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September 23, 2005Has FBI Failed in a Big Power-grab?Has the FBI failed in a Bush-blessed, attempted power-grab? That was the lead sentence in an article of mine posted yesterday at www.thenation.com. But somewhere along the line, that line was cut and did not appear as the kickoff sentence. Nevertheless, the article deals with a policy-wonkish subject that has not gotten the attention it deserves: the FBI trying to grab a power that would go far beyond what the Patriot Act permits. If you had any concern about the Patriot Act, then you ought to be worried about the Bureau's attempt to obtain what's known as administrative subpoena power. As the article notes, civil libertarians of the right and left fret about this. Read on. And let me note that research support for this article was provided by the Institute for Justice and Journalism at the USC Annenberg School for Communication, which awarded me a fellowship last year. The FBI Fails (For Now) to Grab Subpoena Powers With several key provisions of the controversial Patriot Act set to expire later this year, Congress has been working for months on legislation that would extend and perhaps restrict those provisions. Most of the debate has concerned whether the Patriot Act went too far and has focused on the measure's Section 215, which allows the FBI to obtain library records and other "tangible things" in a terrorism or national security investigation by obtaining a warrant from the super-secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) court. But the FBI, with the presumed approval of the White House, has been pushing for power that would go beyond that of the controversial Section 215. In particular, the bureau has wanted the new Patriot Act measure to award it the right to issue administrative subpoenas. With an administrative subpoena, an FBI agent could--without going to a court or a grand jury--demand that a person or institution hand over any record on another person or organization: financial papers, health records, library records, e-mails and more. The order would be subject to judicial review only if the recipient--say, an Internet service provider--opposed the order. Administrative subpoenas would give the FBI greater power than Section 215 and national security letters. (With a national security letter, the FBI can, without bothering a court, obtain a limited set of information--certain financial documents, credit reports and Internet-use records. But a federal court last year declared national security letters unconstitutional. The Bush Administration has filed an appeal.) Moreover, as Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies, notes, "The FBI wants this administrative subpoena power forever"--that is, with no sunset provision. Beating back the FBI's demand for this authority would be a victory for the civil liberties community. And so far, the FBI has been losing. Opposition to FBI administrative subpoenas has united civil libertarians of the left and right. Nancy Libin, staff counsel at the Center for Democracy and Technology, notes that administrative subpoena power is "really kind of scary. The FBI would have the right to approach any business or person and say, 'Hand over whatever we want,' and a gag order would be attached. You can't challenge the subpoena. You can't talk about it. If an FBI agent wants a grand jury subpoena, he has to go through a prosecutor. It's not just an agent issuing a subpoena. Administrative subpoenas would make Section 215 moot." Paul Rosenzweig, a senior legal fellow at the Heritage Foundation and a prominent champion of the original Patriot Act, says, "I don't like administrative subpoenas. Judges have to be involved. A law that permits the uninhibited exercise of executive authority is bad." And Suzanne Spalding, former assistant general counsel at the CIA, argues that "removing courts is a mistake." In its search for administrative subpoena authority, the FBI turned to the Senate Intelligence Committee. In May, as the committee was considering legislation to reauthorize parts of the Patriot Act, Valerie Caproni, the FBI's general counsel, testified before it, claiming that the bureau desperately needs administrative subpoenas for its terrorism investigations: "We cannot wait to disrupt terrorist acts or to prosecute terrorist crimes after they occur. To stay a step ahead of the terrorists, investigators need tools allowing them to obtain relevant information as quickly as possible." She noted that regulatory agencies that probe healthcare fraud and child abuse can issue administrative subpoenas. But as Democratic members of the Intelligence Committee pointed out in a subsequent report, Caproni, upon being questioned, "could not document significant past or current instances when national security investigations faltered or were hindered due to lack of an administrative subpoena authority." The Democrats also noted that the administrative subpoena power available to other agencies is far more limited than what the FBI has been seeking. And when the Democrats proposed providing administrative subpoena power to the FBI for "emergency use," Republicans on the committee, apparently fronting for the FBI, voted against it. Emergency authority was not good enough; the FBI wanted full and everyday use of this wide-ranging power. Why has the FBI been hellbent on administrative subpoena authority? Rosenzweig says he suspects it is a case of bureaucratic "gimme, gimme, gimme." Robert Litt, a former federal prosecutor and past senior Justice Department official, notes that the FBI "hates having to go through the Department of Justice to get information. But going to an assistant US Attorney to get a subpoena is hardly that burdensome." Litt says the FBI's current drive for administrative subpoena authority is part of a years-long effort to expand the bureau's power that predates September 11, 2001. After 9/11 the Bush Administration proposed antiterrorism legislation that included a provision that would allow the FBI to issue administrative subpoenas. But Congress resisted and stuck to the notion that the FBI's authority to obtain records ought to be subject to judicial review. Congress did relax pre-existing restrictions, giving birth to the infamous Section 215. "None of us who participated in drafting Section 215 thought it would become so controversial, given that we retained FISA court procedures," says Beryl Howell, who at the time was general counsel for the Democratic-controlled Senate Judiciary Committee. "Originally the FBI wanted administrative subpoenas so they would not have to go to court to get third-party records, so they could bypass courts and prosecutors. Section 215 was a disappointment for the FBI." The FBI lost the battle in 2001 but did not forget about the issue. In June the Republican-controlled Intelligence Committee, led by chairman Pat Roberts, approved Patriot Act legislation that granted the FBI administrative subpoena authority. Under this bill it would be a crime in some instances for the recipient of such a subpoena to tell anyone that he or she had received one. Democratic members of the committee complained that such a gag order "could prevent the recipient of an FBI administrative subpoena from exercising First Amendment rights to protest government action, including by bringing abuses to the attention of members of Congress or Inspectors General." By winning over the Senate Intelligence Committee, the FBI had only managed to clear a low hurdle. "The intelligence committees on the Hill are generally viewed as being held hostage by the agencies they oversee, but the judiciary committees are not," says one former senior Capitol Hill staffer. "Judiciary committee members tend to be more familiar with law enforcement and civil liberties issues and sometimes more skeptical of additional authority. It's par for the course for the FBI to go to the intelligence committees, which say yes, and then it's the judiciary committees' job to say no or to work out a compromise. Usually this happens behind closed doors, with staff aides on the different committees holding informal discussions. But not this year." As the Senate Intelligence Committee was doing the FBI's bidding, the House and Senate Judiciary Committees--which also have jurisdiction over the reauthorization of the Patriot Act--signaled that they were cool to idea of administrative subpoena authority. The Republican chairmen of the committees--Representative James Sensenbrenner Jr. and Senator Arlen Specter--both opposed the proposal. They were not swayed by the FBI argument that it has extensive powers to obtain evidence when conducting criminal investigations and should be able to do the same in terrorism and national security cases. "The problem," says Howell, "is that in a criminal investigation there are procedures built in to counterbalance any FBI overreaching. A subpoenaed party can complain to a judge. Grand jury investigations proceed under court supervision. These safety valves do not exist in national security investigations, which tend to be broader investigations than criminal investigations. That's why members of Congress--Republicans and Democrats--have been skeptical of granting the FBI this power." And as Kate Martin points out, if the FBI is investigating suspected terrorists as part of a criminal investigation, it can use all the available criminal tools. A Senate aide who worked on this matter adds, "Given all the concerns regarding Section 215 and the sensitivity of third-party records, people recognized that if you take judges out of the equation--which is what an administrative subpoena does--that would be a step back." Sensenbrenner, a conservative Republican, and Specter, a moderate Republican, ended up crafting different versions of the new Patriot Act legislation. The bill produced by Sensenbrenner's committee (and approved by the full House) preserved the controversial parts of the Patriot Act and extended these measures for ten years. The bill written by Specter's committee (and OK'd by the Senate) applied several new restrictions to these provisions and gave them four more years of life. But both pieces of legislation left out administrative subpoena authority. (The Senate Intelligence Committee's Patriot Act legislation was essentially shoved aside.) Next, the two measures will go to a House-Senate conference, where Specter, Sensenbrenner and other senators and representatives will attempt to produce a compromise bill acceptable to both houses. This might offer the FBI one more shot at obtaining administrative subpoena authority, but Congressional aides say it's unlikely the bureau can overcome opposition from the chairmen of the judiciary committees. But before the House approved its Patriot Act update, Representative Jeff Flake, a Republican, passed a little-noticed amendment that would bolster national security letters. This amendment, according to civil liberties advocates, could eventually become a backdoor for administrative subpoena authority. "The only difference between Flake's amendment and Roberts's administrative subpoena proposal," says Kate Martin, "is that Roberts would permit the seizure of every kind of record and thing, and the Flake amendment only involves those categories of records covered by the existing national security letters. If the Flake amendment gets passed in the final version of this legislation, the FBI will simply try to expand its coverage to everything else." While civil liberties advocates appear to have thwarted the FBI on outright administrative subpoena authority, the bureau has not declared this case closed. The latest tussle is just another round in a battle that is expected to continue. "It's hard to see stopping something bad as a win," says an aide for a Democratic senator who opposed the administrative subpoena proposal. "But we're going to have to come back again and again to keep stopping it." Indeed, in late July--after the House and Senate had produced versions of the Patriot Act legislation without administrative subpoena authority--FBI director Robert Mueller was still urging Congress to hand the FBI such power. "The FBI is always persistent," says Beryl Howell. "They don't give up." Posted by David Corn at September 23, 2005 10:17 PM | ||
Comments
All I hear from you liberals/leftists/socialists/communists is that Bush is bad, but you offer no alternative policies. As you should have learned from the 2004 election, hatred does not inspire people, and if you're going to criticize Bush, you better have an alternative plan.
I don't understand your fixation with getting Bush (!) he isn't running for re-election lol!
Posted by: Bush Is Our President at September 23, 2005 10:52 PM
I am sad to say that Sensenbrenner is my Representative. With Feingold and Kohl voting for Roberts, I feel my representation in Congress is failing all around me. While I feel more confident about Feingold and Kohl as a whole, Sensenbrenner is a lost cause to me.
This subpoena incident will not go away. We must change control in the House. I am going to do whatever I can to support the Democratic opponent of Sensenbrenner's the next time he runs.
Yes we need a revolution. No war is a good starting platform. We should add bring back civil liberties to the list.
Posted by: flan at September 23, 2005 10:54 PM
#1 - You are right on one point, we liberals need to concentrate on the Republicans as a whole instead of concentrating on Bush.
Posted by: flan at September 23, 2005 10:56 PM
All this power makes only one thing possible...abuse.
Posted by: Jeanne at September 23, 2005 11:34 PM
Anybody hear anything from Alan?
Posted by: Hajji at September 23, 2005 11:39 PM
Bush is drunk with power - or is he just drunk?
Posted by: flan at September 23, 2005 11:41 PM
Mr. David Corn,
The power grab in never going to stop under this WH. We will not pull out of Iraq. Things will get far worse before they get any better.
"The worst government is the most moral. One composed of cynics is often very tolerant and humane. But when fanatics are on top there is no limit to oppression." ~ H L Mencken
Thanks
Kirk
Posted by: capt at September 23, 2005 11:46 PM
David,
Post 911, there is a delicate balancing act going on between law enforcement and the tight to privacy. I, for one, am 100% against any government intrusion into a person's private matters. But the balancing act involves actually
pits two things the government should respect most, right to privacy & providing for the general welfare of the populace, against each other.
Let's say that I have a neighbor who announces to me one day that he is dissatisfied with the current administration and he intends to do something about it. When I inquire as to what he means, he claims that he knows how to make a certain type of bomb and intends to set one off to let the government know just how vulnerable we are to a terrorist attack. I would naturally tell my neighbor he is foolish to think such thoughts. I may even go a step further and tell him that not only would he ruin the lives of those who would be affected by his action, he would also ruin his life. Since I am no psychologist, I may want to inform the local authorities of my neighbor's intent, regardless of whether I thought him to be serious or not.
Now, the struggle between the right to privacy and the general welfare of the populace. There may be no way for certain to know that my neighbor intends to do what he told me he intended to do. The police or FBI only have my account of what my neighbor told me. Is this enough to act on or should the authorities jump through judicial hoops to find out whether my neighbor is serious or not. In the meantime, I have to live with the knowledge that my neighbor intends to do something with disasterous consequences, not knowing for certsin if he is serious or not.
I make this point to illustrate what occured to your media darling, Hush Rimbaugh. The prosecutor took the word of a cleaning lady and conducted an all out search.
Posted by: Tim H at September 23, 2005 11:50 PM
Bush and his merry band of morons are drunk with the delusion of power. The only power they have is to make our lives miserable. They will exercise that power because that is all they have. They can never take our sense of humor and they cannot reverse what is right and wrong. They decided long ago doing the right thing is not the same as winning. They decided winning is more important and therefore they lose. Balance will return to the universe, in time.
capt
Posted by: capt at September 23, 2005 11:54 PM
# 1 LOL yourself, asshole. You jerks fixated on Clinton when he was out of office -- and you're starting up again. You've never gotten over him.
___________________________________
You say:
"I don't understand your fixation with getting Bush (!) he isn't running for re-election lol!"
_________________________________________
You are right, however, we should NOT be focused on that loser, that failure, that embarrassment -- we should be focusing on the entire group of Repug Thugs. Thanks for reminding us.
Posted by: micki at September 24, 2005 12:06 AM
I think the rules we have in place make the prosecution put together a certain and substancial case before they take it to a judge. I think that some of the evidence that can be gathered with all of these new powers will in some cases be junk evidence. If I take out a book on fertilizer does that make me a terrorist? If I suddenly take an interest in Islamic religion do I become somebody to be watched? If there is no evidence that I am a threat to society is there any reason the FBI can just decide to investigate me? A judge can look at the fact that I have done nothing wrong and protect me from an abuse of power. Maybe the FBI wouldn't investigate me but they would investigate those vulnerable to harrassment. Like say immigrants from the middle east, blacks involved in hip hop movement, civil rights advocates, those in the peace movement, . It too easily, becomes somebodies uneasy feeling about a culture they are not comfortable with. I saw this happen in the '70' when I was in college.
They didn't like one of my professors. They'd come and harrass him. For what? Who knows.
Posted by: Jeanne at September 24, 2005 12:13 AM
Micki,
When I think of the neocons and Clinton I always think of that freak Starr. He always carried that big jug of coffee. He was soooooo impressed with himself. What a dick.
Posted by: Jeanne at September 24, 2005 12:17 AM
This is the kind of story that tells me that the FBI should not be given more power. Power is abuse.
The Disturbing Case of Abdul Amir Younes Hussein. This is the case of a CBS reporter in Iraq who sits in jail without charges, trial, lawyer being allowed to defend him.
Another case, this one in the US.
Palestinian activist Farouk Abdel-Muhti was released from jail Monday night (April 12 2004) nearly two years after he was detained by U.S. immigration officials. He was never charged with a crime. In a national exclusive, Democracy Now! speaks with Abdel-Muhti in his first interview as a free man. He discusses his release, his struggle for freedom and the conditions of his detention which included 8-months of 23-hour lockdown in solitary confinement. [Includes rush transcript]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prominent New York Palestinian activist Farouk Abdel-Muhti was released Thursday and returned home nearly two years after he was detained by U.S. immigration officals. He has never been charged with a crime.
A Pennsylvania federal judge last week ordered his release.
In April 2002, three New York police officers and an INS agent, all in civilian dress, came to Abdel-Muhti's Queens apartment without a warrant. They claimed they wanted to ask Abdel-Muhti some questions about September 11th. They said they believed there were weapons and explosives in the apartment. When Farouk's roommate, Bernard McFall refused to open the door, they threatened to break it down, entering without a warrant.
But Abdel-Muhti wasn't at home because he was at an early morning interview at Pacifica station WBAI-New York. He learned of the raid from his son, Tarek, and his roommate, Bernard McFall who works for the Environmental Protection Agency.
He was detained on April 26, 2002 and jailed in various facilities ever since, often in solitary confinement, subjected to extensive interrogation, and often been denied food. His supporters considered him to be a political prisoner. As a Palestinian who came to the U.S. four decades ago, Abdel-Muhti argued he is "stateless" and has no country to which he can be deported.
Abdel-Muhti later died from a heart attack. He was given poor medical treatment while in detentions for a heart condition.
Posted by: Jeanne at September 24, 2005 12:32 AM
The Patriot Act and libraries. I keep a list of all the books I check out of the library on my computer. Over a year ago I had a computer problem and lost maybe the last 5 books I entered. I asked one of my librarians if they could pull up the last couple books I checked out and they said they couldn't do that. When I asked her why, she just said they couldn't. I took it that she wasn't allowed to because certainly their computers are capable.
I said, "If John Ashcroft came in here you'd pull them up for him." That was another nail in the coffin of this government....when they can see my library records and I can't!
Posted by: Carol at September 24, 2005 12:54 AM
By the way, regarding the Department of Peace and Nonviolence, that would be a waste of money. It's redundant, too. We already have all the institutions we need. We just need the right people to run them. Shouldn't the State Department be in charge of peace? I don't think we need another "Department" of anything.
We also can't afford it.
Posted by: Carol at September 24, 2005 01:02 AM
Do some of you more radical posters understand that, with all of your "Bush is Hitler" nonsense, you sound just as silly as the conservatives pursuing Bill Clinton? And why the obsession with Bush? Do you understand that, for better or worse, Bush will never run for another public office? Like General Honore in New Orleans said to one reporter, "Don't get stuck on stupid." Look forward, not backwards.
Do you also understand that, if you impeach Bush, Dick Cheney becomes President? Is that what you really want? How about Rice? Hastert?
Bill
Posted by: Bill at September 24, 2005 01:07 AM
We have a Fascist government. Hence Hitler and the Nazis come to mind. And if you study how the Hitler regime worked you can see it happening here. It's as simple as that.
Posted by: History Buff at September 24, 2005 01:17 AM
Interesting and frightrening piece.
Pardon the diversion: I subscribe to the Nation and have been meaning for some time to write you and ask if Herb Corn was a relative. Upon graduation from hight school in 1942 I moved to Alexandria VA to live with my Dad who worked in the Alexandria torpedo station. While there I got a job as a copy boy on the Washington Star, where Herb Corn was, as I remember, managing editor. He was a bright guy and especially friendly to the copy boys and girls. Bill Hill was city editor; Chuck Egan
was an editor, as was Harold Bailey. Benjamin McKelway was the boss. Those were exciting times for an 18-year-old ranch kid. I recall picking up copies of the red streak for the editors and reporters on Oct. 18, 1942--my 18th birthday The banner headline: "Congress votes to draft 18-year-olds." Four months later I got drafted.
Bill Kunerth 19 Statesboro Drive, Belle Fourche, S.D. 57717
Posted by: Bill Kunerth at September 24, 2005 01:20 AM
Unfortunately Bill, Cheney is president. Why are we stuck on stupid? Because stupid is acting as president. This is not the same as when Clinton was in the presidency. Clinton was an able president. The Neocons were an insidious swarm of insects that kept encroaching until they found a weakness. What a waste. The Neocons are still the encroaching swarm. I personally believe that taking issues like the one David Corn is addressing is looking forward. We need to keep pressuring Congress to do the right thing.
Posted by: Jeanne at September 24, 2005 01:24 AM
The internet, and blogs in particular give us a bigger opportunity than hashing these things out amongst ourselves, they give us open access to our Representatives.
Don't like the way they voted? Tell them. They are from another State? Tell them anyway. They may never read the content, but some aid will dutifully record pro or con on any given issue.
Reelection looms for many, use it, before we loose it.
As cathartic as blogging is, if you really seriously care about an issue, inform yourself and write to editors of newspapers all over the country.
We need to find a way to meet in the middle or we face civil war.
Could be why the FBI is so desperate to grab this power.
Rats are deserting this sinking ship. The head of the FDA resigned. Anyone look into how many career professionals have resigned from positions of power in our government in the last year? Or why?
Outing Plame caused some attrition at the CIA Im sure.
As to more power for the FBI to gather information, give me a big break, they HAD information; important information that they declined to act on in regard to the flight schools and the students from the middle east.
Giving the FBI more power is like giving the shoolyard bully a big ol stick.
Posted by: titchaba at September 24, 2005 02:28 AM
"Anybody hear anything from Alan?"
Looks like we skated by on this one. So far anyway. They're reporting 200,000 local people without power, but it hasn't even rained hard here. Off 'n on sprinkling, and off 'n on gusts of wind blowing the shyt outta the trees (maybe 40-50 mph), but that's it for me. I've been going out on the back porch alot to watch it come in, but we're getting just the edge, and on the "clean" side too. The weirdest thing is... every so often there's a blue flash across the sky, but no 'bolt' like lightning does. Well, it's from transformers arcing. Some blow and some just spark a bit... but it looks strange. The 'eye wall' is hitting land as I type in Cameron Parish La. It's kinds rough on the Beaumont/Port Arthur area of Texas, but Louisianna, on the "dirty" side of the 'cane is getting the worst.
Hey Hajji, thanks for asking maaaaan!
*shoots ya the peace sign*
Posted by: Alan at September 24, 2005 02:39 AM
"I make this point to illustrate what occured to your media darling, Hush Rimbaugh. The prosecutor took the word of a cleaning lady and conducted an all out search."
=============
*cough That's a hella jump from talking about a possible terrorist act (keyword:possible) and eyewitness account of drug use. One is covered under usual criminal statutes, no? And the other one is kinda iffy, at best. Whoaaa, I like that word "iffy". That pretty-much describes everything Doofus has done. haha
Posted by: Alan at September 24, 2005 02:47 AM
Billmon's pissed
Visitors to the amateur porn website nowthatsfuckedup.com were given a much closer view of the action . . . Originally created as a site for men to share images of their sexual partners, this site has taken the concept of user-created content to a grim new low: US troops stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan are invited to display graphic battlefield photos apparently taken with their personal digital cameras. And thousands of people are logging on to take a look.
Posted by: Alan at September 24, 2005 04:07 AM
fake NYT headline
Posted by: Alan at September 24, 2005 04:43 AM
Alan, So ya decided to ride 'er out. I don't blame ya. Did you see the 100 mile long traffic jam? I think I'd rather take my chances in H-town than be stalled out and out of gas somewhere on the side of the road.
Man, I hope that Seafood Buffet Joint that I stop at just inside of Texas is still there the next time I come down there. Mmm, Crawdad Creole and that Gumbo.
Hey Galveston, oh Galveston, it's great to see you lucked out.
I still hear your sea winds blowin'
Your waves crashin'
Your sea birds laughin'
My girls dark eyes glowin'
I hope to see you again!
-Big Al
Posted by: alpieda at September 24, 2005 04:48 AM
The FBI could turn this country into Abu Gerb. I have worked on (carpenter) government jobs since the '70's in downtown Washington and surronding areas . The Homeland Security people have provided the construction industry with a new market.
As Robert Samulson explained shortly after 9/11, security is expensive. My career (superintendent) has allowed me into facilities which are being designed to control a gulog. Concrete trucks are sniffed by dogs while the (prescreened) driver is electronically fingerprinted.
The Army Corp. skimmed 5% from our invoice, They are not engineers, more like the mob.
Good luck to the gulf coast, use good tradesmen to rebuild.
Posted by: tomtorque at September 24, 2005 05:58 AM
Didn't they used to call this "paying protection"?
Not unlike the insurance industry. Government mandated insurance..........o.k. I had three claims in three years, and then spent three years paying double. Yeah, thats fair.
Posted by: titchaba at September 24, 2005 06:09 AM
Comment 1 Bush is Our President.
He aint mine, and I am neither leftist nor all that liberal. I know an idiot when I see one in action, Im 57, it helps to be old.
First and formost it is a sign of serious immaturity to give in to the impulse to call names and think it means anything.
Do something that helps or shut up.
Posted by: titchaba at September 24, 2005 06:27 AM
Alan,
I spoke to one person tonight in NO. He requested rubber gloves. I sent him 48 pair.
This was out of pocket, and fine with me.
Im not a rich person, given some lead time I can seek contributions.
I have mad time and this is a cause dear to my heart. Ill start a disaster relief site, but I need to hear from principals. Im not all that trusting about making contributions to recommended charities.
Real people with real need will get my attention.
Posted by: Titchaba at September 24, 2005 07:25 AM
Titchaba,
Finding ways to help individuals is really good. Seems like it serves to keep the dillution of individual contributions to large organizations to a minimum. Jill always seems to give just about every patient she sees her phone #.
While those 7am and midnight calls are sometimes irritating, it is almost always something that can be taken care of in just a few minutes doesn't hardly every cost much, if anything and makes a world of difference to the patient. It also serves to keep a nurturer like Jill plugged in to the health and safety of those she serves.
I don't think I'll ever be THAT dedicated, but she is fed and nourished by it.
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 08:21 AM
Alan,
I hope you'll not take my lack of late-night vigil as indifference. Went south to see Jill's grandbabygirl last night. Talked extensively to Marshall about how lucky he was at DubbyaDaddy Intl. Thursday and crashed about 2am right coast time.
I was hopin' nobody was gonna pop the phase "Dodge a Bullet" at least until the bullets stopped flying. Glad to know it hasn't been too bad for you.
I hope the good people up in Beaumont, Port Arthur, Orange and Lake Charles and all the little 'burs, towns and bayou St.-somebodyies made it out, ok. The 20' local storm surge couldn't be good for ANYTHING along the waterways. I understand that the drainage there is better. I haven't heard what the tide was doing when that Bitch Rita hit the beach.
Update us as you can...
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 08:36 AM
Crapola!
I just got called to say I'm on 2-hour callback to recieve "Rita evacuees"...
Sigh...here we go again. Was planning on heading up to Knoxville, TN for a rally tonight. It is about 3hrs away...Close enough? I dunno. Anybody got a line on other regional Peace rallies better that United for Peace and Justice?
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 09:20 AM
David, on July 27, 2005, ROBERT MUELLER said in a statement before the Senate Judiciary Committee:
"I would like to stress that the administrative subpoena power proposal would provide the recipient the ability to quash the subpoena on the same grounds as a grand jury subpoena."
_______________________
Can the recipient challenge the subpoena?
Posted by: micki at September 24, 2005 10:09 AM
Jeanne: LOL! Yeah, that prissy Ken Starr...remember when he'd start every sickening statement in his affected, upper-crust lockjaw:
"If I may say....."
_____________
Gag.
Posted by: micki at September 24, 2005 10:12 AM
The traitorous Patriot Act opened the door to all manner of civil abuse, and everyone in congress, both left and right, voted for it out of sheer panic without even reading it. Pretty convenient that they had it all written up and ready to go at a moments notice, and that handy antrax letter to move things along.
Posted by: Saladin at September 24, 2005 10:28 AM
Heading to Seattle shortly for the anti-war demo, but this just in:
Pattern of Abuse
A decorated Army officer reveals new allegations of detainee mistreatment in Iraq and Afghanistan. Did the military ignore his charges?
By ADAM ZAGORIN
Posted Friday, Sep. 23, 2005
The U.S. Army has launched a criminal investigation into new allegations of serious prisoner abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan made by a decorated former Captain in the Army's 82nd Airborne Division, an Army spokesman has confirmed to TIME. The claims of the Captain, who has not been named, are in part corroborated by statements of two sergeants who served with him in the 82nd Airborne; the allegations form the basis of a report from Human Rights Watch obtained by TIME and due to be released in the next few days Senate sources tell TIME that the Captain has also reported his charges to three senior Republican senators: Majority Leader Bill Frist, Armed Services Committee chairman John Warner and John McCain, a former torture victim in Vietnam. A Senate Republican staffer familiar with both the Captain and his allegations told TIME he appeared "extremely credible."
_________________________
Posted by: micki at September 24, 2005 10:30 AM
It seems to me the administrations is trotting out all the same old arguments for invading our lives only instead of looking for commies they are looking for terrorists.
Posted by: Gerry at September 24, 2005 10:33 AM
You GO micki!
Take pictures and share!
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 10:34 AM
Oh...one more thing...as an adjunct to the Time report I note above: LEADERSHIP FAILURE
http://hrw.org/reports/2005/us0905/
Thanks hajji!
Posted by: micki at September 24, 2005 10:48 AM
As Protestors Arrive, Bush Runs and Hides
By ANN McFEATTERS
Block News Alliance
Sep 24, 2005, 04:52
As thousands of antiwar protesters began descending on the nation's capital, the nation's president prepared to leave town.
The White House in mid-week said President Bush was scheduled to travel to "TBD" (to be determined) on Friday after leaving Birmingham, Ala., and would be continuing on to "TBD" on Saturday. Clearly, Bush's advisers decided it would not be smart to have the president holed up in the residence, surrounded by a marching sea of angry Americans wearing yellow "Bush lies, who dies?" buttons, especially not with the need to show compassion to victims of yet another hurricane.
Before leaving town, the president went to the Pentagon where, flanked by the very purposeful defense chief Don Rumsfeld and the ever-solicitous Vice President Cheney, he talked about the "major battlefronts" in the war on terror _ Iraq and Afghanistan _ and how the war is going.
Oh, ye of little faith. It's going well!
With killing still going on in Afghanistan, 18,000 Americans there, the fledgling government struggling to hang on, the Taliban rebuilding and Osama bin Laden still loose, what is the progress?
Bush answered, "Afghanistan is a good example of progress being made. You might remember Afghanistan was the home base for the Taliban, as well as al Qaeda. And now we've got a democracy in _ into Afghanistan, and the world is better for it and safer for it. You bet we're making progress."
*****end of clip*****
Chicken, Chicken-s**t chicken-hawks.
capt
Posted by: capt at September 24, 2005 11:13 AM
To the regulars here, SALUD! Been reading this blog for the past couple of weeks and think highly of most of you.I'm new at this but hope to contribute to the oveall thought provoking substance in time. For now, i'll be listening from the mts of western carolina. buff
Posted by: buffalojoe at September 24, 2005 11:36 AM
Capt, I read that bush is on his way to Colorado to observerve a martial law drill in action.
---------------
From the Alex Jones report;
Bush is visiting Northcom for a reason. That reason is Bush overseeing (but certainly not controlling) a martial law takeover drill which is directly connected to Granite Shadow, which the Washington Post reported, "is yet another new Top Secret and compartmented operation related to the military's extra-legal powers regarding weapons of mass destruction. It allows for emergency military operations in the United States without civilian supervision or control.
The article outlines the preparations for martial law takeover in the US. So Northcom are running a martial law takeover drill at the exact same time that Bush is visiting Northcom. Is this a coincidence?
The operation is taking place right now in Washington DC. To repeat, this is a drill, we do not claim it to be any more than that, though the implications are still sinister. Exercises would normally be cancelled in light of the hurricane but that hasn't prevented this exercise from going ahead
Just as ominous is the fact that Texas Governor Rick Perry has appeared on the news saying that the onslaught of hurricane Rita could provde terrorists with a chance to strike the US at its weakest point.
---------------
He has important business to tend to, first and foremost is determining how best to get us pissed off citizens under control when the shit finally hits the fan. I posted yesterday that the top dems are also staying clear. What a choice we have for the next prez selection, chicken shit, spineless dems taking money from AIPAC or facist neocons bent on destroying the country, and doing a fine job of it.
Posted by: Saladin at September 24, 2005 11:38 AM
LETTER TO THE FBI
Posted by: James Ha at September 24, 2005 11:40 AM
welcome buffalojoe, from the Sierra Nevada Mtn.s of Cali.
Posted by: Saladin at September 24, 2005 11:40 AM
welcome buffalojoe, from the ABQ~!
very welcome indeed!
capt
Posted by: capt at September 24, 2005 11:43 AM
Very good letter James, too bad no one in a position to do anything will actually read it.
Posted by: Saladin at September 24, 2005 11:45 AM
Tombstone
I was wondering what words would be put on America's tombstone at the end time and the rapture. I was also wondering who would carve and etch the tombstone.
I believe the Saint Joseph, the Guardian and Protector of Mary and Jesus, will do the carving and etching. Joseph was a carpenter by trade. As was the custom, Joseph taught Jesus to be a carpenter. Carpenter was a catch all name for a person working with wood but also stones and rocks. The Middle East has many stones and rocks in the region. Being a carpenter was a slow and laborious task.
Once America's tombstone is completed the wrath of God will be upon America and her people. What will be the words on the tombstone? Jesus, while He works with Joseph, has tears in his eyes and bouts of crying and sobbing. A nonviolent Jesus knows that the completion of the tombstone means doom for America.
Completion of the tombstone is a slow and laborious process. The words on the tombstone reads, "HERE LIES A DEPRAVED INDIFFERENT NATION OF COLD BLOODED KILLERS WHO FOUND DELIGHT AND JOY IN THE MURDERING OF HER BROTHERS AND SISTERS."
Posted by: Gerald at September 24, 2005 11:47 AM
Tombstone
I was wondering what words would be put on America's tombstone at the end time and the rapture. I was also wondering who would carve and etch the tombstone.
I believe the Saint Joseph, the Guardian and Protector of Mary and Jesus, will do the carving and etching. Joseph was a carpenter by trade. As was the custom, Joseph taught Jesus to be a carpenter. Carpenter was a catch all name for a person working with wood but also stones and rocks. The Middle East has many stones and rocks in the region. Being a carpenter was a slow and laborious task.
Once America's tombstone is completed the wrath of God will be upon America and her people. What will be the words on the tombstone? Jesus, while He works with Joseph, has tears in his eyes and bouts of crying and sobbing. A nonviolent Jesus knows that the completion of the tombstone means doom for America.
Completion of the tombstone is a slow and laborious process. The words on the tombstone reads, "HERE LIES A DEPRAVED INDIFFERENT NATION OF COLD BLOODED KILLERS WHO FOUND DELIGHT AND JOY IN THE MURDERING OF HER BROTHERS AND SISTERS."
Posted by: Gerald at September 24, 2005 11:47 AM
Keeping Up
In keeping up with demographic trends America is trying to balance the Supreme Court. Bush has decided on Alberto "The Father of Torture" Gonzales for the remaining position on the Supreme Court.
Bush was scheduled to go to Texas to view the hurricane but he decided to talk to the notorious reverend James Dobson in Colorado Springs. Bush wanted to know the reverend's take on his selection of Gonzo, as he is called by friends.
Posted by: Gerald at September 24, 2005 11:55 AM
Just thought I would share a recent e-mail from
Air America. My guess is that it was sent to about 50 people.
Dear Air America Radio Listener,
When we launched the Air America Radio network one year ago, the country was being talked to death by conservative zealots like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, and others. Right Wing radio saturated every media market and every community a dominance of the airwaves that has been a huge part of what allowed the Right Wing to:
* Drag America into the Iraq war.
* Open up the Arctic National Refuge for oil drilling.
* Take over both houses of Congress.
* And, of course, win the 2004 Presidential election.
Rather than wait for the Right Wing to run out of breath, we launched Air America Radio to give the country back its voice. Thanks to listeners like you, we have a presence on 70 stations covering 60% of U.S. media markets. Air America Radio currently offers 15 shows and runs 24 hours a day of entertaining but always enlightening programming.
To continue this great success story and start shaping the national debate the way that Right Wing talk radio does every day, we've got to reach into every community in this country. We know we canŐt achieve this next stage of growth without significant help from you, our loyal listeners.
WeŐve also been asked on many occasions by our listeners how they can help out. Today we are launching a new program called AIR AMERICA ASSOCIATES that gives you the opportunity to do just that.
As an Air America Associate, you are a member of a special group of listeners who support Air America Radio and are dedicated to building the Air America community. When you sign up, we will send you a packet of bumper stickers to remind you that your job as an Associate is to spread the word about Air America Radio to other progressives in your workplace, your family, and your neighborhood.
Also, as an Air America Associate, you'll be kept informed of events in your area and receive a monthly Associates insider newsletter with backstage news from our shows and our headquarters. And in time, when we launch our paid services, as an Associate you will be eligible for special discounts for premium content.
Rush Limbaugh didn't take over our airwaves by himself he had an army of "dittoheads" behind him. We will never reach the same critical mass that he has without our listeners helping us as well. So, please become an Air America Associate today by clicking here:
Thank you very much for your support,
Danny Goldberg
Air America Radio CEO
Can anyone say Dead Air America? Why don't we just merge it with NPR and call it what is. A taxpayer supported entitlement program just like most liberal policies.
As a conservative, I wish to extend a hand of friendship to the Corn posters. I have a message board that I would like to make available to you should David's site suffer another idiotic attack that shuts down his server or causes other problems. Or, feel free to use it if you wish to go off topic. Remember, just try to keep it clean.
Tim H
Forum
Posted by: Tim H at September 24, 2005 12:02 PM
#42, I would say that Saladin's information is more pausible. Prediction! There will be NO and I mean NO Election in 2008. Martial Law will be declared prior to the election, keeping Bush and his neocons in power so that Bush and the neocons will not be tried at The Hague for murder and war crimes.
Posted by: Gerald at September 24, 2005 12:02 PM
Elections really do not matter anymore because America's tombstone is about finished.
Posted by: Gerald at September 24, 2005 12:05 PM
Sorry for the message error if you tried to click on the Forum from my previous post.
Thy this one and click on "my Forum"
Forum
Posted by: Tim H at September 24, 2005 12:08 PM
Animal Lovers
There has been much talk about the leaving of animals during the hurricane. Animals are important but human beings are more important.
We had a dog for 14 years and 3 months until we had to put her to sleep. It was a difficult decision because she was part of the family.
I know that animals are important but why is America home to animal lovers and haters of human beings?
Posted by: Gerald at September 24, 2005 12:10 PM
Tim, thanks for the offer, but you may have noticed we go off topic all the time. You claim to be a conservative yet support bushco? This is non-sensical. And as for Air America, I won't miss it if it dies, I never listen to them, they just lie by ommission.
Posted by: Saladin at September 24, 2005 12:13 PM
Saladin,
I am not a blind supporter of Bush. I have several areas of disagreement with him and the Congress as a whole. My offer was sincere though. Mainly if some idiot keeps attacking David's site.
Take Care!
Tim H
Posted by: Tim H at September 24, 2005 12:18 PM
Not to mention, I asked a clean question on your "forum" and was scrubbed, asked why and that was scrubbed.
Not an open forum.
If I want to be scrubbed for no reason I can go many. many places.
Thanks, but no thanks,
capt
Posted by: capt at September 24, 2005 12:20 PM
Hmmm...imagine that...a RADIO network interested in PROMOTION!
How very unusual...
Now...back to shoveling it in a VERY literal way...
-T
p.s. anybody need any organic fertilizer? I got MOUNTAINS of it!
HEY THERE BUFFALOJOE! You might be able to see my HOUSE from there!
I can see the SC/NC border, from around Tuxedo, NC to the top of Sassafrass MT. From the top of my own little mountain between Pickens and Dacusville, SC.
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 12:21 PM
neocon is not conservative. Never has been never will be.
Posted by: capt at September 24, 2005 12:21 PM
The Lord's Prayer
I would like to start with the Lord's Prayer.
Our Father, Who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. Amen.
As Christians, when we recite the Our Father, we must remember that the prayer is more than just words. The prayer is a powerful prayer.
Let us look at the words beyond rote memory. When we say the Our Father, we are acknowledging God as the Father, Our Father. This acknowledgement means that God is the Father of all His children but it is more than the fact that we are His children. We are united in God as brothers and sisters. We are all brothers and sisters.
We know that God is in heaven and that His name will be revered on earth as in heaven. His kingdom is the earth and heaven. We are also asking God for nourishment. As we ask God for nourishment to sustain us, we are asking God to forgive any transgressions and we are to also forgive people who have transgressed against us. Father John Corapi in his lectures equates the daily bread with the Eucharist that Catholics receive at daily Mass. Catholics have a double concern when they recite the Our Father and for Catholics to want to kill their brothers and sisters is a clear indication of irreverence to God. As I have said in some previous posts, that irreverence to God is eternal perdition. I have asked that all of God's children to never show irreverence to God but I especially appeal to my brothers and sisters to never worship a false god which would show irreverence to the true God.
We are also asking God to not be sinful but to keep us away from sin.
The prayer is not just words but it is a powerful statement that we are accepting God as Our Father and as Christians we are united in God as brothers and sisters.
To recite the Our Father and to hate, kill, and revel in wars we really are not Christians. We are instead dishonoring God and we are separated from Him through our sinful ways. To separate ourselves from God, we are on the road to eternal damnation.
In praying we must ask ourselves the question. How can I give glory to God? We can give glory to God by loving and showing mercy to all our brothers and sisters. We are united with God as a family and a community as His children for all eternity.
Posted by: Gerald at September 24, 2005 12:24 PM
Origins of Neoconservative
Neoconservatives are conservatives who are "new" (neo) to the conservative movement in some way. Usually, this comes as a result from the migration from the left of the political spectrum to the right, over the course of many years. Though every such neoconservative has an individual story to tell, there are several key events in recent American history that are often said to have prompted the shift.
Some of today's most famous neocons are from Eastern European Jewish immigrant families, who were frequently on the edge of poverty. The Great Depression radicalized many immigrants, and introduced them to the new and revolutionary ideas of socialism and communism. The Soviet Union's break with Stalinism in the 1950's led to the rise of the so-called New Left in America, which popularized anti-Sovietism along with anti-capitalism. The New Left became very popular among the children of hardline Communist families.
Opposition to the New Left and D?tente with the Soviet Union would cause the Neoconservatives to emerge as the first important group of social policy critics from the working class. The original neoconservatives, though not yet using this term, were generally liberals or socialists who strongly supported the Second World War. Multiple strands contributed to their ideas prior to becoming neoconservatives, including the Depression-era ideas of former New Dealers, trade unionists and Trotskyists, particularly those who followed the political ideas of Max Shachtman. The current neoconservative desire to spread democratic capitalism abroad often by force, it is sometimes said, parallels the Trotskyist dream of world socialist revolution. The influence of the Trotskyists perhaps left them with strong anti-Soviet tendencies, especially considering the Great Purges targeting alleged Trotskyists in Soviet Russia. A number of neoconservatives such as Jeane Kirkpatrick, Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz were Shachtmanites in their youth while others were involved in the Social Democrats, USA, which was formed by Schachtman's supporters in the 1970s.
The original "neoconservative" theorists, such as Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz, were often associated with the magazine Commentary, and their intellectual evolution is quite evident in that magazine over the course of these years. Throughout the 1950s and early 1960s the early neoconservatives were anti-Communist socialists strongly supportive of the civil rights movement, integration, and Martin Luther King. However, they grew disillusioned with the Johnson administration's Great Society. Some neoconservatives also came to despise the counterculture of the 1960s and what they felt was a growing "anti-Americanism" among many baby boomers, in the movement against the Vietnam War and in the emerging New Left.
*****end of clip*****
Nothing conservative about neo-liberal thinking. It is as old as the hills and just as effective in politics as the mismanager and thief has been in the WH.
capt
Posted by: capt at September 24, 2005 12:32 PM
Hajji,
Of course you know most stations raise revenue by advertiting. But the advertiser has to know how much bang for their buck they will get. Since there are no listeners to Dead Air America, there is only a whimper for the advertiting buck. Be careful if you head to Knoxville.
Capt.
I wouldn't want you on my forum anyway. You're just too mean.
Tim H
Posted by: Tim H at September 24, 2005 12:36 PM
In the event you are looking for an open, uncensored forum for any reason go to Captains Quarters.
I will never scrub nor censor anybody for any reason. You can post any comment or start any topic.
capt
Posted by: capt at September 24, 2005 12:41 PM
Cointelpro, Deja Vu.
Bill said, quoting Gen. Honore, "Don't get stuck on stupid."
Unfortunately, that's what the Supreme Injustices saddled us with as Ex-Pres. Carter noted the other day.
Got my marchin' shoes on...
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at September 24, 2005 12:41 PM
MEAN?
Why did you scrub a simple question?
I am not mean you are weak.
capt
Posted by: capt at September 24, 2005 12:43 PM
Capt.
Of course, you know I am kidding.
Tim H
Posted by: Tim H at September 24, 2005 12:44 PM
Hey Tim H!
Maybe next time the the OHIO floods, maybe YOU and Slow Hand (and brain) DUBBYA could jam.
Looks like you're already playing the same song! He's WAY off key, as usual, though!
-T
p.s. Do you STILL think Bush/Cheney '04 are "The best men to lead this country?"
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 12:44 PM
Now THAT's MEAN!
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 12:47 PM
Hajji:
Actually there are far many individuals who could lead this country better than Bush/Cheney. Most of them are too smart to get involved in politics. One guy I actually think could put them all to shame was Ross Perot but even his heart wasn't in it. Believe me when I say, I have an inherent distrust in big government no matter what party is in charge.
Capt:
Just visited Captains Quarters. You have yourself a nice site there. Baby just woke up so it is time for this dad to entertain & feed. I'll pop in later and give it a little more study. Thanks for the link.
Tim H
Posted by: Tim H at September 24, 2005 12:50 PM
However, I am not.
Should we revisit your drunken ravings posting as me and others and connecting to NAMBLA?
You still saying Mr. David Corn is a founding member of NAMBLA?
How about some of your locker room and fart jokes and some of that respect you like to spread when you are high?
You are a troll and all the nice talk will never change your stripes.
Thanks just the same, you obviously have no shame or you would not return after the crap you have posted here.
Shall we review? (rhetorical I would no waste my time)
Thanks
capt
Posted by: capt at September 24, 2005 12:52 PM
Leadership Failure
Firsthand Accounts of Torture of Iraqi Detainees by the U.S. Army's 82nd Airborne Division
I. Summary
On their day off people would show up all the time. Everyone in camp knew if you wanted to work out your frustration you show up at the PUC tent.1 In a way it was sport. The cooks were all U.S. soldiers. One day [a sergeant] shows up and tells a PUC to grab a pole. He told him to bend over and broke the guy’s leg with a mini Louisville Slugger, a metal bat. He was the fucking cook. He shouldn’t be in with no PUCs.
— 82nd Airborne sergeant, describing events at FOB Mercury, Iraq
If I as an officer think we’re not even following the Geneva Conventions, there’s something wrong. If officers witness all these things happening, and don’t take action, there’s something wrong. If another West Pointer tells me he thinks, “Well, hitting somebody might be okay,” there’s something wrong.
— 82nd Airborne officer, describing confusion in Iraq concerning allowable interrogation techniques
Residents of Fallujah called them “the Murderous Maniacs” because of how they treated Iraqis in detention. They were soldiers of the U.S. Army’s 82nd Airborne Division, 1st Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, stationed at Forward Operating Base Mercury (FOB Mercury) in Iraq. The soldiers considered this name a badge of honor.2
One officer and two non-commissioned officers (NCOs) of the 82nd Airborne who witnessed abuse, speaking on condition of anonymity, described in multiple interviews with Human Rights Watch how their battalion in 2003-2004 routinely used physical and mental torture as a means of intelligence gathering and for stress relief. One soldier raised his concerns within the army chain of command for 17 months before the Army agreed to undertake an investigation, but only after he had contacted members of Congress and considered goingpublic with the story.
According to their accounts, the torture and other mistreatment of Iraqis in detention was systematic and was known at varying levels of command. Military Intelligence personnel, they said, directed and encouraged army personnel to subject prisoners to forced, repetitive exercise, sometimes to the point of unconsciousness, sleep deprivation for days on end, and exposure to extremes of heat and cold as part of the interrogation process. At least one interrogator beat detainees in front of other soldiers. Soldiers also incorporated daily beatings of detainees in preparation for interrogations. Civilians believed to be from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) conducted interrogations out of sight, but not earshot, of soldiers, who heard what they believed were abusive interrogations.
All three soldiers expressed confusion on the proper application of the Geneva Conventions on the laws of armed conflict in the treatment of prisoners. All had served in Afghanistan prior to Iraq and said that contradictory statements by U.S. officials regarding the applicability of the Geneva Conventions in Afghanistan and Iraq (see Conclusion) contributed to their confusion, and ultimately to how they treated prisoners. Although none were still in Iraq when we interviewed them, the NCOs said they believed the practices continue. [...] more
**************
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at September 24, 2005 12:57 PM
Robert...
Make sure and wear a "Peace Helmet"... I hear the Freepers are gonna throw rocks...
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 01:02 PM
Capt
I am sincere in extending an olive branch in peace. Some of my rantings in the past were unjustifiable and as I told you in a private e-mail, they were like a foul odor. You just have to curl your nose and look away. I came to the realization that those postings you refer to were doing nothing to advance a debate or anything civil, for that matter. I came to that realization by coming to the Corn site and learning that there are views that differ than mine that are worth listening to. I also noticed that I sped through those posts that, like mine you mention, are nothing but rants filled with hatred. I do not want my posts to be like that anymore than I didn't like to read those of others who posted in the same manner.
I don't expect you to come to my forum but I am glad you provided your link to your site. I will visit there and I will read your postings. After all, your Corn postings were never "sped through" by me.
Like I said in my e-mail, Capt, your allright with me.
Tim H
Posted by: Tim H at September 24, 2005 01:02 PM
hajji: i'm looking at Ga and TN from NC. See you at Sockemdog on the Chatooga River sometime.
gonna visit you at your site Capt.
My new way of attempting to speak with republicans(please,don't confuse yourselves with consevatives) is just to ask them what is going right with their leadership in all 3 branches of gov't. Still a short conversation but at least it's over before the shouting starts.
Posted by: buffalojoe at September 24, 2005 01:13 PM
hajji: i'm looking at Ga and TN from NC. See you at Sockemdog on the Chatooga River sometime.
gonna visit you at your site Capt.
My new way of attempting to speak with republicans(please,don't confuse yourselves with consevatives) is just to ask them what is going right with their leadership in all 3 branches of gov't. Still a short conversation but at least it's over before the shouting starts.
Posted by: buffalojoe at September 24, 2005 01:13 PM
Hajji:
If the freepers throw rocks, let me know. I will be the first to say that we will hunt them down and bring them to justice.
Tim H
Posted by: Tim H at September 24, 2005 01:15 PM
It's not Freepers with rocks that worry me.
It's those LAPD guys with huge weaponry, mostly bought after that bank robbery someone refered to the other day. That weaponry is always on prominent display during these demonstrations.
They've got all sorts of new crowd control toys, and they love to show them off, even if they don't have a reason to use them.
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at September 24, 2005 01:15 PM
_______________
One of Ross' most dangerous traits is his unwillingness to admit facts he doesn't want to believe. If someone does this in an argument, but they know they are not right, we call them a liar. Ross does not seem to be a liar, though he says untruths. Instead, he refuses to believe the information he doesn't like.
He changes his perception, not the reality, and this is the most "crazy" of his well known traits.
His own son, Ross Jr., says "If he thinks he is right, that's all that matters." (Posner, p128). There are many examples. Perot has his company's headquarter's grass spray-painted green during Dallas' dry spells. (p91) When some employees who had won the company's "Recruiter of the Year" award left EDS, Perot wanted to erase their names from the engraved plaque."
My Guy (my guy) Talkin' 'bout Maaaai Guyahay....MY GUY"
Sounds familiar to me!
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 01:17 PM
buffalo Joe...
Sounds like the Ocoee might be fun too! I was helping build a Cabin between Chattsworth and Ellijay, GA a couple years ago, so I know how beautiful that area is. Worked well for Eric Rudolph for a while, too. Gotta wait for the dam on the Ocoee...but DAMN! Nice paddling, that.
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 01:21 PM
Robert,
Somebody "Accidentally" drove a freekin' Tank into a rally there not too long ago, didn't they?
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 01:22 PM
Hajji:
The link you provided didn't load. I am not saying Perot is the savior of all that is good, but I actually think he would be better than Bush/Cheney. I think that the best people to run this country just don't have the stomach for politics.
Tim H
Posted by: Tim H at September 24, 2005 01:23 PM
Hajji,
A tank (or two, I think, actually) did somehow end up at a rally near the Wilshire Federal Building, not too long ago. I don't think that was LAPD, though. To the best of my knowledge, they don't have anything heavier than a Bradley...
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at September 24, 2005 01:28 PM
_____________
But these traits are so intense that they literally threaten his sanity. He refuses to admit wrongness or fair defeat, and if he can't change reality in the broader world, he seems to need to change it in the press -- or in his own mind.
Ross Perot is truly a great man, that is a man of great strengths and great, crippling flaws that he is unable to acknowledge, much less cure. This man has already enjoyed tremendous power in his life; were he to achieve his goal of becoming president, as was very possible in 1992, he would surely become a heroic failure to rival anyone in Shakespeare or the Greek tragedies.
_________
Perot sounds just like Bush! but I've never heard anybody call him a "Great Man".... link works fine for me, both times.
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 01:35 PM
My ASS would be better than Bush/Cheney...but then again, She's probably got more moral fiber (and HIGH FIBER!!!) than that of most politicians...
"Politics" - from the greek "poly" meaning many and "ticks" meaning blood-sucking insects....
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 01:37 PM
Shit...I think Knoxville's out...
Jill's doing the bills and $50+ in gas, and expenses will kill the grocery budget until her next payday.
I should've gotten an earlier start.
I should've gotten the $45 bus to DC.
I should've been rich.
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 01:39 PM
Or is that "tics" - many repeated, uncontrollable gestures?
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at September 24, 2005 01:42 PM
Word from Washington D.C. - Watching on C-Span.org - The streets are jammed!!!
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at September 24, 2005 01:43 PM
I'm thinkin' it was Rove's twin hurricanes, driving up gas prices, just to keep me and others from attending the peace rallies this weekend...
Tim H was RIGHT!
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 01:44 PM
...but according to Robert, has FAILED MISERABLY!
WOO HOO!
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 01:45 PM
Accidentally cliced on C-span 2. Got Buzz Aldrin...thought that odd, but remembered how astronauts always come back talking about "One world, one people..."
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 01:50 PM
Capt or Hajji,
If Micki or Robert get pictures can we display them on your sites or does that take too much space?
Posted by: Jeanne at September 24, 2005 01:51 PM
Buffalo Joe,
A big welcome from the land of 10,000 lakes, Minnesota.
Robert,
I heard about a new weapon that they were going to use in NO to subdue "rioters", you know, the survivors of one of the worst hurricanes to hit the US. I think is uses electrical impulses or magnetics or something.
Posted by: Jeanne at September 24, 2005 01:54 PM
Hajji,
It only takes 2 to make a rally. Show your support for the regional rally's by taking yours local. I guarantee there will be others willing to join you and Jill.
Tim H
Posted by: Tim H at September 24, 2005 01:57 PM
Jeanne,
Shouldn't be a problem at all. My dial-up and ancient computer (is it SUPPOSED to have a pilot light?) make it all slow,
Capt's got a good base or we "might could" (as they say in Pickens) just set up a new site exclusively for pics and stories.
Ralph Nader on C-span NOW.
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 01:59 PM
Hajji,
I'm watching CSpan. Everybody thank CSAN for the coverage.
Posted by: Jeanne at September 24, 2005 02:02 PM
Looks like there might be some folks downtown at the Federal Building this evening at 7. I will do that.
Thanks for the encouragement!
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 02:03 PM
Sonic 'Lasers' Head to Flood Zone By Xeni Jardin
EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE, California -- Air-raid sirens, Frank Sinatra songs and Muhammad Ali trash talk blared over the Southern California desert in a demonstration of new acoustic technology for crowd control and disaster communications.
In mid-90's morning heat at Edwards Air Force Base, HPV Technologies and American Technology demonstrated prototypes of non-lethal sonic devices for a group of military and law enforcement guests, including representatives of the U.K. Home Office.
Representatives of both companies say that within days, they will ship some units of their respective products to areas hit by Hurricane Katrina, so authorities can use the tools for crowd control, aid distribution and rescue operations.
Costa Mesa, California-based HPV showed off three sizes of its Magnetic Acoustic Device, or MAD, a black square panel composed of multiple speakers. The units on display ranged from about 4 to 10 feet across.
The device uses magnets approximately 6 inches tall and 9.25 inches wide to convert electrical pulses into sound waves, and is capable of aiming sound precisely for thousands of feet -- like the sonic equivalent of a laser, or spotlight. [...] more
***************
"There has never been a more impeachable president..." Ralph Nader - just now
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at September 24, 2005 02:04 PM
I gotta watch on the 'puter...no cable, no dish...
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 02:05 PM
Power corrupts and as with J. Edgar Hoover we all saw how total power corrupted totally. Hoover held even President's hostage to fear. Fear of him. The F.B.I better known as the Dept. of Fumblers, Bunglers and Incompetents wants to be above the law it's sworn to up hold which is the Constitution. They're real persistent at getting more power to abuse but not too good at catching crooks and terrorists. Give these thugs nothing.
Posted by: glennk at September 24, 2005 02:08 PM
Jessica Lange...calling out PNAC!
go girl!
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 02:08 PM
I'm travelling light- just my phonecamera with me. If I get any photos they won't be great.
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at September 24, 2005 02:08 PM
What the HELL does "crowd control" have to do with victims of Hurricanes and Floods?
Send the equivalent in food, clothing, shelter and medical care and you'll have no need for "crowd controll".
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 02:10 PM
Robert, if you see any good local coverage link it to us.
Posted by: Jeanne at September 24, 2005 02:12 PM
That goes for everybody else. I have a rally later in October we will be going to.
Twenty bus loads encircle the white house.
Posted by: Jeanne at September 24, 2005 02:13 PM
Robert...they'll still be "documentation"...
Just point and shoot. 'specially if the LAPD goons get out of line.
good luck and godspeed.
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 02:13 PM
Claiming 250,000 people so far...
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 02:14 PM
Hajji,
The more I see of it, it appears that Katrina was more of a drill of crowd control than disaster relief. FEMA was more interested in controlling relief supplies than in facilatating their dispersal.
White House now surrounded. Stage announcing more than 250,000 in the streets in D.C. Just then my link to c-span died.
Curious.
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at September 24, 2005 02:15 PM
I'm still connected. Some chick from Phillipines.
Read Mark Twain on how the US invaded the Phillipines... that's when "The War Prayer" was written.
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 02:21 PM
I am more than willing to post any pictures or what not.
If you want your own page just go:
http://www.blogger.com/start
You can set up a board in about 5 minutes.
Either way and in anyway I can help.
capt
Posted by: capt at September 24, 2005 02:21 PM
Good local coverage?
In Los Angeles?
You'd think we'ed have some trained news folks here...but most local media are terrible.
Try KPFK
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at September 24, 2005 02:22 PM
Switched media players and reconnected to c-span.
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at September 24, 2005 02:24 PM
Lynne Stewart was on Democracy Now. A very brave and good woman. She just finished speaking.
Posted by: Jeanne at September 24, 2005 02:26 PM
Jeanne,
Wasn't Ricardo Alarcon just sooo much more articulate than W.
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at September 24, 2005 02:30 PM
Robert,
Jim Thornton is an old pal from WOWK-TV in Huntington, WV. Feel free to lean on him, if he's still doing drive-time. Tell him you hail from "Zarphania"...that'll perk up his ears!
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 02:33 PM
robert,
Oh jeezzzzz. Ricardo Alarcon makes sense. He understands leadership. Anybody who wants to see the interview it was on Democracy Now. He represents Cuba. You won't see that on MSM.
Posted by: Jeanne at September 24, 2005 02:38 PM
Hajji,
I'll check him out. Let's see how he, or his station, covers today. Sometimes, of course, it is hard to get a story on the air, no matter the wishes of the voice on the air, if you get my drift.
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at September 24, 2005 02:38 PM
I know...I haven't heard his show, myself.
He did traffic for a long time, voice-overs and I just now found out he's doing drive-time Newsradio. I'm VERY curious. My old e-mail for him doesn't work anymore, but I'll ferret him out...we used to get into SO MUCH trouble...
-T
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 02:49 PM
Tim, since you reference our private emails I will post it below for all to see:
*****
First your email to me:
Subject: Who the hell are you? Spineless Jerk!
Hi there Tommy Hodges, Greenville South Carolina. AKA Hajji. Do you really think it was a sin form me to be posting on a site other than my real name? How about you "Hajji?" And how about you Captain Kirk? Are you really Captain Jerk or are we just supposed to guess. My name is Tim Hodges and you can read all about me and my family at www.tytandan.com. You Liberal pukes are pathetic and have no humor at all.
Regarding the link to NAMBLA. David Corn is a founding member as is still a member to this day. I was just assuming that most Cornbots were also members. I wasn't trying to recruit, just providing a quick link to your favorite site.
Both of you claim I am a coward postiing on this pathetic site under an assumed name.Who the hell is Hajji and Capt? You both are spineless liberals! Just in case you missed it Tommy Hodges of Greenville South Carolina, my name is Tim Hodges of Flatwoods, KY. My website is http://www.tytandan.com. I live and work in Greenup County, KY. My wife is Maria, my sons are Tyler, Tanner, Daniel and Mark. Did you really think I had something to hide{other than the fact that I am related to you} or were you just blowing the liberal stalk of the month. Apparently, David Corn's is your favorite.
Get some humor.
Eh? You idiot!
*************************
My reply was that I would pray for you and your family because you are a psycho.
Then I sent you:
Subject: Re: Can we have a chat?
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:50 AM
Subject: Can we have a chat?
Tim,
Hajji is a man I consider a good friend. You are related so you get a bit more consideration than a stranger. I do not know if this helps you to understand but:
44
Hajji,
It is just too obvious, Timmy is not able to mask his commentary well enough to be a faker/poser but it is curious why he would play such games. I guess he is not willing to stand behind the comments of his alter ego?
Sad really but in a small joke kind of way, you know?
(mini ha ha) HA!
capt
Posted by: capt at August 19, 2005 11:56 AM
*************
The above post was not about you nor directed at you.
On the Corn Blog we have had Tim, TimL, and so many made up handles the "Tim's" have posted under, the regulars called the "Tim's" collectively the "Dept. of Tim's" or the "DOT".
The only Tim I knew about was this troll. I guess those posts could have been from you but I doubt it. Frankly the DOT posts were more respectful and respectable. (with a few exceptions)
This has been since over a year ago so, my post was in answer to a comment made by Hajji about "Timmy". I assumed and would have always thought the comments were about the DOT not Tim Hodges.
Now YOU might have known he was talking about you, and he might have been talking about you but I was offering a comment about our resident Tim, not "Tim H." That was until you went into a complete melt-down.
I knew he had a cousin because Hajji had mentioned your webpage and I went there and asked you a simple question, you scrubbed it. No big deal.
That was the last time I ever thought of you "Tim H." Hajji's cousin, that is until you overreacted to a post not even directed at you.
I have never posted to you about ANYTHING, yet you seem to have an issue with me, personally. I do not know why and I do not really care. I will not make your problems mine.
The things you have posted as "Starry Eyed", "Bartender" and the odd assortment of insulting handles and such and the fact that you had some reason to post as "capt" with disgusting sexual innuendo and links to NAMBLA, your accusations about David are way out of line and un-called for but AGAIN no big deal. You will post whatever you like, whatever you think passes for enlightened commentary. I do not care one iota what you post. You can post as "capt", I do not care. It is an open blog and no rules apply.
I wanted to give you the opportunity to see the overreaction you made. I have not and will never offer you my opinion of what you have posted, not on the blog. I do not post to trolls.
It is my understanding that you are a veteran. I assume you remember what it means to be respectful and honorable. You have never had any reason to attack me personally or others. I can only assume you are a good man that is going through some rough times. The blog is a good place to vent.
I am not asking for an apology, I do not know if I would accept an apology from you as your posts are inexcusable.
I just figured if you are a man of honor and you do know what it means to be respectful you might make an effort to mend some fences with your cousin as your posts are not the only thing that you have done and said that represents the worst most disrespectful and dishonorable character a man could possess.
In my heart of hearts I believe you are a better man than the things you post. You should be that man not a troll posting about sick sexual acts and juvenile quips about body functions and such. AGAIN no biggie as far as I am concerned.
Now that you know I was not talking about you, you have to consider: was Hajji even talking about you? I do not know but as a man you could ask him.
You have sons? I hope you consider every word you post could be read by them. I do not think that you would want them to be as big a jerk as you have been and continue to be.
If I have EVER wronged you in some way or by my posts (which are almost all just a clip and an opinion) I challenge you to address me man to man and give me the same respect you would like to have in return.
I am not a bad man. I am very respectful and I am a man of honor. I live a happy life and am at peace with myself and my world. We may disagree about politics but thankfully that is not the whole world.
You have never had a reason to call me spineless, a coward or any of the other despicable and dastardly insults that seem to flow from a well of unjustified hatred in which you seem to be drowning.
So, the ball is in your court. You can do whatever you choose to do. Post whatever you choose to post. But if you have a problem with me personally I would like to know why and maybe we could sort that out.
I also believe if you can find the honor and respect they taught you in the military you will own up to your over-the-top over-reaction and maybe you will just quit it. (well I can hope)
As I said above I assume you are a good and honorable man, a respectful and understanding human being, no better and no worse than anybody else. I truly hope you do not continue to act as if you are less than that.
As I said in my return to you email, I will pray for you and you should consider some kind of help. What you have been posting is not that of a good man, not even a teenager. What you post is not respectful nor mature.
We can disagree about politics but we are both Americans, citizens and patriots, each in our own way so whatever our differences are they do not give you license for the type of low-brow content, childish invective and clearly intended insults you keep posting.
You and your family are in my prayers. Your cousin is a good man you should take up this issue and resolve any hard feelings, they are unnecessary and unwarranted.
I would hope for a little civility, you know the common respect we all show for others we do not know. Like a nod from a neighbor I want any issue between you and me to be resolved.
Here is to a better tomorrow, a better kinder and more peaceful coexistence regardless of the past.
******
Your reply:
You're okay with me capt. Sometimes my posts are like a foul odor. You just have to curl your nose and glance away.
Tim H.
**********
You are as welcome to post on my board as I was scrubbed from yours. The only difference is I can and do stand by EVERYTHING I have posted.
Something you should not do. But maybe you have evolved. I stand by my assessment that you are a psycho. That's my opinion and I have reason to have such an opinion.
Thanks for bringing it up. Would you like to revist some of your saucier posts? Just ask I have them handy.
Anytime you want to review or if you just try to pretend you are sane or respectful, we will straighten it out in short order.
At minimum you could apologize for your slander of Mr. David Corn, you play on his dime and have been way over the top with his being involved in NAMBLA among many other vile invective and childish school yard taunts.
My guess is the gross posts were a result of alcohol or drugs. Maybe you have sobered up?
You are still a long way from gaining my respect. No big deal.
capt
Posted by: capt at September 24, 2005 02:51 PM
O.K., I'm putting up a last bit o'coffee before hitting the streets, lucky for me the march goes right by my office, downtown. Easy.
To paraphrase the late Phil Ochs, "Here's to the world, you've torn out the heart of. W. find yourself another planet to be part of."
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at September 24, 2005 02:55 PM
A rally in support of the war tomorrow on CSpan at noon. How many will be there?
Posted by: Jeanne at September 24, 2005 02:59 PM
Another Sad Day
I BLAME BUSH FOR THE DEAD!!!!!
BUSH IS PRO-WAR AND ANTI-TROOPS. I can see rejoicing in the West Wing of the White House. Bush says that war is a NOBLE CAUSE than why are his daughters at home and not in Iraq?
Casualties in Iraq lists that 2,144 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan for the Bush's evil lies and to keep the opium trade alive so the CIA and the Pentagon can have drugs flowing to pay for American terrorism in the USA and throughout the world. Police dogs, taser guns, and tear gas have been unleashed upon Americans for protesting against Bush's policies. Bush and Cheney plan to stay in power forever. America is under martial law and a complete police state. We are no longer a nation with freedoms and rights.
YES, I BLAME BUSH FOR THE DEAD!!!!!
The Bush Family
Bush I was interviewed in December, 1992. "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we Bushes have done to this nation, we would be chased down the streets and lynched."
Barbara Bush was interviewed on Good Morning America on March 18, 2003. "Why should we hear about body bags and deaths? Oh, I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that."
MY FELLOW AMERICANS I ASK YOU ARE BODY BAGS AND DEATHS IRRELEVANT? Gerald
There should be little doubt in anyone's mind where Bush II receives his sensitivity training toward human life. Gerald
David Corn mentions Barbara Bush's words in an article that the underprivileged are making out okay in the wake of Katrina. Every time she babbles Barbara Bush reveals her soulless sensitivity. What can we expect from an emperor whose mother shows lack of nurturing and sensitivity toward human beings.
Here is an example of a Bush II thinking process!!!
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." George W. Bush
The Nazi Family Code
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders, tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." Herman Goering or are these the words of Karl Rove?
The American Family
America is home to rigged elections, a shattered US Constitution, and damned souls.
Posted by: Gerald at September 24, 2005 03:03 PM
Sounds like a good place to do some good ole fashioned recruiting.
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at September 24, 2005 03:05 PM
C-span followig "Anti-War" with Bush's friggin weekly radio lie...how puh-thetic!
Posted by: Hajji at September 24, 2005 03:06 PM
Thanx for the space. I am at # 102 on the charts at www.warisaracket.org and I recommend it to anyone willing. I have seen how little President Bush actually DOES to bring OTHER countries' money
into the Iraq War and I have concluded
that his leadership is hideous. Every day we get poorer, not to mention dead (er ).
Wounded, families wrecked, we foot the bill. So ? So I signed my name at www.warisaracket.org