOW IN GOD'S NAME WAS CLINTON NOT CHARGED WITH SEXUAL HARRASMENT, AT HIS WORK PLACE NO LESS - LET'S BE REAL). But I digress. When your peeps disagree with our peeps, "you are making passioned arguements." When my peeps do it "they are kabals, out to destroy, blah, blah, blah," Wake up my fellow Americans. President Bush's White House COOPERATED FULLY, Libby resigned, Bush accepted, just as he said he would expect. All this other crap, is just that, crap. Nothing came of this, so they now have to make something of it. Does anyone remember what the Clinton White House did to the special prosecutor then!!!!! Clinton was the worse American president because he sold us out. Read everything on both sides. When I do this, clearing my mind to be fair, I always keep coming away with Dems are just not intellectually honest but boy do they think they're intelligent.

Hey there ripple,

Wonder what your Wonder Boy would have done if he had been in office during 9/11, uhm, let's think, oh I know, hopefully exactly the same thing, go after anyone and everyone, that at any time suggested he wanted to cause us harm and that THE ENTIRE WORLD believed had weapons -- don't your type ever wonder the opposite? If so many people believed, had proof, etc. where are those weapons. That's the question you should be aksing and should be making you very nervous. Oh, I forgot, that does fit your party line. My apologies rips.